COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

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COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby Flip » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:05 pm

How do you think we get sports back in ND? I've seen a couple posts that they're worried about football next fall. I'll ask, why do you think basketball will be played next winter?
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby defensewinsgames » Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:29 am

I think sports will resume next year. I'm not confident that they will resume in a full capacity with fans and the current setup but I do think we play a "full" sports slate next year. Start times, season lengths, etc might be impacted. I look at it like this, everything needs to head back to normal sometime. By August of next year we will be way closer to treatments, vaccines, and just increased knowledge about the virus. We also will have more of a herd immunity built up by then. November we have a national election. How would you postpone a presidential election!? I do not see it happening so we will need to be taking steps towards normality for the election to happen. I could be dead wrong, heaven knows these are times of constant change, but believe we will have football next fall.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby packers21 » Wed Apr 08, 2020 9:50 am

I do not see how we will be back in school or sports right now without a vaccine. Everyone is terrified of this thing and the media isn't helping. These numbers the IHME are coming up with for ND aren't even close to correct and they are updating them with incorrect information. I think there are only two ways the school open on time and we have sports next year. 1. There is a vaccine 2. We believe the peak of the virus has hit and we believe a return to normalcy is more important than hiding from this virus anymore.

Personally I do not see us back to school or sports until there is a vaccine. Which might be an entire year from right now. I hope for a different outcome but I just don't see it with the absolute fear ppl have of this thing.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby cmplx6 » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:53 am

Well North Dakota announced that fall sports will be returning like normal.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby classB4ever » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:08 pm

This post is not meant to be a political statement and want to also state that any death from Covid19 is too many. And one last thing, that people in charge of making decisions on this subject have a very unenviable task and want to give them a shout out of pure gratitude for having to deal with it no matter what hand they were dealt. I posted this here not to muddy up the water in other threads going through this discussion.

It seems that the media is no longer pushing the "forecasted death" numbers they used early on. The reason is simple, the amount of deaths they were forecasting early on to scare the American population has been shown to be completely ridiculous. The models they used for forecasting have been proven to be shady at best and downright evil/unlawful at worst. Instead, they are now pushing positive cases. And of course like any pandemic and with increased testing, those numbers will go up. But, there have been so many reports of how flawed the testing results are that one must question those as well. People signing up for tests, waiting line is too long and leaving. Only to receive a positive test result the next day after not even been tested. The real question to ask yourself as the positive cases go up, is what has happened to the % of deaths? It has plummeted to flu like numbers.

Also, the number of deaths being claimed are subject to some very harsh criticism. Died because of Covid19 and with Covid19 seems to disappear from all the reports. Therefore the numbers have been inflated by who knows how much. To add to the discussion, hospitals can make financial gains by claiming Covid19 on death certificates and can make even more money by the use of ventilators on each of those cases. Why would they do that? Liken it to being a robber and entering a house. All the jewels and valuables are on a cart at the front door waiting to be hauled out, while the socks and underwear are locked up in a safe. What will you take?

I stated early on, Covid19 is real. It can be devastating to elderly people and people with weak immune systems or people with underlying conditions. However, one has to ask themselves if Covid19 is worse than the financial and emotional burdens it has caused. Whether or not the deaths created by the forced actions of state governments is higher than the actual virus itself. What happens when the cure becomes worse than the problem? You may attack this if you like, but would like to keep it in a good, debatable way vs. mudslinging. 2 cents.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby Sportsrube » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:09 pm

Saw on the news tonight that Fargo Shanley has canceled the remainder of their FB season due to Covis-19.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:28 pm

Sportsrube wrote:Saw on the news tonight that Fargo Shanley has canceled the remainder of their FB season due to Covis-19.


ONCE AGAIN...NO! They are out two weeks...can return to practice on 9/30 and their game vs. GF Red River was moved to 10/3 (Saturday). I am tied to the school for another sport and just received word from the AD.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby Flip » Wed Sep 23, 2020 11:27 pm

classB4ever wrote:It seems that the media is no longer pushing the "forecasted death" numbers they used early on. The reason is simple, the amount of deaths they were forecasting early on to scare the American population has been shown to be completely ridiculous.

Image
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby Sportsrube » Thu Sep 24, 2020 6:48 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
Sportsrube wrote:Saw on the news tonight that Fargo Shanley has canceled the remainder of their FB season due to Covis-19.


ONCE AGAIN...NO! They are out two weeks...can return to practice on 9/30 and their game vs. GF Red River was moved to 10/3 (Saturday). I am tied to the school for another sport and just received word from the AD.



Again, thanks for the correction. I was just repeating what the Bismarck stations were saying. I am glad they aren't canceling the entire rest of the season.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby classB4ever » Thu Sep 24, 2020 9:24 am

Flip wrote:
classB4ever wrote:It seems that the media is no longer pushing the "forecasted death" numbers they used early on. The reason is simple, the amount of deaths they were forecasting early on to scare the American population has been shown to be completely ridiculous.

Image


March 16, 2020 New York Times by Sheri Fink
"Sweeping new federal recommendations announced on Monday for Americans to sharply limit their activities appeared to draw on a dire scientific report warning that, without action by the government and individuals to slow the spread of coronavirus and suppress new cases, 2.2 million people in the United States could die."

March 17, 2020 Washington Post by William Booth
"The Imperial College London group reported that if nothing was done by governments and individuals and the pandemic remained uncontrolled, 510,000 would die in Britain and 2.2 million in the United States over the course of the outbreak.

These kinds of numbers are deeply concerning for countries with top-drawer health-care systems. They are terrifying for less-developed countries, global health experts say.

If Britain and the United States pursued more-ambitious measures to mitigate the spread of the coronavirus, to slow but not necessarily stop the epidemic over the coming few months, they could reduce mortality by half, to 260,000 people in the United Kingdom and 1.1 million in the United States."

March 25th, 2020 ABC News by Libbey Cathey
"A scientific report released March 16 by an epidemic modeling group at Imperial College London, found that without action by the government and individuals to slow the spread of COVID-19, as many as 2.2 million people in the U.S. could die -- not accounting for the negative effects of health care systems being overwhelmed."

March 30th, 2020 CNN by Stephen Collinson
"A President, who a month ago was predicting a miracle that would just make the virus go away, was presented with cataclysmic figures that 2.2 million Americans could die if he indulged his itch to start reopening the economy in the coming week."
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby Flip » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:16 am

Every source you cited mentioned a death toll if no action was taken or in the case of the last one if we reopened the economy at the end of March.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby classB4ever » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:27 am

Flip wrote:Every source you cited mentioned a death toll if no action was taken or in the case of the last one if we reopened the economy at the end of March.


Not all reports had the qualifier of "if no action was taken" attached or generally buried deep. The main point being is the media was blasting this across all airwaves early on and it scared the American public into submission. Would you agree with that?
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby Flip » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:43 am

I agree the virus has scared some of the American public.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby The Schwab » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:53 am

In my own personal opinion: It is worth it to me to have to work through inconveniences in my life so I can help protect vulnerable populations.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby classB4ever » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:11 pm

The Schwab wrote:In my own personal opinion: It is worth it to me to have to work through inconveniences in my life so I can help protect vulnerable populations.


Agreed. However, you must also decide what the scope of "inconvenience" is. Would you consider losing a business you worked your entire life to build an inconvenience? Losing your home? Not being able to provide for your family? You see, my problem is that some businesses were allowed to stay open and others were not. Who determines that? Also, whoever did make those decisions, what early criteria/data did they use to make those decisions?

Put another way, would you be willing to lose your life savings, home, business if you were told you had a 99.9% chance of not dying from Covid19? 99% chance? 98% chance? 90% chance? 50% chance? What is your personal line that you would cross? Once again, not trying to start an argument, just like to hear other peoples opinions.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby The Schwab » Thu Sep 24, 2020 12:57 pm

classB4ever wrote:
The Schwab wrote:In my own personal opinion: It is worth it to me to have to work through inconveniences in my life so I can help protect vulnerable populations.


Agreed. However, you must also decide what the scope of "inconvenience" is. Would you consider losing a business you worked your entire life to build an inconvenience? Losing your home? Not being able to provide for your family? You see, my problem is that some businesses were allowed to stay open and others were not. Who determines that? Also, whoever did make those decisions, what early criteria/data did they use to make those decisions?

Put another way, would you be willing to lose your life savings, home, business if you were told you had a 99.9% chance of not dying from Covid19? 99% chance? 98% chance? 90% chance? 50% chance? What is your personal line that you would cross? Once again, not trying to start an argument, just like to hear other peoples opinions.


First and foremost, I feel sorry for people who lost their jobs due to the shut down.

I'm not a business owner, but the days for brick and mortar stores were numbered long before COVID-19, the shut down due to the pandemic just accelerated it. I feel for those people, I truly do. I think as a business owner you have to be creative in how you make your money, being diversified would help you through the down times I would think. I 100% understand that some businesses don't have the luxury of diversifying what they do and I feel for those businesses. I do know that there are a lot of businesses that experienced growth during the shutdown. I guess I don't know what kind of businesses you're talking about, but those would be a few of my thoughts on the business side of things.

I guess I should clarify my thoughts on the inconveniences:

1. I think that it is absolutely ridiculous for social gatherings of large groups to be happening
2. Sporting events can happen without fans
3. If we do have sports, fans at sporting events can wear masks
4. People out shopping can wear masks. If there are truly people who CAN'T wear a mask, I understand them not wearing one, but there are other options such as a face shield (and I'd be willing to bet that over 50% of people claiming they can't wear a mask, could actually wear a mask and they just don't want to.)

As an educator and a coach I might be in the minority of this one but:
1. Life will go on if there are not high school sports, they are not a matter of life and death.
2. Do I feel for the kids who didn't get to compete in a state tournament last year? Absolutely
3. Do I feel bad for the kids who didn't get to compete in their spring sports? You bet I do.
4. Did that affect peoples lively hood? I could be wrong, but I don't think it did (maybe a handful of people).

In my opinion, a lot of good would come from a mask mandate.

I don't know about the life savings statement as I'm sure there are people who lost a lot of money due to the shut down and I'm not going to speak to other peoples finances. I do think that maybe the shut down opened some peoples eyes to the fact that they may have been living outside of their means before the shut down.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby classB4ever » Thu Sep 24, 2020 1:04 pm

The Schwab wrote:
classB4ever wrote:
The Schwab wrote:In my own personal opinion: It is worth it to me to have to work through inconveniences in my life so I can help protect vulnerable populations.


Agreed. However, you must also decide what the scope of "inconvenience" is. Would you consider losing a business you worked your entire life to build an inconvenience? Losing your home? Not being able to provide for your family? You see, my problem is that some businesses were allowed to stay open and others were not. Who determines that? Also, whoever did make those decisions, what early criteria/data did they use to make those decisions?

Put another way, would you be willing to lose your life savings, home, business if you were told you had a 99.9% chance of not dying from Covid19? 99% chance? 98% chance? 90% chance? 50% chance? What is your personal line that you would cross? Once again, not trying to start an argument, just like to hear other peoples opinions.




First and foremost, I feel sorry for people who lost their jobs due to the shut down.

I'm not a business owner, but the days for brick and mortar stores were numbered long before COVID-19, the shut down due to the pandemic just accelerated it. I feel for those people, I truly do. I think as a business owner you have to be creative in how you make your money, being diversified would help you through the down times I would think. I 100% understand that some businesses don't have the luxury of diversifying what they do and I feel for those businesses. I do know that there are a lot of businesses that experienced growth during the shutdown. I guess I don't know what kind of businesses you're talking about, but those would be a few of my thoughts on the business side of things.

I guess I should clarify my thoughts on the inconveniences:

1. I think that it is absolutely ridiculous for social gatherings of large groups to be happening
2. Sporting events can happen without fans
3. If we do have sports, fans at sporting events can wear masks
4. People out shopping can wear masks. If there are truly people who CAN'T wear a mask, I understand them not wearing one, but there are other options such as a face shield (and I'd be willing to bet that over 50% of people claiming they can't wear a mask, could actually wear a mask and they just don't want to.)

As an educator and a coach I might be in the minority of this one but:
1. Life will go on if there are not high school sports, they are not a matter of life and death.
2. Do I feel for the kids who didn't get to compete in a state tournament last year? Absolutely
3. Do I feel bad for the kids who didn't get to compete in their spring sports? You bet I do.
4. Did that affect peoples lively hood? I could be wrong, but I don't think it did (maybe a handful of people).

In my opinion, a lot of good would come from a mask mandate.

I don't know about the life savings statement as I'm sure there are people who lost a lot of money due to the shut down and I'm not going to speak to other peoples finances. I do think that maybe the shut down opened some peoples eyes to the fact that they may have been living outside of their means before the shut down.


Although I disagree with almost 100% of your post, I appreciate your input.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Sep 24, 2020 3:46 pm

I don't believe masks reduce the spread of the virus as much as we have politically been made to believe. States with mask mandates are not containing it anymore than states without.

I also don't believe in mandated shutdowns of businesses like we saw earlier this year. Limiting capacity to reduce or eliminate large group gatherings is a better practice in my opinion. Reducing sporting event fans or playing games without fans I'm all for to help protect people and reduce spread. Cancelling entire seasons, no.

Mental health and well being and not being talked about enough during this pandemic. People are going to struggle for years after this is done. We haven't even scratched the surface on drug addiction, suicide, depression, etc. that will happen in the next 5 years and the money that will need to be appropriated to fight that battle.

Time is one thing a person can never get back. Last year's seniors will never have another track or baseball season, music contest, senior trip, etc. People's grandparents in nursing homes that have not been able to see family the last 6 months will never get that back with the time they have left in the world. I know that's difficult to fathom with the amount of COVID cases and deaths in long term care facilities, but many would rather take the chance to be able to spend time with the people they love.

COVID is a serious virus and very contagious. I've worked with over 30 cases directly, but fortunately none developed serious complications and about half had no symptoms at all. The thing that bugs me the most is the reporting of the data. There are so many scare tactics involved by media and politicians that you don't know what to believe. I would like to see the data for a typical flu season. I'm guessing if we had that blasted across all media outlets daily with positive cases, hospitalizations, and deaths we would be in the same boat we are in now. But you never see or hear about it hardly at all. I know more people that have been hospitalized and have died from influenza than COVID at this point. Hopefully we'll be at the peak soon and it will decline and remain that way, but who knows how it will all play out.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby momofathletes » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:06 pm

Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby classB4ever » Wed Sep 23, 2020 1:08 pm

This post is not meant to be a political statement and want to also state that any death from Covid19 is too many. And one last thing, that people in charge of making decisions on this subject have a very unenviable task and want to give them a shout out of pure gratitude for having to deal with it no matter what hand they were dealt. I posted this here not to muddy up the water in other threads going through this discussion.

It seems that the media is no longer pushing the "forecasted death" numbers they used early on. The reason is simple, the amount of deaths they were forecasting early on to scare the American population has been shown to be completely ridiculous. The models they used for forecasting have been proven to be shady at best and downright evil/unlawful at worst. Instead, they are now pushing positive cases. And of course like any pandemic and with increased testing, those numbers will go up. But, there have been so many reports of how flawed the testing results are that one must question those as well. People signing up for tests, waiting line is too long and leaving. Only to receive a positive test result the next day after not even been tested. The real question to ask yourself as the positive cases go up, is what has happened to the % of deaths? It has plummeted to flu like numbers.

OK I will debate, one paragraph at a time or it will get lengthy.

Regarding flu numbers: depending on the source, I have seen death numbers for flu anywhere from 8.2K-20K to 40K-60K annually in the US. So far we are at 200K for about 8-9 months and counting. So already we have exceeded worst case flu numbers more than 3x. Regarding the people signing up for test and going home without being tested and then getting a call the next day with a positive result: this has been addressed by the NDDOH on more than one occasion. Those calls did not originate from them and are scam calls. The media forecasts had a large range of death counts early on, because it was a novel virus and not much was not known about it and not much knowledge of how much action was going to be taken to control the spread. It also depended on what media you were listening to. I tend to avoid mainstream media and social media for information and stick to medical publications which I have access to and find to be more reliable, but even with those there was variance because it was a predication and too many unknowns. One reason death % has been decreasing is because in the beginning it was affecting the elderly in care centers more. Now the main group being infected are younger people who will generally not have as devastating results of infection. False positives/negatives are not new either. Those happen with plenty of tests. Pregnancy, flu, strep to name a few.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby momofathletes » Thu Sep 24, 2020 4:27 pm

Also, the number of deaths being claimed are subject to some very harsh criticism. Died because of Covid19 and with Covid19 seems to disappear from all the reports. Therefore the numbers have been inflated by who knows how much. To add to the discussion, hospitals can make financial gains by claiming Covid19 on death certificates and can make even more money by the use of ventilators on each of those cases. Why would they do that? Liken it to being a robber and entering a house. All the jewels and valuables are on a cart at the front door waiting to be hauled out, while the socks and underwear are locked up in a safe. What will you take?

Died because of Covid or with covid: Again the NDDOH has been very transparent and have differentiated the two on their website. But as an example someone with a comorbidity can be getting along quite well and then contracts Covid and dies. Without Covid they probably still would have been doing fairly well. So what killed them? Relate this to Jane Doe being in a car crash. She survives the crash but 4 days later dies of a cerebral hemorrhage in the ICU. So technically she "survived" the crash but without the trauma she probably would not have developed a fatal brain bleed. It works the same way with Covid .

As for hospital financial gains: Anyone making an argument that hospitals make more $ by claiming Covid does not understand how hospitals are reimbursed (google DRG for hospital reimbursements). When admitting a patient to hospital a physician does not just list the primary reason for admission, they list their pre-existing conditions as well because they get paid for those. Example: Jane Doe is admitted with pneumonia. She also has Hypertension, diabetes and congestive heart failure. So you can't ignore their other issues while they are hospitalized with pneumonia as they need to be addressed as well. So she will need increased lab work, frequent blood glucose checks, maybe cardiac monitoring etc while she is there which all increase costs that may have nothing specifically to do with her pneumonia. Relate that to taking your car into the shop for new tires. While there the tech notices your brake pads are shot too. So if those are replaced you will get charged for parts and labor on those as well even if you didn't come in for that reason. (hopefully with your permission first though). If they didn't charge for those the business wouldn't stay afloat for long. It works the same way with healthcare.

Regarding putting a patient on a ventilator to make more money: I don't have a concrete answer to whether or not that has happened, but any physician that uses financial gain as their decision to place a patient on a ventilator does not deserve to have a license to practice. Period.
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Re: COVID-19 and the return of HS athletics

Postby momofathletes » Thu Sep 24, 2020 5:02 pm

I stated early on, Covid19 is real. It can be devastating to elderly people and people with weak immune systems or people with underlying conditions. However, one has to ask themselves if Covid19 is worse than the financial and emotional burdens it has caused. Whether or not the deaths created by the forced actions of state governments is higher than the actual virus itself. What happens when the cure becomes worse than the problem? You may attack this if you like, but would like to keep it in a good, debatable way vs. mudslinging. 2 cents.

Is the cure worse than the problem? I don't claim to know that answer either. Time will tell . But it was predicted that rural states like ND wouldn't peak until fall. Judging from our current status I hope we are peaking now and we will be heading in the right direction soon. It probably depends on who you ask and how much you have been affected by it. If you have lost several loved ones who would otherwise be alive and well right now the answer probably differs greatly than those who haven't lost so much in lives or livelihoods. For whatever it is worth I was fine with schools opening up and making an attempt at fall sports. This virus isn't going away anytime soon so we need to be able to coexist with it as we are not the species that can just hibernate for months on end. But we cannot just carry on as we did pre-covid without any changes and expect good things to happen either. I think the return of sports has gone as planned: it is happening but not without glitches and interruptions.
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