Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby Rivershark » Fri May 04, 2018 10:10 am

Looking at the list of past State Champions, it wasn't too long ago that Cavalier won the state title 3 years in a row from 2002-2004. Now they are struggling to stay out of the bottom of the Region. The same can be said for Drayton and their strong history of baseball. What's going on with baseball and why are some teams excelling while others are rapidly declining. I'm sure some people will think that families are spending more time at the lakes, but that can't be said for all teams.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby packers21 » Mon May 07, 2018 9:38 am

Rivershark wrote:Looking at the list of past State Champions, it wasn't too long ago that Cavalier won the state title 3 years in a row from 2002-2004. Now they are struggling to stay out of the bottom of the Region. The same can be said for Drayton and their strong history of baseball. What's going on with baseball and why are some teams excelling while others are rapidly declining. I'm sure some people will think that families are spending more time at the lakes, but that can't be said for all teams.


Not many ppl are going to the lake in March April and the beginning of May. I would say its a variety of things and each school varies. In Cavalier most of the best athletes don't even play baseball anymore, Drayton is getting smaller and smaller but they did play in a Region Championship a few years ago. Then there are the kids that wold rather sit at home and play games.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon May 07, 2018 10:51 am

I would also say the popularity of baseball is rapidly declining in the youth. Doesn't seem like much follow the MLB anymore and if they have free time it's used to play basketball instead of getting people together to play baseball or even just catch or BP. Big difference from the 80s and 90s.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby steel » Mon May 07, 2018 11:26 am

I would say that other teams in the region are playing alot more Babe Ruth and Legion baseball, like Langdon, PRFL, Grafton while Cavalier hasn't had a team for over 10 years and many years the path to the state was blocked by Grafton who was loaded. Today it all comes down to pitching and the number of good arms you can throw with pitch counts and having talent doesn't hurt also. The old saying, You get out of it, what you put into it rings true. Summer baseball helps make spring champions.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby classB4ever » Tue May 08, 2018 10:36 am

Numbers. Baseball, golf and track all going on at the same time.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby B-oldtimer » Sun May 13, 2018 11:36 am

Cavalier not having summer program for baseball I believe is there problem for not being more competitive in baseball. You can't produce a baseball team without having kids that play baseball in the summer. High school season is to short and usually not played in best of conditions for baseball. Cavalier community just hasn't invested in summer baseball I think it has something to do with parents now want to go to lake and summer baseball interferes with this. I find it ironic that baseball is sport for a lot of kids because size doesn't matter as much its more hand eye coordination and thinking man's game where a lot of kids can do quite well at if they play the game regularly you don't have to be tall or large to play baseball as you do with basketball and football. The Cavalier Area with Walhalla, Neche, and Pembina to draw kids from should be able to come up with numbers to have both Baberuth and legion baseball between those towns there are over 250 kids in high school so there should be more than enough to have baseball team.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby Flip » Sun May 13, 2018 8:23 pm

If you're a a serious baseball player what are you more proud of: a state legion title or a state HS title?
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby NDPREP » Mon May 14, 2018 10:21 am

Used to be Legion until they split up the classes, now winning HS is more important to the kids. Since they split up some of the talent, there is more of the B champ would have beat the A champ sort of talk, or they won the B but I don't think they would have done as well at the A tournament.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby B-oldtimer » Wed May 16, 2018 9:56 am

I don't believe that because its still a honor win the state legion tournament. When they have let both A and B play in the regional tournaments our teams have done quite well with each division holding its own. What you're saying then double AA is only legion tournament that counts because of it being of the largest towns. All I will say is get over this split of A and B legion because it has been good for baseball but biggest complaint has been from A teams that don't go to state quite as often as they used too. Both divisions have there followers and these teams still play each other in the regular season it has been good thing for small town baseball in this state.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby Sportsrube » Wed May 16, 2018 11:39 am

B-oldtimer wrote:I don't believe that because its still a honor win the state legion tournament. When they have let both A and B play in the regional tournaments our teams have done quite well with each division holding its own. What you're saying then double AA is only legion tournament that counts because of it being of the largest towns. All I will say is get over this split of A and B legion because it has been good for baseball but biggest complaint has been from A teams that don't go to state quite as often as they used too. Both divisions have there followers and these teams still play each other in the regular season it has been good thing for small town baseball in this state.


Could not agree more. The biggest difference I have noticed between the A Teams and the B Teams is in the depth of the pitching staffs (With some exceptions) and at the bottom of the order or the bench. A number of B teams are playing much younger kids at the bottom of the order than the A teams are, but splitting them is good for Legion baseball.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby NDPREP » Fri May 18, 2018 7:43 am

I'm not saying I believe that either way, what I am telling you is I am around a lot of teams and the kids talk that way. Over the past 10 years the talk has shifted to HS ball, used to be they were excited for legion now HS takes precedence and is the driving factor. It is an honor to win it but they would rather win the HS one, not to mention it gets more press.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby Bull Herbie » Wed May 23, 2018 7:38 am

What about the coaches? Is winning in the high school season more or less important than summer ball? From what I seen in region 6, it's more important to get the coach's summer players as much time as possible, even if they are sick, hurt or just ineffective. The ones that seemed to care the most were the seniors (who in my opinion were let down), juniors and assistants.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby ballaholic#3 » Wed May 23, 2018 12:29 pm

I'm involved in the game and I believe that this is indisputable: 1. The best baseball is played in June and July
2. Legion does a better job of crowning the best team due to double-elimination format
3. Media coverage of high school baseball is better which makes it appear more glamorous because of school affiliation
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby NDPREP » Wed May 23, 2018 12:59 pm

How many coaches actually coach both anymore? I know of a few but I would think its about 50/50 now a days.

Double elimination I think does produce the actual best team BUT you definitely don't get a Cinderella team in the tournament like Mayport winning it a few years back in HS class B where they hit themselves to a championship. Double Elims tend to favor the teams with the most quality pitching depth.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby pakkyzoo » Thu May 24, 2018 8:21 am

NDPREP wrote:How many coaches actually coach both anymore? I know of a few but I would think its about 50/50 now a days.

Double elimination I think does produce the actual best team BUT you definitely don't get a Cinderella team in the tournament like Mayport winning it a few years back in HS class B where they hit themselves to a championship. Double Elims tend to favor the teams with the most quality pitching depth.

Doesn't the new pitching regulations eliminate a cinderella team anyways?

I have coached both high school for the past 4 years and legion for 10 years. The legion tournament is a much bigger deal IMO. The opening ceremony and other events that take place. Also BEK sports had done a great job of televising the Class B legion tournament. Also tougher to win legion because of college players returning.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Thu May 24, 2018 8:48 am

pakkyzoo wrote:
NDPREP wrote:Double elimination I think does produce the actual best team BUT you definitely don't get a Cinderella team in the tournament like Mayport winning it a few years back in HS class B where they hit themselves to a championship. Double Elims tend to favor the teams with the most quality pitching depth.

Doesn't the new pitching regulations eliminate a cinderella team anyways?


With double elim and pitching regulations, nearly impossible for Cinderella team to advance to state.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby ballaholic#3 » Thu May 24, 2018 9:36 am

Is that a bad thing that there is no "Cinderella"as you say? Actually, if teams hit anybody can win as everyone runs out of pitching at the end. But to me, I like when the best team wins and not just the one who gets hot in a single-elimination format.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Thu May 24, 2018 10:43 am

ballaholic#3 wrote:Is that a bad thing that there is no "Cinderella"as you say? Actually, if teams hit anybody can win as everyone runs out of pitching at the end. But to me, I like when the best team wins and not just the one who gets hot in a single-elimination format.


Enderlin/MV was the 4-seed out of R1...knocked off #1 and #2 (twice - best of 3 series) en route to making State. They’d fill the ‘Cinderella shoes’ for this year...not many major upsets in other regions because there was such a drastic difference between top & bottom
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 4:03 pm

ballaholic#3 wrote:Is that a bad thing that there is no "Cinderella"as you say? Actually, if teams hit anybody can win as everyone runs out of pitching at the end.


Tough question. Have seen dominant pitchers who can completely shut down another team. If they were allowed to pitch 2 games out of a 3 game tourney, who's to say they are not the better team? Put a couple of runs on the board and ride the arm. That's why it's not an easy answer IMHO. The pitch count rules are a safety necessity but not every kid is built the same either. Have seen kids have to leave the game for pitch count but turn around and catch or play short stop. Still making a lot of throws. Of course not the same type of throws, but you get my point. Will they make it mandatory for them not to be able to re-enter the game for arm safety reasons? Just playing devil's advocate.

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
Enderlin/MV was the 4-seed out of R1...knocked off #1 and #2 (twice - best of 3 series) en route to making State. They’d fill the ‘Cinderella shoes’ for this year...not many major upsets in other regions because there was such a drastic difference between top & bottom


Agree with above bold, but it also lends credence to single elim giving it more of a chance to happen. Believe R1 is the only region with single elim, granted only up to championship.

Here is an example of something that happened. Team A played Team B 2 times during the regular season. Team B beat Team A both times throwing their ace. In opening round of regional tourney, Team A and Team B played one another. Team B threw their ace and beat Team A again. Team A went through double elim tourney and met Team B again for championship and beat them twice as Team B's ace had used up pitches. Team B beat Team A 3-2 during the year, but team A goes to state. Who's the better team?

ballaholic#3 wrote:But to me, I like when the best team wins and not just the one who gets hot in a single-elimination format.


So, then I am assuming you think all regionals should be double elim and the state tourney should be double elim as well?
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby madseason » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:22 pm

classB4ever wrote:Numbers. Baseball, golf and track all going on at the same time.
My son played baseball and was in track. He had to decide which to go to if there was a conflict. He could have played golf too If he really wanted to get complicated :)
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby madseason » Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:26 pm

ballaholic#3 wrote:I'm involved in the game and I believe that this is indisputable: 1. The best baseball is played in June and July
2. Legion does a better job of crowning the best team due to double-elimination format
3. Media coverage of high school baseball is better which makes it appear more glamorous because of school affiliation
This is 100% right
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby classB4ever » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:19 pm

madseason wrote:
classB4ever wrote:Numbers. Baseball, golf and track all going on at the same time.
My son played baseball and was in track. He had to decide which to go to if there was a conflict. He could have played golf too If he really wanted to get complicated :)


That's great. Many coaches won't allow kids to skip practices/games in one sport to participate in another.
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Re: Cavalier and Surrounding Area Baseball

Postby madseason » Wed Aug 01, 2018 6:21 pm

classB4ever wrote:
madseason wrote:
classB4ever wrote:Numbers. Baseball, golf and track all going on at the same time.
My son played baseball and was in track. He had to decide which to go to if there was a conflict. He could have played golf too If he really wanted to get complicated :)


That's great. Many coaches won't allow kids to skip practices/games in one sport to participate in another.
Track is different IMO. The coaches want the fastest, strongest on their team to make it to State. The more kids you have make state the better coach you are :)
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