Devils Lake or the Field

[RiverMiner99]

I think it would be best to adjust the formula long before the 24-25 season starts, like this year.

You are exactly right. If they plan to handle this on a case-by-case basis, it will turn into a circus. Define why you would deny or accept a school's appeal. If they will deny Devils Lakes because they used to be A in the 2-class system, just put that in writing. If you are going to accept South Prairie girls appeal because of their enrollment, put the enrollment number that is needed to have your appeal accepted. If you are going to accept the Thompson girls appeal because they will be losing 80% of their scoring, put that in writing.

The most important thing they could do is address this before it happens. Waiting will only cause a larger issue.

My opinion is get rid of any success factor moving teams up as well as any petitioning down. Set the enrollment number and play ball. If there is an issue with certain teams the issue is likely the enrollment numbers used or how to handle the private schools.

[olufsen2022]

It doesn't specifically say what they'll look at when hearing an appeal but I assume these are items that will be considered:
a. Competitive history and balance
b. Geography
c. School’s enrollment trend
d. Student participation rate
e. Socioeconomic factors of the school’s population
f. Retention and mobility rate of school’s population
g. Additional information unique to school community

You can put money on "Geography" being the reason Devils Lake would win an appeal. AA Fargo schools don't want to waste their time going to Devils Lake to play when they can get 90% of their games within the metro area and the rest straight down the interstate in one direction or the other. That's a big reason why they wanted DL and TM out of their class to begin with.

[Flip]

It doesn't specifically say what they'll look at when hearing an appeal but I assume these are items that will be considered:
a. Competitive history and balance
b. Geography
c. School’s enrollment trend
d. Student participation rate
e. Socioeconomic factors of the school’s population
f. Retention and mobility rate of school’s population
g. Additional information unique to school community

You can put money on "Geography" being the reason Devils Lake would win an appeal. AA Fargo schools don't want to waste their time going to Devils Lake to play when they can get 90% of their games within the metro area and the rest straight down the interstate in one direction or the other. That's a big reason why they wanted DL and TM out of their class to begin with.

I would put a lot of money against them winning an appeal. No one in DL thinks they're winning an appeal.

[olufsen2022]

It doesn't specifically say what they'll look at when hearing an appeal but I assume these are items that will be considered:
a. Competitive history and balance
b. Geography
c. School’s enrollment trend
d. Student participation rate
e. Socioeconomic factors of the school’s population
f. Retention and mobility rate of school’s population
g. Additional information unique to school community

You can put money on "Geography" being the reason Devils Lake would win an appeal. AA Fargo schools don't want to waste their time going to Devils Lake to play when they can get 90% of their games within the metro area and the rest straight down the interstate in one direction or the other. That's a big reason why they wanted DL and TM out of their class to begin with.

I would put a lot of money against them winning an appeal. No one in DL thinks they're winning an appeal.

I worded that poorly. I meant if they were to win an appeal, that would be a major reason. As far as how everything else has gone, nothing would surprise me though. If the success points are what they plan to use, I agree it would be very hard to believe DL would win an appeal if they place in the top 2 again next year. AA will do whatever they can to keep DL in the middle division though.

[The Schwab]

If Kindred and DL have enough success points to move them up and they are in the top half of enrollment in their classification I do not think a reasonable argument could be made to not move them up. That is the point of the success points. If they are not going to be made up then I would have some serious questions.

[UncleRico]

I still haven't heard a single good argument as to why the 8th/9th/10th graders at a given school, who for the most part had absolutely nothing to do with any success a program might have had over a 2-3 year period, should be made to pay the price for the success of those who came before them? These programs will all have ebbs and flows. Look at Central Cass this year, last year they were undefeated. This year they weren't even .500 with mostly the same core of players.

So to make everyone who lost to them last year feel better, we'll just make the younger kids coming up in that school pay the piper? How does that make any sense? Put the schools where they belong enrollment-wise, and roll the ball out. Let's play ball.

[packers21]

I still haven't heard a single good argument as to why the 8th/9th/10th graders at a given school, who for the most part had absolutely nothing to do with any success a program might have had over a 2-3 year period, should be made to pay the price for the success of those who came before them? These programs will all have ebbs and flows. Look at Central Cass this year, last year they were undefeated. This year they weren't even .500 with mostly the same core of players.

So to make everyone who lost to them last year feel better, we'll just make the younger kids coming up in that school pay the piper? How does that make any sense? Put the schools where they belong enrollment-wise, and roll the ball out. Let's play ball.

They did it to schools like carrington and south prairie to force them into the 3 class.

[BasketballMind]

The TBD sections of the 3-class plan are going to be tested after next year. Kindred's boys could be moved up, Thompson's girls could be moved up, and both Devils Lake teams should get moved back up. To my knowledge, the old "B" schools start with a clean slate, so nobody would be moving up based on their success points before the 3-class system.

[maddog1971]

I think it should be a points over a 4 year period and reviewed to see if the team can compete at the next level. A Team like Kindred, after next year has no chance of competing in the EDC. They won't win a game even though they might have the best player in the state on their team. A team like Kindred belongs in a middle class but someone like Devils Lake is on the edge of going either way... BUT I believe everything right now in the middle class is as fair as it gets.

Only problem I have is that Minot Private needs to be in the middle class.

[packers21]

I think it should be a points over a 4 year period and reviewed to see if the team can compete at the next level. A Team like Kindred, after next year has no chance of competing in the EDC. They won't win a game even though they might have the best player in the state on their team. A team like Kindred belongs in a middle class but someone like Devils Lake is on the edge of going either way... BUT I believe everything right now in the middle class is as fair as it gets.

Only problem I have is that Minot Private needs to be in the middle class.

Ahh yes, the classic its great until its my team that starts getting the short end.

[bk1990]

I think it should be a points over a 4 year period and reviewed to see if the team can compete at the next level. A Team like Kindred, after next year has no chance of competing in the EDC. They won't win a game even though they might have the best player in the state on their team. A team like Kindred belongs in a middle class but someone like Devils Lake is on the edge of going either way... BUT I believe everything right now in the middle class is as fair as it gets.

Only problem I have is that Minot Private needs to be in the middle class.

And who gets to review the teams to see if someone has to move to another class, the experts who put this system together? The system is in place, let it be, your enrollment is what it is, live with it. Programs will go through cycles, sometimes competitive, other times not so much, that's life. People got their wish, the 3 class system is in place, some would say it was a success. The small towns made it to state, the DL's and Valley Cities got to state, the Fargo schools didn't have to drive to Devils Lake (only have to go once a year), even though some have no problem driving to the Cities to play some games, Minot took their boys and girls to Sioux Falls for one game, so saying Devils Lake is to far is a pretty poor excuse. It seems the big hang up is teams that may have to move up next year if they do well next year, Kindred boys, DL boys and girls. Throw in South Prairie girls, even Westhope boys, they get to the semi's at a minimum next year - 6 points -move them up. Before someone brings up the appeal process, I say this tongue in cheek, 6 points is not enough for a 3 year total, but by the letter of the rule, they would be in that situation. Heaven forbid Bishop Ryan wins state next year, they would have the 6 points also. I could easily see them against Westhope next year for the championship, Ryan brings back two all state second team players, and were the only team to beat Westhope this year -twice. Westhope brings back virtually their entire team plus a First Team All State selection. Wouldn't that be fun, they both are in the position where they have the success points to move up, both appeal as both rosters will have a complete turnover - Like Kindred will next year. Would Ryan's appeal be denied while Westhope and Kindreds are approved? I would love to hear the rational from NDHSAA if Ryan was denied while the others approved - grab the popcorn and watch the show!

[BasketballMind]

I want to be surprised maddog shoehorned a dig at Bishop Ryan, but at this point I'd be more surprised if he didn't.

[Region 1 Fan]

I think it should be a points over a 4 year period and reviewed to see if the team can compete at the next level. A Team like Kindred, after next year has no chance of competing in the EDC. They won't win a game even though they might have the best player in the state on their team. A team like Kindred belongs in a middle class but someone like Devils Lake is on the edge of going either way... BUT I believe everything right now in the middle class is as fair as it gets.

Only problem I have is that Minot Private needs to be in the middle class.

I agree that the alignment right now with the 3 classes is as good as it could be. I would keep everything based on enrollment and NOT have a point system that penalizes a school that happened to have 2 or 3 really strong years. Bishop Ryan, based on enrollment should be in "B" even though they have a very successful program. DL, Valley City and Wahpeton should all be in AA based on enrollment. I do find it funny how you ride both sides with Kindred however. They have had a very successful 5 or 6 year stretch and they will be very good next year. They will come back to the pack a bit in a couple of years however and they shouldn't be penalized by having a couple of outstanding years. Only way they should be moved up to AA is if their enrollment continues to climb to a level that would indicate they would need to move up a level. I was fine with the 2 class system and am one that didn't think that going to 3 classes would increase participation as kids have many other opportunities outside of sports these days to occupy their time. I watched the AA, A and B State Tourney and in my opinion, the B was the most fun to watch, along with the best atmosphere (not the best overall basketball play however)- Braaten, is a tremendously talented player and would compete at any level of HS ball.

[maddog1971]

I think it should be a points over a 4 year period and reviewed to see if the team can compete at the next level. A Team like Kindred, after next year has no chance of competing in the EDC. They won't win a game even though they might have the best player in the state on their team. A team like Kindred belongs in a middle class but someone like Devils Lake is on the edge of going either way... BUT I believe everything right now in the middle class is as fair as it gets.

Only problem I have is that Minot Private needs to be in the middle class.

Ahh yes, the classic its great until its my team that starts getting the short end.

I never complained about anything except Minot Ryan. I have said forever Kindred does not belong in Class B but they sure don't belong in the EDC either. I am for the 3 Class system and I think that is where Kindred belongs no matter how many games they win or they don't win. I think Devils Lake is one of those schools on the edge.... Kinda like a Minot Ryan... They can play up and be very good but they will dominate at the lower level.