SoDak 16

[Flip]

The part about Four Winds was the ignorant part.

[defensewinsgames]

Way back in my day.....

We had an all-state basketball and football player who suddenly began receiving letters from a private school offering him an "academic scholarship" to attend their school. He had a GPA below 2.9 and scored lower than a 21 on his ACT....not quite the academic performance that warrants a scholarship so it is quite possible it was him being recruited for his athletic ability. I only mention this because yes some private schools do recruit...all of them all of the time...no...but some of them some of the time...yes.

[senditin]

If a kid turns 19, that student is no longer eligible for competion per NDHSAA rules and they keep close track of it. FWM has never broken that rule but thanks to people like you the idea is still out there. Ironically, a NA school lost a state championship to a team with a player who wasnt in compliance with the age rule. See Youtube, Elbowwoods BB.

[ND Basketball Fan]

If a kid turns 19, that student is no longer eligible for competion per NDHSAA rules and they keep close track of it. FWM has never broken that rule but thanks to people like you the idea is still out there. Ironically, a NA school lost a state championship to a team with a player who wasnt in compliance with the age rule. See Youtube, Elbowwoods BB.

Thank you for clarifying. I agree, my post was ignorant as I didn't have facts to back what I was saying. My apologies and I will delete the post (if possible).

[sportsnut5]

Age 19 student-athletes are eligible, once a student turns 20, they are no longer eligible.

[urserious]

If a kid turns 19, that student is no longer eligible for competion per NDHSAA rules and they keep close track of it. FWM has never broken that rule but thanks to people like you the idea is still out there. Ironically, a NA school lost a state championship to a team with a player who wasnt in compliance with the age rule. See Youtube, Elbowwoods BB.

Took way to long to give Elbowwoods that cham over 60 years. I think that age of competition is 20 and it has happened in the past at FW.

[senditin]

Thanks for correcting my mistake, it's 20. Ya that happened way back in the 80's.

[woodchuck10]

FW was suspended from continuing postseason play (2009) and from competition in postseason (2010), for an ineligible player(too many semesters) there was rumors of a player on that team that was 20 but they weren’t suspended for that player. So it’s not entirely ignorant. Especially considering it’s the same coach and AD that received the suspension.

[GOPACKGO!!!]

I think it would work but first you need to get to three classes because i still think it would take years before we would get third class in basketball and volleyball. If that happened i believe number of schools would just have hard time fielding a team because number of the small schools kids would just not care if they played that sport or not. I have been watching now for number years do realize there at least number of smaller schools that haven't even played in regional semifinal in over 10 years and some now approaching 20 years in basketball and Volleyball. This is what has happened in past 30 years we have a group of elite larger schools that continually are ones that play at regional and state level and group smaller schools that just put a team together each year but no real expectations are expected because they know that they will never be able to compete against these larger schools. Once this attitude happens we have failed system and fixing may take years or generation even if we address the issues . The funny thing here in North Dakota when it comes to football we have plan every two years to address this competitive issues for the various size schools The basketball and volleyball we have not addressed this issue in more than 40 years and even now its just about impossible to have discussion about this with activities association. Under the present conditions we have i don't care that number of schools like in region 1 and 2 don't make the state tournament because to truly have state tournament you need whole state represented regionally or its not state tournament. My feelings on those regions and schools from larger cities they are in wrong classification to begin with they should be with large class A schools they would then have as much a chance to win as small schools in class b do against them. I remember quote in Grand Forks Herald when Grafton one of the larger class b schools were class A there numbers were down so bad they couldn't get kids to compete against these larger schools because they didn't think they could win. The funny thing here is these same schools forget its no different with small schools now competing against there larger class b schools. This is why i have lost intensity of interest in class b sports because this issue had not been addressed . I also think this has happened state wide for large number of people but nothing has been done about it and now i don't think it will ever be done because nobody wants to take risk financially for the needs of smaller because they do not out weigh needs of the large and system it supports.

Nailed it! Nobody can argue with you! Now we just need representation to make the change.

[senditin]

FW was suspended from continuing postseason play (2009) and from competition in postseason (2010), for an ineligible player(too many semesters) there was rumors of a player on that team that was 20 but they weren’t suspended for that player. So it’s not entirely ignorant. Especially considering it’s the same coach and AD that received the suspension.

Woodchuck, your jealousy is showing. That's ok, if taking cheapshots at FW makes you feel better for all the times they beat you then go for it. We'll take the W's.

[vikingman]

isn't everything he said true?

[Sportsrube]

Way back in my day.....

We had an all-state basketball and football player who suddenly began receiving letters from a private school offering him an "academic scholarship" to attend their school. He had a GPA below 2.9 and scored lower than a 21 on his ACT....not quite the academic performance that warrants a scholarship so it is quite possible it was him being recruited for his athletic ability. I only mention this because yes some private schools do recruit...all of them all of the time...no...but some of them some of the time...yes.

100% spot on. Not too long ago I was at a Team Camp and heard an elderly gentleman telling one of our players how he and his wife had their basement set up like an apartment and that his wife would cook for him, do his laundry, etc... and how he would get a great education and they could even find some help for the tuition payments if that was necessary. When we reported it to the NDHSAA we were told that because he was not officially affiliated with that Private School there was nothing they could do about. The coaches may not recruit, but others supporters of their schools do.

[defensewinsgames]

I also think the no boundaries thing creates a natural recruitment without there having to be a sales pitch from coaches and school staff. If you are a good high school basketball player and live in a city with a private school but perhaps aren't good enough to be in the best two or three players on your Class A school there is a real draw to go to the private school and be one of the top players. It also gives choices on the way through. You take a look at the classes of both at the private and public schools then decide which class will be better - smart people can usually pick out the classes that will have a chance to compete by Junior High. Same principle of choice applies to style of play and coaching - you can pick the school you like best. You grow up in a class b school of 100 kids there isn't much choice to be had unless parents are willing to move (it is really tough to move for small town kids because family farms aren't mobile homes).

[tigertown35]

Yeah I just learned about this the other day watching some of the SODAK 16 qualifier games. I think it is a great idea and I think it will come to North Dakota soon. It is fun to see one representative from each region every year but at the same time, state should be reserved for the best of the best. You can look at the girls class B tourney from this year as an example. You had two (really one) teams that were better than everyone else and it would have been fun to see at least one other team to be able to compete with them like a Kindred. Its not like we're going to get all 8 teams from region 1 or 2 or 4 as we would only see a maximum of 2 for each region. I also think we should use seed points like they do. Especially for the state games rather than having the coaches vote. There is too much ambiguity and secrecy in the seeding of the state tournament and I dont like it. If they were a little more transparent about who they put where it would ease a lot of unrest. So yeah South Dakota is doing some good things, but I also noticed they dont use the restricted arc as of yet. I think thats been a welcome addition in North Dakota Basketball. I am also very grateful for the shot clock. Glad to see the Dakotas using it, and I think its made the games more fun. when is Minnesota going to join us?

[woodchuck10]

Using QRF these would be the matchups for a NoDak 16

#1 Four Winds-M vs #16 White Shield @Devils Lake
#2 Grafton vs #15 Bottineau @Devils Lake
#3 Langdon-EM vs #14 Oak Grove @GF Betty
#4 Linton-HMB vs #13 North Border @GF Betty
#5 Dickinson Trinity vs #12 Kindred @ Jamestown CC
#6 Flasher vs #11 Powers Lake @Watford City
#7 Beulah vs #10 Rugby @Watford City
#8 Edgeley-KM vs #9 Shiloh Christian @Jamestown CC

[The Schwab]

This year the sweet 16 matchups would guarantee us 2 small school teams making the tournament, I don't think that would be the case most years. I do like parts of the system, but IMO it wouldn't fix the problem.

[packers21]

This year the sweet 16 matchups would guarantee us 2 small school teams making the tournament, I don't think that would be the case most years. I do like parts of the system, but IMO it wouldn't fix the problem.

You would traditionally see even more bigs/privates with the sweet 16.

[ndlionsfan]

Using QRF these would be the matchups for a NoDak 16

#1 Four Winds-M vs #16 White Shield @Devils Lake
#2 Grafton vs #15 Bottineau @Devils Lake
#3 Langdon-EM vs #14 Oak Grove @GF Betty
#4 Linton-HMB vs #13 North Border @GF Betty
#5 Dickinson Trinity vs #12 Kindred @ Jamestown CC
#6 Flasher vs #11 Powers Lake @Watford City
#7 Beulah vs #10 Rugby @Watford City
#8 Edgeley-KM vs #9 Shiloh Christian @Jamestown CC

I like the matchups and think it would be great games all around. Only part I don't like is that NB ends up playing LHMB and there is no way around finding a suitable location in which fans of one team don't have a 3+ hour drive for a single game.

[The Schwab]

This year the sweet 16 matchups would guarantee us 2 small school teams making the tournament, I don't think that would be the case most years. I do like parts of the system, but IMO it wouldn't fix the problem.

You would traditionally see even more bigs/privates with the sweet 16.

Absolutely, because you wouldn't have Region 3 or Region 8 basically guaranteed a small school.

[woodchuck10]

Using QRF these would be the matchups for a NoDak 16

#1 Four Winds-M vs #16 White Shield @Devils Lake
#2 Grafton vs #15 Bottineau @Devils Lake
#3 Langdon-EM vs #14 Oak Grove @GF Betty
#4 Linton-HMB vs #13 North Border @GF Betty
#5 Dickinson Trinity vs #12 Kindred @ Jamestown CC
#6 Flasher vs #11 Powers Lake @Watford City
#7 Beulah vs #10 Rugby @Watford City
#8 Edgeley-KM vs #9 Shiloh Christian @Jamestown CC

I like the matchups and think it would be great games all around. Only part I don't like is that NB ends up playing LHMB and there is no way around finding a suitable location in which fans of one team don't have a 3+ hour drive for a single game.

North Border should be a top 8 team, it's just where they fell with the QRF. The rankings could be tweaked, maybe even factor in the media poll somehow. Play these games on Saturday, 2:30 and 4pm. I think these four site would be packed! Jamestown CC probably not nearly as much with two privates schools involved. I like the four sites idea better than 8. As a SJ fan I wouldn't mind a drive to Jamestown or even Fargo for a shot at state.

[B Historian]

The SoDak 16 wrapped up last night with eight games each in Class A and Class B. I'm not sure I see the wisdom in playing all 16 of those games in one night but I guess that's how they do it. The Class AA games were played on Saturday.

Of the 24 games played, the higher seed won 21 of them. The only real major upset was a 13 seed beating a 4 seed in Class B. White River won as a 3 seed in Class B and will be going to the state tournament for the 16th year in a row. However, another team from the same region as White River was able to make the state tournament for the first time in 25 years by winning as the 6th seed. This is the big advantage to this system in that multiple teams from a strong region have a chance to make state.

The AA state tournament is held in Rapid City this year. The nearest team involved in the tournament is Mitchell, which is 275 miles away! This is the down side to this type of playoff system in that one area of a state can be completely excluded.

In SD they do not use the QRF for seeding the teams but instead use a fairly rudimentary points system. Under this type of system a team like North Border would be ranked much higher than with the QRF.

[The Schwab]

The SoDak 16 wrapped up last night with eight games each in Class A and Class B. I'm not sure I see the wisdom in playing all 16 of those games in one night but I guess that's how they do it. The Class AA games were played on Saturday.

Of the 24 games played, the higher seed won 21 of them. The only real major upset was a 13 seed beating a 4 seed in Class B. White River won as a 3 seed in Class B and will be going to the state tournament for the 16th year in a row. However, another team from the same region as White River was able to make the state tournament for the first time in 25 years by winning as the 6th seed. This is the big advantage to this system in that multiple teams from a strong region have a chance to make state.

The AA state tournament is held in Rapid City this year. The nearest team involved in the tournament is Mitchell, which is 275 miles away! This is the down side to this type of playoff system in that one area of a state can be completely excluded.

In SD they do not use the QRF for seeding the teams but instead use a fairly rudimentary points system. Under this type of system a team like North Border would be ranked much higher than with the QRF.

I much prefer the power points to the QRF, because everyone knows how the formula works.

[ND Sports Fan]

Why is there so much animosity towards the Private Schools? They are in bigger cities but the cost to attend limits the number of kids who will/would attend these schools. OG is 10k a year. I hear all the time about Privates recruiting - simply not true. The bigger concern is schools like Four Winds (great program and coach) but who knows how old those kids are. With open enrollment, you see kids jumping to schools to play with kids that they play AAU ball with over the summer. Happens all the time, especially in other states like MN. I'm not apposed to the 3 class system, but do get frustrated with the talk about Privates and how the smaller schools don't have a chance to compete. At the end of the day, you do need #'s but more importantly you need to have a strong program that starts developing these kids at a young age. Just my opinion.

Quite the ignorant post.

Why exactly is it ignorant?

10k a year prevents kids from going to a Private School - True
Privates don't recruit athletes - True
FourWinds - Older kids? True - Isn't their big guy 20?
AAU has created kids jumping to other schools to play with friends - True
You need #'s yes but at the end of the day successful programs start at a young age - True

Doesn't seem ignorant to me.

Facts conveniently omitted to as NOT to sound ignorant:

10K a year prevents kids from going to Private School: You conveniently forgot to mention that private schools, boosters, families, supporters, etc, allow sponsorship of students (athletes) to allow students to attend and offset the 10K. I am personally aware of a family sponsoring students at a private school, BTW, the students I am aware of just happen to be a high performing football player and a high performing basketball player.

Private Schools Don't Recruit Athletes: I had a parent of a private school student look me dead in the eye and say, "off course we recruit, why wouldn't we"

FourWinds had Older kids: The NDHSAA governs eligibility, [b]SECTION VI: A student shall not be eligible to compete in interscholastic activities on or after the day on which the twentieth anniversary of his/her birth occurs.[b] Which means, there are rules in place to prevent that. Do some slip through the cracks? Possibly, but if you think this is only a FourWinds (I assume you are referring to Native Schools) issue, you are kidding yourself.

I can generally agree with your last 2 points, however, I am not aware of any AAU players, that I personally know, who have transferred high schools. Doesn't mean it doesn't happen, I simply have not seen it.