by heimer » Mon Mar 25, 2013 1:05 pm
Awesome, a chance to do some real writing for a change. Don't blame me, in true website fashion, you're the ones piling on the questions.
First, Playin, you're absolutely right. I should have realized this before, and I'm sorry. I should have been honest about my complete lack of interest in following any debate rules you set forward. So, I'll just say that I have absolutely no interest in following any debate rules you set forward. I care less about your idea of a constructive debate than I care about, well, almost anything else, really. Every time one person gets to dictate how a debate is going to work for the other person, no one wins.
Second, Balla, you're a funny guy with your state championships and such. If I recall, the WDA didn't win a game on Saturday this year, and no amount of WDA whistles can justify some of your first-round wins this year. The EDC, being the best tournament in all of ND basketball (reference the two-top-ranked teams being upset in this year's semifinals) helped Bismarck out tremendously. Century's win over RR was legit, but RR then smacked St. Mary's, the WDA's highest-ranked team, on Saturday. Singling out title games is like pointing at one out of every 50 golf shots and saying, "Wow, that guy's good." Meanwhile, he's in the clubhouse with a 95 and some kid from the east is headed to the Nike tour.
Okay, now on to some dialogue with cometdad, who appears to have an open mind, uncorrupted by the Kool-Aid of "Koom-bye-yah."
Cometdad, unlike what you may have heard by some 68-year-old administrator who remembers showing up on gameday by tying his horse to a hitching post outside the gym, the current two-class system of basketball is not "what we've always had, and it's always worked great."
(Apology #1--Sorry Gobison, didn't mean to steal the words from you and put in the mouth of an administrator. I should have waited till you got a chance to say it on your own.)
(Apology #2--The reference to the hitching post is, in no way, shape, or form, a shot at the kind of towns involved. Even Fargo and Bismarck had hitching posts at one time. It is, in every way, a shot at the people making decisions currently, and using out-of-date time frames to shape how we do things in 2013.)
Back to you, cometdad.
After a three-class system came to an end in the early 1960's, North Dakota developed a two-class sytem, but it had three (count 'em, three) ("3" for you Playin, in case your rules for debate are broken by using words for numbers) Class "A" conferences. There was the WDA, the EDC, and this wonderful league called the "North Star".
The North Star would be analogous to today's mid-major conference in NCAA basketball (much like the Summit League, the Big Sky, etc, etc.) The teams in the North Star were all the small As of the period (MINOT RYAN, Devils Lake, Bottineau, Belcourt, Grafton, Rugby, Carrington, VC, I think Cavalier was in there for a while, anyone can feel free to fill in the rest). They played each other in the regular season, the had a tournament for two spots in the A state tournament, combined with three WDA and three EDC teams.
After the 1990-91 season, the North Star collapsed as several of the teams had enrollments that fell below the 325 threshhold, doing two things:
A) leaving the smallest As (VC, Devils Lake, Belcourt, heck even Grafton was in rough shape) in a competitive disadvantage against the biggest schools in the state
B) leaving the traditional B teams to inherit big schools into their structure.
Now, here are some facts that are NOT in dispute:
1. The current system that every administrator says has "worked forever" has been around for 22 years, not forever.
2. Every other sport but basketball has undergone fundamental change since the loss of the North Star.
a) Football to four classes
b) volleyball realignment
c) wrestling expanding its number of qualifiers, adding state duals, adding weight classes
d) any qualifying sport with altered qualification standards
Only basketball has been the "sacred cow".
The Super 2 is a re-invention of the North Star. In the Super 2:
Class A expands from all above 325 to top 32 enrollments in ND
The top 16 enrollments play in a top division
The next 16 enrollments play in their own division
All schools without geographically-defined boundaries are in the smaller division of A. They may choose to opt up
Each division split into east and west regions.
Each region qualifies two teams for state.
In the end, four spots held for the "mid-majors", four for the top teams. They play one tournament, but the teams are split into their own halves of the bracket. Thus, Thursday is the semi-finals of each division, Friday is the finals for each division, meaning each division has a state champion, and then Saturday, we get four straight "David and Goliath" matchups we all seem to love.
This is legal as defined by the clause of the NDHSAA constitutions that states, "The enrollment used for separating divisions will be 325 as long as a two-division system is used." This system is three divisions, but two classes.
All the Big Bs move out, all the parochials move out. Better state tournament, more opportunities for smaller schools in all levels of tournament play, not just the "koom-bye-yah", and much more parity for competition during the regular season.
I have never had an administrator tell me they don't like this. Unfortunately, the big B's have told the small Bs that, should they vote for this plan, they will hold them hostage at the ticket booth by refusing to play them in the regular season. (By the way Bisonguy, this is FACT. One school in District 2 told another school this, and I have it right from the super's mouth. You want the schools, PM me.)
In this way, TV only covers three tournaments, which they want, B is refreshed for both the boys and girls and at all levels pf tournament play, and A gets more competition. After all, who at the B level doesn't slam A by saying how easy it is to qualify for state since there are only 20 teams and eight go. Well, now 8 of 32 would go.
(By the way, that argument about ease of qualification is bogus. Two of the top three ranked teams in the state had to win qualifiers in the EDC this year. It is not easy to win on Friday or Saturday of the EDC or WDA. But again, the information patrol is generaled by our B friends who probably haven't seen an EDC or WDA game in their life.)
This plan will never see the light of day, but since you were asking, cometdad, I thought I'd lay it out for you.
By the way Bisonguy, and Hinsa, and all the other B apologists out there, over this season, I've had a chance to compile a different list. I have spent all of my driving hours trying to narrow down the top five criteria for an athletic program that would be considered to be successful over the long term. My effort was to rank the components of a program in such a way that, over the long term (the span of time I used was 10 years), the elements in that program would tell the story of who is more successful when set in a direct comparison to other districts.
In other words, over the long term, if I wanted to rank, say, Grafton against MPCG, my list of five criteria would tell the story, based on the idea that one of the criteria higher on the list would mean more than one lower on the list. I went so far as to force a list that would not allow you to compensate for a deficient item high on the list with more of one lower on the list (example, If my item number 1 is better, consistently, than your #1, your number 2 being better would not compensate).
Believe it or not, enrollment was not my number one. I say this because I always get labelled as the guy who just believes numbers conquer all. I believe the numbers we have are being classed the wrong way, but I don't believe enrollment is everthing.
My list of the five goes like this (from bottom to top), and, after you get done bashing me for being an idiot, then tearing the Super 2 apart because what we have is good enough, I'd actually enjoy some comment on this:
#5--Facilities available. This does not just include the arena at the school. If you've been to the Choice Fitness center in GF, you find regulation indoor tennis courts. Red River has won 14 straight tennis titles. I don't by the idea that kids play better in nicer gyms because they have more pride. I've seen kids work their bottoms off to defend the pride of a rathole. So, it's the lowest criteria on my list. But, when you see the investments made from town to town on various facilities, it does make a difference.
#4--Coaching. The ability to get more out of kids, the ability to teach the game, means more than any facilities available. But coaches are not the sole item in a system either.
#3--Enrollment. Coaches can overcome deficiencies in overall enrollment, but I don't think, in this day and age, they can do it consistently over the long-term. Over the long-term, enrollment advantages will lead to more wins.
#2--Type of kid enrolled. This one is interesting. If school A has more kids, but school B has kids more interested in winning, coaching can conquer all. Also, the success of smaller parochial schools shows us that the type of kid matters way more than the overall enrollment.
And, the number one criteria.........
#1--Schools/Districts commitment to winning. Schools who believe winning is important will influence their kids enrolled to take the game seriously, will inspire coaches to be successful, and convince the community of the need for facilities. Basically, #1 addresses the level of all but enrollment, as enrollment is kind of out of a schools control.
So, particularly you, Bisonguy, understand that I spent a ton of hours working on this, and stayed away from the classification game for an entire year. I wanted to improve my understanding of the landscape first, and I believe I have. But I'm still completely convinced that a Super 2 is better than a three, and better what we have now, and that we're overdue for change. At least you know that enrollment isn't my chief concern. (And, based on what you know about me, I think you know what I'm referring to.)
God is bigger than football.