2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Class B Girls
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Wilbur » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:40 pm

Someone beat me in staying the fact that the Minot Auditorium was the venue for B GBB for many years. I think it was the venue for State B Boys too if I'm not mistaken. Although boys could never be held there, I think it would be a good venue for girls.
A note on seeding or not seeding. If the NDHSAA would have continued the old format, the pairings this year would have been Thompson vs. LEM, Shiloh vs. Trenton, Kidder County vs. Rugby and Kindred vs. Hettinger-Scranton. You be the judge.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby BigDakota » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:01 pm

Regarding seeding, it seems to me if you are going to seed a tournament you have to seed all 8 teams. Its silly to stop at 5 or any other number for that matter. Use a formula that everyone knows beforehand how it works.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby heimer » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:49 pm

classB4ever wrote:
heimer wrote:I no longer advocate a three class system.

The system is fine. These are the best teams we have. It's what we do.


Wow. Have had many a debate with you over the years on this site. Have always enjoyed your input.
However, it seems that your change in scenery has also changed your mind on a number of things.

You were once a strong advocate for a "look" at 3-classes (while in VC). Now your opposed. Is it safe to say you jumped the fence? At VC, you pushed for 3 classes to become the big "school" on the block. Now, moving to a different area and being the big school on the block, changes your mind on 3 classes? This makes me believe you are a bit self serving or even slightly hypocritical.

May I ask what changed your mind if it's anything other the change in scenery?


First, understand that my kids don't go to school in Thompson. I have no idea what interest I'd be serving.

But, you're right to an extent. I have changed. But it is not the change of scenery. It's time, and the change if dynamic in the game.

Time: I gave up. The time was when I was active. Regions have 13 teams. They used to have 18. That loss has basically ended any hope of three classes. Its over, and I no longer care to even have the debate. Much like the seeding issue, it's clear that every school is only out for their own, and that's the problem with the inmates running the asylum.

Second, if we are to have the debate, we have to freely acknowledge the heavy lifting. In 2008, VC was the heavy lifting. Back then, I think schools had some fear of 360 kids invading their region. I don't think they fear that anymore. They would probably even tolerate taking VC as a B team with that enrollment cutoff move.

The heavy lifting is the private school issue, and we can't handle it because the privates hide at the B level and dont do what they should.........

Which, I might add, is not to play A, but to advocate for a system that allows them to compete with the advantages they have, without taking a hit from the disadvantages they would have against Minot and West Fargo. That is a small third-class that cuts a narrow middle.

One kid my friends that coaches at a Region I school told me the last three-division proposal, considered last year, did nothing to address the privates. The NDHSAA is afraid of the 1.4 lawsuit, so progress will never happen.

So, yes, I've changed. At some point, when you're a captive, you make your peace and move on. I don't know where my kids will end up in school, our life plan isn't set. My daughter is in an all-star cheer program, and loves it so much that it will likely be her "sport". Its year-round, so there's doubt she will reap the advantages of being at a larger B school. My sons physical makeup due to his premature birth will limit him to likely a wrestling career. His right eye has very poor vision, with little chance of improvement, so depth percetion, for things like basketball or baseball, will be difficult for him. Long story short: my personal life will be largely unaffected by two or three classes.

As for my professional life, when someone beats Grand Forks Central in hockey, let me know. Basketball is just one of the things I do. I will miss the semis and finals of Region II and the state A this week, as Ill be in St Paul for Minnesota hockey.

There is nothing for me to gain with either the status quo or change. I would absolutely support change, but I won't advocate for change. Did what I could. Time to move on.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby classB4ever » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:09 pm

Thanks for the clarification. Have enjoyed the 3-class debate over the years, but it truly has become a "wear you down mentality." Just not worth the fight any more with no skin in the game other than love for class B basketball. Best of luck to you and yours.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby The Schwab » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:35 pm

I agree with Heimer, if the 3-class proposal doesn’t include anything about private schools I wouldn’t be in favor of it.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby madseason » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:15 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:My thoughts after watching the tourney....

Seemed like an amazing atmosphere and something the girls tourney has lacked for quite a few years. NDHSAA needs to look at right sized venues instead of just what town is next in the rotation. The Betty, the SHAC, Jamestown, etc. should host the tournament not the football stadiums. Even the MSU dome is too big for the girls tourney. Travel argument shouldn't matter either. MN teams all travel to Mpls every year. It's state and travel will be necessary to play in the best venue.

All teams deserved to be there and I thought the seeding was about right with the process that is used. There is no east/west conspiracy. People can complain about strength of schedule for some teams, but they have never been at those schools making decisions. Money, districts, rivalries, school administration priorities, etc. all come in to play when making schedules a year in advance. The smaller schools just don't have the means to travel all over the state to play top opponents or the connections to make those matchups happen all the time. Kudos to the teams that do and travel to play the best opponents, but don't rag on the teams that can't. I can guarantee you it's not a "choice" they make to try to go undefeated to get a higher seed at the state tournament.

Still feel a third class is needed in the state. Rugby, Kindred, Thompson, Grafton, HCV, Langdon, Shiloh, FWM, etc. all basically dominate their regions. Look at the complete district/region standings in both boys/girls this year. How many big and private schools are near the top and a majority of the small schools at the bottom? People will always point out teams like Trenton are there and undefeated. But then people are complaining they shouldn't be there and seeded. Can't have it both ways. They now play in a region with almost all small schools and a very small private school. How well will this region compete at state across the board with all sports in the next few years? Will be interesting to see. Everyone saying Region 8 is weakest right now. Almost all of those teams would be in the smallest class except Stanley and New Town, and those two teams will probably dominate the region as well. Region 5 is the same with only Shiloh. Region 3 has had some great teams recently and more parity. Will it continue that way? I can tell you Region 4 will be either LEM or FWM for years to come.

Finally, the young talent in GBB is phenomenal right now. How many 8-10 graders were important contributors on many of those teams. Going to be exciting to watch in the next few years play out. Hopefully that will turn around the decline in girls participation numbers, but I don't know.
Well said. I agree 100&
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby madseason » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:23 pm

heimer wrote:
classB4ever wrote:
heimer wrote:I no longer advocate a three class system.

The system is fine. These are the best teams we have. It's what we do.


Wow. Have had many a debate with you over the years on this site. Have always enjoyed your input.
However, it seems that your change in scenery has also changed your mind on a number of things.

You were once a strong advocate for a "look" at 3-classes (while in VC). Now your opposed. Is it safe to say you jumped the fence? At VC, you pushed for 3 classes to become the big "school" on the block. Now, moving to a different area and being the big school on the block, changes your mind on 3 classes? This makes me believe you are a bit self serving or even slightly hypocritical.

May I ask what changed your mind if it's anything other the change in scenery?


First, understand that my kids don't go to school in Thompson. I have no idea what interest I'd be serving.

But, you're right to an extent. I have changed. But it is not the change of scenery. It's time, and the change if dynamic in the game.

Time: I gave up. The time was when I was active. Regions have 13 teams. They used to have 18. That loss has basically ended any hope of three classes. Its over, and I no longer care to even have the debate. Much like the seeding issue, it's clear that every school is only out for their own, and that's the problem with the inmates running the asylum.

Second, if we are to have the debate, we have to freely acknowledge the heavy lifting. In 2008, VC was the heavy lifting. Back then, I think schools had some fear of 360 kids invading their region. I don't think they fear that anymore. They would probably even tolerate taking VC as a B team with that enrollment cutoff move.

The heavy lifting is the private school issue, and we can't handle it because the privates hide at the B level and dont do what they should.........

Which, I might add, is not to play A, but to advocate for a system that allows them to compete with the advantages they have, without taking a hit from the disadvantages they would have against Minot and West Fargo. That is a small third-class that cuts a narrow middle.

One kid my friends that coaches at a Region I school told me the last three-division proposal, considered last year, did nothing to address the privates. The NDHSAA is afraid of the 1.4 lawsuit, so progress will never happen.

So, yes, I've changed. At some point, when you're a captive, you make your peace and move on. I don't know where my kids will end up in school, our life plan isn't set. My daughter is in an all-star cheer program, and loves it so much that it will likely be her "sport". Its year-round, so there's doubt she will reap the advantages of being at a larger B school. My sons physical makeup due to his premature birth will limit him to likely a wrestling career. His right eye has very poor vision, with little chance of improvement, so depth percetion, for things like basketball or baseball, will be difficult for him. Long story short: my personal life will be largely unaffected by two or three classes.

As for my professional life, when someone beats Grand Forks Central in hockey, let me know. Basketball is just one of the things I do. I will miss the semis and finals of Region II and the state A this week, as Ill be in St Paul for Minnesota hockey.

There is nothing for me to gain with either the status quo or change. I would absolutely support change, but I won't advocate for change. Did what I could. Time to move on.
I thought Heimer was being sarcastic. I guess not :lol:
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby ninja_joe » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:23 pm

I was in attendance at all 12 games in Grand Forks at the Betty. My thoughts---
*The student cheering sections were awesome to watch as they really had fun & pulled for their team
*The crowd was electric for games 1,3, & 4 and the rest of the televised brackets. Amazing atmosphere!
*KIndred was very resilient for such a young team with two solid comeback wins in the semis & title game. Quite impressive. If this team stays together--can't imagine what these girls could be when they are Seniors.
*Rugby was a very gritty team who never blinked and gave an inch. Very impressed with their resolve & leadership from Stier & Hager. Nice job ladies. Real fun watching this team making the game be played their way
*Thompson so fluid with their cutting & team passing. Few weak spots & solid in so many ways. Team play & team work at a high level.
*Hettinger - really liked their big girl; thought she was the best post in tourney as she scored, rebounded, & played real good defense.
*Langdon - loved their solid inside game--and to see how young this team is with the size they have; they will be back as I can see how they handled 4 winds. Very disciplined and solid basketball team
*Kidder Co- great team speed; not quite as dominant the sportscaster class B polls had them picked--very capable of defeating anyone in the tourney though
*Trenton - caught a tough break in the opening round; another very young talented team with no seniors; very impressed by their work ethic & effort--not the biggest team by any means & Hove was real fun to watch--
*Shiloh - winning tradition & program; getting to a State tournament is a special accomplishment & these girls should be proud--rough game with Thompson but represented themselves well in their last two games

I would guess Kindred, Langdon, Hettinger, & Trenton have legit chances to get back next year with all the youth on their teams. Kidder Co. will be heard from & Thompson will likely be there again too. Great tournament & as a fan, it was pleasure to watch all of the teams in person. These ladies worked hard to get there. Congrats to all!
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby The Schwab » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:18 pm

Might want to include Scranton when talking about Hettinger-Scranton, a lot of their players are from Scranton as well.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby moverandshaker » Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:22 pm

ninja_joe wrote:I was in attendance at all 12 games in Grand Forks at the Betty. My thoughts---
*The student cheering sections were awesome to watch as they really had fun & pulled for their team
*The crowd was electric for games 1,3, & 4 and the rest of the televised brackets. Amazing atmosphere!
*KIndred was very resilient for such a young team with two solid comeback wins in the semis & title game. Quite impressive. If this team stays together--can't imagine what these girls could be when they are Seniors.
*Rugby was a very gritty team who never blinked and gave an inch. Very impressed with their resolve & leadership from Stier & Hager. Nice job ladies. Real fun watching this team making the game be played their way
*Thompson so fluid with their cutting & team passing. Few weak spots & solid in so many ways. Team play & team work at a high level.
*Hettinger - really liked their big girl; thought she was the best post in tourney as she scored, rebounded, & played real good defense.
*Langdon - loved their solid inside game--and to see how young this team is with the size they have; they will be back as I can see how they handled 4 winds. Very disciplined and solid basketball team
*Kidder Co- great team speed; not quite as dominant the sportscaster class B polls had them picked--very capable of defeating anyone in the tourney though
*Trenton - caught a tough break in the opening round; another very young talented team with no seniors; very impressed by their work ethic & effort--not the biggest team by any means & Hove was real fun to watch--
*Shiloh - winning tradition & program; getting to a State tournament is a special accomplishment & these girls should be proud--rough game with Thompson but represented themselves well in their last two games

I would guess Kindred, Langdon, Hettinger, & Trenton have legit chances to get back next year with all the youth on their teams. Kidder Co. will be heard from & Thompson will likely be there again too. Great tournament & as a fan, it was pleasure to watch all of the teams in person. These ladies worked hard to get there. Congrats to all!

I agree 100%. This was a very fun tournament to watch in person, the atmosphere was amazing. We are definitely going to be seeing many of these young talented teams for a couple years to come. The Betty rocked!
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby maddog1971 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:28 am

The Betty was rocking.... I am favor of the tournament staying there. It was so loud for so many games. Great seats great view. I enjoyed my time there link no other girls tournament. If I had a vote... Betty all the way. If you ask the girls and teams themselves, I don't think any of them would argue.
Seedings???? Who cares. They have to play who they have to play. Do I think it should have been Thompson and Kindred on the last night. Yes I do. You have to play who ever they throw in front of you.

Yes the East was better this year.... the West was better last year.....

Also yes the Kindred, Thompson's and others have been there recently.... but they have put the work in. Many of these girls play 6 months a year and are lifting and staying in shape. Working on getting faster and stronger. and they have been doing it since 3 grade. Saying the smaller towns can not do that is BS. Any parent can start a travel team. It takes lots of time, money and commitment. Stop complaining about the schools getting to state and start getting your kids ready.
Basketball is only 5 players at a time. It does not matter how big your school is.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby winner-within » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:47 am

There is no such thing as East and West (except the geography side of it) in ND Class B Basketball
there is in fact, in ND Class A Basketball but not in Class B, this is Proven when some teams that have went to Super Region Format now, and get a shot at a Dickinson Trinity or a Bishop Ryan game on their regular season schedule.......and yes all Class B ball should be in Super Region Format (mandatory) and no District play.....

Great Great Girls Tournament! they deserve a standing ovation for their heart and determination and class!!
some very good programs.........
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby classB4ever » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:57 am

maddog1971 wrote:
Basketball is only 5 players at a time. It does not matter how big your school is.


Really? Then I say we go to a 1 class system. Would make everything simpler. End all these arguments. Make scheduling easier, less travel, ease the burden of arenas to play in. Give us a chance for that "Hoosier" euphoria.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby airmail » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:00 pm

So much fun this past weekend. A few thoughts that I'll throw out there - most have been said.

The Betty:
The staff there continually learned how to deal with the small stuff as the weekend went along. Things like having a north-south access to concessions behind the east seating area, and extra ticket scanner now and then, etc. all seemed to get better. If anyone doesn't like it - well - too bad. NDHSAA and the coaches are gushing over the atmosphere and venue... it's all but a lock for the 2021. I will definitely be there whether my favorite team is in it or not. :cough: state-class-b-volleyball? :cough:
Some press on the matter:
https://www.grandforksherald.com/sports ... tournament

The Seedings:
Since there's a devoted thread on the issue, I'll keep it short. If there was collusion in the coaches rankings of Kindred, then the system is broken and it needs to get blown up. In the end, I think the best teams competed for first, second, third, fourth and fifth place. The bracket kind of worked itself out; it was just a matter of which night your heart got broken.

The Teams:
Shilo - Trenton: Get out there and schedule some teams from around the state if you can, take part in some tournaments, and build your programs. No shame at all, keep building.

H-S and KC: You represented well and have a lot of talent on your teams. Well done. I'm curious as to the impact the injured players from H-S might have made. Too bad, but just the way it goes sometimes.

L-E-M: Expect to see these girls back... no seniors on this year's team. I think they have to go deeper than six if they're going to make a serious run at the title... that may have been their achilles heel.

Thompson: Easily the most balanced and unselfish team in the tournament. Fun to watch them move the ball, but a shame to lose the same game in basically the same situation two years running. Gotta figure out how to finish that. Voted scariest team in the state if they'd ever get someone over 6' on the team.

Rugby: I didn't give them credit before the tournament, but I'll eat crow now. Senior leadership was alive and well. These girls brought so much heart to the floor and just about pulled it off. I was cheering loud and was legitimately sad for them when it didn't go their way. Congrats to coaches too on a good game plan and having your team ready to compete at a very high level.

Kindred: I can't even believe what these girls are doing at such a young age. Pretty consistent play, strong post moves, and icy veins on the outside shots to put them in position to win. I think they probably had the most talented player on the floor - #5 is the kind of kid we don't get to see very often. Without going into details at a kid's expense, I'll say that you are (whether fair or not) held to a particular standard when you have that much talent. It's a shame that I don't enjoy watching this athlete play the way others do. The body language and other actions are much too much for me. For that matter, mom and dad can use a little lesson in sportsmanship as well.
All of that said - see you guys next year. Kindred has the tools and they know how to use them. End of story.

Repeat Teams:
There always seems to be some animosity with teams that make it to the tournament more than once in a while. The most basic fact is that some schools have teams, and some build programs. Teams are a special group of kids that put it all together at the right time and make a run. Programs have had the wheels in motion for 8 years - with the goal of getting to this tournament. Kindred and Thompson, I believe are the perfect examples of programs with a lot of time, commitment, and buy-in from coaches, parents, and players. Maddog1971 kind of nailed what those kids are doing. If you want to be at the dance consistently, that's one way to chase it down.

Nutshell:
Awesome tournament. Some good teams, some GREAT games, and I like watching basketball in a leather seat with cherry armrests. The over-priced popcorn bucket and coke cup were refillable, so I was fat AND happy. Well done.
Last edited by airmail on Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:09 pm

Just a FYI - Shiloh does get out and schedule quality teams...just an incredibly down year for R5...I hear their schedule next year is loaded with quality teams.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Flip » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:23 pm

I can't find it, but I thought I saw the future sites for the state tournament and it alternated between Minot and GF for the next few years.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby airmail » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:27 pm

Flip wrote:I can't find it, but I thought I saw the future sites for the state tournament and it alternated between Minot and GF for the next few years.

I thought that was the case too - I edited my post to reflect a tournament there in 2021. I keep forgetting it's 2019. :?
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:12 pm

airmail wrote:
Flip wrote:I can't find it, but I thought I saw the future sites for the state tournament and it alternated between Minot and GF for the next few years.

I thought that was the case too - I edited my post to reflect a tournament there in 2021. I keep forgetting it's 2019. :?


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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby vikingman » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:41 pm

Was the H-S girl that was out due to knee injury a major player for them?
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby B-oldtimer » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:06 pm

I just comment on LEM they will be deeper next year I believe and they should have been deeper this year. They lost one top players to injury for the season and they lost a girl who moved away in mid season. Second I believe they have number of girls on bench that should be factor next year but they were such a young team this year with only two juniors on the team and rest sophomores all way down to seventh graders on the varsity. The other junior on the team was girl injured for the season. LEM has good opportunity to return but nobody forgets Fourwinds who are in there region also they have very good team and they were just as young as LEM so next year is no given.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:29 pm

vikingman wrote:Was the H-S girl that was out due to knee injury a major player for them?


Yes and a senior
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby maddog1971 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:10 pm

airmail.... let's not forget that this player that you are talking about is a Freshman. Have you ever seen her complain to a Ref... say one word. Just becuz she puts her head down means nothing beside she is young. No bad attitude. Yes... some people call it flopping when she goes down to the floor but some people call it... not liking to get hit in the stomach tens times a night.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby aNDkid91 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:15 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
vikingman wrote:Was the H-S girl that was out due to knee injury a major player for them?


Yes and a senior


Oh that's so heartbreaking. :cry:
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Flip » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:18 pm

maddog1971 wrote:Yes... some people call it flopping when she goes down to the floor but some people call it... not liking to get hit in the stomach tens times a night.

you would be the first one.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby ReadyToPlay » Tue Mar 05, 2019 1:05 am

Keep an eye on Grafton in Region 2 next year. They had an overall young team this year, beat Thompson once in reg season, and lost by 3 in region final..Thompson loses some key seniors.. :?
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