Rules Questions

North Dakota High School Football
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Rules Questions

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:24 am

Was wondering if someone could clarify a couple of rules:

1. When is "half the distance to the goal" determined for penalties? Is it different when the offensive team is ready to score and when the offensive team is backed up against the goal? Thought it was used when the penalized distance is greater than the distance to goal. However, have noticed it used when this is not the case. Are there different factors to be taken into account? Do different penalties create different uses of the rule?

2. Has the rule changed this year concerning personal fouls and automatic first downs? If so, could someone explain what the rule use to be and what it currently is.

3. Also, (for any officials out there) are there any other "points of emphasis" this year and/or any other notable rule changes made.

Thank you.
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby d_fense » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:27 pm

You can't be penalized more that 1/2 the distance to the goal line (other than pass interference penalty in the endzone, or any penalty you commit in your own endzone results in a safety). If you jump off sides when you opponent is going in from the 9, you are penalized 4.5 yards because the 5 yard penalty is more than half the distance to the endzone.
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:31 pm

Concerning the penalty of pass interference in the endzone. In high school, I thought it was a yardage penalty and didn't matter if it was in the endzone or not. Was thinking it was a 15 yard penalty, and replay of down if penalty didn't result in a first down. Is that correct?

Let me ask this:

1. 2nd down and 10 yards to go, and the offense is at the 29 yard line going in. They throw a pass into the endzone and there is a defensive pass interference in the endzone. Where is the ball spotted?
2. Same thing, but the QB had been sacked on first down. It is now 2nd down and 16 from the 35 with pass interference in the endzone. Where is the ball spotted and what down is it?
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:49 pm

New Rules for 2013 season for Pass Interference Calls:

PASS INTERFERENCE PENALTIES REVISED (7-5-10 PENALTY; Table 7-5): This rule change removes the automatic first down for defensive pass interference and the loss of down for offensive pass interference. The 15-yard penalty provision remains for both fouls.
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:58 pm

So applying that to the examples from above:

1. Ball is placed at the 14 1/2 yard line and result of spot is a first down. (Half the distance since penalty is more then half the distance to goal)

2. The ball is placed at the 20 yard line and it is now 3rd down? Or do they replay the down?
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Flip » Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:08 pm

yes and yes imo
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby The Schwab » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:05 am

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:So applying that to the examples from above:

1. Ball is placed at the 14 1/2 yard line and result of spot is a first down. (Half the distance since penalty is more then half the distance to goal)

2. The ball is placed at the 20 yard line and it is now 3rd down? Or do they replay the down?



I would think that for case number 2 it would be 2nd down.
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:32 am

I was thinking it use to be replay the down as well. Is it still that way? Will wait to hear if someone can confirm that.

My earlier question about the personal foul rule came from a situation I watched in a game this year. Went something like this:

The ball was on approximately the 4 yard line, with a 3rd and goal situation. Ball got by the QB and he went back and covered it around the 15. Defender is coming and after the ball is dead, dives on QB and receives a personal foul for late hit. The ball was placed around the the 7.5 yard line and I believe the down was replayed. So essentially they lost 3.5 yards but did get to replay the down. I am guessing the intent of the rule is to penalize the offense for the bad snap while also penalizing the defense for the personal foul.

My personal opinion is that without granting an automatic first down for certain personal fouls, it could create some dangerous hits with little penalty in certain situations. Opinions?
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby The Schwab » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:06 am

I always thought that a personal foul was an automatic first down. My opinion would be that if they changed the rule, they need to change it back to automatic first down.
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:30 am

I believe I found the ruling. A new set of downs will be granted in the cases of roughing the passer, snapper or kicker. From last year, a new set of downs will no longer be granted for defensive pass interference. So, in the play that i witnessed, the QB would have been considered a runner therefore no new set of downs.

So, this would bring up another question: If a RB was tackled by his face mask or horse collared 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage, even though it's a personal foul, they would lose 5 yards but would get to replay the down?
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Mailman_25 » Wed Oct 02, 2013 9:34 pm

Another rules question for you...

Team A is punting. Player A enters the endzone while downing ball inside the 1 yard line. Is this a touch back?
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Flip » Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:40 pm

Mailman_25 wrote:Another rules question for you...

Team A is punting. Player A enters the endzone while downing ball inside the 1 yard line. Is this a touch back?

if he is in the end zone while touching the ball I believe it should be a touch back.
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Baller » Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:41 am

Mailman_25 wrote:Another rules question for you...

Team A is punting. Player A enters the endzone while downing ball inside the 1 yard line. Is this a touch back?



It is not a touch back. Unlike the NFL, the position of the player’s body does not matter. It is where the ball is when it is down
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Stormtrooper » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:48 am

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:1. When is "half the distance to the goal" determined for penalties? Is it different when the offensive team is ready to score and when the offensive team is backed up against the goal? Thought it was used when the penalized distance is greater than the distance to goal. However, have noticed it used when this is not the case. Are there different factors to be taken into account? Do different penalties create different uses of the rule?


Always half the distance. For 15y penalties this happens inside the 30 yard line. For 10y penalties this happens inside the 20 yard line. For 5y penalties this happens inside the 10 yard line.
Unlike NCAA and NFL, there are no special enforcement for fouls against the defense in their own end zone. A foul by the offense in their own end zone is a safety.

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:2. Has the rule changed this year concerning personal fouls and automatic first downs? If so, could someone explain what the rule use to be and what it currently is.


No, not all personal fouls are or have ever been auto-1st in high school. A subset of personal fouls called roughing fouls are auto-1st (roughing passer, kicker, holder, long snapper).
You may have been confused by this year's change to pass interference. Starting in 2013, DPI is no longer an auto-1st. Likewise, OPI is no longer loss of down.

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:3. Also, (for any officials out there) are there any other "points of emphasis" this year and/or any other notable rule changes made.


Points of emphasis are contact to and with the head.

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:1. 2nd down and 10 yards to go, and the offense is at the 29 yard line going in. They throw a pass into the endzone and there is a defensive pass interference in the endzone. Where is the ball spotted?


Half the distance to the 14.5. Yardage is enough for a 1st so 1/10 for team A there.

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:2. Same thing, but the QB had been sacked on first down. It is now 2nd down and 16 from the 35 with pass interference in the endzone. Where is the ball spotted and what down is it?


15y penalty to the 20. Yardage is NOT enough for a 1st so replay 2nd. 2/1 for team A at the 20.

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:If a RB was tackled by his face mask or horse collared 20 yards behind the line of scrimmage, even though it's a personal foul, they would lose 5 yards but would get to replay the down?


You are correct. The penalty would be from the end of the run in your example, 20y behind the line, going ahead 15y from there then replaying the down. So yes, the offense would have lost yardage and replayed the down.
An odd part of the rules is that if the RB fumbles the ball behind the line of scrimmage while being face masked, the penalty is from the previous spot. The reason is somewhat technical, but has to do with the distinction between running plays and loose-ball plays (which are passes and fumbles behind line).

Mailman_25 wrote:Team A is punting. Player A enters the endzone while downing ball inside the 1 yard line. Is this a touch back?


Only the ball matters in high school. The moment the ball crosses the goal line it is a touchback. A punt team member may be entirely in the end zone with just his arm sticking out to stop the ball. Also in high school, the punt team may not leap into the end zone and knock an airborne ball back into the field of play since it is already a touchback by that time.
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 1:49 pm

I understand that when a player's helmet comes off they have to take a play off on the sideline...but is there an exception for that rule if a player's helmet gets ripped off at the bottom of a pile by an opposing player?? (yes this happened in a ND game this year)
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Stormtrooper » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:56 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:I understand that when a player's helmet comes off they have to take a play off on the sideline...but is there an exception for that rule if a player's helmet gets ripped off at the bottom of a pile by an opposing player?? (yes this happened in a ND game this year)


Yes, there is an exception. If the opposing team is directly responsible for the helmet coming off and flagged, then the player does not have to sit. Absent a flag on the ground, the player must sit.

If a no-helmet player does have to sit, the coach cannot "buy him back in" using a team timeout in high school.
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Re: Rules Questions

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:58 pm

Stormtrooper wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:I understand that when a player's helmet comes off they have to take a play off on the sideline...but is there an exception for that rule if a player's helmet gets ripped off at the bottom of a pile by an opposing player?? (yes this happened in a ND game this year)


Yes, there is an exception. If the opposing team is directly responsible for the helmet coming off and flagged, then the player does not have to sit. Absent a flag on the ground, the player must sit.

If a no-helmet player does have to sit, the coach cannot "buy him back in" using a team timeout in high school.


ok...so since the officials didn't throw a flag he had to come out. Understandable...I just couldn't believe there wasn't a flag on the play.
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