oldcoach2 wrote:Kids just have too many options the couch, the gamebox, and activites if someone decides that they dont like football they quit and go play soccer, then decide they dont like that and do something else. They dont WORK AT IT and get better. In some of the larger schools wrestling programs are pulling 7th and 8th graders to wrestle varsity NOT because of numbers but to put the top competitors on the mat and push a freshman or sophmore to JV so that the TEAM can win. In basketball way too many underclass kids on varsity rosters The chosen ones are placed on the varsity due to poltics and names. Kids see the writing on the wall early on and decide its not worth the effort to try because they cannt out shoot or out defend poltics and "chosen one" sydrome.
Hinsa wrote:I agree that there is a rush to get junior high kids to play varsity. Look at the Girls State B - it seemed like every team had at least one 8th grader playing a major role on the team. That might be good for the short term, but in the long run it will kill your program. The freshmen, sophmores, and juniors that the 8th grader by-passed are going to give it up and you end up with 10 kids on the varsity.
Coaches need to take a good look at their overall program before moving junior high kids up. Will that 8th grader start? Will they be the difference in getting to state or getting a state title? Is there a 9-11 grader who can do the job instead?
To have a solid PROGRAM, you need numbers. Moving up 8th graders kills numbers. Short term gain for long term pain.
Bisonguy06 wrote:Hinsa wrote:I agree that there is a rush to get junior high kids to play varsity. Look at the Girls State B - it seemed like every team had at least one 8th grader playing a major role on the team. That might be good for the short term, but in the long run it will kill your program. The freshmen, sophmores, and juniors that the 8th grader by-passed are going to give it up and you end up with 10 kids on the varsity.
Coaches need to take a good look at their overall program before moving junior high kids up. Will that 8th grader start? Will they be the difference in getting to state or getting a state title? Is there a 9-11 grader who can do the job instead?
To have a solid PROGRAM, you need numbers. Moving up 8th graders kills numbers. Short term gain for long term pain.
I couldn't disagree more. Beach won a state girls title this year by moving up a group of talented girls to the varsity in 2007 when they were freshmen and 8th graders. The core of that team has played 3-4 years of varsity basketball and it paid off big time.
They will be favorites in their region next year and will have an excellent PG running the show for four more years.
You need 5-6 studs to have success. If you have success, the numbers will take care of themselves. Beach had 5 seniors this year, 3 of whom were basically just hard-working kids who were along for the ride and wanted to be part of the team even though they knew they wouldn't play much.
If a talented young player can handle being moved up without getting a big head, you bump them up. If a senior and an 8th grader are equals on the basketball court, I'd play the 8th grader every day and twice on Sunday.
Want to be good? Trot out an all senior starting lineup every year. Want to be great? Move your best young players up to the highest level that they can compete.
old#63 wrote:Bisonguy06 wrote:Hinsa wrote:I agree that there is a rush to get junior high kids to play varsity. Look at the Girls State B - it seemed like every team had at least one 8th grader playing a major role on the team. That might be good for the short term, but in the long run it will kill your program. The freshmen, sophmores, and juniors that the 8th grader by-passed are going to give it up and you end up with 10 kids on the varsity.
Coaches need to take a good look at their overall program before moving junior high kids up. Will that 8th grader start? Will they be the difference in getting to state or getting a state title? Is there a 9-11 grader who can do the job instead?
To have a solid PROGRAM, you need numbers. Moving up 8th graders kills numbers. Short term gain for long term pain.
I couldn't disagree more. Beach won a state girls title this year by moving up a group of talented girls to the varsity in 2007 when they were freshmen and 8th graders. The core of that team has played 3-4 years of varsity basketball and it paid off big time.
They will be favorites in their region next year and will have an excellent PG running the show for four more years.
You need 5-6 studs to have success. If you have success, the numbers will take care of themselves. Beach had 5 seniors this year, 3 of whom were basically just hard-working kids who were along for the ride and wanted to be part of the team even though they knew they wouldn't play much.
If a talented young player can handle being moved up without getting a big head, you bump them up. If a senior and an 8th grader are equals on the basketball court, I'd play the 8th grader every day and twice on Sunday.
Want to be good? Trot out an all senior starting lineup every year. Want to be great? Move your best young players up to the highest level that they can compete.
And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. The reason for lack of participation in high school sports. All that matters is winning. To heck with teaching values. Don't consider the fact that the senior has put in years of practice, done everything you asked them to do, SIT 'EM. Go ahead and play the eighth grader so that in 4 years we can have a great team. Or co-op with a nearby district to get some more talent. We're never gonna win with these kids anyway, right? What message does that send to the marginal kid who is a sophomore? "I may as well quit right now", that's what it says. Ever occur to anybody that maybe the reason most kids want to play sports is they just want to be with their friends? It's when you take that away and make it all about winning that most kids just don't care. And I don't blame them.
Bisonguy06 wrote:old#63 wrote:Bisonguy06 wrote:Hinsa wrote:I agree that there is a rush to get junior high kids to play varsity. Look at the Girls State B - it seemed like every team had at least one 8th grader playing a major role on the team. That might be good for the short term, but in the long run it will kill your program. The freshmen, sophmores, and juniors that the 8th grader by-passed are going to give it up and you end up with 10 kids on the varsity.
Coaches need to take a good look at their overall program before moving junior high kids up. Will that 8th grader start? Will they be the difference in getting to state or getting a state title? Is there a 9-11 grader who can do the job instead?
To have a solid PROGRAM, you need numbers. Moving up 8th graders kills numbers. Short term gain for long term pain.
I couldn't disagree more. Beach won a state girls title this year by moving up a group of talented girls to the varsity in 2007 when they were freshmen and 8th graders. The core of that team has played 3-4 years of varsity basketball and it paid off big time.
They will be favorites in their region next year and will have an excellent PG running the show for four more years.
You need 5-6 studs to have success. If you have success, the numbers will take care of themselves. Beach had 5 seniors this year, 3 of whom were basically just hard-working kids who were along for the ride and wanted to be part of the team even though they knew they wouldn't play much.
If a talented young player can handle being moved up without getting a big head, you bump them up. If a senior and an 8th grader are equals on the basketball court, I'd play the 8th grader every day and twice on Sunday.
Want to be good? Trot out an all senior starting lineup every year. Want to be great? Move your best young players up to the highest level that they can compete.
And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. The reason for lack of participation in high school sports. All that matters is winning. To heck with teaching values. Don't consider the fact that the senior has put in years of practice, done everything you asked them to do, SIT 'EM. Go ahead and play the eighth grader so that in 4 years we can have a great team. Or co-op with a nearby district to get some more talent. We're never gonna win with these kids anyway, right? What message does that send to the marginal kid who is a sophomore? "I may as well quit right now", that's what it says. Ever occur to anybody that maybe the reason most kids want to play sports is they just want to be with their friends? It's when you take that away and make it all about winning that most kids just don't care. And I don't blame them.
I guess we're back to handing out participations to everyone instead of teaching kids to compete to become their very best. What message are you sending if your freshman beats your senior up and down the court every day in practice and you continue to play the senior?
GRIDIRON GURU wrote:This has turned into a girls basketball topic. You will never keep girls or moms happy no matter what in high school girls basketball, if a stud freshman who is heads and tails better than any senior on the team sits on the bench or plays JV it's a crying shame. It's varstiy sports for crying out loud, play your best players, it is all about winning, anyone whos says it's not is living a lie.
You will always have a little miss stuff pants who comes home crying to mommy when a younger girl starts over her, it happens in every girls program everywhere in the nation. It's nothing new.
In basketball you don't need numbers you need talent all you need is 4 kids per class committed to the team.
Now football is all about numbers and you need partcipation, but unfortunatly you have whimps who, would rather quit because they refuse to lift weights or do anything extra to help themselves or the team so they use the cop out of saving themselves for basketball then never pick up a basketball until November.
old#63 wrote:Bisonguy06 wrote:Hinsa wrote:I agree that there is a rush to get junior high kids to play varsity. Look at the Girls State B - it seemed like every team had at least one 8th grader playing a major role on the team. That might be good for the short term, but in the long run it will kill your program. The freshmen, sophmores, and juniors that the 8th grader by-passed are going to give it up and you end up with 10 kids on the varsity.
Coaches need to take a good look at their overall program before moving junior high kids up. Will that 8th grader start? Will they be the difference in getting to state or getting a state title? Is there a 9-11 grader who can do the job instead?
To have a solid PROGRAM, you need numbers. Moving up 8th graders kills numbers. Short term gain for long term pain.
I couldn't disagree more. Beach won a state girls title this year by moving up a group of talented girls to the varsity in 2007 when they were freshmen and 8th graders. The core of that team has played 3-4 years of varsity basketball and it paid off big time.
They will be favorites in their region next year and will have an excellent PG running the show for four more years.
You need 5-6 studs to have success. If you have success, the numbers will take care of themselves. Beach had 5 seniors this year, 3 of whom were basically just hard-working kids who were along for the ride and wanted to be part of the team even though they knew they wouldn't play much.
If a talented young player can handle being moved up without getting a big head, you bump them up. If a senior and an 8th grader are equals on the basketball court, I'd play the 8th grader every day and twice on Sunday.
Want to be good? Trot out an all senior starting lineup every year. Want to be great? Move your best young players up to the highest level that they can compete.
And there you have it, ladies and gentlemen. The reason for lack of participation in high school sports. All that matters is winning. To heck with teaching values. Don't consider the fact that the senior has put in years of practice, done everything you asked them to do, SIT 'EM. Go ahead and play the eighth grader so that in 4 years we can have a great team. Or co-op with a nearby district to get some more talent. We're never gonna win with these kids anyway, right? What message does that send to the marginal kid who is a sophomore? "I may as well quit right now", that's what it says. Ever occur to anybody that maybe the reason most kids want to play sports is they just want to be with their friends? It's when you take that away and make it all about winning that most kids just don't care. And I don't blame them.
ndlionsfan wrote:I agree with a lot of what your'e saying GURU. When I was coaching my belief was not to play a freshmen on the varsity unless he could make an impact and absolutely, without a doubt help the team. I'd rather have him/her play with the other kids in the class to develop skills and build team chemistry for the future. I was very cautious about ever giving a freshmen a varsity jersey as well. I wanted to see each kid earn it in another year or two, knowing they had to work for that reward and keep working to stay on the varsity. the coach after I left put 5 freshmen on the varsity the next year ahead of some sophomores and juniors. What has happened since? Numbers have dropped off as those soph/juniors that got looked over quit and the freshmen that got moved up haven't improved because they didn't work on their game....they already had the jersery. When I quit 4 years ago I had 20 kids out and it has dropped to where they were only projected to have 8-9 players this year (ended up with 12 out) and are co-oping next year. There are still the same number in high school now as there was 5 years ago.
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