3 class system

The Buzz on Class B.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby The Schwab » Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:48 pm

Can't find/Don't know on: Community, Del Easton, Souris River, South Central, Woodrow Wilson. I believe all of these are parts of Class A school districts.

Ashley and Wishek form South Border
Belfield and South Heart form Heart River (I believe Billings County students go there for high school)
Elgin-New Leipzeig join with Carson to form Grant County
Fairmount is the only ND school in the FCT-R co-op
Goodrich is with Harvey-WC
Brave Center is part of Mandan
Eight Mile is Trenton
Grenora is with Westby, MT and they form the Mon-Dak Thunder and compete in MT
Mt. Pleasant is Rolla
Selfridge is with Standing Rock
St. Thomas is with Grafton
Steele Dawson is part of Kidder County with Tappen
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:02 pm

ND BBB teams + enrollment for 2017-2018. 129 teams total. Per NDHSAA and ND.gov figures. Feel free to note any errors.

Bismarck St. Mary's
Shanley High School
Tri-State: Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah-Rosholt
Minot High School 1900
West Fargo High School 1458
West Fargo Sheyenne High School 1285
Fargo Davies High School 1261
Bismarck Century High School 1252
Bismarck Legacy High School 1189
Williston High School 1166
Bismarck High School 1145
Grand Forks Red River 1071
Fargo South High School 1034
Mandan High School 1033
Grand Forks Central 1020
Dickinson 945
Fargo North High School 898
Jamestown High School 665
Turtle Mountain Comm HS 529
Devils Lake Firebirds 476
Watford City 387
Valley City High School 339
Wahpeton High School 333
Grafton Spoilers 268
New Town High School 261
Four Winds/Minnewaukan 231
Central Cass High School 227
Hillsboro/Central Valley 213
Beulah High School 201
Standing Rock Community High School 200
Kindred High School 200
Bottineau High School 195
Stanley High School 192
Dunseith High School 190
Harvey/Wells County 181
Lisbon High School 178
Langdon Area/Edmore/Munich 176
Des Lacs-Burlington HS 175
Heart River 174
Hazen High School 174
Rugby High School 166
Northern Cass High School 162
May-Port CG HS 153
Dickinson Trinity High School 150
Carrington High School 148
Velva High School 145
Park River/Fordville-Lankin 143
Killdeer High School 142
Shiloh Christian High School 140
Milnor/North Sargent 140
Oakes High School 138
Nedrose High School 136
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier 133
Thompson High School 132
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 131
Bowman County High School 130
Cavalier High School 129
Hatton/Northwood 125
Oak Grove High School 123
Midway/Minto 122
St. John High School 121
Tioga High School 120
Garrison High School 119
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion 119
Linton/HMB Lions 117
Kidder County High School 115
Beach High School 115
Hettinger/Scranton 114
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg 113
South Prairie High School 111
North Border 110
Bishop Ryan High School 109
Larimore High School 109
Divide County High School 102
Napoleon/G-S Imperials 101
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood High School 100
Wilton-Wing 97
Ellendale High School 95
Surrey High School 94
South Border Mustangs 91
Trenton High School 89
Washburn High School 89
New Rockford-Sheyenne High School 88
New Salem-Almont High School 88
TGU Titans 88
Glenburn High School 86
Barnes County North High School 84
Medina-Pingree/Buchanan 83
Enderlin High School 82
Ray High School 82
Richardton-Taylor High School 82
Richland High School 79
Dakota Prairie High School 78
Glen Ullin/Hebron 77
Kenmare High School 77
Hankinson High School 76
North Star 75
Benson County 74
Finley-Sharon/Hope Page 74
Turtle Lake-Mercer/McClusky 72
New England High School 70
Lewis & Clark High School - Berthold 67
Flasher 66
Rolla High School 65
Parshall High School 64
Bowbells/Burke Central 62
Griggs County Central High School 62
Maple Valley High School 61
Warwick High School 60
Westhope/Newburg 60
Our Redeemer's HS 59
Mott-Regent HS 59
Sargent Central High School 59
Grant County HS 58
Drake/Anamoose Raiders 58
Rolette/Wolford Comets 58
Lakota High School 57
Mandaree High School 56
Solen High School 55
Strasburg/Zeeland 54
Alexander High School 53
Max High School 53
Underwood High School 51
White Shield High School 50
Midkota 49
Powers Lake High School 49
Center-Stanton HS 48
Lewis & Clark, North Shore 36
Williston Trinity Christian High School 32
Last edited by classB4ever on Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby scc » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:05 pm

I know it's just a poll, but look at the number of times a team was ranked #1 in the B boys poll the past 16 seasons. Most of the teams come from larger or private schools.

Four Winds-Minnewaukan (or Four Winds), 31
Linton, 19
May-Port CG, 18
New Rockford-Sheyenne, 18
North Star, 18
Beulah, 15
Watford City, 10
Milnor, 9
Stanley, 6
Oak Grove, 5
Rugby, 5
Maple Valley, 4
Bishop Ryan, 3
Bottineau, 3
Lisbon, 3
Hazen, 2
Bowman, 1
Dickinson Trinity, 1
Hankinson, 1
Our Redeemer's, 1
Park River, 1
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:20 pm

Not sure about the polls, but can give the size of schools and finishes in the state tourney for past 22 years.

1st Place
Big 11 50%
Private 4 18%
Small 7 32%

2nd Place
Big 7 31.82%
Private 5 22.73%
Small 10 45.45%

3rd Place
Big 5 22.73%
Private 7 31.82%
Small 10 45.45%

4th Place
Big 3 13.64%
Private 5 22.73%
Small 14 63.64%

5th Place
Big 6 27.27%
Private 7 31.82%
Small 9 40.91%

6th Place
Big 5 22.73%
Private 5 22.73%
Small 12 54.55%

7th Place
Big 4 18.18%
Private 5 22.73%
Small 13 59.09%

8th Place
Big 6 27.27%
Private 3 13.64%
Small 13 59.09%
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Re: 3 class system

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:24 pm

What do you classify as big in the data above?
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:27 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:What do you classify as big in the data above?


174+ for each specific year. Meaning some teams were small one year and could be big the next. Vice/versa.
Last edited by classB4ever on Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:30 pm

classB4ever wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:What do you classify as big in the data above?


174+


How does the data change if you drop it down to 150 or 125?

In counting out the teams you listed above, if you went with the 20/40/rest split for divisions the enrollment between middle and small class would break at around 130. If we ever do get to 3 classes, I'm sure they are going to want more than 15-20 in that middle class for it to pass.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Thu Feb 01, 2018 1:34 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
classB4ever wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:What do you classify as big in the data above?


174+


How does the data change if you drop it down to 150 or 125?

In counting out the teams you listed above, if you went with the 20/40/rest split for divisions the enrollment between middle and small class would break at around 130. If we ever do get to 3 classes, I'm sure they are going to want more than 15-20 in that middle class for it to pass.


I think your idea is the only way it can be. Also think it would have to be top 32 for middle. Also agree with Scwhab on multiplier for teams without district borders. It is not illegal. Many states do it. We are doing it on the low end, so should be able to do on high end. Included enrollment above stream to make it easier to see where natural cutoffs would be.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:30 pm

St. Thomas is Grafton
Steele-Dawson is Kidder County
Fairmount joins Campbell-Tintah (MN) & Rosholt (SD) to become Tri-State (CT is really small...Not sure on Rosholt)
Eight Mile is Trenton
Grenora joins Westby (MT) to become Mon-Dak (competes in MT)
Email ND HS Scores to: ndhsscores at yahoo
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:46 pm

Here's how a 22,32,75 using this year's enrollment would look. Someone with better geographical sense can probably do a better job of placing them. Just for discussion.

AA East Region
West Fargo High School 1458
West Fargo Sheyenne High School 1285
Fargo Davies High School 1261
Grand Forks Red River 1071
Fargo South High School 1034
Grand Forks Central 1020
Fargo North High School 898
Devils Lake Firebirds 476
Valley City High School 339
Wahpeton High School 333
Shanley High School 0

AA West Region
Minot High School 1900
Bismarck Century High School 1252
Bismarck Legacy High School 1189
Williston High School 1166
Bismarck High School 1145
Mandan High School 1033
Dickinson 945
Jamestown High School 665
Turtle Mountain Comm HS 529
Bismarck St. Mary's 0
Watford City 387

Region 1A
Central Cass High School 227
Kindred High School 200
Lisbon High School 178
Northern Cass High School 162
Milnor/North Sargent 140
Oakes High School 138
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier 133
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 131

Region 2A
Grafton Spoilers 268
Four Winds/Minnewaukan 231
Hillsboro/Central Valley 213
Langdon Area/Edmore/Munich 176
May-Port CG HS 153
Carrington High School 148
Park River/Fordville-Lankin 143
Thompson High School 132

Region 3A
Bottineau High School 195
Stanley High School 192
Dunseith High School 190
Harvey/Wells County 181
Des Lacs-Burlington HS 175
Rugby High School 166
Velva High School 145
Nedrose High School 136

Region 4A
New Town High School 261
Beulah High School 201
Standing Rock Community High School 200
Hazen High School 174
Heart River 174
Dickinson Trinity High School 150
Killdeer High School 142
Shiloh Christian High School 140

Region 1 B
Oak Grove High School 123
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion 119
Linton/HMB Lions 117
Kidder County High School 115
Napoleon/G-S Imperials 101
Ellendale High School 95
South Border Mustangs 91
Barnes County North High School 84
Medina-Pingree/Buchanan 83
Enderlin High School 82
Richland High School 79
Hankinson High School 76
Maple Valley High School 61
Sargent Central High School 59
Drake/Anamoose Raiders 58
Strasburg/Zeeland 54
Midkota 49
Tri-State: Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah-Rosholt 0

Region 2B
Cavalier High School 129
Hatton/Northwood 125
Midway/Minto 122
St. John High School 121
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg 113
North Border 110
Larimore High School 109
New Rockford-Sheyenne High School 88
TGU Titans 88
Dakota Prairie High School 78
North Star 75
Finley-Sharon/Hope Page 74
Benson County 74
Rolla High School 65
Griggs County Central High School 62
Warwick High School 60
Westhope/Newburg 60
Rolette/Wolford Comets 58
Lakota High School 57

Region 3B
Bowman County High School 130
Garrison High School 119
Beach High School 115
Hettinger/Scranton 114
Wilton-Wing 97
Washburn High School 89
New Salem-Almont High School 88
Richardton-Taylor High School 82
Glen Ullin/Hebron 77
Turtle Lake-Mercer/McClusky 72
New England High School 70
Flasher 66
Mott-Regent HS 59
Grant County HS 58
Solen High School 55
Max High School 53
Underwood High School 51
Center-Stanton HS 48

Region 4B
Tioga High School 120
South Prairie High School 111
Bishop Ryan High School 109
Divide County High School 102
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood High School 100
Surrey High School 94
Trenton High School 89
Glenburn High School 86
Ray High School 82
Kenmare High School 77
Lewis & Clark High School - Berthold 67
Parshall High School 64
Bowbells/Burke Central 62
Our Redeemer's HS 59
Mandaree High School 56
Alexander High School 53
White Shield High School 50
Powers Lake High School 49
Lewis & Clark, North Shore 36
Williston Trinity Christian High School 32
Last edited by classB4ever on Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby woodchuck10 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:22 pm

classB4ever wrote:Here's how a 22,32,75 using this year's enrollment would look. Someone with better geographical sense can probably do a better job of placing them. Just for discussion.

AA East Region
West Fargo High School 1458
West Fargo Sheyenne High School 1285
Fargo Davies High School 1261
Grand Forks Red River 1071
Fargo South High School 1034
Grand Forks Central 1020
Fargo North High School 898
Devils Lake Firebirds 476
Valley City High School 339
Wahpeton High School 333
Shanley High School 0

AA West Region
Bismarck Century High School 1252
Bismarck Legacy High School 1189
Williston High School 1166
Bismarck High School 1145
Mandan High School 1033
Dickinson 945
Minot High School 900
Jamestown High School 665
Turtle Mountain Comm HS 529
Bismarck St. Mary's 0
Watford City 387

Region 1A
Central Cass High School 227
Kindred High School 200
Lisbon High School 178
Northern Cass High School 162
Milnor/North Sargent 140
Oakes High School 138
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier 133
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 131

Region 2A
Grafton Spoilers 268
Four Winds/Minnewaukan 231
Hillsboro/Central Valley 213
Langdon Area/Edmore/Munich 176
May-Port CG HS 153
Carrington High School 148
Park River/Fordville-Lankin 143
Thompson High School 132

Region 3A
Bottineau High School 195
Stanley High School 192
Dunseith High School 190
Harvey/Wells County 181
Des Lacs-Burlington HS 175
Rugby High School 166
Velva High School 145
Nedrose High School 136

Region 4A
New Town High School 261
Beulah High School 201
Standing Rock Community High School 200
Hazen High School 174
Heart River 174
Dickinson Trinity High School 150
Killdeer High School 142
Shiloh Christian High School 140

Region 1 B
Oak Grove High School 123
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion 119
Linton/HMB Lions 117
Kidder County High School 115
Napoleon/G-S Imperials 101
Ellendale High School 95
South Border Mustangs 91
Barnes County North High School 84
Medina-Pingree/Buchanan 83
Enderlin High School 82
Richland High School 79
Hankinson High School 76
Maple Valley High School 61
Sargent Central High School 59
Drake/Anamoose Raiders 58
Strasburg/Zeeland 54
Midkota 49
Tri-State: Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah-Rosholt 0

Region 2B
Cavalier High School 129
Hatton/Northwood 125
Midway/Minto 122
St. John High School 121
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg 113
North Border 110
Larimore High School 109
New Rockford-Sheyenne High School 88
TGU Titans 88
Dakota Prairie High School 78
North Star 75
Finley-Sharon/Hope Page 74
Benson County 74
Rolla High School 65
Griggs County Central High School 62
Warwick High School 60
Westhope/Newburg 60
Rolette/Wolford Comets 58
Lakota High School 57

Region 3B
Bowman County High School 130
Garrison High School 119
Beach High School 115
Hettinger/Scranton 114
Wilton-Wing 97
Washburn High School 89
New Salem-Almont High School 88
Richardton-Taylor High School 82
Glen Ullin/Hebron 77
Turtle Lake-Mercer/McClusky 72
New England High School 70
Flasher 66
Mott-Regent HS 59
Grant County HS 58
Solen High School 55
Max High School 53
Underwood High School 51
Center-Stanton HS 48

Region 4B
Tioga High School 120
South Prairie High School 111
Bishop Ryan High School 109
Divide County High School 102
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood High School 100
Surrey High School 94
Trenton High School 89
Glenburn High School 86
Ray High School 82
Kenmare High School 77
Lewis & Clark High School - Berthold 67
Parshall High School 64
Bowbells/Burke Central 62
Our Redeemer's HS 59
Mandaree High School 56
Alexander High School 53
White Shield High School 50
Powers Lake High School 49
Lewis & Clark, North Shore 36
Williston Trinity Christian High School 32


I think the four A champions and four B Champions would make for a fun state tournement. The district tourneys in B would be reviltalized as well, top 4 out of 9 or 10 to make the regional. We would then have 3 classes for the region level but still 2 class at the state level.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby gvmearees » Fri Feb 02, 2018 10:40 am

Not that it matters for this discussion but Minot has over 1900 student when you count Central Campus(grades 9-10) and Magic City(grades 11-12)
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Re: 3 class system

Postby The Schwab » Fri Feb 02, 2018 11:49 am

classB4ever wrote:Here's how a 22,32,75 using this year's enrollment would look. Someone with better geographical sense can probably do a better job of placing them. Just for discussion.

AA East Region
West Fargo High School 1458
West Fargo Sheyenne High School 1285
Fargo Davies High School 1261
Grand Forks Red River 1071
Fargo South High School 1034
Grand Forks Central 1020
Fargo North High School 898
Devils Lake Firebirds 476
Valley City High School 339
Wahpeton High School 333
Shanley High School 0

AA West Region
Bismarck Century High School 1252
Bismarck Legacy High School 1189
Williston High School 1166
Bismarck High School 1145
Mandan High School 1033
Dickinson 945
Minot High School 900
Jamestown High School 665
Turtle Mountain Comm HS 529
Bismarck St. Mary's 0
Watford City 387

Region 1A
Central Cass High School 227
Kindred High School 200
Lisbon High School 178
Northern Cass High School 162
Milnor/North Sargent 140
Oakes High School 138
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier 133
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 131

Region 2A
Grafton Spoilers 268
Four Winds/Minnewaukan 231
Hillsboro/Central Valley 213
Langdon Area/Edmore/Munich 176
May-Port CG HS 153
Carrington High School 148
Park River/Fordville-Lankin 143
Thompson High School 132

Region 3A
Bottineau High School 195
Stanley High School 192
Dunseith High School 190
Harvey/Wells County 181
Des Lacs-Burlington HS 175
Rugby High School 166
Velva High School 145
Nedrose High School 136

Region 4A
New Town High School 261
Beulah High School 201
Standing Rock Community High School 200
Hazen High School 174
Heart River 174
Dickinson Trinity High School 150
Killdeer High School 142
Shiloh Christian High School 140

Region 1 B
Oak Grove High School 123
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion 119
Linton/HMB Lions 117
Kidder County High School 115
Napoleon/G-S Imperials 101
Ellendale High School 95
South Border Mustangs 91
Barnes County North High School 84
Medina-Pingree/Buchanan 83
Enderlin High School 82
Richland High School 79
Hankinson High School 76
Maple Valley High School 61
Sargent Central High School 59
Drake/Anamoose Raiders 58
Strasburg/Zeeland 54
Midkota 49
Tri-State: Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah-Rosholt 0

Region 2B
Cavalier High School 129
Hatton/Northwood 125
Midway/Minto 122
St. John High School 121
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg 113
North Border 110
Larimore High School 109
New Rockford-Sheyenne High School 88
TGU Titans 88
Dakota Prairie High School 78
North Star 75
Finley-Sharon/Hope Page 74
Benson County 74
Rolla High School 65
Griggs County Central High School 62
Warwick High School 60
Westhope/Newburg 60
Rolette/Wolford Comets 58
Lakota High School 57

Region 3B
Bowman County High School 130
Garrison High School 119
Beach High School 115
Hettinger/Scranton 114
Wilton-Wing 97
Washburn High School 89
New Salem-Almont High School 88
Richardton-Taylor High School 82
Glen Ullin/Hebron 77
Turtle Lake-Mercer/McClusky 72
New England High School 70
Flasher 66
Mott-Regent HS 59
Grant County HS 58
Solen High School 55
Max High School 53
Underwood High School 51
Center-Stanton HS 48

Region 4B
Tioga High School 120
South Prairie High School 111
Bishop Ryan High School 109
Divide County High School 102
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood High School 100
Surrey High School 94
Trenton High School 89
Glenburn High School 86
Ray High School 82
Kenmare High School 77
Lewis & Clark High School - Berthold 67
Parshall High School 64
Bowbells/Burke Central 62
Our Redeemer's HS 59
Mandaree High School 56
Alexander High School 53
White Shield High School 50
Powers Lake High School 49
Lewis & Clark, North Shore 36
Williston Trinity Christian High School 32


This looks like a system that makes sense, could bring back district level basketball for class B and would create a lot of excitement.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby classB4ever » Fri Feb 02, 2018 12:26 pm

gvmearees wrote:Not that it matters for this discussion but Minot has over 1900 student when you count Central Campus(grades 9-10) and Magic City(grades 11-12)


Wow. Couldn't find enrollment for Central Campus so went with your number. Thanks.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby B-oldtimer » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:19 am

The above setup looks like they have done pretty good job to where I could see where we would have some competitive balance again. I think that class b and class a should each have there own state tournament not trying to mix them together. The reason for separate class was to get competitive balance and doing this would take away from either class of winning there region or state tournament let each class stand on its own. If schools want to play up division let them opt up if there is corresponding school that would want to opt down I would think some schools that have reasons to move each way because individual circumstances. If people want see the competition between classes something that could be open tournaments in season between the classes like we have now with class b tournaments at beginning season and at holidays for the teams. I look here on this thread there is develop plan that has way to develop 3 classes but Activities Association and Administration have yet even gotten to even want to put forth a plan and discuss it. I am sure there are things that would need to be considered on the above plan but we can't even get anybody to move. Usually when this is happening it has do with money and politics of few who are in charge that don't want to see any change or even discuss any change.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby B Historian » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:54 am

classB4ever wrote:Here's how a 22,32,75 using this year's enrollment would look. Someone with better geographical sense can probably do a better job of placing them. Just for discussion.

AA East Region
West Fargo High School 1458
West Fargo Sheyenne High School 1285
Fargo Davies High School 1261
Grand Forks Red River 1071
Fargo South High School 1034
Grand Forks Central 1020
Fargo North High School 898
Devils Lake Firebirds 476
Valley City High School 339
Wahpeton High School 333
Shanley High School 0

AA West Region
Minot High School 1900
Bismarck Century High School 1252
Bismarck Legacy High School 1189
Williston High School 1166
Bismarck High School 1145
Mandan High School 1033
Dickinson 945
Jamestown High School 665
Turtle Mountain Comm HS 529
Bismarck St. Mary's 0
Watford City 387

Region 1A
Central Cass High School 227
Kindred High School 200
Lisbon High School 178
Northern Cass High School 162
Milnor/North Sargent 140
Oakes High School 138
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier 133
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 131

Region 2A
Grafton Spoilers 268
Four Winds/Minnewaukan 231
Hillsboro/Central Valley 213
Langdon Area/Edmore/Munich 176
May-Port CG HS 153
Carrington High School 148
Park River/Fordville-Lankin 143
Thompson High School 132

Region 3A
Bottineau High School 195
Stanley High School 192
Dunseith High School 190
Harvey/Wells County 181
Des Lacs-Burlington HS 175
Rugby High School 166
Velva High School 145
Nedrose High School 136

Region 4A
New Town High School 261
Beulah High School 201
Standing Rock Community High School 200
Hazen High School 174
Heart River 174
Dickinson Trinity High School 150
Killdeer High School 142
Shiloh Christian High School 140

Region 1 B
Oak Grove High School 123
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion 119
Linton/HMB Lions 117
Kidder County High School 115
Napoleon/G-S Imperials 101
Ellendale High School 95
South Border Mustangs 91
Barnes County North High School 84
Medina-Pingree/Buchanan 83
Enderlin High School 82
Richland High School 79
Hankinson High School 76
Maple Valley High School 61
Sargent Central High School 59
Drake/Anamoose Raiders 58
Strasburg/Zeeland 54
Midkota 49
Tri-State: Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah-Rosholt 0

Region 2B
Cavalier High School 129
Hatton/Northwood 125
Midway/Minto 122
St. John High School 121
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg 113
North Border 110
Larimore High School 109
New Rockford-Sheyenne High School 88
TGU Titans 88
Dakota Prairie High School 78
North Star 75
Finley-Sharon/Hope Page 74
Benson County 74
Rolla High School 65
Griggs County Central High School 62
Warwick High School 60
Westhope/Newburg 60
Rolette/Wolford Comets 58
Lakota High School 57

Region 3B
Bowman County High School 130
Garrison High School 119
Beach High School 115
Hettinger/Scranton 114
Wilton-Wing 97
Washburn High School 89
New Salem-Almont High School 88
Richardton-Taylor High School 82
Glen Ullin/Hebron 77
Turtle Lake-Mercer/McClusky 72
New England High School 70
Flasher 66
Mott-Regent HS 59
Grant County HS 58
Solen High School 55
Max High School 53
Underwood High School 51
Center-Stanton HS 48

Region 4B
Tioga High School 120
South Prairie High School 111
Bishop Ryan High School 109
Divide County High School 102
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood High School 100
Surrey High School 94
Trenton High School 89
Glenburn High School 86
Ray High School 82
Kenmare High School 77
Lewis & Clark High School - Berthold 67
Parshall High School 64
Bowbells/Burke Central 62
Our Redeemer's HS 59
Mandaree High School 56
Alexander High School 53
White Shield High School 50
Powers Lake High School 49
Lewis & Clark, North Shore 36
Williston Trinity Christian High School 32


Nice work on this. A plan like this gets Dickinson Trinity out of Class B and it seems people in the SW part of the state upset about Trinity account for 75% of the complaining about needing three classes. However, Oak Grove and Our Redeemer's would still be Class B so unless there is some sort of multiplier introduced for private schools there would still be privates in Class B. Maybe Oak Grove opts up, but they would dominate the smaller schools in their region in B.

One factor people always miss when considering why ND doesn't have 3 classes: there are basically no mid-sized schools in the state. There are only 5-6 schools between 265 and 900 in enrollment. The lack of schools in this size range is why we have the ridiculous 10 team AA football. Do we break up a two-class basketball system that has been successful for 50 years to create a third class that likely doesn't address all of the perceived inequities?

Another thing to consider: Would some coops like Milnor-North Sargent, Wyndmere-Lidgerwood and Heart River split up to stay out of Class A? In my opinion this would be a good thing but could make forming a middle class a moving target.

Also, I think in any three class system, Valley City, Watford City and Wahpeton need to be in the middle class. I think the enrollment cutoff for the upper class should be about 450.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby woodchuck10 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 1:44 am

B Historian wrote:
classB4ever wrote:Here's how a 22,32,75 using this year's enrollment would look. Someone with better geographical sense can probably do a better job of placing them. Just for discussion.

AA East Region
West Fargo High School 1458
West Fargo Sheyenne High School 1285
Fargo Davies High School 1261
Grand Forks Red River 1071
Fargo South High School 1034
Grand Forks Central 1020
Fargo North High School 898
Devils Lake Firebirds 476
Valley City High School 339
Wahpeton High School 333
Shanley High School 0

AA West Region
Minot High School 1900
Bismarck Century High School 1252
Bismarck Legacy High School 1189
Williston High School 1166
Bismarck High School 1145
Mandan High School 1033
Dickinson 945
Jamestown High School 665
Turtle Mountain Comm HS 529
Bismarck St. Mary's 0
Watford City 387

Region 1A
Central Cass High School 227
Kindred High School 200
Lisbon High School 178
Northern Cass High School 162
Milnor/North Sargent 140
Oakes High School 138
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier 133
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 131

Region 2A
Grafton Spoilers 268
Four Winds/Minnewaukan 231
Hillsboro/Central Valley 213
Langdon Area/Edmore/Munich 176
May-Port CG HS 153
Carrington High School 148
Park River/Fordville-Lankin 143
Thompson High School 132

Region 3A
Bottineau High School 195
Stanley High School 192
Dunseith High School 190
Harvey/Wells County 181
Des Lacs-Burlington HS 175
Rugby High School 166
Velva High School 145
Nedrose High School 136

Region 4A
New Town High School 261
Beulah High School 201
Standing Rock Community High School 200
Hazen High School 174
Heart River 174
Dickinson Trinity High School 150
Killdeer High School 142
Shiloh Christian High School 140

Region 1 B
Oak Grove High School 123
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion 119
Linton/HMB Lions 117
Kidder County High School 115
Napoleon/G-S Imperials 101
Ellendale High School 95
South Border Mustangs 91
Barnes County North High School 84
Medina-Pingree/Buchanan 83
Enderlin High School 82
Richland High School 79
Hankinson High School 76
Maple Valley High School 61
Sargent Central High School 59
Drake/Anamoose Raiders 58
Strasburg/Zeeland 54
Midkota 49
Tri-State: Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah-Rosholt 0

Region 2B
Cavalier High School 129
Hatton/Northwood 125
Midway/Minto 122
St. John High School 121
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg 113
North Border 110
Larimore High School 109
New Rockford-Sheyenne High School 88
TGU Titans 88
Dakota Prairie High School 78
North Star 75
Finley-Sharon/Hope Page 74
Benson County 74
Rolla High School 65
Griggs County Central High School 62
Warwick High School 60
Westhope/Newburg 60
Rolette/Wolford Comets 58
Lakota High School 57

Region 3B
Bowman County High School 130
Garrison High School 119
Beach High School 115
Hettinger/Scranton 114
Wilton-Wing 97
Washburn High School 89
New Salem-Almont High School 88
Richardton-Taylor High School 82
Glen Ullin/Hebron 77
Turtle Lake-Mercer/McClusky 72
New England High School 70
Flasher 66
Mott-Regent HS 59
Grant County HS 58
Solen High School 55
Max High School 53
Underwood High School 51
Center-Stanton HS 48

Region 4B
Tioga High School 120
South Prairie High School 111
Bishop Ryan High School 109
Divide County High School 102
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood High School 100
Surrey High School 94
Trenton High School 89
Glenburn High School 86
Ray High School 82
Kenmare High School 77
Lewis & Clark High School - Berthold 67
Parshall High School 64
Bowbells/Burke Central 62
Our Redeemer's HS 59
Mandaree High School 56
Alexander High School 53
White Shield High School 50
Powers Lake High School 49
Lewis & Clark, North Shore 36
Williston Trinity Christian High School 32


Nice work on this. A plan like this gets Dickinson Trinity out of Class B and it seems people in the SW part of the state upset about Trinity account for 75% of the complaining about needing three classes. However, Oak Grove and Our Redeemer's would still be Class B so unless there is some sort of multiplier introduced for private schools there would still be privates in Class B. Maybe Oak Grove opts up, but they would dominate the smaller schools in their region in B.

One factor people always miss when considering why ND doesn't have 3 classes: there are basically no mid-sized schools in the state. There are only 5-6 schools between 265 and 900 in enrollment. The lack of schools in this size range is why we have the ridiculous 10 team AA football. Do we break up a two-class basketball system that has been successful for 50 years to create a third class that likely doesn't address all of the perceived inequities?

Another thing to consider: Would some coops like Milnor-North Sargent, Wyndmere-Lidgerwood and Heart River split up to stay out of Class A? In my opinion this would be a good thing but could make forming a middle class a moving target.

Also, I think in any three class system, Valley City, Watford City and Wahpeton need to be in the middle class. I think the enrollment cutoff for the upper class should be about 450.


Something like this? 16, 20, 93. I just put all the B privates in the middle class without regards to enrollment. They should just agree to do it. We might actually like and root for them as the little guy against big bad Devils Lake or Jamestown etc lol

AA

EDC
West Fargo
West Fargo Sheyenne
Fargo North
Fargo South
Fargo Davies
Fargo Shanley
GF Central
GF Red River

WDA
Bismarck
Century
Legacy
St. Mary’s
Mandan
Williston
Dickinson
Minot

A

East
Jamestown
Valley City
Wahpeton
Devils Lake
Fargo Oak Grove
Central Cass
Kindred
Grafton
Four Winds/Minnewaukan
Hillsboro/CV

West
Belcourt
Watford City
Bishop Ryan
Our Redeemers
Shiloh Christian
Dickinson Trinity
Williston Trinity
New Town
Beulah
Standing Rock

B
The rest. Probably 8 regions. Maybe 4.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Rivershark » Sat Feb 03, 2018 2:24 am

The Schwab wrote:
classB4ever wrote:Here's how a 22,32,75 using this year's enrollment would look. Someone with better geographical sense can probably do a better job of placing them. Just for discussion.

AA East Region
West Fargo High School 1458
West Fargo Sheyenne High School 1285
Fargo Davies High School 1261
Grand Forks Red River 1071
Fargo South High School 1034
Grand Forks Central 1020
Fargo North High School 898
Devils Lake Firebirds 476
Valley City High School 339
Wahpeton High School 333
Shanley High School 0

AA West Region
Bismarck Century High School 1252
Bismarck Legacy High School 1189
Williston High School 1166
Bismarck High School 1145
Mandan High School 1033
Dickinson 945
Minot High School 900
Jamestown High School 665
Turtle Mountain Comm HS 529
Bismarck St. Mary's 0
Watford City 387

Region 1A
Central Cass High School 227
Kindred High School 200
Lisbon High School 178
Northern Cass High School 162
Milnor/North Sargent 140
Oakes High School 138
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier 133
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 131

Region 2A
Grafton Spoilers 268
Four Winds/Minnewaukan 231
Hillsboro/Central Valley 213
Langdon Area/Edmore/Munich 176
May-Port CG HS 153
Carrington High School 148
Park River/Fordville-Lankin 143
Thompson High School 132

Region 3A
Bottineau High School 195
Stanley High School 192
Dunseith High School 190
Harvey/Wells County 181
Des Lacs-Burlington HS 175
Rugby High School 166
Velva High School 145
Nedrose High School 136

Region 4A
New Town High School 261
Beulah High School 201
Standing Rock Community High School 200
Hazen High School 174
Heart River 174
Dickinson Trinity High School 150
Killdeer High School 142
Shiloh Christian High School 140

Region 1 B
Oak Grove High School 123
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion 119
Linton/HMB Lions 117
Kidder County High School 115
Napoleon/G-S Imperials 101
Ellendale High School 95
South Border Mustangs 91
Barnes County North High School 84
Medina-Pingree/Buchanan 83
Enderlin High School 82
Richland High School 79
Hankinson High School 76
Maple Valley High School 61
Sargent Central High School 59
Drake/Anamoose Raiders 58
Strasburg/Zeeland 54
Midkota 49
Tri-State: Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah-Rosholt 0

Region 2B
Cavalier High School 129
Hatton/Northwood 125
Midway/Minto 122
St. John High School 121
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg 113
North Border 110
Larimore High School 109
New Rockford-Sheyenne High School 88
TGU Titans 88
Dakota Prairie High School 78
North Star 75
Finley-Sharon/Hope Page 74
Benson County 74
Rolla High School 65
Griggs County Central High School 62
Warwick High School 60
Westhope/Newburg 60
Rolette/Wolford Comets 58
Lakota High School 57

Region 3B
Bowman County High School 130
Garrison High School 119
Beach High School 115
Hettinger/Scranton 114
Wilton-Wing 97
Washburn High School 89
New Salem-Almont High School 88
Richardton-Taylor High School 82
Glen Ullin/Hebron 77
Turtle Lake-Mercer/McClusky 72
New England High School 70
Flasher 66
Mott-Regent HS 59
Grant County HS 58
Solen High School 55
Max High School 53
Underwood High School 51
Center-Stanton HS 48

Region 4B
Tioga High School 120
South Prairie High School 111
Bishop Ryan High School 109
Divide County High School 102
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood High School 100
Surrey High School 94
Trenton High School 89
Glenburn High School 86
Ray High School 82
Kenmare High School 77
Lewis & Clark High School - Berthold 67
Parshall High School 64
Bowbells/Burke Central 62
Our Redeemer's HS 59
Mandaree High School 56
Alexander High School 53
White Shield High School 50
Powers Lake High School 49
Lewis & Clark, North Shore 36
Williston Trinity Christian High School 32


This looks like a system that makes sense, could bring back district level basketball for class B and would create a lot of excitement.


I would hate to be in the Region 2A.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 3:44 am

Just my opinion...but the AA group needs to have more than 16 teams...20 seems more appropriate (close to what is done now). 16 teams means half make it to state - 20 teams means 40% make it to state. Some poor teams will be making AA state with only 16 teams.

Just my take on it...some quality options being thrown out.

Reminder: 3 class ideas have been thrown out in the past...1 deterrent was that not one accounted for Volleyball. If 3 classes happens for BB it has to happen for VB as well (I believe NDHSAA has stated that with past proposals).
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Bisonguy06 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:26 am

Do you think you could bank on the private schools opting up into the middle class if they didn't land there by enrollment?
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:51 pm

Bisonguy06 wrote:Do you think you could bank on the private schools opting up into the middle class if they didn't land there by enrollment?


I could see all of them BUT WTC going up...with 42 kids in their school there is no reason for them to be in middle grouping.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby B Historian » Sat Feb 03, 2018 4:22 pm

Bisonguy06 wrote:Do you think you could bank on the private schools opting up into the middle class if they didn't land there by enrollment?


I don't see Our Redeemer's and Trinity Christian opting up as small as they are. And there is really no way to legislate that they do play up. I think the other private schools would likely play up.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby B Historian » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:03 pm

woodchuck10 wrote:
B Historian wrote:
classB4ever wrote:Here's how a 22,32,75 using this year's enrollment would look. Someone with better geographical sense can probably do a better job of placing them. Just for discussion.

AA East Region
West Fargo High School 1458
West Fargo Sheyenne High School 1285
Fargo Davies High School 1261
Grand Forks Red River 1071
Fargo South High School 1034
Grand Forks Central 1020
Fargo North High School 898
Devils Lake Firebirds 476
Valley City High School 339
Wahpeton High School 333
Shanley High School 0

AA West Region
Minot High School 1900
Bismarck Century High School 1252
Bismarck Legacy High School 1189
Williston High School 1166
Bismarck High School 1145
Mandan High School 1033
Dickinson 945
Jamestown High School 665
Turtle Mountain Comm HS 529
Bismarck St. Mary's 0
Watford City 387

Region 1A
Central Cass High School 227
Kindred High School 200
Lisbon High School 178
Northern Cass High School 162
Milnor/North Sargent 140
Oakes High School 138
Edgeley/Kulm/Montpelier 133
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood 131

Region 2A
Grafton Spoilers 268
Four Winds/Minnewaukan 231
Hillsboro/Central Valley 213
Langdon Area/Edmore/Munich 176
May-Port CG HS 153
Carrington High School 148
Park River/Fordville-Lankin 143
Thompson High School 132

Region 3A
Bottineau High School 195
Stanley High School 192
Dunseith High School 190
Harvey/Wells County 181
Des Lacs-Burlington HS 175
Rugby High School 166
Velva High School 145
Nedrose High School 136

Region 4A
New Town High School 261
Beulah High School 201
Standing Rock Community High School 200
Hazen High School 174
Heart River 174
Dickinson Trinity High School 150
Killdeer High School 142
Shiloh Christian High School 140

Region 1 B
Oak Grove High School 123
LaMoure-Litchville/Marion 119
Linton/HMB Lions 117
Kidder County High School 115
Napoleon/G-S Imperials 101
Ellendale High School 95
South Border Mustangs 91
Barnes County North High School 84
Medina-Pingree/Buchanan 83
Enderlin High School 82
Richland High School 79
Hankinson High School 76
Maple Valley High School 61
Sargent Central High School 59
Drake/Anamoose Raiders 58
Strasburg/Zeeland 54
Midkota 49
Tri-State: Fairmount-Campbell-Tintah-Rosholt 0

Region 2B
Cavalier High School 129
Hatton/Northwood 125
Midway/Minto 122
St. John High School 121
Drayton/Valley-Edinburg 113
North Border 110
Larimore High School 109
New Rockford-Sheyenne High School 88
TGU Titans 88
Dakota Prairie High School 78
North Star 75
Finley-Sharon/Hope Page 74
Benson County 74
Rolla High School 65
Griggs County Central High School 62
Warwick High School 60
Westhope/Newburg 60
Rolette/Wolford Comets 58
Lakota High School 57

Region 3B
Bowman County High School 130
Garrison High School 119
Beach High School 115
Hettinger/Scranton 114
Wilton-Wing 97
Washburn High School 89
New Salem-Almont High School 88
Richardton-Taylor High School 82
Glen Ullin/Hebron 77
Turtle Lake-Mercer/McClusky 72
New England High School 70
Flasher 66
Mott-Regent HS 59
Grant County HS 58
Solen High School 55
Max High School 53
Underwood High School 51
Center-Stanton HS 48

Region 4B
Tioga High School 120
South Prairie High School 111
Bishop Ryan High School 109
Divide County High School 102
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood High School 100
Surrey High School 94
Trenton High School 89
Glenburn High School 86
Ray High School 82
Kenmare High School 77
Lewis & Clark High School - Berthold 67
Parshall High School 64
Bowbells/Burke Central 62
Our Redeemer's HS 59
Mandaree High School 56
Alexander High School 53
White Shield High School 50
Powers Lake High School 49
Lewis & Clark, North Shore 36
Williston Trinity Christian High School 32


Nice work on this. A plan like this gets Dickinson Trinity out of Class B and it seems people in the SW part of the state upset about Trinity account for 75% of the complaining about needing three classes. However, Oak Grove and Our Redeemer's would still be Class B so unless there is some sort of multiplier introduced for private schools there would still be privates in Class B. Maybe Oak Grove opts up, but they would dominate the smaller schools in their region in B.

One factor people always miss when considering why ND doesn't have 3 classes: there are basically no mid-sized schools in the state. There are only 5-6 schools between 265 and 900 in enrollment. The lack of schools in this size range is why we have the ridiculous 10 team AA football. Do we break up a two-class basketball system that has been successful for 50 years to create a third class that likely doesn't address all of the perceived inequities?

Another thing to consider: Would some coops like Milnor-North Sargent, Wyndmere-Lidgerwood and Heart River split up to stay out of Class A? In my opinion this would be a good thing but could make forming a middle class a moving target.

Also, I think in any three class system, Valley City, Watford City and Wahpeton need to be in the middle class. I think the enrollment cutoff for the upper class should be about 450.


Something like this? 16, 20, 93. I just put all the B privates in the middle class without regards to enrollment. They should just agree to do it. We might actually like and root for them as the little guy against big bad Devils Lake or Jamestown etc lol

AA

EDC
West Fargo
West Fargo Sheyenne
Fargo North
Fargo South
Fargo Davies
Fargo Shanley
GF Central
GF Red River

WDA
Bismarck
Century
Legacy
St. Mary’s
Mandan
Williston
Dickinson
Minot

A

East
Jamestown
Valley City
Wahpeton
Devils Lake
Fargo Oak Grove
Central Cass
Kindred
Grafton
Four Winds/Minnewaukan
Hillsboro/CV

West
Belcourt
Watford City
Bishop Ryan
Our Redeemers
Shiloh Christian
Dickinson Trinity
Williston Trinity
New Town
Beulah
Standing Rock

B
The rest. Probably 8 regions. Maybe 4.


A middle class that small will not work. Think about the amount of travel involved for these schools. It's not like Central Cass and Kindred have a fancy charter bus like Minot does to transport kids all over the state. And you would be asking these schools to do it in three sports. I don't see that happening.

I really think the way it would have to be done is this:

Enrollment 450+ is Class AA
Enrollment 125-450 is Class A
Enrollment below 125 is Class B

This would leave 19 schools in AA, 38-40 in A and the rest in B.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby B Historian » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:25 pm

Some other problems/ logistical issues with a 3-class system:

As I alluded to in my post above this one, travel would be a huge issue for a new Class A. If there was for example a 32 team Class A split into four regions, then the assumption would be that each team would play every other team within it's region both home and away (14 games). You are looking at extensive travel for many schools, some match ups requiring 300 mile round trips for a "regional" game. With GBB and volleyball also facing similar schedules this would be very tough for many schools.

The next issue is state tournament scheduling. The current setup works very well. It's TV friendly and provides exposure for everyone. How do you go about scheduling another entire class? You can't combine the A and B tournaments in the same location on the same weekend: there is no town in the state with enough hotel space. The only scheduling setup that would work is to have the girls A & B tournaments the first weekend in March in different locations, then the Super AA the second weekend and the boys A & B tournaments in different locations the third weekend in March. In this scenario someone is going to left out of the TV coverage. It's also quite possible that attendance suffers greatly as well.

To sum up, there are many pitfalls to a three class system that need to be considered before implementing. Personally, I'm not sold that it's the right thing to do.
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Re: 3 class system

Postby Flip » Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:15 am

B Historian wrote:As I alluded to in my post above this one, travel would be a huge issue for a new Class A. If there was for example a 32 team Class A split into four regions, then the assumption would be that each team would play every other team within it's region both home and away (14 games). You are looking at extensive travel for many schools, some match ups requiring 300 mile round trips for a "regional" game. With GBB and volleyball also facing similar schedules this would be very tough for many schools.

I don't believe they would ever require a home and away game with every team. My suggestion would be to seed your region tournament on QRF and require no region games.

The next issue is state tournament scheduling. The current setup works very well. It's TV friendly and provides exposure for everyone. How do you go about scheduling another entire class? You can't combine the A and B tournaments in the same location on the same weekend: there is no town in the state with enough hotel space. The only scheduling setup that would work is to have the girls A & B tournaments the first weekend in March in different locations, then the Super AA the second weekend and the boys A & B tournaments in different locations the third weekend in March. In this scenario someone is going to left out of the TV coverage. It's also quite possible that attendance suffers greatly as well.

How does SD do it? They have fewer big towns than ND. Or any state? I think ND is the only state to have 2 classes.
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