Bisonguy06 wrote:I'll give you Shiloh, Ryan, Trinity and Oak Grove being a 'problem' if you're a fan of the traditional 'B.' But you don't reinvent the wheel for four schools. Nobody has beef with Our Redeemer's and Williston Trinity right now. Nobody seems to have a beef with passive recruiting when those kids transfer to public schools, either. And literally no one in North Dakota has ever said, "Rugby is proof that we need a three class system." It's not OK for Shiloh Christian to send both its boys and girls to state in the same year, but it's awesome that Parshall and LaMoure did the same thing. Complaints about the 'B' boil down to FOUR PRIVATE SCHOOLS. If you drew up a plan for four schools to play for their own trophy, it would probably be pretty popular. Run with that idea.
We supposedly have this group of big Bs that are ready to join the parochials and move up and form the middle class in a 3 class or hybrid system. Well let's look at the field this year. I'm going to give you seven of the biggest B's in the state, and let's see if they robbed a bunch of small schools from state tournament appearances.
Watford City, Central Cass, Grafton, Beulah, Lisbon, Stanley, and Kindred. They're all big B's. They all play AA football. Guess what else these schools have in common?
None of their boys teams made the state tournament this year
None of their girls volleyball teams made the state tournament this year (fall of 2014)
The Kindred girls basketball team made state and took 2nd place.
This group batted 1 for 21 in state tourney appearances this year.
Let's throw in four more of the biggest B's: Rugby, Carrington, Bottineau, Des Lacs-Burlington. Rugby went 1 for 3 in state tourney appearances with a home run at 'the B.' The other three schools struck out.
11 of the biggest 'B' schools combined to go 2 for 33 in state tournament appearances this year. Two for thirty three! We want to move them up and out of B... why?
Wildcat wrote:Can we please stop talking about the incredible pipe dream that is merging tournaments with South Dakota?
They would never consider this in a million years. They have small issues like this, but they're not about to hand over their state's athletic identity to merge with someone from the north. This will never happen...EVER. It makes what happens in each state more insignificant, and we're already to the point where everyone needs instant gratification (like a state tournament) or they collapse in shame.
This is high school sports...not the NAIA.
That being said, this is a fun topic to read about. Some very valid arguments. The less mainstream the activity (fine arts, etc...) the more big schools will dominate. That's a numbers game...and unless you have an amazing 40-point athlete, track and field is a numbers game. It always has been. I don't need to hear about the exceptions...big schools will always have the leg up on track and field, just like the biggest Class A schools do in swimming.
1) Private schools should be in a class of their own...if it was feasible. It is not, because there are private schools that are small and big, and there just aren't enough of them. I like the point that was made earlier. No one seems to be complaining about Our Redeemer's or Trinity Christian. Private schools are OK to Class B folks, as long as they're not winning. Let's remember that Mike Dwyer (Shiloh), Gregg Grinsteinner (DT), Kyle Card (OG) and the coach that was there for a long time before him...there hasn't been constant turnover there. Their kids know the system from the bottom all the way to the top. All high schools need to do a better job of keeping successful coaches around. That's a big part of it.
2) Some version of a three-class system is inevitable. Why? Because this is the way the country is going. South Dakota has a three-class system in basketball, and a seven-class system in football (four 11-man, 3 9-man classes). It's what's coming. People want more trophies. It's how it is. It costs more now to stay involved than it ever did, and more people want faster results, regardless of whether it's deserved.
3) The point was made earlier about not being satisfied, even with a 3-class system. Carrington is considered a big school...they have 170 kids. There used to be 6-7 schools running around the 260-280 mark. Carrington isn't even close to that, yet they're painted as an evil big school. Tioga by itself is 122 kids and growing. Schools that were once thought so big are getting smaller and small schools are getting bigger. Most of that is synonymous with athletic success. If you chop it down and make all schools inside 150 belong to the bottom class, it will become evil Killdeer (with its 143 students) beating up on all the small schools. If only Killdeer would give everybody else a chance...
Bisonguy06 wrote:Run this simple test: if you brought a basketball fan from far away to Bismarck this weekend, what would he have said about the event? The guy knows nothing about enrollment, tradition, private/public, home-grown talent vs transfers, ect... All he knows is that orange and black won the title. I think he would've said that this was a great event, and I think you'd have a heck of a time trying to convince him otherwise.
I think Bismarck and the Events Center had a whole lot to do with the success of the B. I'm all for locking in the boys B and the Super A in Bismarck. Put hockey in Grand Forks, football in Fargo, and track in Bismarck. Maybe volleyball, wrestling, and B girls basketball can rotate. The Betty Engelstad arena and NDSU's renovated basketball arena (when completed) can join the conversation, depending on the tourney.
My mother, bless her heart, knows nothing about basketball except that it doesn't look right in a dome. Players and spectators will gladly travel to be in the best facility. We can lock some of these tournaments in. Agree?
Sportsrube wrote:There is something I think most of us can agree on - the placement of State Tournaments - Bisonguy06 and ndlionsfan are right on: State Class B Boys and Super A at the Bismarck Events Center, State Class B Girls in Minot at the Dome, Volleyball in Jamestown, Hockey in Grand Forks, Wrestling in Fargo and Track in Bismarck. Then these venues can focus on their respective tournaments and make them better. Unfortunately I think it makes to much sense for the NDHSAA to go for it.
Sportsrube wrote:I hope that change is for real. Fargo and GF do not have very good facilities for hosting BB tournaments.
justplayalready wrote:I did check the NDHSAA approved sites page...Am I correct that Fargo and GF have been removed as Boys B sites until Fargo in 20-21??? This change recently happened???
http://www.ndhsaa.com/calendar/tourname ... s/approved
heimer wrote:
Rugby is not Milnor. New England was Milnor.
justplayalready wrote:what did we use to define the "big B's"...what % of the total B's do the bigs make up???
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