Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Class B Girls
Forum rules
Please do not post just to complain about players, coaches, teams, officials, fans, or anyone else. Lets all try to demonstrate the spirit of good sportsmanship. Posts may be edited or deleted that do not comply.

Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby BBfan4life » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:23 pm

Here is some food for thought. Eliminate the Regional 3/4 place game because it means nothing. There isn't a lot of effort and both teams are always sulking because they are eliminated. My idea; have Region 1,2,3,and 4 play the championship game on Saturday afternoon of the regional week and play it at the same venue..4 great games and will be well attended at say the fargo civic or Jamestown. Play the Regional 5,6,7, and 8 at like Bismarck or Dickinson. Similar format as the Football championships. To avoid any team from gaining an advantage from playing at these venues allow all the teams a practice time on Friday to get used to the gym and rims etc. This use to happen back in the 80's and 90's. I was told someone from Edgeley in the 3rd place game lost a tooth last night. What a waste of losing a tooth for a 3rd place trophy. Any thoughts?
BBfan4life
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2017 8:23 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby sportsfan111 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:35 pm

Fantastic idea. Nobody wants to play/watch the 3rd place game.
sportsfan111
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 9:43 pm

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby packers21 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:42 pm

BBfan4life wrote:Here is some food for thought. Eliminate the Regional 3/4 place game because it means nothing. There isn't a lot of effort and both teams are always sulking because they are eliminated. My idea; have Region 1,2,3,and 4 play the championship game on Saturday afternoon of the regional week and play it at the same venue..4 great games and will be well attended at say the fargo civic or Jamestown. Play the Regional 5,6,7, and 8 at like Bismarck or Dickinson. Similar format as the Football championships. To avoid any team from gaining an advantage from playing at these venues allow all the teams a practice time on Friday to get used to the gym and rims etc. This use to happen back in the 80's and 90's. I was told someone from Edgeley in the 3rd place game lost a tooth last night. What a waste of losing a tooth for a 3rd place trophy. Any thoughts?


It was only half a tooth
It is a little harder to motivate kids I guess because they’ve been pampered so much. We’re in the trophy generation, give ‘em a trophy for 23rd place, make ‘em feel good. Make mom and dad feel good.” Tom Izzo, Michigan State Basketball
packers21
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 764
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 10:55 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby The Schwab » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:58 pm

As a fan I would love the idea, getting to watch 4 championship games in one place, that sounds amazing! The NDHSAA will never go for it because of money. If you keep them at different locations with the 3/4 game you will have a far bigger gate between the 8 regionals. Great idea in theory and for fans, but doesn't have the $$$ behind it.
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Feb 23, 2018 4:16 pm

Like the idea, but 4 games in one night might be a bit much. Would rather have four sites with 2 championship games at each site. Less of a distance to travel for the common fan as well as the team fans.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3681
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby Thundersnow » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:51 am

I really like the idea of 4 locations hosting back-to-back regional championships. I'd be in favor of a system like this:

Rotate Regions 1&3 between Fargo and Valley City or Jamestown
Rotate Regions 2&4 between Grand Forks and Devils Lake
Rotate Regions 5&7 between Bismarck and Dickinson
Rotate Regions 6&8 between Minot and Williston.

Speaking strictly for the basketball and atmosphere, this would be a huge improvement. I suppose the NDHSAA wouldn't get as big of a payday though?
Thundersnow
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:15 pm

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby ProudPirate » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:10 am

I agree I think it would be great event & good for the sport but you're right the NDHSAA would never allow it. It's all about the money. Look what they did to softball by taking apart a great Class A/B state tourney so now they can charge more & claim it's better attended when everyone who's there knows it's not. They combine VB state so they can save money although I personally like having them both together.
I like the 2 game format vs 4 but as a region 1 dude I'd prefer Science & Jamestown to Fargo. The SHAC is a great venue now but Fargo really doesn't care if it's there or not where I believe the other 2 communities would.
ProudPirate
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:36 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby B-oldtimer » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:00 pm

I may be old fashioned but like the present format. In the past the 3 and 4 place game started slow but when you got to 3 and 4 quarters level competition picked up game started mean something from pride and not wanting to loose. I know now it means less to schools today but it also goes to fact that final four of the regions in class b has been usually same 5 or 6 teams playing there year in year out. Second thing was having championship played on same floor that they had played on for two nights and having a day rest its like having two teams playing on there home floor. The shooting is better for championship game and just familiarity of the floor really helps your players.
The going to bigger and farther site may be good for the die heart fans but its not class b where it was always about small town schools playing in the region where they play there basketball. I think it keeps the casual fans and families from small towns willing to make a trip to see there team play. I may be dead wrong on this but I have known a lot of families if distance and costs become to much they just skip it especially if they are not personally involved.
B-oldtimer
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 375
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 4:14 pm

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby Flip » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:17 pm

Someone came up with an idea to play an all star game prior to the championship game. I kind of like that idea. Play one district vs the other. Obviously, have some alternates because some of your all stars will be in the championship game.
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 3691
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby Sniper » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:32 pm

I think one problem for having two or more region championship games in one place would be travel. Usually regionals are held in a semi-central location. I do not think teams should have to sit on a bus for multiple hours to play their regional championship. For example if Bowman and Hettinger-Scranton played in a regional championship held in Bismarck they would both travel over two and a half hours.

As for the third place game, I don’t think giving the athletes one more game is a bad thing. They only get one chance to compete in high school basketball so awarding the teams who advanced to the final four of their region with two guaranteed games does not bother me. It’s up to the athletes to choose how hard they want to compete. If you do not want to watch a sort of “meaningless” game then show up after and just watch the championship game.
Sniper
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:30 am
Location: Bismarck, ND

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby airmail » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:54 am

Sniper wrote:As for the third place game, I don’t think giving the athletes one more game is a bad thing. They only get one chance to compete in high school basketball so awarding the teams who advanced to the final four of their region with two guaranteed games does not bother me. It’s up to the athletes to choose how hard they want to compete. If you do not want to watch a sort of “meaningless” game then show up after and just watch the championship game.


I agree. Some athletes, seniors especially, will embrace knowing that "this is it", and want to give it one final shot. I've never minded the third place games, I guess.
airmail
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 5:47 pm

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby classB4ever » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:06 pm

Flip wrote:Someone came up with an idea to play an all star game prior to the championship game. I kind of like that idea. Play one district vs the other. Obviously, have some alternates because some of your all stars will be in the championship game.


Like this idea except they wouldn't have time to practice, etc. on such short notice. What about having contests: 3 point shooting, free throws, speed relay dribbling, etc. Each district's all-district teams going against one another. Could really get the place rocking leading up to championship game. Would get all the towns involved as well.
classB4ever
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:20 pm

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby boblee » Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:53 pm

Being a Minnesota guy, I'd love to see the elimination of the 3rd/4th place game. Since that isn't going to happen, I'd like to see coaches use it to play some of the older kids on the roster that don't play a ton during the stretch drive. I suppose it comes down to the philosophy of how you run your program.

Minnesota does a lot of things really, really well that whenever they get brought up in North Dakota people whine about travel. For ONE DAY it shouldn't be a big deal.

If Region 1 & Region 2 played their title games at 6 PM and 8 PM at the SHAC on a Thursday or Friday night, you'd get a great crowd. Because it only happens one time.

The all-star thing won't ever fly with the current NDHSAA setup. Based on current rules, do play in an all-star game you'd have to be a senior and all the high school sports would have to be over otherwise you'd lose eligibility. That's why VB/BB/FB/SB all play their all-star games in June or July.
boblee
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:24 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby Sniper » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:38 pm

boblee wrote:Being a Minnesota guy, I'd love to see the elimination of the 3rd/4th place game. Since that isn't going to happen, I'd like to see coaches use it to play some of the older kids on the roster that don't play a ton during the stretch drive. I suppose it comes down to the philosophy of how you run your program.

Minnesota does a lot of things really, really well that whenever they get brought up in North Dakota people whine about travel. For ONE DAY it shouldn't be a big deal.

If Region 1 & Region 2 played their title games at 6 PM and 8 PM at the SHAC on a Thursday or Friday night, you'd get a great crowd. Because it only happens one time.

The all-star thing won't ever fly with the current NDHSAA setup. Based on current rules, do play in an all-star game you'd have to be a senior and all the high school sports would have to be over otherwise you'd lose eligibility. That's why VB/BB/FB/SB all play their all-star games in June or July.


I believe that travel is a big deal. That “ONE DAY” is probably the biggest day in most of these kids athletic careers with a chance to be one of eight team to advance to the state tournament. Why should they have to sit on a bus for an unnecessary amount of time just because it would create a cool environment for the fans. I guess I’m just looking at it through the presepective of wanting each team to preform to their best in the biggest game which is why I’m against having a crazy long bus ride when it can be avoided.
Sniper
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:30 am
Location: Bismarck, ND

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby boblee » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:42 pm

Again - look at the successful MN model. Moorhead hockey will travel to Bemidji to play St. Michael-Albertville in the section final Wednesday night. That place will have a huge crowd and both teams will be ecstatic to play in that game and that environment.

If Grafton and Thompson have to drive to Fargo are they going to cry foul? Maybe because of the current model.
boblee
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:24 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby Sniper » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:55 am

boblee wrote:Again - look at the successful MN model. Moorhead hockey will travel to Bemidji to play St. Michael-Albertville in the section final Wednesday night. That place will have a huge crowd and both teams will be ecstatic to play in that game and that environment.

If Grafton and Thompson have to drive to Fargo are they going to cry foul? Maybe because of the current model.


What is unsuccessful about the ND model? I have never been to a region championship that didn’t have a large crowd and a great environment. I’ve never even been to a district championship where the gym wasn’t packed. My philosophy is if it isn’t broke don’t fix it.
Sniper
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 414
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:30 am
Location: Bismarck, ND

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby NDPREP » Tue Feb 27, 2018 8:27 am

ProudPirate wrote:I agree I think it would be great event & good for the sport but you're right the NDHSAA would never allow it. It's all about the money. Look what they did to softball by taking apart a great Class A/B state tourney so now they can charge more & claim it's better attended when everyone who's there knows it's not. They combine VB state so they can save money although I personally like having them both together.
I like the 2 game format vs 4 but as a region 1 dude I'd prefer Science & Jamestown to Fargo. The SHAC is a great venue now but Fargo really doesn't care if it's there or not where I believe the other 2 communities would.


Didn't they do this because of parent complaints? A lot of B towns were making softball and baseball state and since they are on the same weekend the decided to pump B softball with B baseball in the same town and like wise with the A schools?
NDPREP
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 10:04 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby boblee » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:47 am

Sniper wrote:
boblee wrote:Again - look at the successful MN model. Moorhead hockey will travel to Bemidji to play St. Michael-Albertville in the section final Wednesday night. That place will have a huge crowd and both teams will be ecstatic to play in that game and that environment.

If Grafton and Thompson have to drive to Fargo are they going to cry foul? Maybe because of the current model.


What is unsuccessful about the ND model? I have never been to a region championship that didn’t have a large crowd and a great environment. I’ve never even been to a district championship where the gym wasn’t packed. My philosophy is if it isn’t broke don’t fix it.


One could argue nothing. I'd say just eliminate the 3rd place region games and roll.
boblee
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:24 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby boblee » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:49 am

NDPREP wrote:
ProudPirate wrote:I agree I think it would be great event & good for the sport but you're right the NDHSAA would never allow it. It's all about the money. Look what they did to softball by taking apart a great Class A/B state tourney so now they can charge more & claim it's better attended when everyone who's there knows it's not. They combine VB state so they can save money although I personally like having them both together.
I like the 2 game format vs 4 but as a region 1 dude I'd prefer Science & Jamestown to Fargo. The SHAC is a great venue now but Fargo really doesn't care if it's there or not where I believe the other 2 communities would.


Didn't they do this because of parent complaints? A lot of B towns were making softball and baseball state and since they are on the same weekend the decided to pump B softball with B baseball in the same town and like wise with the A schools?


Maybe there were a few, sure. But the state took advantage of a situation that is very rare to occur and jumped on it. The possibility of a Class B school being in the softball and baseball both in the title game is slim.

I'd also say it hasn't working. Kindred both made it to state last year and then played their quarterfinal at the same time. State had no interest in moving around the schedule. it's a money grab.
boblee
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:24 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby aNDkid91 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:55 pm

airmail wrote:
Sniper wrote:As for the third place game, I don’t think giving the athletes one more game is a bad thing. They only get one chance to compete in high school basketball so awarding the teams who advanced to the final four of their region with two guaranteed games does not bother me. It’s up to the athletes to choose how hard they want to compete. If you do not want to watch a sort of “meaningless” game then show up after and just watch the championship game.


I agree. Some athletes, seniors especially, will embrace knowing that "this is it", and want to give it one final shot. I've never minded the third place games, I guess.


These two comments are exactly why we should not eliminate the 3rd/4th place game! It's a great achievement to get to regionals, an even better one to get past the first round, and if you don't win that game then you go all out to end your season with a win. Some of the toughest, most emotional games I've witnessed have been that 3rd/4th place game.
aNDkid91
NDPreps Reserve
 
Posts: 15
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:04 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby winner-within » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:57 am

when Regions have 12 or 13 teams total its important to know who is 3rd best IMO
I love looking at Trophy cases through out ND when I get a chance to and when you see a third Place Region trophy one may not know that they lost by 1 point in overtime (semis) to be in the Championship vs 3rd 4th place game............in some of these Regions one would see some very good ball at the end of a season even watching a 5th and 6th place game or a 7th and 8th place game like the State Tourn.....

I agree with B-oldtimer that it would take away from Class B ball....
If you can’t excel with talent, triumph with effort.
winner-within
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4741
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Eliminate the Regional 3-4 place game

Postby boblee » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:53 am

Amazing that I just read that getting to regions is a great accomplishment. in a 13 team region, 62% of the teams get into regionals. That's not a great accomplishment. The great accomplishment is winning that region and getting to state. Only 8% of the teams get to do that.
boblee
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2015 11:24 am


Return to Girls

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests