2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Class B Girls
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby aNDkid91 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:35 pm

heimer wrote:Thompson loses athletes to Grand Forks, not gains.

The kids in the program are home-grown. I know them, well. Thompson sends wrestlers, state place-winners, to Red River. They don't import their talent, and the way the district is drawn, their north-end population is closer to Central than it is to Thompson. They lose plenty of kids that way.

Know something before you spew.


Same could be said to you. Quit taking pot-shots at the west region.

heimer wrote:One more thing: If you're taking shots at Grand Forks hosting the tournament, or the building causing every problem in the world, I'm also taking shots at you. Quite frankly, after this tournament, the tournament should never leave.

Why? Teams on the east don’t like to travel? Minot and Bismarck do great jobs hosting tournaments and create an awesome class B atmosphere! Just a thought here but maybe it’s not necessarily the venue but instead it’s the fans.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby heimer » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:40 pm

They create zero atmosphere for Class B girls anything.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Flip » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:42 pm

Bismarck will never be an option as long as WDA is the same weekend.

Also, not a fan of Minot. That building is a million years old.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby heimer » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:46 pm

Confirmed: People west of US 83 hate change, anything new, or anything not their way.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Region2FootballFan » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:49 pm

Is this the first championship that both head coaches are women?
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Flip » Sat Mar 02, 2019 9:55 pm

Region2FootballFan wrote:Is this the first championship that both head coaches are women?

1st time since 2018.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby The Schwab » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:07 pm

heimer wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
heimer wrote:Alright, my turn.

1) quit yer bitc#!ng about driving to Grand Forks. We have a big state. Get used to it. Not every part of our state is pasture land and pheasant hunting. I respect those things, but the state is the state.

The tournaments are spread because there are some communities that take on revenue-losing tournaments/meets, so they are guaranteed something that generates revenue. Having the girls tournament in Grand forks is a good way to get them back for hosting golf, or fine arts, or soccer, things that do not generate revenue.

I drove to Hettinger in 1997 for a blind date in a Chevy Celebrity. True story. Not a big deal. Enjoy Grand Forks.

2) it's pretty clear to me we just couldn't have a repeat of state volleyball, with an all-east semifinal. So, we found a couple of schools with big records to seed, and forced Kindred, Langdon, and Thompson into the same bracket, probably to negate that whole "wah wah wah Thompson just played in that arena no fair no fair no fair wah wah wah" crap that was going on from the moment the tournament change was announced. The best five teams in the tournament are (in no order) Kindred, Langdon, Thompson, Kidder County, and then pick em. Record is not enough to use for seeding purposes if teams play much tougher schedules than their colleagues.

There was a team at state volleyball that absolutely didn't belong there, and there is at least one team at state basketball that doesn't belong there. What this tournament has done is tell schools to stop playing meaningful games in the regular season, run your record up, and get what you can. That's a setback for the game.

3) The Betty was awesome yesterday, far more entertaining than the same crowd at the Dome or the Alerus. I'm looking forward to tonight.


In response to number 2, man it’s such a shame that they had to rig the seedings to have 2 of the best from the west regions play in the first round. We couldn’t have an all-west final like we had last year!!


If you're referring to basketball, Thompson played Medina last year in the semis. That would be a Region 2 vs 3. In what world is that an all-west semifinal.

Also, no one bitc#es and complains about an all-west semifinal, because, in the east, we realize we will have to drive to get to actual games. But imagine the pain and heartbreak of the convoy that came up from Region 7 to see all of their west comrades in the sunshine half.


That’s a shot, but whatever.

As far as Grand Forks and the Betty. Great atmosphere, I questioned before the tournament if they could hold all the people who wanted to attend. It appears to me that it did. I will always question having the state tournament in a venue that has teams driving over 6 hours. All I question is the logistics of travel and I don’t think I’m out of line for questioning that.

I live west of 83 and I’m open to change. I would love to see the state switch to seeding like they do in South Dakota. Seed everything based on the formula (that everyone knows). It then wouldn’t require you to play everyone in your region. And the state tournament should be seeded 1-8 IMO
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby aNDkid91 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:16 pm

Flip wrote:Bismarck will never be an option as long as WDA is the same weekend.

Also, not a fan of Minot. That building is a million years old.


The MSU Dome??
heimer wrote:They create zero atmosphere for Class B girls anything.


Merely your opinion.

heimer wrote:Confirmed: People west of US 83 hate change, anything new, or anything not their way.


Who said anything about hating or not open to change? You’re the one that feels that Minot creates zero atmosphere and the tournament should never leave the Betty.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby heimer » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:29 pm

aNDkid91 wrote:
Flip wrote:Bismarck will never be an option as long as WDA is the same weekend.

Also, not a fan of Minot. That building is a million years old.


The MSU Dome??

heimer wrote:They create zero atmosphere for Class B girls anything.


Merely your opinion.

heimer wrote:Confirmed: People west of US 83 hate change, anything new, or anything not their way.


Who said anything about hating or not open to change? You’re the one that feels that Minot creates zero atmosphere and the tournament should never leave the Betty.


1. Yes

2. Did you see volleyball?

3. No, you're not. Been complaining since Thursday for no good reason
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Bisonguy06 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:32 pm

There are plans to renovate the MSU dome. Whatever it is as a facility, it will be better down the road.

Folks, Heimer is simply trolling the class B board at tournament time, as usual.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby aNDkid91 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:52 pm

Yes I did see state volleyball. We were that team from the west that didn’t belong there.

I have not been complaining. I’ve been defending the west from the haters of the east.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby heimer » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:54 pm

aNDkid91 wrote:Yes I did see state volleyball. We were that team from the west that didn’t belong there.

I have not been complaining. I’ve been defending the west from the haters of the east.


Which one?

And the west hated first.

"Not fair, Thompson played there."

"Not fair, they will have to turn people away."

"Not fair, it's too far to drive."

All before I even joined the conversation.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby aNDkid91 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:55 pm

Dang...not the end that I wanted but kudos to Kindred! They will be a force to reckon with!
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby madseason » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:49 am

The Betty had its record attendance since it opened on championship night. A great game I was hoping for Rugby to win. I have a feeling Kindred will win a couple more with the young team they have.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby ndlionsfan » Sun Mar 03, 2019 9:21 am

My thoughts after watching the tourney....

Seemed like an amazing atmosphere and something the girls tourney has lacked for quite a few years. NDHSAA needs to look at right sized venues instead of just what town is next in the rotation. The Betty, the SHAC, Jamestown, etc. should host the tournament not the football stadiums. Even the MSU dome is too big for the girls tourney. Travel argument shouldn't matter either. MN teams all travel to Mpls every year. It's state and travel will be necessary to play in the best venue.

All teams deserved to be there and I thought the seeding was about right with the process that is used. There is no east/west conspiracy. People can complain about strength of schedule for some teams, but they have never been at those schools making decisions. Money, districts, rivalries, school administration priorities, etc. all come in to play when making schedules a year in advance. The smaller schools just don't have the means to travel all over the state to play top opponents or the connections to make those matchups happen all the time. Kudos to the teams that do and travel to play the best opponents, but don't rag on the teams that can't. I can guarantee you it's not a "choice" they make to try to go undefeated to get a higher seed at the state tournament.

Still feel a third class is needed in the state. Rugby, Kindred, Thompson, Grafton, HCV, Langdon, Shiloh, FWM, etc. all basically dominate their regions. Look at the complete district/region standings in both boys/girls this year. How many big and private schools are near the top and a majority of the small schools at the bottom? People will always point out teams like Trenton are there and undefeated. But then people are complaining they shouldn't be there and seeded. Can't have it both ways. They now play in a region with almost all small schools and a very small private school. How well will this region compete at state across the board with all sports in the next few years? Will be interesting to see. Everyone saying Region 8 is weakest right now. Almost all of those teams would be in the smallest class except Stanley and New Town, and those two teams will probably dominate the region as well. Region 5 is the same with only Shiloh. Region 3 has had some great teams recently and more parity. Will it continue that way? I can tell you Region 4 will be either LEM or FWM for years to come.

Finally, the young talent in GBB is phenomenal right now. How many 8-10 graders were important contributors on many of those teams. Going to be exciting to watch in the next few years play out. Hopefully that will turn around the decline in girls participation numbers, but I don't know.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby d_fense » Sun Mar 03, 2019 12:14 pm

madseason wrote:The seeding may not be perfect but would you rather they go back to picking all the teams from a hat? If you win three games you are the champs. :D


Yes
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby classB4ever » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:12 pm

heimer wrote:I no longer advocate a three class system.

The system is fine. These are the best teams we have. It's what we do.


Wow. Have had many a debate with you over the years on this site. Have always enjoyed your input.
However, it seems that your change in scenery has also changed your mind on a number of things.

You were once a strong advocate for a "look" at 3-classes (while in VC). Now your opposed. Is it safe to say you jumped the fence? At VC, you pushed for 3 classes to become the big "school" on the block. Now, moving to a different area and being the big school on the block, changes your mind on 3 classes? This makes me believe you are a bit self serving or even slightly hypocritical.

May I ask what changed your mind if it's anything other the change in scenery?
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby Wilbur » Sun Mar 03, 2019 1:40 pm

Someone beat me in staying the fact that the Minot Auditorium was the venue for B GBB for many years. I think it was the venue for State B Boys too if I'm not mistaken. Although boys could never be held there, I think it would be a good venue for girls.
A note on seeding or not seeding. If the NDHSAA would have continued the old format, the pairings this year would have been Thompson vs. LEM, Shiloh vs. Trenton, Kidder County vs. Rugby and Kindred vs. Hettinger-Scranton. You be the judge.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby BigDakota » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:01 pm

Regarding seeding, it seems to me if you are going to seed a tournament you have to seed all 8 teams. Its silly to stop at 5 or any other number for that matter. Use a formula that everyone knows beforehand how it works.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby heimer » Sun Mar 03, 2019 2:49 pm

classB4ever wrote:
heimer wrote:I no longer advocate a three class system.

The system is fine. These are the best teams we have. It's what we do.


Wow. Have had many a debate with you over the years on this site. Have always enjoyed your input.
However, it seems that your change in scenery has also changed your mind on a number of things.

You were once a strong advocate for a "look" at 3-classes (while in VC). Now your opposed. Is it safe to say you jumped the fence? At VC, you pushed for 3 classes to become the big "school" on the block. Now, moving to a different area and being the big school on the block, changes your mind on 3 classes? This makes me believe you are a bit self serving or even slightly hypocritical.

May I ask what changed your mind if it's anything other the change in scenery?


First, understand that my kids don't go to school in Thompson. I have no idea what interest I'd be serving.

But, you're right to an extent. I have changed. But it is not the change of scenery. It's time, and the change if dynamic in the game.

Time: I gave up. The time was when I was active. Regions have 13 teams. They used to have 18. That loss has basically ended any hope of three classes. Its over, and I no longer care to even have the debate. Much like the seeding issue, it's clear that every school is only out for their own, and that's the problem with the inmates running the asylum.

Second, if we are to have the debate, we have to freely acknowledge the heavy lifting. In 2008, VC was the heavy lifting. Back then, I think schools had some fear of 360 kids invading their region. I don't think they fear that anymore. They would probably even tolerate taking VC as a B team with that enrollment cutoff move.

The heavy lifting is the private school issue, and we can't handle it because the privates hide at the B level and dont do what they should.........

Which, I might add, is not to play A, but to advocate for a system that allows them to compete with the advantages they have, without taking a hit from the disadvantages they would have against Minot and West Fargo. That is a small third-class that cuts a narrow middle.

One kid my friends that coaches at a Region I school told me the last three-division proposal, considered last year, did nothing to address the privates. The NDHSAA is afraid of the 1.4 lawsuit, so progress will never happen.

So, yes, I've changed. At some point, when you're a captive, you make your peace and move on. I don't know where my kids will end up in school, our life plan isn't set. My daughter is in an all-star cheer program, and loves it so much that it will likely be her "sport". Its year-round, so there's doubt she will reap the advantages of being at a larger B school. My sons physical makeup due to his premature birth will limit him to likely a wrestling career. His right eye has very poor vision, with little chance of improvement, so depth percetion, for things like basketball or baseball, will be difficult for him. Long story short: my personal life will be largely unaffected by two or three classes.

As for my professional life, when someone beats Grand Forks Central in hockey, let me know. Basketball is just one of the things I do. I will miss the semis and finals of Region II and the state A this week, as Ill be in St Paul for Minnesota hockey.

There is nothing for me to gain with either the status quo or change. I would absolutely support change, but I won't advocate for change. Did what I could. Time to move on.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby classB4ever » Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:09 pm

Thanks for the clarification. Have enjoyed the 3-class debate over the years, but it truly has become a "wear you down mentality." Just not worth the fight any more with no skin in the game other than love for class B basketball. Best of luck to you and yours.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby The Schwab » Sun Mar 03, 2019 6:35 pm

I agree with Heimer, if the 3-class proposal doesn’t include anything about private schools I wouldn’t be in favor of it.
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby madseason » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:15 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:My thoughts after watching the tourney....

Seemed like an amazing atmosphere and something the girls tourney has lacked for quite a few years. NDHSAA needs to look at right sized venues instead of just what town is next in the rotation. The Betty, the SHAC, Jamestown, etc. should host the tournament not the football stadiums. Even the MSU dome is too big for the girls tourney. Travel argument shouldn't matter either. MN teams all travel to Mpls every year. It's state and travel will be necessary to play in the best venue.

All teams deserved to be there and I thought the seeding was about right with the process that is used. There is no east/west conspiracy. People can complain about strength of schedule for some teams, but they have never been at those schools making decisions. Money, districts, rivalries, school administration priorities, etc. all come in to play when making schedules a year in advance. The smaller schools just don't have the means to travel all over the state to play top opponents or the connections to make those matchups happen all the time. Kudos to the teams that do and travel to play the best opponents, but don't rag on the teams that can't. I can guarantee you it's not a "choice" they make to try to go undefeated to get a higher seed at the state tournament.

Still feel a third class is needed in the state. Rugby, Kindred, Thompson, Grafton, HCV, Langdon, Shiloh, FWM, etc. all basically dominate their regions. Look at the complete district/region standings in both boys/girls this year. How many big and private schools are near the top and a majority of the small schools at the bottom? People will always point out teams like Trenton are there and undefeated. But then people are complaining they shouldn't be there and seeded. Can't have it both ways. They now play in a region with almost all small schools and a very small private school. How well will this region compete at state across the board with all sports in the next few years? Will be interesting to see. Everyone saying Region 8 is weakest right now. Almost all of those teams would be in the smallest class except Stanley and New Town, and those two teams will probably dominate the region as well. Region 5 is the same with only Shiloh. Region 3 has had some great teams recently and more parity. Will it continue that way? I can tell you Region 4 will be either LEM or FWM for years to come.

Finally, the young talent in GBB is phenomenal right now. How many 8-10 graders were important contributors on many of those teams. Going to be exciting to watch in the next few years play out. Hopefully that will turn around the decline in girls participation numbers, but I don't know.
Well said. I agree 100&
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby madseason » Sun Mar 03, 2019 7:23 pm

heimer wrote:
classB4ever wrote:
heimer wrote:I no longer advocate a three class system.

The system is fine. These are the best teams we have. It's what we do.


Wow. Have had many a debate with you over the years on this site. Have always enjoyed your input.
However, it seems that your change in scenery has also changed your mind on a number of things.

You were once a strong advocate for a "look" at 3-classes (while in VC). Now your opposed. Is it safe to say you jumped the fence? At VC, you pushed for 3 classes to become the big "school" on the block. Now, moving to a different area and being the big school on the block, changes your mind on 3 classes? This makes me believe you are a bit self serving or even slightly hypocritical.

May I ask what changed your mind if it's anything other the change in scenery?


First, understand that my kids don't go to school in Thompson. I have no idea what interest I'd be serving.

But, you're right to an extent. I have changed. But it is not the change of scenery. It's time, and the change if dynamic in the game.

Time: I gave up. The time was when I was active. Regions have 13 teams. They used to have 18. That loss has basically ended any hope of three classes. Its over, and I no longer care to even have the debate. Much like the seeding issue, it's clear that every school is only out for their own, and that's the problem with the inmates running the asylum.

Second, if we are to have the debate, we have to freely acknowledge the heavy lifting. In 2008, VC was the heavy lifting. Back then, I think schools had some fear of 360 kids invading their region. I don't think they fear that anymore. They would probably even tolerate taking VC as a B team with that enrollment cutoff move.

The heavy lifting is the private school issue, and we can't handle it because the privates hide at the B level and dont do what they should.........

Which, I might add, is not to play A, but to advocate for a system that allows them to compete with the advantages they have, without taking a hit from the disadvantages they would have against Minot and West Fargo. That is a small third-class that cuts a narrow middle.

One kid my friends that coaches at a Region I school told me the last three-division proposal, considered last year, did nothing to address the privates. The NDHSAA is afraid of the 1.4 lawsuit, so progress will never happen.

So, yes, I've changed. At some point, when you're a captive, you make your peace and move on. I don't know where my kids will end up in school, our life plan isn't set. My daughter is in an all-star cheer program, and loves it so much that it will likely be her "sport". Its year-round, so there's doubt she will reap the advantages of being at a larger B school. My sons physical makeup due to his premature birth will limit him to likely a wrestling career. His right eye has very poor vision, with little chance of improvement, so depth percetion, for things like basketball or baseball, will be difficult for him. Long story short: my personal life will be largely unaffected by two or three classes.

As for my professional life, when someone beats Grand Forks Central in hockey, let me know. Basketball is just one of the things I do. I will miss the semis and finals of Region II and the state A this week, as Ill be in St Paul for Minnesota hockey.

There is nothing for me to gain with either the status quo or change. I would absolutely support change, but I won't advocate for change. Did what I could. Time to move on.
I thought Heimer was being sarcastic. I guess not :lol:
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Re: 2018-19 STATE CLASS B GBB TOURNEY

Postby ninja_joe » Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:23 pm

I was in attendance at all 12 games in Grand Forks at the Betty. My thoughts---
*The student cheering sections were awesome to watch as they really had fun & pulled for their team
*The crowd was electric for games 1,3, & 4 and the rest of the televised brackets. Amazing atmosphere!
*KIndred was very resilient for such a young team with two solid comeback wins in the semis & title game. Quite impressive. If this team stays together--can't imagine what these girls could be when they are Seniors.
*Rugby was a very gritty team who never blinked and gave an inch. Very impressed with their resolve & leadership from Stier & Hager. Nice job ladies. Real fun watching this team making the game be played their way
*Thompson so fluid with their cutting & team passing. Few weak spots & solid in so many ways. Team play & team work at a high level.
*Hettinger - really liked their big girl; thought she was the best post in tourney as she scored, rebounded, & played real good defense.
*Langdon - loved their solid inside game--and to see how young this team is with the size they have; they will be back as I can see how they handled 4 winds. Very disciplined and solid basketball team
*Kidder Co- great team speed; not quite as dominant the sportscaster class B polls had them picked--very capable of defeating anyone in the tourney though
*Trenton - caught a tough break in the opening round; another very young talented team with no seniors; very impressed by their work ethic & effort--not the biggest team by any means & Hove was real fun to watch--
*Shiloh - winning tradition & program; getting to a State tournament is a special accomplishment & these girls should be proud--rough game with Thompson but represented themselves well in their last two games

I would guess Kindred, Langdon, Hettinger, & Trenton have legit chances to get back next year with all the youth on their teams. Kidder Co. will be heard from & Thompson will likely be there again too. Great tournament & as a fan, it was pleasure to watch all of the teams in person. These ladies worked hard to get there. Congrats to all!
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