Miss Basketball and Senior Athlete of the Year

[The Schwab]

Any opinions on who will win SAOTY for each region and the state? Any thoughts on the class B Miss Basketball finalists?

[balla45]

Sam Oase really stands out to me in Class B.

Class A I would say Julia Fitterer and Ryleigh Wacha.

[defensewinsgames]

Region 2 will come down to Carlee Sieben of Grafton or Mackenzie Hughes of Thompson.

These two are head and shoulders above the rest of the region in stats and performance IMO. I would give it to Hughes over Sieben for a variety of reasons, the biggest of which is the team around them and their impact on it. One of those two players raises the whole team into region contention and without her they would be middle of the road and if you take the other one off their team would still be the top team in the region. I also think some teams are going to have a bad taste in their mouth from Grafton's insisting on running the scores up, pressing when it is already 40+ points etc....I'm not saying I think it should be that way, I'm just saying I think that will play a factor.

[airmail]

I would give it to Hughes over Sieben for a variety of reasons.... I also think some teams are going to have a bad taste in their mouth from Grafton's insisting on running the scores up, pressing when it is already 40+ points etc....

Agree with you here. Saw Sieben get her 2000th point yesterday, but my first thought was how many of those came in the 4th quarter of blowouts while other kids of equal talent are sitting in that situation. Seen it way too many times over the past 5 seasons.
(Personally, I think Julia Dusek is the best player on the Grafton squad anyway. )

Hughes should get it in Region 2 hands down - maybe Miss B also if you look at her career performance. Just waiting for the cop-out and giving a co-recipient award.

[The Schwab]

I would say that Sam Oase will be a Miss Basketball finalist. She was first team all state as a sophomore and junior. I would assume that one or both of the girls from Region 2 will be finalists. Not sure if Schmidt from KC will be one as I'm not sure of what kind of season she's having this year. She was first team as a sophomore and 2nd as a junior.

[Flip]

I'm biased towards Hughes. I'm not sure if there are any class B seniors better than her. Oase might be better. I haven't seen her play enough.

[defensewinsgames]

Agree with you here. Saw Sieben get her 2000th point yesterday, but my first thought was how many of those came in the 4th quarter of blowouts while other kids of equal talent are sitting in that situation. Seen it way too many times over the past 5 seasons.
(Personally, I think Julia Dusek is the best player on the Grafton squad anyway. )

Hughes should get it in Region 2 hands down - maybe Miss B also if you look at her career performance. Just waiting for the cop-out and giving a co-recipient award.

Yup! I think this is going to be a great example of where you think the extra points and stats will help a case for post season awards so you play them when you shouldn't and instead all it has done is create animosity and frustration so will actually hurt the player. Coaches aren't dumb enough to be sheeped by the stats when they know how those points came.

[Flip]

Agree with you here. Saw Sieben get her 2000th point yesterday, but my first thought was how many of those came in the 4th quarter of blowouts while other kids of equal talent are sitting in that situation. Seen it way too many times over the past 5 seasons.

It's also the games when they're up 40 at halftime and Sieben played 16 minutes in the first half. Her teammates help so much too. She can leak out after almost every shot because they're still going to get a defensive rebound. The perimeter players can gamble as much as they want on defense because Demers is probably the best rim protector in class B.

But make no mistake Carlee Sieben is a VERY good player.

(Personally, I think Julia Dusek is the best player on the Grafton squad anyway. )

A very respected person in region 2 told me the same thing. I'm not sure Dusek is better than Demers.

[GOPACKGO!!!]

Agree with you here. Saw Sieben get her 2000th point yesterday, but my first thought was how many of those came in the 4th quarter of blowouts while other kids of equal talent are sitting in that situation. Seen it way too many times over the past 5 seasons.

It's also the games when they're up 40 at halftime and Sieben played 16 minutes in the first half. Her teammates help so much too. She can leak out after almost every shot because they're still going to get a defensive rebound. The perimeter players can gamble as much as they want on defense because Demers is probably the best rim protector in class B.

But make no mistake Carlee Sieben is a VERY good player.

(Personally, I think Julia Dusek is the best player on the Grafton squad anyway. )

A very respected person in region 2 told me the same thing. I'm not sure Dusek is better than Demers.

It's fun just watching Sieben warm up before the game. The kid rarely misses and seems to follow a routine when I seen her. I also thought of her for senior athlete of the year but I don't know who is all in the lineup.

[defensewinsgames]

I totally agree that Sieben is a heck of a player and clearly has put in a ton of work. I didn't mean to belittle or detract from what she has done. She is clearly in that top tier of players in the region and state. When you have multiple good candidates though something has to create separation and I think the way Grafton handles their wins will create that separation.

[BasketballMind]

A week removed from the Region tournaments and everything said in this thread about Region 2 came true. If you look at the two players in question fairly it's probably pretty close to 50/50. Poor coaching etiquette, zero self-awareness, and padding stats in 50 point blowouts had a factor in the voting and may have cost Carlee the award. Hughes may win it anyway, and they're both fantastic basketball players, so this isn't taking away from one or the other. However, Jason Brend doesn't go out with the intention of embarrassing opponents that aren't at Thompson's level. If you're a coach voting on this award and you watched Sieben shoot lay-ups off their press up 40 in the third quarter, human nature is going to make you want to vote against that. Hopefully this is a lesson for her and not something she doubles down on.

[BelfieldBantams]

I would hope that whoever votes for this would vote on more than just stats. I've seen both play multiple times over the last few years and while both are very good basketball players, I was more impressed with Hughes. Now that might be partially because (especially this year) Sieben has more around her than Hughes, but I thought Sieben would go through stages where you didn't even notice she was there. Whereas with Hughes, it was very obvious the other team had to account for her at all times. Also just due to speed, I thought Hughes skill set was a little more than Sieben's.

[ChickenNuggets]

Very interesting topic and takes on it... I have seen a number of times when kids in football get passed over for post-season accolades because they play on tremendous teams and they only put up 24 minutes of stats and the starters get pulled at halftime. I've seen a number of kids/coaches get chastised because they play their starters more in a blowout than what other deem necessary. Here's my honest opinion on this:

These teams/players who are very good and outmatch many or all of their opponents didn't just wake up one day with this level of ability. They have obviously put in many hours in the offseason. I've been around sports for long enough to know that not every player/team puts in this type of effort. So when a team becomes dominant because of all the work that they put in, because they love the sport, because they're willing to sacrifice other things in their life for extra drills, extra lifts, extra summer camps, extra open gyms... why are we going to punish them or make them feel bad if they play in the second half of a lop-sided game? I just don't understand the mind-set that many have that "Hey you guys are really good because you work so hard, so because you've done so much more than everyone else in your region when it comes to this particular game that you love and no one else can do it as good as you, you probably should not play a full game. Play less, Play only half of the game so that the people who DO NOT put in the same time and effort as you do all year long can have their fun because that's "Sportsmanship"... No, that's BS! If a kid/team is putting in that much more because they love basketball, football, volleyball, etc... then they deserve to play four full quarters of every game they have on their schedule. Why should the stats that they accrue when they're up 30-40 points be worth any less than the stats that they accrue in the first half while they're building that monstrous lead? Why should the stats that they accrue with a 30-40 point lead count any less just because the players on the team in the town over isn't good enough to build a big lead so they're in close games all the time?

I don't have a dog in this fight. I know I've never seen Oase play and I've seen Sieben or Hughes maybe once or twice, and I don't even follow basketball very closely to begin with, but I am a fan of sports and I appreciate the work that the elite level athletes put into their games, so I just think it's pure BS to downplay what someone is able to do just because their opponents aren't good enough to stop them. Quit punishing kids for becoming too good! Instead of calling out "Coaching etiquette" of the coach who leads her team to blow-out wins, maybe we should hold accountable the coaches of the teams who don't put in enough work to be able to keep it close with these teams like Grafton. I bet the girls on the Grafton team who win a lot of blow-outs probably give up a lot of time at the lake (or other fun activities) in the summers to go to camps, play travel leagues, go to open gyms, etc. and I bet that the teams that they're "Beating by 40-50 points and padding their stats against" are spending a lot more time at the lake than they are shooting baskets. But come winter, dammit, Grafton's players should only play half-games because they're too good and the other teams can't do what they are doing.

Rant over....

[packers21]

Very interesting topic and takes on it... I have seen a number of times when kids in football get passed over for post-season accolades because they play on tremendous teams and they only put up 24 minutes of stats and the starters get pulled at halftime. I've seen a number of kids/coaches get chastised because they play their starters more in a blowout than what other deem necessary. Here's my honest opinion on this:

These teams/players who are very good and outmatch many or all of their opponents didn't just wake up one day with this level of ability. They have obviously put in many hours in the offseason. I've been around sports for long enough to know that not every player/team puts in this type of effort. So when a team becomes dominant because of all the work that they put in, because they love the sport, because they're willing to sacrifice other things in their life for extra drills, extra lifts, extra summer camps, extra open gyms... why are we going to punish them or make them feel bad if they play in the second half of a lop-sided game? I just don't understand the mind-set that many have that "Hey you guys are really good because you work so hard, so because you've done so much more than everyone else in your region when it comes to this particular game that you love and no one else can do it as good as you, you probably should not play a full game. Play less, Play only half of the game so that the people who DO NOT put in the same time and effort as you do all year long can have their fun because that's "Sportsmanship"... No, that's BS! If a kid/team is putting in that much more because they love basketball, football, volleyball, etc... then they deserve to play four full quarters of every game they have on their schedule. Why should the stats that they accrue when they're up 30-40 points be worth any less than the stats that they accrue in the first half while they're building that monstrous lead? Why should the stats that they accrue with a 30-40 point lead count any less just because the players on the team in the town over isn't good enough to build a big lead so they're in close games all the time?

I don't have a dog in this fight. I know I've never seen Oase play and I've seen Sieben or Hughes maybe once or twice, and I don't even follow basketball very closely to begin with, but I am a fan of sports and I appreciate the work that the elite level athletes put into their games, so I just think it's pure BS to downplay what someone is able to do just because their opponents aren't good enough to stop them. Quit punishing kids for becoming too good! Instead of calling out "Coaching etiquette" of the coach who leads her team to blow-out wins, maybe we should hold accountable the coaches of the teams who don't put in enough work to be able to keep it close with these teams like Grafton. I bet the girls on the Grafton team who win a lot of blow-outs probably give up a lot of time at the lake (or other fun activities) in the summers to go to camps, play travel leagues, go to open gyms, etc. and I bet that the teams that they're "Beating by 40-50 points and padding their stats against" are spending a lot more time at the lake than they are shooting baskets. But come winter, dammit, Grafton's players should only play half-games because they're too good and the other teams can't do what they are doing.

Rant over....

Just a clueless post

[BasketballMind]

Very interesting topic and takes on it... I have seen a number of times when kids in football get passed over for post-season accolades because they play on tremendous teams and they only put up 24 minutes of stats and the starters get pulled at halftime. I've seen a number of kids/coaches get chastised because they play their starters more in a blowout than what other deem necessary. Here's my honest opinion on this:

These teams/players who are very good and outmatch many or all of their opponents didn't just wake up one day with this level of ability. They have obviously put in many hours in the offseason. I've been around sports for long enough to know that not every player/team puts in this type of effort. So when a team becomes dominant because of all the work that they put in, because they love the sport, because they're willing to sacrifice other things in their life for extra drills, extra lifts, extra summer camps, extra open gyms... why are we going to punish them or make them feel bad if they play in the second half of a lop-sided game? I just don't understand the mind-set that many have that "Hey you guys are really good because you work so hard, so because you've done so much more than everyone else in your region when it comes to this particular game that you love and no one else can do it as good as you, you probably should not play a full game. Play less, Play only half of the game so that the people who DO NOT put in the same time and effort as you do all year long can have their fun because that's "Sportsmanship"... No, that's BS! If a kid/team is putting in that much more because they love basketball, football, volleyball, etc... then they deserve to play four full quarters of every game they have on their schedule. Why should the stats that they accrue when they're up 30-40 points be worth any less than the stats that they accrue in the first half while they're building that monstrous lead? Why should the stats that they accrue with a 30-40 point lead count any less just because the players on the team in the town over isn't good enough to build a big lead so they're in close games all the time?

I don't have a dog in this fight. I know I've never seen Oase play and I've seen Sieben or Hughes maybe once or twice, and I don't even follow basketball very closely to begin with, but I am a fan of sports and I appreciate the work that the elite level athletes put into their games, so I just think it's pure BS to downplay what someone is able to do just because their opponents aren't good enough to stop them. Quit punishing kids for becoming too good! Instead of calling out "Coaching etiquette" of the coach who leads her team to blow-out wins, maybe we should hold accountable the coaches of the teams who don't put in enough work to be able to keep it close with these teams like Grafton. I bet the girls on the Grafton team who win a lot of blow-outs probably give up a lot of time at the lake (or other fun activities) in the summers to go to camps, play travel leagues, go to open gyms, etc. and I bet that the teams that they're "Beating by 40-50 points and padding their stats against" are spending a lot more time at the lake than they are shooting baskets. But come winter, dammit, Grafton's players should only play half-games because they're too good and the other teams can't do what they are doing.

Rant over....

There isn't a single time that I've addressed this that I've said Grafton should pull their starters after the first half. They SHOULD play into the 4th quarter. I've played on teams that have been in that scenario myself, but here's the difference. When a dominant team is up by FORTY in the third quarter, your starters have no business keeping their press on. They're going to get worse as a team, not better. That is all about getting individual stats and that's it. Has nothing to do with summer hours and dedication.

#1 - When you play teams that ARE good, you can't rely on that to win you a game. You have to be able to score in a half court setting. Grafton hasn't had to play meaningful half-court basketball in almost a month, since they last played CC and Kindred. The only games they lost.

#2 - Considering the amount of time those girls DO put in, they would be able to continue to build their lead in a half court setting, and become a more well-rounded team. What rubs people the wrong way is them sitting in a press for an entire game and feeding the ball to someone for what seemed to be stat padding.

#3 - The infrastructure in Grafton compared to most of these schools that they humiliated is not apples to apples. Facilities, Coaches, Participation alone has Grafton at an advantage from the start. You can take that or leave it, but it's 100% true. Grafton has multiple grades in their school with about the same as FSHP does K-12. So get off your soapbox when everyone in one town can get together at a moments notice and go to the gym. I love this "Well they work hard in the summer, so they deserve to humiliate everyone they play" logic. It's not the same playing field.

#4 - This has never been a knock on any players. It's well-known how much time they put in year-round. The fact that they don't have anyone to test them more than 3-4 times a year prior to state is why this strategy is short-sighted. In games against teams you know you're going to pummel, that's when it's time to work on the things you're going to need against good teams. They'd still win those games huge and your players should still play into the 4th quarter.

#5 - Every year there are teams in this position and Grafton continues to be at the front of this discussion. There have been two separate 3-peat champions since 2006 and that was prior to a 30-point running clock. Neither one (Bottineau or Bishop Ryan) had this reputation. It's not sour grapes and that response is very predictable.

[east sider]

Very interesting topic and takes on it... I have seen a number of times when kids in football get passed over for post-season accolades because they play on tremendous teams and they only put up 24 minutes of stats and the starters get pulled at halftime. I've seen a number of kids/coaches get chastised because they play their starters more in a blowout than what other deem necessary. Here's my honest opinion on this:

These teams/players who are very good and outmatch many or all of their opponents didn't just wake up one day with this level of ability. They have obviously put in many hours in the offseason. I've been around sports for long enough to know that not every player/team puts in this type of effort. So when a team becomes dominant because of all the work that they put in, because they love the sport, because they're willing to sacrifice other things in their life for extra drills, extra lifts, extra summer camps, extra open gyms... why are we going to punish them or make them feel bad if they play in the second half of a lop-sided game? I just don't understand the mind-set that many have that "Hey you guys are really good because you work so hard, so because you've done so much more than everyone else in your region when it comes to this particular game that you love and no one else can do it as good as you, you probably should not play a full game. Play less, Play only half of the game so that the people who DO NOT put in the same time and effort as you do all year long can have their fun because that's "Sportsmanship"... No, that's BS! If a kid/team is putting in that much more because they love basketball, football, volleyball, etc... then they deserve to play four full quarters of every game they have on their schedule. Why should the stats that they accrue when they're up 30-40 points be worth any less than the stats that they accrue in the first half while they're building that monstrous lead? Why should the stats that they accrue with a 30-40 point lead count any less just because the players on the team in the town over isn't good enough to build a big lead so they're in close games all the time?

I don't have a dog in this fight. I know I've never seen Oase play and I've seen Sieben or Hughes maybe once or twice, and I don't even follow basketball very closely to begin with, but I am a fan of sports and I appreciate the work that the elite level athletes put into their games, so I just think it's pure BS to downplay what someone is able to do just because their opponents aren't good enough to stop them. Quit punishing kids for becoming too good! Instead of calling out "Coaching etiquette" of the coach who leads her team to blow-out wins, maybe we should hold accountable the coaches of the teams who don't put in enough work to be able to keep it close with these teams like Grafton. I bet the girls on the Grafton team who win a lot of blow-outs probably give up a lot of time at the lake (or other fun activities) in the summers to go to camps, play travel leagues, go to open gyms, etc. and I bet that the teams that they're "Beating by 40-50 points and padding their stats against" are spending a lot more time at the lake than they are shooting baskets. But come winter, dammit, Grafton's players should only play half-games because they're too good and the other teams can't do what they are doing.

Rant over....

Totally agree! Why even bother with different classes at all? All one class and if you lose NO COMPLAINING, you just didn't work hard enough!

[Sportsrube]

When I was coaching, I never worried about how many points I got beat by or how many points I beat someone by. It's how it is done that is the issue. If you leave starters in and are still pressing full court in the 4th quarter of a 40 point blowout I have an issue with that. If your bench wants to press my bench, or press my starters, go ahead, have at it. If it's a 30 point game at the end of the 3rd quarter and your bench can increase that lead to 40+, go ahead. How it's done matters more than the final score for a lot of us.

[BasketballMind]

When I was coaching, I never worried about how many points I got beat by or how many points I beat someone by. It's how it is done that is the issue. If you leave starters in and are still pressing full court in the 4th quarter of a 40 point blowout I have an issue with that. If your bench wants to press my bench, or press my starters, go ahead, have at it. If it's a 30 point game at the end of the 3rd quarter and your bench can increase that lead to 40+, go ahead. How it's done matters more than the final score for a lot of us.

100%. I guess common sense isn't that common anymore.