3 class system

[maddog1971]

I don't get the no Privates in the middle class... The whole reason this is even a thing and will get support is to get the private schools out of Class B. Otherwise forget about it.

Also the only way to change the amount of numbers of kids going out for basketball is to stop the Coop's. Break the coops up and you will have alot more kids going out for basketball.
Now I am not saying that will make for better basketball but if numbers are what we are trying to address.... don't worry about how good the teams are let everyone play and have fun.......
People are sick of seeing Grafton, LEM, Central Cass, Kindred, Thompson, Beulah, Shiloh, Oak Grove, Minot Ryan,Rubgy, Dickinson Trinity, Linton...

So let's really change the system... I will vote for it but you need to get a couple schools out of Class A that will get killed every year.

[packers21]

Get it passed however it needs to get passed and then tweet every two years to try and improve it.

packers21 said it above that he'd like to see no privates in the middle class, does that mean AA or B? I was fine with going by a hard enrollment number and allowing opt-ups. There would be so much hatred towards OG, Shiloh, DT, and BR if they stayed in B.

BTW, is there anything to be said about opt-ups in the proposal?

I meant lowest class-Privates have to be middle class or higher. I will edit.

[WalkingStick]

Get it passed however it needs to get passed and then tweet every two years to try and improve it.

packers21 said it above that he'd like to see no privates in the middle class, does that mean AA or B? I was fine with going by a hard enrollment number and allowing opt-ups. There would be so much hatred towards OG, Shiloh, DT, and BR if they stayed in B.

BTW, is there anything to be said about opt-ups in the proposal?

I meant lowest class-Privates have to be middle class or higher. I will edit.

Only one I’m fine with staying B is Williston Trinity…I can understand ORCS for now.

Is this 3 class system just for basketball purposes?? NDHSAA used to tie VB into it as well…

[Attack the Process]

The only problem with this is that I can see the private schools filing a lawsuit. If that were to happen, it would drain the NDHSAA. Don't know if they can fight it and win, or if they would even want to fight it.

[Sportsrube]

The only problem with this is that I can see the private schools filing a lawsuit. If that were to happen, it would drain the NDHSAA. Don't know if they can fight it and win, or if they would even want to fight it.

I hope this passes because it will be better than what we have now. It can always be tweaked (like the football plan is constantly tweaked). I do agree with others about the state tournament issues though. Combining girls and boys at the same site works for Class A now, it should work for the middle and lower class as well. As for the lawsuit issue, I say let the Privates file it. Other states have it in their bylaws that no privates can be in the lowest class so I don't see why ND couldn't do it.

[WalkingStick]

The only problem with this is that I can see the private schools filing a lawsuit. If that were to happen, it would drain the NDHSAA. Don't know if they can fight it and win, or if they would even want to fight it.

I hope this passes because it will be better than what we have now. It can always be tweaked (like the football plan is constantly tweaked). I do agree with others about the state tournament issues though. Combining girls and boys at the same site works for Class A now, it should work for the middle and lower class as well. As for the lawsuit issue, I say let the Privates file it. Other states have it in their bylaws that no privates can be in the lowest class so I don't see why ND couldn't do it.

They have it in football in ND and no issues occurred when that happened.

I’m pro-private school (what they stand for and their education) but I think something close to this does need to happen soon…this plan may have too large of a middle class but again some tweaks to this plan and I think it will benefit the state. Opens up some fun shootout and non-region game ideas, in my eyes.

[maddog1971]

I am all for Private schools as well..... If you want to send your kid to a private.. "God Bless You"

I had a great conversation with a couple Grover parents... And the one thing I hear all the time is that they send their kid to Oak Grove is for the environment, the morals and the education. They feel it is a safer, better environment for their kids to learn and grow. So my question is why do you care then what class they play in for sports?

But I am far from in favor for them playing in class B. No Private should play in B....The only reason I see this ever being a possibility is for this reason alone. So they have to play someone... so i agree... take the big B's and the Little A's and lets play some basketball.... BUT NO MINTO/ MIDWAY.... That is stupid.

[Flip]

I am all for Private schools as well..... If you want to send your kid to a private.. "God Bless You"

I had a great conversation with a couple Grover parents... And the one thing I hear all the time is that they send their kid to Oak Grove is for the environment, the morals and the education. They feel it is a safer, better environment for their kids to learn and grow. So my question is why do you care then what class they play in for sports?

But I am far from in favor for them playing in class B. No Private should play in B....The only reason I see this ever being a possibility is for this reason alone. So they have to play someone... so i agree... take the big B's and the Little A's and lets play some basketball.... BUT NO MINTO/ MIDWAY.... That is stupid.

Because they want to see their kids succeed. It isn't complicated.

[maddog1971]

I am all for Private schools as well..... If you want to send your kid to a private.. "God Bless You"

I had a great conversation with a couple Grover parents... And the one thing I hear all the time is that they send their kid to Oak Grove is for the environment, the morals and the education. They feel it is a safer, better environment for their kids to learn and grow. So my question is why do you care then what class they play in for sports?

But I am far from in favor for them playing in class B. No Private should play in B....The only reason I see this ever being a possibility is for this reason alone. So they have to play someone... so i agree... take the big B's and the Little A's and lets play some basketball.... BUT NO MINTO/ MIDWAY.... That is stupid.

Because they want to see their kids succeed. It isn't complicated.

What would Jesus do?

[WalkingStick]

I am all for Private schools as well..... If you want to send your kid to a private.. "God Bless You"

I had a great conversation with a couple Grover parents... And the one thing I hear all the time is that they send their kid to Oak Grove is for the environment, the morals and the education. They feel it is a safer, better environment for their kids to learn and grow. So my question is why do you care then what class they play in for sports?

But I am far from in favor for them playing in class B. No Private should play in B....The only reason I see this ever being a possibility is for this reason alone. So they have to play someone... so i agree... take the big B's and the Little A's and lets play some basketball.... BUT NO MINTO/ MIDWAY.... That is stupid.

Because they want to see their kids succeed. It isn't complicated.

What would Jesus do?

No need to bring that question into the conversation.

I honestly don't think there would be much blow back if a system similar to football was used to determine the 3 classes. I just looked into how this 3 class proposal used enrollment and actually don't like it that much now.

[Bison-Vikes #1]

Believe in order for the 3-class proposal to pass, need to change from boy's A & B and girls' A & B playing on same weekend. Should be set up like existing A is currently playing with boys & girls on same weekend in same location. With that said, there are some logistical questions and would like to hear some input.

1. In order to finish the tournament in 3-days, need to have 2 gyms. How/where in Minot and Bismarck would that work?
2. A solution to the 2 gym problem would be to start the state tournament on Wednesday. 1 set of quarterfinals would be Wednesday, the 2nd set of quarterfinals would be Thursday. All could be televised increasing tv revenue. Now, in order to play out all the games a 2nd gym would still be needed for the consolation bracket. However all games in championship bracket could be televised from the main venue on Friday. Also, the 2 championship games on Saturday could be televised.
3. No 2nd gym would be needed at all if the tournament started on Wednesday and the consolation bracket was eliminated. All games could be played in the main venue. No 5th - 8th place games. This would help with hotel rooms as well as some fans would be leaving which would make room for other fans coming later to watch their teams in championship bracket.

Big question, how many schools/fans would oppose having the state tournament starting on a Wednesday?

[Flip]

Believe in order for the 3-class proposal to pass, need to change from boy's A & B and girls' A & B playing on same weekend.

I really hope you're wrong. I'd hate for someone to think, "I like the way everything is set up, the enrollment cutoffs, the district/regions, but I'm voting 'no' because I don't like the state tournament setup."

I actually think if someone says they're voting "no" because of just the state tournament setup, they don't want 3 classes and they're using that as an excuse.

[Bison-Vikes #1]

I really hope you're wrong. I'd hate for someone to think, "I like the way everything is set up, the enrollment cutoffs, the district/regions, but I'm voting 'no' because I don't like the state tournament setup."

I actually think if someone says they're voting "no" because of just the state tournament setup, they don't want 3 classes and they're using that as an excuse.

Good point and hope you're right.

[RiverMiner99]

I did not scroll through this entire thread so I apologize if this has already been answered. Does anyone know the history in making the decision to move from a 3 class system (A, B, & C) to a 2 class system 60ish years ago?

[packers21]

I did not scroll through this entire thread so I apologize if this has already been answered. Does anyone know the history in making the decision to move from a 3 class system (A, B, & C) to a 2 class system 60ish years ago?

Joe might

[RiverMiner99]

I did not scroll through this entire thread so I apologize if this has already been answered. Does anyone know the history in making the decision to move from a 3 class system (A, B, & C) to a 2 class system 60ish years ago?

Joe might

Interested to hear from Joe. Just curious as to why back then they felt a 2 class system was needed. I would think the number of teams playing basketball back then was more than we have now.

[classB4ever]

Average Yearly State Results for past 22 years:
1st Place - Big/Private 67% - Central Cass
2nd Place - Big/Private 59% - Shiloh
3rd Place - Big/Private vs. Small 50-50 - Thompson
4th Place - Small 58% - Beulah
5th Place - Big/Private 59% - DLB
6th Place - Big/Private vs. Small 50-50 - Powers Lake
7th Place - Small 63% - Warwick
8th Place - Small 58% - MPB

[classB4ever]

I did not scroll through this entire thread so I apologize if this has already been answered. Does anyone know the history in making the decision to move from a 3 class system (A, B, & C) to a 2 class system 60ish years ago?

I have posted the history of the consolidated league, 2 class, 3 class, etc. somewhere on NDpreps but cannot find it. If I remember correctly, when the consolidated league joined NDHSAA around 1957, HSAA had promised they would not change from 3 classes to 2 classes unless the 3 class teams voted for it. In 1963, they had a vote, but rather than allowing the 3 class schools to vote independently, they allowed all schools to vote, basically eliminating the 3 class school's votes due to overwhelming numbers of other schools. Switched to 2 class in 1964 I believe. If I remember correctly, many small schools were not happy.

[RiverMiner99]

I did not scroll through this entire thread so I apologize if this has already been answered. Does anyone know the history in making the decision to move from a 3 class system (A, B, & C) to a 2 class system 60ish years ago?

I have posted the history of the consolidated league, 2 class, 3 class, etc. somewhere on NDpreps but cannot find it. If I remember correctly, when the consolidated league joined NDHSAA around 1957, HSAA had promised they would not change from 3 classes to 2 classes unless the 3 class teams voted for it. In 1963, they had a vote, but rather than allowing the 3 class schools to vote independently, they allowed all schools to vote, basically eliminating the 3 class school's votes due to overwhelming numbers of other schools. Switched to 2 class in 1964 I believe. If I remember correctly, many small schools were not happy.

Thanks for this. Very interesting. I would love to see the votes by school for this. I was trying to figure out a reason to switch from 3 classes to 2 and the only thing I could think of was travel expenses.

[WalkingStick]

I did not scroll through this entire thread so I apologize if this has already been answered. Does anyone know the history in making the decision to move from a 3 class system (A, B, & C) to a 2 class system 60ish years ago?

I have posted the history of the consolidated league, 2 class, 3 class, etc. somewhere on NDpreps but cannot find it. If I remember correctly, when the consolidated league joined NDHSAA around 1957, HSAA had promised they would not change from 3 classes to 2 classes unless the 3 class teams voted for it. In 1963, they had a vote, but rather than allowing the 3 class schools to vote independently, they allowed all schools to vote, basically eliminating the 3 class school's votes due to overwhelming numbers of other schools. Switched to 2 class in 1964 I believe. If I remember correctly, many small schools were not happy.

The process began in 1961-1962 school year when several Class C teams requested access to move up to Class B...NDHSAA yearbooks are a wonderful tool

[classB4ever]

I did not scroll through this entire thread so I apologize if this has already been answered. Does anyone know the history in making the decision to move from a 3 class system (A, B, & C) to a 2 class system 60ish years ago?

I have posted the history of the consolidated league, 2 class, 3 class, etc. somewhere on NDpreps but cannot find it. If I remember correctly, when the consolidated league joined NDHSAA around 1957, HSAA had promised they would not change from 3 classes to 2 classes unless the 3 class teams voted for it. In 1963, they had a vote, but rather than allowing the 3 class schools to vote independently, they allowed all schools to vote, basically eliminating the 3 class school's votes due to overwhelming numbers of other schools. Switched to 2 class in 1964 I believe. If I remember correctly, many small schools were not happy.

The process began in 1961-1962 school year when several Class C teams requested access to move up to Class B...NDHSAA yearbooks are a wonderful tool

Yes they are. However in this instance, only one side of the story will be told.

[WalkingStick]

I did not scroll through this entire thread so I apologize if this has already been answered. Does anyone know the history in making the decision to move from a 3 class system (A, B, & C) to a 2 class system 60ish years ago?

I have posted the history of the consolidated league, 2 class, 3 class, etc. somewhere on NDpreps but cannot find it. If I remember correctly, when the consolidated league joined NDHSAA around 1957, HSAA had promised they would not change from 3 classes to 2 classes unless the 3 class teams voted for it. In 1963, they had a vote, but rather than allowing the 3 class schools to vote independently, they allowed all schools to vote, basically eliminating the 3 class school's votes due to overwhelming numbers of other schools. Switched to 2 class in 1964 I believe. If I remember correctly, many small schools were not happy.

The process began in 1961-1962 school year when several Class C teams requested access to move up to Class B...NDHSAA yearbooks are a wonderful tool

Yes they are. However in this instance, only one side of the story will be told.

Probably true...way before my time so I only know what can easily be researched and found

[Bisonguy06]

Average Yearly State Results for past 22 years:
1st Place - Big/Private 67% - Central Cass
2nd Place - Big/Private 59% - Shiloh
3rd Place - Big/Private vs. Small 50-50 - Thompson
4th Place - Small 58% - Beulah
5th Place - Big/Private 59% - DLB
6th Place - Big/Private vs. Small 50-50 - Powers Lake
7th Place - Small 63% - Warwick
8th Place - Small 58% - MPB

Spoiler alert: The largest schools in the new AA/A/B are going to outperform the smaller schools in most years.

[UNDSiouxfan]

Just a quick comment on here..

Only one night into the class B girls Regionals, and it was a joy to watch meaningful 3rd place games. Previously, the 3rd place game in Regionals has been absolutely worthless with nothing to play for.

This will definitely make for a better state tournament, as some regions are stronger than others. The upcoming qualifier games in both the A division and B division are going to be exciting to watch.

In the A Boys division, a state tournament with DL-Grafton-4 Winds will be much more exciting to watch as these 3 teams have been in the top 5 all year along with Kindred. If any of these 4 teams don't end up in the semis in state, I would consider it a major upset.

Thanks NDHSAA, you definitely got this issue right!

[maddog1971]

Just a quick comment on here..

Only one night into the class B girls Regionals, and it was a joy to watch meaningful 3rd place games. Previously, the 3rd place game in Regionals has been absolutely worthless with nothing to play for.

This will definitely make for a better state tournament, as some regions are stronger than others. The upcoming qualifier games in both the A division and B division are going to be exciting to watch.

In the A Boys division, a state tournament with DL-Grafton-4 Winds will be much more exciting to watch as these 3 teams have been in the top 5 all year along with Kindred. If any of these 4 teams don't end up in the semis in state, I would consider it a major upset.

Thanks NDHSAA, you definitely got this issue right!

I agree with you about the 3 class system. Some exciting games in the tournament. BUT... It looks like almost all of the same old names in the state tournament again. Basically just recycling the old names just more of them per year.