Super Regions - Like or Dislike

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Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby Rivershark » Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:23 pm

I'm sure this topic has been discussed already, but with end of season tournaments starting up what are everyone's thoughts on the super regions. 3 out of the 8 regions have them, but are they all they're cracked up to be? One thing that bothers me is that the frequency of games in our super region sure have tapered off the last couple weeks. Looking forward to start playing again.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby scc » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:08 pm

Region 1 does it the right way. The play-in games need to be at the tournament site. There's nothing particularly super about the tournament. It's just play-in games and an 8-team field. Changing the district tournaments to double-elimination is what ruined them.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Sun Feb 19, 2017 7:22 pm

scc wrote:Region 1 does it the right way. The play-in games need to be at the tournament site. There's nothing particularly super about the tournament. It's just play-in games and an 8-team field. Changing the district tournaments to double-elimination is what ruined them.


Region 1 just needs to allow for 1 more Regular Season game (21 like R2 & R7 allow) and get that play-in round a little closer to the Region Tournament...instead of a week before...1 more Regular season game allowed could help with that gap. Top 3 seeds haven't played a game since February 9th.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby Flip » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:07 pm

Rivershark wrote:I'm sure this topic has been discussed already, but with end of season tournaments starting up what are everyone's thoughts on the super regions. 3 out of the 8 regions have them, but are they all they're cracked up to be? One thing that bothers me is that the frequency of games in our super region sure have tapered off the last couple weeks. Looking forward to start playing again.

There really isn't a good reason for this happening other than you can't play a non region game vs a team that has districts the last week of the regular season.

My dream is one day they expand the season 2 weeks and let you play 25 games. I'll settle for 1 week and 23 games though.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby d_fense » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:59 pm

scc wrote:Region 1 does it the right way. The play-in games need to be at the tournament site. There's nothing particularly super about the tournament. It's just play-in games and an 8-team field. Changing the district tournaments to double-elimination is what ruined them.

Region 1 IMO typically screws things up. If they do get something right, they'll likely "unfix" it. The play-in games you refer to, according to what I've heard will go to higher seed sites starting next season. Unfixed that. The state currently and has always allowed teams in "super regions" to play 21 regular season games. Region 1's brain trust decided to limit opportunities to play and compete for our students to 20 games. Thank goodness, wouldn't want to make another memory when they could stay home and look at phones.

This from the region that brought us the "yellow card". Which by the way I have never even heard of someone receiving. Ya, ok. Region 1 does things right.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby Mailman_25 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:06 pm

Region 1 had to rent the SHAC on their own dime for the play-in games for this year's GBB tournament. That's not cheap. Attendance was not good.

I am neither for nor against play-in games at the tournament site. But something to consider when thinking about renting a facility for the play-in games.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby d_fense » Mon Feb 20, 2017 3:02 pm

Mailman_25 wrote:Region 1 had to rent the SHAC on their own dime for the play-in games for this year's GBB tournament. That's not cheap. Attendance was not good.

I am neither for nor against play-in games at the tournament site. But something to consider when thinking about renting a facility for the play-in games.

Anyone know what the actual cost is?

Is the Civic Center no longer available? Why the change?

Maybe if everyone played the full number of games the state allowed, there would be a little more revenue to help with rent...
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby Rivershark » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:12 am

The University venues are nice, but it's ridiculous to have to pay $4 for a box of popcorn or water. NDHSAA should have some stipulations when renting these facilities. A family of four could easily spend $75 a night.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:46 am

d_fense wrote:
Mailman_25 wrote:Region 1 had to rent the SHAC on their own dime for the play-in games for this year's GBB tournament. That's not cheap. Attendance was not good.

I am neither for nor against play-in games at the tournament site. But something to consider when thinking about renting a facility for the play-in games.

Anyone know what the actual cost is?

Is the Civic Center no longer available? Why the change?

Maybe if everyone played the full number of games the state allowed, there would be a little more revenue to help with rent...


Fargo Civic Center is no longer available...the Heart O' Lakes Shootout on the 11th was the last BB to be played in there...NDSU SHAC is a remarkable venue...I still wish some things were available to do to make it more incredible...but the feel of fans right up against the court is better than what State will feel like at the Alerus Center
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby stir the pot » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:44 am

Rivershark wrote:The University venues are nice, but it's ridiculous to have to pay $4 for a box of popcorn or water. NDHSAA should have some stipulations when renting these facilities. A family of four could easily spend $75 a night.


At some of the small town district tournaments you can get a LARGE bag of popcorn for a $1 and their concession stands are awesome. Taco in a bag $4.50, ship wrecks $3.50, home made bars and cheese cake $1.00,sloppy joe $2.50, hot dogs $2.00,brats $2.50.chicken strips $3.00, potato wedges $3.00 and there is more.
I think each school tries to out do the other in the district where the tournaments are rotated.
There are some people that go to the games just to eat during the regular season.
Its a social event where people see people they have not seen since the last tournament and discuss what is going on in their town and what up with their team.
Yes a family four could spend $75 at a small town district tournament also, but the cheese cake is so GOOD and THEY JUST MADE THE POPCORN.
Forgot this is about basketball not FOOD.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby The Schwab » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:54 am

I might be in the minority on this one, but play-in games for super regional tournaments should be on the better seeds home floor.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby Flip » Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:58 am

Rivershark wrote:The University venues are nice, but it's ridiculous to have to pay $4 for a box of popcorn or water. NDHSAA should have some stipulations when renting these facilities. A family of four could easily spend $75 a night.

I never bought any popcorn, but those boxes were HUGE!
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby airmail » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:58 pm

Rivershark wrote:The University venues are nice, but it's ridiculous to have to pay $4 for a box of popcorn or water. NDHSAA should have some stipulations when renting these facilities. A family of four could easily spend $75 a night.


The Betty Engelstad Sioux Center is a great facility for the Region 2 kids to play in - just small enough to create a good atmosphere, and the venue is unarguably first class. I agree the concessions are ridiculous, though. It'd be nice if NDHSAA could help on that end.
That said - I'd still MUCH rather be at the Betty than at Mayville State or Grafton like in past years.

Regarding the whole super region question - I like it. Back in the district days, you had some teams playing each other up to four times (or more with double elimination?) in a season (again, speaking from experience in Region 2 only). The super region allows balanced competition throughout the season, lets team visit many other towns than they would have otherwise with a full district schedule. It generates more friendships and rivalries (yes - and also some enemies), which is what Class B ball is all about. I also like how the regional tournament is seeded based on the season's points system. It seems to work, IMO. R2 does the play-ins at the higher seed's home court - haven't heard much about that good or bad.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby wan2bqb » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:05 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
scc wrote:Region 1 does it the right way. The play-in games need to be at the tournament site. There's nothing particularly super about the tournament. It's just play-in games and an 8-team field. Changing the district tournaments to double-elimination is what ruined them.


Region 1 just needs to allow for 1 more Regular Season game (21 like R2 & R7 allow) and get that play-in round a little closer to the Region Tournament...instead of a week before...1 more Regular season game allowed could help with that gap. Top 3 seeds haven't played a game since February 9th.


I agree more games would allow for more diversity in scheduling. An eliminate allot of the lulls in the season. Force AD's to work harder at making scheduled but so what? 12 region games in region 1, one bonanza game (larger venue), one rivalry game so there is a home and away, one tournament (3 games), one traditional game with a rivalry from another district/region that maybe used to be a big game back in the day and that only leaves one game to schedule. Give them 3 more. Assuming you play 23, the play in (1), win the region(3), and make state (3). that's 30 games max over a 110 days, stretch it out 2 weeks to 124 days remove 9 practices from the start and you are averaging a game every 3.8 days or 2 a week. and its even less than that if the ! tournament, the regional, and state all play 3 games in 4 days or less. It wouldn't be so bad and the extra revenue stream would be good for the athletic depts. Or maybe I'm naïve which could be too.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:11 pm

I like the super region idea, but I don't think they have the correct format down yet. I'd like to see all the play-in games at one site on a Saturday, then play the final eight as it always is on Mon, Tues, Thurs. That way regions with 14 teams can still use the super region format by having more games on that Saturday. If it doesn't work to have all at the same neutral site due to weekend scheduling, let the region schools bid on holding that first day of games. That way the small towns still have a chance to make their money.

I also agree the double elim spelled the end of the districts, plus the loss of the number of teams. A single elim format makes for so much better atmosphere as it is win or go home. Playing 4 days of games to eliminate 2-3 teams just doesn't make sense and it all but ends the upset bids as the top team can easily play their way back into the region.

Another thing I like about the super regions is that it allows 2 more regular season games. Why region 1 limits that to 1, I don't know. Look at all the great non-region contests we had this year with the top teams travelling to play other top teams clear across the state. If all regions went to this, it would allow even more of it for that teams willing/wanting to do it. For the poorer teams it also allows them to find a few more winnable games against comparable competition.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby ProudPirate » Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:50 pm

I heard the cost of the SHAC is around $5000.00 Last season when Region 1 went to Scheels Arena for boys supers they lost money i believe, there is no way they can make money on this years girls tourney. Not taking anything away from the girls, it's just a costly venue. It's awesome to watch a game in, but so are some smaller gyms around. To me it gives you that small school feel when fans are right on the sidelines & the stands are full. Personally i like the home hosting the 'play-in' games. Its what you play the season for. Also like this year the girls that got the bye, didn't play for almost 1-1/2 weeks & the lower seeds got to play 1 more game on the big floor. That didn't come into play this season with the #1 & #3 seeds in championship, just making a point. Just my opinion.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby ReadyToPlay » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:32 am

Everyone is familiar of the district tournament atmosphere, with the pump up effect, elementary kids with signs, community hype, etc for at least two games if you are a down team. The words "District tournament" is an icon for excitement in us old folks.
Then entered the super region play-in format which is a cold as you will ever experience.
I went to a lone single play-in game at 7pm at night, and here was my result: I had to pay a $7 ticket, drove 40 miles, game was a blowout at halftime, never did get to the popcorn, and janitors were already leaf blowing the bleachers before I stepped out to the commons area. Just a fantastic time!
Really need to get a super region tournaments organized 2-3 days prior to Regional tournament as there are the bye teams not playing for 10 to 14 days. This could be within a super region team's venue that would care to put a bid in and that has the facility to accommodate.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby 74Magic » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:33 am

I might be a little late on this conversation but it seems to me that the obvious has not been discussed. Don't all the kids deserve a tournament experience? I understand the concern about lopsided games but these kids work hard all year and it's pretty rare that the challenge games for the 3rd and 4th region qualifier games are not competitive. As for lopsided games, if that's the motivation, one of the most lopsided games including the Region play in round was the championship game in Region 1.

Can anyone fill me in on what the motivation for this change was? Just curious. I'm a fan, not an administrator, so maybe there are other factors driving this decision but it sure seems obvious that it is not in the interest of the kids.

On the same note, if Districts must be gone, the least you can do is provide the kids with a tournament feel by playing all play in games at the Region Tournament site. Playing at higher seed's site is a slap in the face to the kids on the lower seeded teams who are likely going away a loser without even a taste of the tournament experience whatsoever. In my view, this is a terrible decision that needs to be reversed. I can see using this format once it gets down to 4 teams or so but in Region 1 at least, that is not the case.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby Flying Wallenda » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:55 am

74Magic wrote:I might be a little late on this conversation but it seems to me that the obvious has not been discussed. Don't all the kids deserve a tournament experience? I understand the concern about lopsided games but these kids work hard all year and it's pretty rare that the challenge games for the 3rd and 4th region qualifier games are not competitive. As for lopsided games, if that's the motivation, one of the most lopsided games including the Region play in round was the championship game in Region 1.

Can anyone fill me in on what the motivation for this change was? Just curious. I'm a fan, not an administrator, so maybe there are other factors driving this decision but it sure seems obvious that it is not in the interest of the kids.

On the same note, if Districts must be gone, the least you can do is provide the kids with a tournament feel by playing all play in games at the Region Tournament site. Playing at higher seed's site is a slap in the face to the kids on the lower seeded teams who are likely going away a loser without even a taste of the tournament experience whatsoever. In my view, this is a terrible decision that needs to be reversed. I can see using this format once it gets down to 4 teams or so but in Region 1 at least, that is not the case.

Motivation behind the change:
1) 3 days of tournaments to eliminate 2 teams in a 6 team district/3 in a 7 team district - cost/travel
2) Makes the majority of regular season games meaningful (13-14 regular season conference games typically)
3) Gain 2 extra regular season games which should guarantee an additional home game

The reason the opening play-in game isn't played at a neutral site is the facility rental ($5K +) plus other expenses makes it economically unfeasible.

The super region has worked well in region 2 IMO. I wouldn't mind seeing the opening round played on a neutral site, but completely understand why it isn't
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby Flip » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:34 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:DISTRICT 6
@ Napoleon
February 10th, 13th & 14th

Friday, February 10th
G1: #4 South Border def. #5 Linton-HMB 69-36
G2: #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter def. #6 Strasburg/Zeeland 60-21

Monday, February 13th
G3: #1 (RV) Kidder County def. #4 South Border 47-44
G4: #2 Medina/Pingree-Buchanan def. #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter 52-37

Tuesday, February 14th
Region Qualifier: #4 South Border def. #6 Strasburg/Zeeland 59-22
Region Qualifier: #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter def.. #5 Linton-HMB 56-37
Championship: #2 Medina/Pingree-Buchanan def. #1 (RV) Kidder County 34-27

1 - Medina/Pingree-Buchanan (16-5)
2 - (RV) Kidder County (16-5)
3 - Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter (14-8)
4 - South Border (10-12)

Example of A, of why regions are dumping districts.

Idea: what if you put the first round of your super region at one HS?
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby The Schwab » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:11 pm

Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:DISTRICT 6
@ Napoleon
February 10th, 13th & 14th

Friday, February 10th
G1: #4 South Border def. #5 Linton-HMB 69-36
G2: #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter def. #6 Strasburg/Zeeland 60-21

Monday, February 13th
G3: #1 (RV) Kidder County def. #4 South Border 47-44
G4: #2 Medina/Pingree-Buchanan def. #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter 52-37

Tuesday, February 14th
Region Qualifier: #4 South Border def. #6 Strasburg/Zeeland 59-22
Region Qualifier: #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter def.. #5 Linton-HMB 56-37
Championship: #2 Medina/Pingree-Buchanan def. #1 (RV) Kidder County 34-27

1 - Medina/Pingree-Buchanan (16-5)
2 - (RV) Kidder County (16-5)
3 - Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter (14-8)
4 - South Border (10-12)

Example of A, of why regions are dumping districts.

Idea: what if you put the first round of your super region at one HS?


I'd be in favor of super region first round at the site of the best seed playing in a play in game.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:17 pm

The Schwab wrote:
Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:DISTRICT 6
@ Napoleon
February 10th, 13th & 14th

Friday, February 10th
G1: #4 South Border def. #5 Linton-HMB 69-36
G2: #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter def. #6 Strasburg/Zeeland 60-21

Monday, February 13th
G3: #1 (RV) Kidder County def. #4 South Border 47-44
G4: #2 Medina/Pingree-Buchanan def. #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter 52-37

Tuesday, February 14th
Region Qualifier: #4 South Border def. #6 Strasburg/Zeeland 59-22
Region Qualifier: #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter def.. #5 Linton-HMB 56-37
Championship: #2 Medina/Pingree-Buchanan def. #1 (RV) Kidder County 34-27

1 - Medina/Pingree-Buchanan (16-5)
2 - (RV) Kidder County (16-5)
3 - Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter (14-8)
4 - South Border (10-12)

Example of A, of why regions are dumping districts.

Idea: what if you put the first round of your super region at one HS?


I'd be in favor of super region first round at the site of the best seed playing in a play in game.


I'd be in favor of holding both the first two rounds at a school site(s). That would give the schools a chance to make some money and keep expenses down. The move the semifinal and finals night to the Betty, SHAC, Dome, Civic, etc.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby The Schwab » Mon Apr 03, 2017 3:25 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
Flip wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:DISTRICT 6
@ Napoleon
February 10th, 13th & 14th

Friday, February 10th
G1: #4 South Border def. #5 Linton-HMB 69-36
G2: #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter def. #6 Strasburg/Zeeland 60-21

Monday, February 13th
G3: #1 (RV) Kidder County def. #4 South Border 47-44
G4: #2 Medina/Pingree-Buchanan def. #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter 52-37

Tuesday, February 14th
Region Qualifier: #4 South Border def. #6 Strasburg/Zeeland 59-22
Region Qualifier: #3 Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter def.. #5 Linton-HMB 56-37
Championship: #2 Medina/Pingree-Buchanan def. #1 (RV) Kidder County 34-27

1 - Medina/Pingree-Buchanan (16-5)
2 - (RV) Kidder County (16-5)
3 - Napoleon/Gackle-Streeter (14-8)
4 - South Border (10-12)

Example of A, of why regions are dumping districts.

Idea: what if you put the first round of your super region at one HS?


I'd be in favor of super region first round at the site of the best seed playing in a play in game.


I'd be in favor of holding both the first two rounds at a school site(s). That would give the schools a chance to make some money and keep expenses down. The move the semifinal and finals night to the Betty, SHAC, Dome, Civic, etc.


From everything I've been told this will NEVER happen, the NDHSAA is against holding the regional (final 8 teams) tournament at different venues.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby 74Magic » Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:43 pm

Thanks for the responses regarding reasons for going to a super region format. It appears that holding a District tournament is not a viable option at least on this site. I still like the idea of a District but if a super region is the only viable option, certainly holding the first (play-in) round at the location of the highest seed, or mutually agreed upon site, would be preferrable to being held at individual sites. Not all teams have a site suitable for an 8 or 10 team tournament.

I have no problem with some 30 point games in a District Tournament. First, what goes around comes around. And if the disparity in size is so great, well that's another issue. I realize you are going to have a couple games that may not be worth playing from a coaches stand point but I think from the perspective of the players and parents, they might have a different view.
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Re: Super Regions - Like or Dislike

Postby B-oldtimer » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:35 pm

I think the problem were having here is were still trying to have 8 regions for the whole state. I think we need to rethink this and maybe go down to maybe 4 regions from the state. Then what we call the super regions are new district or subregion tournaments. Also if we limited to 4 regions it would be possible to have both boy and girls state tournaments together and possible to have 3 classes of basketball where we wouldn't be having scheduling problems. Also these region tournaments would become quite a draw for fans. With only four teams in the state tournament for each boys and girls it would be a good tv draw also for weekend programing.
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