Indians Alumni wrote:They can also provide different programs, work with high school kids to promote higher education, that would be really big of UND. I am not saying throw money at the situation, money without direction is useless! They need to work with the Tribes for a better solution than throwing money!
EDC wrote:Why does NDSU get a free pass on this issue? Just put the sioux name aside for a minute because I have wondered about this. All I hear about is how much more UND should be doing for Indian studies and Indian relationships etc. Is NDSU (and othe North Dakota colleges and universities) being held to the same standards?
flatlander wrote:EDC wrote:Why does NDSU get a free pass on this issue? Just put the sioux name aside for a minute because I have wondered about this. All I hear about is how much more UND should be doing for Indian studies and Indian relationships etc. Is NDSU (and othe North Dakota colleges and universities) being held to the same standards?
I'm not sure I follow you. I know A lot of UND folks are acting like the Indian programs are some sort of terrible burden that UND is forced to bear on account of the nickname, but that's not the case. You hear so much about UND's Indian programs for two reasons. First, UND has gottens MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars in state and federal money for their Indian programs (NDSU has not). Second, everytime the nickname issue comes up, UND parades these programs about to gain sympathy and support (obviously NDSU doesn't need or want to do that).
Believe me if UND no longer wants their Indian programs, every other university within a 1000 miles would gladly take them off of their hands (along with the prestige and the millions of dollars of funding they bring).
Indians Alumni wrote:I have visited UND, on many occasions. On one occasion, the use of the nickname "Savage Indians" was used for one of the Intramural hockey teams. Some students decided to vandilize the Tipi that was out side the Native American Center, beer cans where scattered all around the inside. The statue out front was vandalized on occasion. Some students where harrassed. So tell me how again, how it is such a beautiful place. Walk a mile in anothers shoes before passing judgement.
Being immortalized as a mascot was not what my ancestors had in mind when they fought and where murdered for our freedom. Allowing this mascot and nickname to go on is a mockery to what my anciestors fought for!
nativegolfer wrote:flatlander wrote:EDC wrote:Why does NDSU get a free pass on this issue? Just put the sioux name aside for a minute because I have wondered about this. All I hear about is how much more UND should be doing for Indian studies and Indian relationships etc. Is NDSU (and othe North Dakota colleges and universities) being held to the same standards?
I'm not sure I follow you. I know A lot of UND folks are acting like the Indian programs are some sort of terrible burden that UND is forced to bear on account of the nickname, but that's not the case. You hear so much about UND's Indian programs for two reasons. First, UND has gottens MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars in state and federal money for their Indian programs (NDSU has not). Second, everytime the nickname issue comes up, UND parades these programs about to gain sympathy and support (obviously NDSU doesn't need or want to do that).
Believe me if UND no longer wants their Indian programs, every other university within a 1000 miles would gladly take them off of their hands (along with the prestige and the millions of dollars of funding they bring).
EDC wrote:nativegolfer wrote:flatlander wrote:EDC wrote:Why does NDSU get a free pass on this issue? Just put the sioux name aside for a minute because I have wondered about this. All I hear about is how much more UND should be doing for Indian studies and Indian relationships etc. Is NDSU (and othe North Dakota colleges and universities) being held to the same standards?
I'm not sure I follow you. I know A lot of UND folks are acting like the Indian programs are some sort of terrible burden that UND is forced to bear on account of the nickname, but that's not the case. You hear so much about UND's Indian programs for two reasons. First, UND has gottens MILLIONS and MILLIONS of dollars in state and federal money for their Indian programs (NDSU has not). Second, everytime the nickname issue comes up, UND parades these programs about to gain sympathy and support (obviously NDSU doesn't need or want to do that).
Believe me if UND no longer wants their Indian programs, every other university within a 1000 miles would gladly take them off of their hands (along with the prestige and the millions of dollars of funding they bring).
Excellent point flatlander. Currently, NDSU is working with the tribal colleges/HS on the rez's with a program funded by ND Epscor. Once a month, engineering faculty from NDSU travel to HS's on the rezs and conduct what we call Sunday Science Academies with help from teachers from the colleges and HS's. I have worked with the tribal college and FWHS for almost 20 years and UND has never done anything in this capacity. In fact, they were offered this program and didn't want to do it so NDSU took the reigns.[/quote]
Thanks for the info.
Nativegolfer, why on earth would UND not follow up on this program? What did UND say when asked? What other (are there?) programs are there that UND actually goes to the reservations?
Flatlander - Is it true that the net cost to UND for all these Indian programs is zero or maybe even puts money in its pockets? That too would be amazing to me - didn't know that!
EDC wrote:Flatlander - Is it true that the net cost to UND for all these Indian programs is zero or maybe even puts money in its pockets? That too would be amazing to me - didn't know that!
Ballin wrote:Just because a few "immature college students" have done things on campus to insult a few people, doesn't mean UND is discriminating against the Native American race. Having an institution like UND represent you or your tribe as their mascot should be thought of as an honor. I agree with a few comments made earlier. If some people think UND is wrong for having the Fighting Sioux nickname, then why not make a big deal about the ND Fighting Irish, the Montreal Canadiens, the Washington Redskins, the Florida Seminoles, the Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves, etc. If they really want to cause an uproar why not oppose Pittsburgh's nickname. They could just as well stick up for the Penguins too!
I just think having UND spend a million dollars to replace logos in their facilities is just ridiculous! Its still not going to change anything, you will still have a select few who would go to the end of the Earth to insult others.
project-pat wrote:Ballin wrote:Just because a few "immature college students" have done things on campus to insult a few people, doesn't mean UND is discriminating against the Native American race. Having an institution like UND represent you or your tribe as their mascot should be thought of as an honor. I agree with a few comments made earlier. If some people think UND is wrong for having the Fighting Sioux nickname, then why not make a big deal about the ND Fighting Irish, the Montreal Canadiens, the Washington Redskins, the Florida Seminoles, the Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves, etc. If they really want to cause an uproar why not oppose Pittsburgh's nickname. They could just as well stick up for the Penguins too!
I just think having UND spend a million dollars to replace logos in their facilities is just ridiculous! Its still not going to change anything, you will still have a select few who would go to the end of the Earth to insult others.
The Atlanta Braves, Washington Redskins, and Cleveland Indians are allowed to keep their nickname because they are privately owned organizations, which I disagree with. If a group of people is offended by something, no matter the case, something should be done to change it. Everybody on this earth is human and they should not have to put up with discrimination of any kind. You can not honestly sit here and say that if a Native American school had a nickname that offended white people, that you wouldn't try to do something to stop it. If Native Americans are offended by the UND nickname, then change it. It is just a nickname after all, people will get over it.
OldSchool wrote:project-pat wrote:Ballin wrote:Just because a few "immature college students" have done things on campus to insult a few people, doesn't mean UND is discriminating against the Native American race. Having an institution like UND represent you or your tribe as their mascot should be thought of as an honor. I agree with a few comments made earlier. If some people think UND is wrong for having the Fighting Sioux nickname, then why not make a big deal about the ND Fighting Irish, the Montreal Canadiens, the Washington Redskins, the Florida Seminoles, the Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves, etc. If they really want to cause an uproar why not oppose Pittsburgh's nickname. They could just as well stick up for the Penguins too!
I just think having UND spend a million dollars to replace logos in their facilities is just ridiculous! Its still not going to change anything, you will still have a select few who would go to the end of the Earth to insult others.
The Atlanta Braves, Washington Redskins, and Cleveland Indians are allowed to keep their nickname because they are privately owned organizations, which I disagree with. If a group of people is offended by something, no matter the case, something should be done to change it. Everybody on this earth is human and they should not have to put up with discrimination of any kind. You can not honestly sit here and say that if a Native American school had a nickname that offended white people, that you wouldn't try to do something to stop it. If Native Americans are offended by the UND nickname, then change it. It is just a nickname after all, people will get over it.
Which is exactly what white people have done. You don't see white people picketing and crying about the Canadiens, or the Fighting Irish. We have done just that gotten over it and taken pride in it. Aren't there bigger issues to worry about on the reservations than a nickname that is used in the highest of regards.
OldSchool wrote:project-pat wrote:Ballin wrote:Just because a few "immature college students" have done things on campus to insult a few people, doesn't mean UND is discriminating against the Native American race. Having an institution like UND represent you or your tribe as their mascot should be thought of as an honor. I agree with a few comments made earlier. If some people think UND is wrong for having the Fighting Sioux nickname, then why not make a big deal about the ND Fighting Irish, the Montreal Canadiens, the Washington Redskins, the Florida Seminoles, the Cleveland Indians, the Atlanta Braves, etc. If they really want to cause an uproar why not oppose Pittsburgh's nickname. They could just as well stick up for the Penguins too!
I just think having UND spend a million dollars to replace logos in their facilities is just ridiculous! Its still not going to change anything, you will still have a select few who would go to the end of the Earth to insult others.
The Atlanta Braves, Washington Redskins, and Cleveland Indians are allowed to keep their nickname because they are privately owned organizations, which I disagree with. If a group of people is offended by something, no matter the case, something should be done to change it. Everybody on this earth is human and they should not have to put up with discrimination of any kind. You can not honestly sit here and say that if a Native American school had a nickname that offended white people, that you wouldn't try to do something to stop it. If Native Americans are offended by the UND nickname, then change it. It is just a nickname after all, people will get over it.
Which is exactly what white people have done. You don't see white people picketing and crying about the Canadiens, or the Fighting Irish. We have done just that gotten over it and taken pride in it. Aren't there bigger issues to worry about on the reservations than a nickname that is used in the highest of regards.
thundercat 99 wrote:Also, this issue could distance Native Americans from others in the student population, with Native Americans getting a lot of the blame for it. I'm not blaming Native Americans myself, but people close to UND will react to the name change and want to place the blame on someone.
Mr. Knowitall wrote:thundercat 99 wrote:Also, this issue could distance Native Americans from others in the student population, with Native Americans getting a lot of the blame for it. I'm not blaming Native Americans myself, but people close to UND will react to the name change and want to place the blame on someone.
I totally agree with this statement. I think the nickname just creates an unnecessary avenue for racism among the NA students and the NA people associated with the university.
project-pat wrote:While typing a paper on the issue of offensive mascots....I stumbled across a quote from Hank Aaron....
"Would we think of calling teams names such as the "Chicago Caucasians," the "Buffalo Blacks," or the "San Diego Jews?" Could you imagine people mocking African Americans in black face at a game? Yet go to a game where there is a team with an Indian name and you will see fans with war paint on their faces. Is this not the equivalent to black face? Although the thought of changing tradition is often painful, the sting of racism is always painful to its victims."
so true....
Hinsa wrote:Ya know, something just occurred to me about this debate: The supporters of the Fighting Sioux name are passionate about not letting go of the name because they have a fierce pride in that name.
What better reason for keeping the name? My hope for the Sioux tribes is that they would realize just how passionate the supporters are about that name and understand the pride that the supporters take in that name. Then I would hope the tribes could take pride in the fact that supporters of the name - natives and whites alike - have such a fierce loyalty to the name of their tribe.
Am I making sense? Isn't the support of the name a sign of how prideful people are of the Sioux name and what it represents?
To me the Sioux name represents a people with a proud heritage with rich traditions. by supporting the Fighting Sioux name, aren't the supporters honoring the Sioux people by wanting to keep that name as part of a great institution of higher learning?
I work in Mobridge, SD a couple of weeks every summer and have gotten to know some of the Standing Rock tribe members. They are very, very proud of those in their tribe that have gone on to further their education at a college or university. I firmly believe that these people I have gotten to know are proud that a university has chosen their tribal name as a symbol of the high goals of higher education that UND strives for.
I could be all wet in this belief. Please tell me what you think.
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