Sportsrube wrote:Saw on the news tonight that Fargo Shanley has canceled the remainder of their FB season due to Covis-19.
classB4ever wrote:It seems that the media is no longer pushing the "forecasted death" numbers they used early on. The reason is simple, the amount of deaths they were forecasting early on to scare the American population has been shown to be completely ridiculous.
Run4Fun2009 wrote:Sportsrube wrote:Saw on the news tonight that Fargo Shanley has canceled the remainder of their FB season due to Covis-19.
ONCE AGAIN...NO! They are out two weeks...can return to practice on 9/30 and their game vs. GF Red River was moved to 10/3 (Saturday). I am tied to the school for another sport and just received word from the AD.
Flip wrote:classB4ever wrote:It seems that the media is no longer pushing the "forecasted death" numbers they used early on. The reason is simple, the amount of deaths they were forecasting early on to scare the American population has been shown to be completely ridiculous.
Flip wrote:Every source you cited mentioned a death toll if no action was taken or in the case of the last one if we reopened the economy at the end of March.
The Schwab wrote:In my own personal opinion: It is worth it to me to have to work through inconveniences in my life so I can help protect vulnerable populations.
classB4ever wrote:The Schwab wrote:In my own personal opinion: It is worth it to me to have to work through inconveniences in my life so I can help protect vulnerable populations.
Agreed. However, you must also decide what the scope of "inconvenience" is. Would you consider losing a business you worked your entire life to build an inconvenience? Losing your home? Not being able to provide for your family? You see, my problem is that some businesses were allowed to stay open and others were not. Who determines that? Also, whoever did make those decisions, what early criteria/data did they use to make those decisions?
Put another way, would you be willing to lose your life savings, home, business if you were told you had a 99.9% chance of not dying from Covid19? 99% chance? 98% chance? 90% chance? 50% chance? What is your personal line that you would cross? Once again, not trying to start an argument, just like to hear other peoples opinions.
The Schwab wrote:classB4ever wrote:The Schwab wrote:In my own personal opinion: It is worth it to me to have to work through inconveniences in my life so I can help protect vulnerable populations.
Agreed. However, you must also decide what the scope of "inconvenience" is. Would you consider losing a business you worked your entire life to build an inconvenience? Losing your home? Not being able to provide for your family? You see, my problem is that some businesses were allowed to stay open and others were not. Who determines that? Also, whoever did make those decisions, what early criteria/data did they use to make those decisions?
Put another way, would you be willing to lose your life savings, home, business if you were told you had a 99.9% chance of not dying from Covid19? 99% chance? 98% chance? 90% chance? 50% chance? What is your personal line that you would cross? Once again, not trying to start an argument, just like to hear other peoples opinions.
First and foremost, I feel sorry for people who lost their jobs due to the shut down.
I'm not a business owner, but the days for brick and mortar stores were numbered long before COVID-19, the shut down due to the pandemic just accelerated it. I feel for those people, I truly do. I think as a business owner you have to be creative in how you make your money, being diversified would help you through the down times I would think. I 100% understand that some businesses don't have the luxury of diversifying what they do and I feel for those businesses. I do know that there are a lot of businesses that experienced growth during the shutdown. I guess I don't know what kind of businesses you're talking about, but those would be a few of my thoughts on the business side of things.
I guess I should clarify my thoughts on the inconveniences:
1. I think that it is absolutely ridiculous for social gatherings of large groups to be happening
2. Sporting events can happen without fans
3. If we do have sports, fans at sporting events can wear masks
4. People out shopping can wear masks. If there are truly people who CAN'T wear a mask, I understand them not wearing one, but there are other options such as a face shield (and I'd be willing to bet that over 50% of people claiming they can't wear a mask, could actually wear a mask and they just don't want to.)
As an educator and a coach I might be in the minority of this one but:
1. Life will go on if there are not high school sports, they are not a matter of life and death.
2. Do I feel for the kids who didn't get to compete in a state tournament last year? Absolutely
3. Do I feel bad for the kids who didn't get to compete in their spring sports? You bet I do.
4. Did that affect peoples lively hood? I could be wrong, but I don't think it did (maybe a handful of people).
In my opinion, a lot of good would come from a mask mandate.
I don't know about the life savings statement as I'm sure there are people who lost a lot of money due to the shut down and I'm not going to speak to other peoples finances. I do think that maybe the shut down opened some peoples eyes to the fact that they may have been living outside of their means before the shut down.
momofathletes wrote:Regarding flu numbers: depending on the source, I have seen death numbers for flu anywhere from 8.2K-20K to 40K-60K annually in the US. So far we are at 200K for about 8-9 months and counting. So already we have exceeded worst case flu numbers more than 3x. Regarding the people signing up for test and going home without being tested and then getting a call the next day with a positive result: this has been addressed by the NDDOH on more than one occasion. Those calls did not originate from them and are scam calls. The media forecasts had a large range of death counts early on, because it was a novel virus and not much was not known about it and not much knowledge of how much action was going to be taken to control the spread. It also depended on what media you were listening to. I tend to avoid mainstream media and social media for information and stick to medical publications which I have access to and find to be more reliable, but even with those there was variance because it was a predication and too many unknowns. One reason death % has been decreasing is because in the beginning it was affecting the elderly in care centers more. Now the main group being infected are younger people who will generally not have as devastating results of infection. False positives/negatives are not new either. Those happen with plenty of tests. Pregnancy, flu, strep to name a few.
momofathletes wrote:Also, the number of deaths being claimed are subject to some very harsh criticism. Died because of Covid19 and with Covid19 seems to disappear from all the reports. Therefore the numbers have been inflated by who knows how much. To add to the discussion, hospitals can make financial gains by claiming Covid19 on death certificates and can make even more money by the use of ventilators on each of those cases. Why would they do that? Liken it to being a robber and entering a house. All the jewels and valuables are on a cart at the front door waiting to be hauled out, while the socks and underwear are locked up in a safe. What will you take?
Died because of Covid or with covid: Again the NDDOH has been very transparent and have differentiated the two on their website. But as an example someone with a comorbidity can be getting along quite well and then contracts Covid and dies. Without Covid they probably still would have been doing fairly well. So what killed them? Relate this to Jane Doe being in a car crash. She survives the crash but 4 days later dies of a cerebral hemorrhage in the ICU. So technically she "survived" the crash but without the trauma she probably would not have developed a fatal brain bleed. It works the same way with Covid .
As for hospital financial gains: Anyone making an argument that hospitals make more $ by claiming Covid does not understand how hospitals are reimbursed (google DRG for hospital reimbursements). When admitting a patient to hospital a physician does not just list the primary reason for admission, they list their pre-existing conditions as well because they get paid for those. Example: Jane Doe is admitted with pneumonia. She also has Hypertension, diabetes and congestive heart failure. So you can't ignore their other issues while they are hospitalized with pneumonia as they need to be addressed as well. So she will need increased lab work, frequent blood glucose checks, maybe cardiac monitoring etc while she is there which all increase costs that may have nothing specifically to do with her pneumonia. Relate that to taking your car into the shop for new tires. While there the tech notices your brake pads are shot too. So if those are replaced you will get charged for parts and labor on those as well even if you didn't come in for that reason. (hopefully with your permission first though). If they didn't charge for those the business wouldn't stay afloat for long. It works the same way with healthcare.
Regarding putting a patient on a ventilator to make more money: I don't have a concrete answer to whether or not that has happened, but any physician that uses financial gain as their decision to place a patient on a ventilator does not deserve to have a license to practice. Period.
momofathletes wrote:I stated early on, Covid19 is real. It can be devastating to elderly people and people with weak immune systems or people with underlying conditions. However, one has to ask themselves if Covid19 is worse than the financial and emotional burdens it has caused. Whether or not the deaths created by the forced actions of state governments is higher than the actual virus itself. What happens when the cure becomes worse than the problem? You may attack this if you like, but would like to keep it in a good, debatable way vs. mudslinging. 2 cents.
Is the cure worse than the problem? I don't claim to know that answer either. Time will tell . But it was predicted that rural states like ND wouldn't peak until fall. Judging from our current status I hope we are peaking now and we will be heading in the right direction soon. It probably depends on who you ask and how much you have been affected by it. If you have lost several loved ones who would otherwise be alive and well right now the answer probably differs greatly than those who haven't lost so much in lives or livelihoods. For whatever it is worth I was fine with schools opening up and making an attempt at fall sports. This virus isn't going away anytime soon so we need to be able to coexist with it as we are not the species that can just hibernate for months on end. But we cannot just carry on as we did pre-covid without any changes and expect good things to happen either. I think the return of sports has gone as planned: it is happening but not without glitches and interruptions.
The Schwab wrote:classB4ever wrote:The Schwab wrote:In my own personal opinion: It is worth it to me to have to work through inconveniences in my life so I can help protect vulnerable populations.
Agreed. However, you must also decide what the scope of "inconvenience" is. Would you consider losing a business you worked your entire life to build an inconvenience? Losing your home? Not being able to provide for your family? You see, my problem is that some businesses were allowed to stay open and others were not. Who determines that? Also, whoever did make those decisions, what early criteria/data did they use to make those decisions?
Put another way, would you be willing to lose your life savings, home, business if you were told you had a 99.9% chance of not dying from Covid19? 99% chance? 98% chance? 90% chance? 50% chance? What is your personal line that you would cross? Once again, not trying to start an argument, just like to hear other peoples opinions.
First and foremost, I feel sorry for people who lost their jobs due to the shut down.
I'm not a business owner, but the days for brick and mortar stores were numbered long before COVID-19, the shut down due to the pandemic just accelerated it.
Have been in manufacturing for 30+ years. Would have agreed with you 5 years ago. However, we have gradually been bringing back manufacturing jobs which were lost in the last 2 decades. Once manufacturing comes back, the main street businesses, that thrive from supplying communities with manufacturing/factories, follow.
I feel for those people, I truly do. I think as a business owner you have to be creative in how you make your money, being diversified would help you through the down times I would think. I 100% understand that some businesses don't have the luxury of diversifying what they do and I feel for those businesses. I do know that there are a lot of businesses that experienced growth during the shutdown. I guess I don't know what kind of businesses you're talking about, but those would be a few of my thoughts on the business side of things.
The businesses that experienced growth were the Amazon's and Walmart's of the world. Jeff Bezos increased his wealth by $39 billion in 4 months during pandemic. Walton family a bit less. They were allowed to stay open while thousands of others lost their businesses due to "forced closure". Why would you close down businesses that would have allowed the population to stay more spread out? What they essentially did was keep only a few select businesses open and "herded" the entire population threw a few "gates" forcing everybody closer. Made no sense IMO.
1. I think that it is absolutely ridiculous for social gatherings of large groups to be happening
2. Sporting events can happen without fans
3. If we do have sports, fans at sporting events can wear masks
4. People out shopping can wear masks. If there are truly people who CAN'T wear a mask, I understand them not wearing one, but there are other options such as a face shield (and I'd be willing to bet that over 50% of people claiming they can't wear a mask, could actually wear a mask and they just don't want to.)
Everything above is partially true if you believe that the virus is as deadly as claimed. It is proving that was not the case. You have to admit that even scientists are split on whether or not masks are as effective as claimed except you won't hear both sides of that debate from the mainstream media.
As an educator and a coach I might be in the minority of this one but:
1. Life will go on if there are not high school sports, they are not a matter of life and death.
2. Do I feel for the kids who didn't get to compete in a state tournament last year? Absolutely
3. Do I feel bad for the kids who didn't get to compete in their spring sports? You bet I do.
4. Did that affect peoples lively hood? I could be wrong, but I don't think it did (maybe a handful of people).
Once again, a person has to decide if this entire thing was as bad as they claimed from the beginning. Quarantining the people that tested positive or showed symptoms was reasonable. Putting in mandates for people at high risk was reasonable. Since it was a novel virus, they erred on the side of caution. "Flattening the curve" is what they claimed and it was only to last a couple of weeks. Many states are still in lockdown for crying out loud. From the beginning scientists couldn't even agree on what was the best avenue. Of course, main stream media knew the best avenue. (sarcasm intended).
In my opinion, a lot of good would come from a mask mandate.
What good? Through individual research have found scientists argue whether or not masks are good or bad. At what point do you draw the line? When the government mandates you to stay in your house and never leave? Buy everything online and have it delivered? Only work from the computer? Some people think that's fine. I for one don't. I think wearing a mask is demeaning. It covers up one's identity. It's hard for people with bad hearing to understand what's being said. For people at high risk or people who choose to wear one, fine. But don't remove people's personal liberties by mandating everyone into the ground.
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