Flip wrote:Every year it seems like more teams struggle to get girls to play basketball. I'm curious how many girls some teams have playing out of their 9-12 grades and if they have low numbers how are they making JV games work if they are even playing JV.
Some I've heard or seen.
Linton-HMB 12 - in grades 9-12 (maybe some 8th graders?)
Strasburg 11 - in grades 9-12
Napoleon GS 10 - in grades 9-12, then they added 3 8th graders.
South Border 11 - in grades 9-12
Run4Fun2009 wrote:Flip wrote:Every year it seems like more teams struggle to get girls to play basketball. I'm curious how many girls some teams have playing out of their 9-12 grades and if they have low numbers how are they making JV games work if they are even playing JV.
Some I've heard or seen.
Linton-HMB 12 - in grades 9-12 (maybe some 8th graders?)
Strasburg 11 - in grades 9-12
Napoleon GS 10 - in grades 9-12, then they added 3 8th graders.
South Border 11 - in grades 9-12
I've heard Region 1 is really down as well.
bingobangobongo wrote:Run4Fun2009 wrote:Flip wrote:Every year it seems like more teams struggle to get girls to play basketball. I'm curious how many girls some teams have playing out of their 9-12 grades and if they have low numbers how are they making JV games work if they are even playing JV.
Some I've heard or seen.
Linton-HMB 12 - in grades 9-12 (maybe some 8th graders?)
Strasburg 11 - in grades 9-12
Napoleon GS 10 - in grades 9-12, then they added 3 8th graders.
South Border 11 - in grades 9-12
I've heard Region 1 is really down as well.
Northern Cass moved four 7th graders to JV and three other 7th graders to the C team because of low numbers, and they are not a very small school.
maddog1971 wrote:So yes numbers are problems. Coaches see the talent coming up and they bring them up and play them. Then the Juniors or even seniors quit. So basically if your 8th Grader is just as good as your senior.... play your senior. Play your 8th Grader JV.... That is why kids are quitting. Kids have played all the way with their classmates and friend and then you throw some young kid in the mix and they make mistakes but don't take the butt chewing you do because ..... they are young... really? If you going to play them treat them the same. There are tons of examples of truly talented 7th or 8th Graders but that is a handfull a year.
sportsnut5 wrote:It is important to have some loyalty to the juniors and seniors in your program, but that loyalty cannot be at the expense of your program. If an 8th grader and senior are equal, then the upside is so much higher for that 8th grader by the end of the season. The senior has a huge advantage in earning that playing time. They have had at least 4 years in the system to improve and show that they deserve the playing time. Age is only a number, playing time should not be decided on your age. It should be determined by the skill level on the floor which is developed year round.
It is a very fine line however. If the coach rushes the 8th grader along, then their development can be halted as well. I have seen many a young player play at the varsity level, become a very valuable role player, but when it is their turn to be the leader, they never reach their potential because at no level were they the alpha dog or better put, never given a greater role. Giving those young players time at the JV level can allow them to take risks and grow as players.
I think the game has become much better with more skilled players on the floor at all age levels. Many players play summer ball and put more time in during the off season. What we are seeing with less participation is that players cannot just pick up a ball during the season and be competitive anymore. This is why we have more blowouts, which in turn makes for less participation. A combination of can't compete and don't want to invest the time.
sportsnut5 wrote:It is important to have some loyalty to the juniors and seniors in your program, but that loyalty cannot be at the expense of your program. If an 8th grader and senior are equal, then the upside is so much higher for that 8th grader by the end of the season. The senior has a huge advantage in earning that playing time. They have had at least 4 years in the system to improve and show that they deserve the playing time. Age is only a number, playing time should not be decided on your age. It should be determined by the skill level on the floor which is developed year round.
It is a very fine line however. If the coach rushes the 8th grader along, then their development can be halted as well. I have seen many a young player play at the varsity level, become a very valuable role player, but when it is their turn to be the leader, they never reach their potential because at no level were they the alpha dog or better put, never given a greater role. Giving those young players time at the JV level can allow them to take risks and grow as players.
I think the game has become much better with more skilled players on the floor at all age levels. Many players play summer ball and put more time in during the off season. What we are seeing with less participation is that players cannot just pick up a ball during the season and be competitive anymore. This is why we have more blowouts, which in turn makes for less participation. A combination of can't compete and don't want to invest the time.
packers21 wrote:maddog1971 wrote:So yes numbers are problems. Coaches see the talent coming up and they bring them up and play them. Then the Juniors or even seniors quit. So basically if your 8th Grader is just as good as your senior.... play your senior. Play your 8th Grader JV.... That is why kids are quitting. Kids have played all the way with their classmates and friend and then you throw some young kid in the mix and they make mistakes but don't take the butt chewing you do because ..... they are young... really? If you going to play them treat them the same. There are tons of examples of truly talented 7th or 8th Graders but that is a handfull a year.
Say I have an equally talented 8th grader and senior. I would start the year in favor of the experience and work in the younger player, if the younger player proves they are ready for more minutes then I give them more and more if they are helping the team compete at a higher level. I think it is more important to give the younger players the 6 quarters (minutes) a night than it is to start them over someone. As for mistakes you are wrong, a Senior shouldn't be making the same mistakes as an 8th grader. They both need to be corrected but as a coach I am going to have a much shorter lease on a player making the same mistakes as a senior compared to when they are a 8th grader. Just bc you have been playing with your friends for a set number of years and now you guys are seniors together doesn't mean you should be starting and playing together. I think this is harder on the girls side than the boys. You do not see the number of JH boys as you do on the girls side.
maddog1971 wrote:packers21 wrote:maddog1971 wrote:So yes numbers are problems. Coaches see the talent coming up and they bring them up and play them. Then the Juniors or even seniors quit. So basically if your 8th Grader is just as good as your senior.... play your senior. Play your 8th Grader JV.... That is why kids are quitting. Kids have played all the way with their classmates and friend and then you throw some young kid in the mix and they make mistakes but don't take the butt chewing you do because ..... they are young... really? If you going to play them treat them the same. There are tons of examples of truly talented 7th or 8th Graders but that is a handfull a year.
Say I have an equally talented 8th grader and senior. I would start the year in favor of the experience and work in the younger player, if the younger player proves they are ready for more minutes then I give them more and more if they are helping the team compete at a higher level. I think it is more important to give the younger players the 6 quarters (minutes) a night than it is to start them over someone. As for mistakes you are wrong, a Senior shouldn't be making the same mistakes as an 8th grader. They both need to be corrected but as a coach I am going to have a much shorter lease on a player making the same mistakes as a senior compared to when they are a 8th grader. Just bc you have been playing with your friends for a set number of years and now you guys are seniors together doesn't mean you should be starting and playing together. I think this is harder on the girls side than the boys. You do not see the number of JH boys as you do on the girls side.
So I can not disagree more. If an 8th grader has the same talent as a senior and is taking time away from the kid who has invested his whole HS career.... then that 8th grader needs to held to a higher standard. Most of the time these kids want to play with their friends. I would rather have 5 kids on the floor player for each other and as a team. How many times to you see the older kids not make the pass to the younger kid..... team chemistry is very important.
How many coaches are talking to players and getting them excited for the season.... building their program. Not very many. These kids in ND right now are being developed by parents of travel ball teams.
ProudPirate wrote:Schwabe there are no rules anymore. I have personally witnessed full practices being done in the summer months along with the 'league' games by the head coaches. So do this 2x a week for BB & 2x a week for Volleyball. Doesn't leave much time for them to be kids. Throw in some team camps on weekends. I wouldn't want to play either. And YES i have spoken directly with the NDHSAA about this and their response was we will NOT enforce any summer rules at the state level and we all know, god forbid the school admin will do anything about BB.
Lots of things surrounding fewer players, it's really not 1 thing, but little more freedom wouldn't hurt.
sportsnut5 wrote:Maddog, you used a key word in your statement. Invested. If that senior is invested, then yes they should and will play in most programs. However, many times they have invested little time to improve. Hence, they are less skilled than an 8th grader.
Your comments on coaches in ND is a bunch of hogwash. The coaches that I know invest a huge amount of time and energy in the kids with their program. If you were ever a coach that statement would never have come out of your mouth as you have no idea the commitment most of these coaches make. Coaches are held accountable for the success of their local teams and often take a great deal of heat. Much of which is based on the commitment of teenagers. When teenagers commit, you had better reward them regardless if age.
maddog1971 wrote:sportsnut5 wrote:Maddog, you used a key word in your statement. Invested. If that senior is invested, then yes they should and will play in most programs. However, many times they have invested little time to improve. Hence, they are less skilled than an 8th grader.
Your comments on coaches in ND is a bunch of hogwash. The coaches that I know invest a huge amount of time and energy in the kids with their program. If you were ever a coach that statement would never have come out of your mouth as you have no idea the commitment most of these coaches make. Coaches are held accountable for the success of their local teams and often take a great deal of heat. Much of which is based on the commitment of teenagers. When teenagers commit, you had better reward them regardless if age.
Hogwash? Well I have coached for 15 years and I do see quite a bit of coaches not spend the time on their program. Granted they get paid penny's per hour they spend working with kids and have other jobs and commitments. But coaches need to work with the kids to get them to commit and when they do put the work and time in... they should be rewarded with time on the court. Building good people should be the main goal.
I agree if a senior comes in and has not picked a ball up from last season and is bad... and the 8th grader is better and has been putting in time to get better... yes play the 8th grader... but this BS that they are the same but the 8th grader you think has more potential over the long run is BS.
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