Poll Discussion

[vikingman]

as for teams running up the score or not, CC has had a couple of chances lately to easily have hit 90+ points. But they took off the press and worked the shot clock down on most possessions. Last night they were up 44-3 in the second quarter. It ended up 68-20, so only a 24-17 advantage over the last 18 minutes or so. Still a beat-down, but it could have been a lot worse. The 44-3 start might look worse than it actually was--Lisbon had many point-blank shots in the first half that just wouldn't go in. In the other game, they ended up with 71 points after being just short of 50 at the half.

[Flip]

Lots of good discussions. One quick point: I think Fargo South is the 5th biggest school in the FM metro area, not 5th or 6th in ND.

[Flip]

as for teams running up the score or not, CC has had a couple of chances lately to easily have hit 90+ points. But they took off the press and worked the shot clock down on most possessions. Last night they were up 44-3 in the second quarter. It ended up 68-20, so only a 24-17 advantage over the last 18 minutes or so. Still a beat-down, but it could have been a lot worse. The 44-3 start might look worse than it actually was--Lisbon had many point-blank shots in the first half that just wouldn't go in. In the other game, they ended up with 71 points after being just short of 50 at the half.

I witnessed CC beat down a lesser team in varsity and JV earlier this year and they were two of the nicest beat downs I've seen.

[muley14]

MPCG 56, HCV 19
Richland 68, FSHP 29
Midway/Minto 60, PRFL 27
Hatton/Northwood 66, Cavalier 62
Grafton 90, North Border 20
Thompson 64, Drayton/Valley-Edinburg 22

Some really good games

I'll start with NDHSAA should not let anything other than enrollment decide class structure. If they do we should just have a vote like FBS and pick a champion.

Quote is from the Region 2 thread. Enrollments are 9-12 current year comparison from DPI.

HCV +75 enrollment over MPCG, Lost by 37
FHSP +2 enrollment over Richland, Lost by 39
Midway/Minto, +5 enrollment over PRFL, Won by 33
Hatton/Northwood +31 enrollment over Cavalier, Won by 4
Grafton +159 enrollment over North Border, Won by 70
Thompson +48 enrollment over DVE, Won by 42

Only two of these teams are above the 175 enrollment threshold that Schwab suggests. Thompson is not one of them. I won't argue for or against the Grafton and Thompson margin of victory but I think it is fair to say that highly ranked teams playing against mid to lower teams in a regions' standings would be expected to win by significant margins. I'll assume the goal of those arguing for a 3 class system is parity, How would a 3 class system fix the disparity in these scores?

I don't have all the exact numbers but I'd be willing to wager that 8 of the 13 Class B Champs would fall under the 175 threshold suggested.

[Flip]

175 would be too high.
AA top 18-24
A next 32
B the rest
Allow opt-ups.

[ND Sports Fan]

175 would be too high.
AA top 18-24
A next 32
B the rest
Allow opt-ups.

flip, so you are advocating for basketball to use the football model. That does not address the examples muley14 gave. If the goal of athletics is parity, . . . . .everybody sing along . . ."KUMBAYA" . . . the final buzzer sounds and everybody pics up their trophy.

[maddog1971]

Wow this poll discussion got off the tracks...
But I will keep on. So Enderlin boys are running up some big scores... Should they be put up in class? Or since they have lower numbers... should they be allowed to kick the _ _ _ _ out of everyone?
Going back and looking at things I really see that the only teams constantly winning for the last 20 years are the privates....

[Flip]

175 would be too high.
AA top 18-24
A next 32
B the rest
Allow opt-ups.

flip, so you are advocating for basketball to use the football model. That does not address the examples muley14 gave. If the goal of athletics is parity, . . . . .everybody sing along . . ."KUMBAYA" . . . the final buzzer sounds and everybody pics up their trophy.

It doesn't need to be addressed. Three classes doesn't eliminate blowouts.

[The Schwab]

175 was a number I threw out, make it whatever number you want. Set your enrollment number and include all schools without defined borders in the middle or highest class and I'm fine with it. Enderlin was mentioned as a team that should move up. They have right around 100 students in their school and haven't been to a state boys tournament since 1996 and have never been to a girls state tournament. In this season they have an average margin of victory of 19.3, which is the 7th highest in the state and the 2nd highest in their region. They fit zero of the criteria and are not the problem with class B basketball. One of the more ridiculous statements that I've seen on this board in a long time.

edited to include the Margin of Victory number and include this next tidbit:

Coincidently of the 15 teams in Class B with an average MoV of 15+ you could make the statement that 6 of them would fit very nicely in a middle class.

[maddog1971]

I will stick with B as the middle level.

So B would be
Grafton, Ruby, Thompson, HCV, Central Cass, Kindred, Lisbon, Bowman County, Bottineau, Northern Cass, Langdon,EKM,Velva, Hazen, Beulah, Newtown, Stanley, Cavalier, Dunseith, St Johns, May-Port CG, Minto-Midway, South Prarie, lewis and Clark, Tioga, and all the Private schools....

[Flip]

I will stick with B as the middle level.

So B would be
Grafton, Ruby, Thompson, HCV, Central Cass, Kindred, Lisbon, Bowman County, Bottineau, Northern Cass, Langdon,EKM,Velva, Hazen, Beulah, Newtown, Stanley, Cavalier, Dunseith, St Johns, May-Port CG, Minto-Midway, South Prarie, lewis and Clark, Tioga, and all the Private schools....

What did you base this on?
Watford City, Valley City, Wahpeton, should all probably be in the middle class.

[maddog1971]

Current Class B schools....

[ND Sports Fan]

I will stick with B as the middle level.

So B would be
Grafton, Ruby, Thompson, HCV, Central Cass, Kindred, Lisbon, Bowman County, Bottineau, Northern Cass, Langdon,EKM,Velva, Hazen, Beulah, Newtown, Stanley, Cavalier, Dunseith, St Johns, May-Port CG, Minto-Midway, South Prarie, lewis and Clark, Tioga, and all the Private schools....

There has long been an argument to have a separate parochial class.

I agree with Schwab, Enderlin is not the problem with Class B basketball, but neither is Grafton or CC on the girls side. Teams have a year or several of dominance, or MoV, that does not mean we should run out and create a solution in search of a problem.

Define dominance. Is it average margin of victory? Is it state tournament appearances? State Titles? For a school to have a run of athletes that changes the narrative of their program should not call for a total realignment of the 2-class system. In a 5 year span, CC girls basketball went from 5 wins to its current 19 wins, so what. When Rylie Nudell was at MV, they were competitive every night, remove 1 athlete and now we should realign the planets? Was it 3 years ago that Lisbon girls played in the region final? so 2 nights ago they get beat by 48, in a game that one team shot an incredibly high percentage while the other shot an incredibly low percentage compared to both season averages, blow up the system.

[The Schwab]

I will stick with B as the middle level.

So B would be
Grafton, Ruby, Thompson, HCV, Central Cass, Kindred, Lisbon, Bowman County, Bottineau, Northern Cass, Langdon,EKM,Velva, Hazen, Beulah, Newtown, Stanley, Cavalier, Dunseith, St Johns, May-Port CG, Minto-Midway, South Prarie, lewis and Clark, Tioga, and all the Private schools....

There has long been an argument to have a separate parochial class.

I agree with Schwab, Enderlin is not the problem with Class B basketball, but neither is Grafton or CC on the girls side. Teams have a year or several of dominance, or MoV, that does not mean we should run out and create a solution in search of a problem.

Define dominance. Is it average margin of victory? Is it state tournament appearances? State Titles? For a school to have a run of athletes that changes the narrative of their program should not call for a total realignment of the 2-class system. In a 5 year span, CC girls basketball went from 5 wins to its current 19 wins, so what. When Rylie Nudell was at MV, they were competitive every night, remove 1 athlete and now we should realign the planets? Was it 3 years ago that Lisbon girls played in the region final? so 2 nights ago they get beat by 48, in a game that one team shot an incredibly high percentage while the other shot an incredibly low percentage compared to both season averages, blow up the system.

I guess I should justify my statements. I don't know if class B girls basketball is broken (I realize that this is in the girls forum, but I love to discuss 3 class system). I do firmly believe that class B boys basketball is broken.

[Flip]

It doesn't change a lot, but Thompson beat CC 38-37.
CC will still be the #1 seed if they get out of region 1.

Edit: probably means Thompson would get the #2 seed if they found a way to take down Grafton.

[GOPACKGO!!!]

It doesn't change a lot, but Thompson beat CC 38-37.
CC will still be the #1 seed if they get out of region 1.

Edit: probably means Thompson would get the #2 seed if they found a way to take down Grafton.

Wonder what happened there? Would like to know if CC played their varsity, that's a really low scoring game for the way CC runs the floor.

[leroybla]

Two good defenses, poor shooting generally by both teams.

[Flip]

It doesn't change a lot, but Thompson beat CC 38-37.
CC will still be the #1 seed if they get out of region 1.

Edit: probably means Thompson would get the #2 seed if they found a way to take down Grafton.

Wonder what happened there? Would like to know if CC played their varsity, that's a really low scoring game for the way CC runs the floor.

I started watching until the late 3rd quarter. CC had their best kids playing.

[muley14]

Neither team shot well but CC was under 25%. Thompson had a lot to do with that and didn't let CC run. Thompson is very solid, they give up the fewest points per game in the state.

Side note. Basketball and defense are a team game but Holzer from CC has been spectacular on D this year. She has been the primary defender on Hughes (Thompson), Richter (Linton), Sieben (Grafton #5) and Roob (Richland) and the stats I see show them a combined 10/44 from the floor. 7 of those makes were transition layups.

[airmail]

Would like to know if CC played their varsity

Jeez man - Thompson isn't THAT bad!

Wise defensive game plan from Thompson to limit good opportunities by Smith. The other four couldn't make up the difference. I agree though - poor shooting on both sides regardless of the good defensive efforts. A hot hand could've broke it open for either team.

[BasketballMind]

Would like to know if CC played their varsity

Jeez man - Thompson isn't THAT bad!

Wise defensive game plan from Thompson to limit good opportunities by Smith. The other four couldn't make up the difference. I agree though - poor shooting on both sides regardless of the good defensive efforts. A hot hand could've broke it open for either team.

I don't understand the complete shock that people are just assuming Central Cass tanked and didn't play their starters. Thompson is and has been a great program for years and has one of the best girls coaches in the state. Jason Brend can gameplan with the best of them and is always learning and getting better as a coach. I don't know if the comments are coming from Thompson haters or folks too deep into the Central Cass kool-aid. Why not congratulate the team that won instead of putting on your tinfoil hat?

[maddog1971]

I think the shock comes from the fact that Kindred beat them by 13 and Grafton Beat them by 21 and CC beat both Kindred and Grafton....
Great Job by Thompson... Glad to see it.

[GOPACKGO!!!]

I think the shock comes from the fact that Kindred beat them by 13 and Grafton Beat them by 21 and CC beat both Kindred and Grafton....
Great Job by Thompson... Glad to see it.

Agree!

No tinfoil hat here, it's the end of the season and the game didn't matter so I guess that's why I made the comment. Believe me, you won't see me defending either of the burbs or hopping on the their fan wagon.