2016-17 POLLS

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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Rivershark » Tue Jan 10, 2017 1:45 pm

Flip wrote:
Rivershark wrote:I feel that sometimes the RPI and SOS numbers raise more questions. For example, Minot Ryan is #1 in RPI. Their 3 losses were to the top 3 teams which is understandable, yet North Star has a low strength of schedule, so how do you really know they are a quality team without being tested? Does the RPI take into consideration the weekly media polls? It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out with these numbers.

If you can't look at North Star's results and tell they are a quality team you have blinders on.

When has PR actually been "tested" this year?


Never said they weren't, but they do have a low strength of schedule which drops them down. A team like Minot Ryan gets more credit for losing to North Star than NS gets credit for their wins. I'm not slamming North Star, just trying to create conversation from the numbers. To answer your question, PRFL gets tested in every game, some more than others.
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby scc » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:12 pm

Rivershark wrote:
Flip wrote:
Rivershark wrote:I feel that sometimes the RPI and SOS numbers raise more questions. For example, Minot Ryan is #1 in RPI. Their 3 losses were to the top 3 teams which is understandable, yet North Star has a low strength of schedule, so how do you really know they are a quality team without being tested? Does the RPI take into consideration the weekly media polls? It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out with these numbers.

If you can't look at North Star's results and tell they are a quality team you have blinders on.

When has PR actually been "tested" this year?


Never said they weren't, but they do have a low strength of schedule which drops them down. A team like Minot Ryan gets more credit for losing to North Star than NS gets credit for their wins. I'm not slamming North Star, just trying to create conversation from the numbers. To answer your question, PRFL gets tested in every game, some more than others.

Every game?
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby madseason » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:31 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:Here is my ranking formula's Top 20 (similar to SD's power points system)

*Thru 12/27/16*
**Numbers change daily when games are played**
***Includes Out-of-State Games...SD/MN opp. updated daily...MT and others on Wed & Sun***

1. Park River-FL (8-0) 46.63
2. Carrington (8-0) 46.63
3. Kindred (6-0) 45.33
4. Bishop Ryan (4-2) 45.33
5. Langdon (5-1) 44.67
6. Des Lacs-Burlington (5-1) 44.67
7. Powers Lake (6-1) 44.67
8. Our Redeemer's (6-0) 44.60
9. Shiloh Christian (6-0) 44.50
10. Grant County (8-0) 44.38
11. Kidder County (5-2) 44.29
12. LaMoure-LM (7-1) 44.13
13. Velva/Sawyer (5-2) 43.86
14. Watford City (4-2) 43.83
15. Enderlin (7-1) 43.75
16. New Town (6-1) 43.71
17. North Star (8-0) 43.63
18. Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (5-2) 43.43
19. Medina/Pingree-Buchanan (6-2) 43.13
20. Oak Grove (5-1) 43.00
20. Rugby (7-1) 43.00
This system seems flawed to me. North Star # 17? Most people in the state see NS and PRFL Who basically have everyone back from last year the teams to beat.
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Rivershark » Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:43 pm

scc wrote:
Rivershark wrote:
Flip wrote:
Rivershark wrote:I feel that sometimes the RPI and SOS numbers raise more questions. For example, Minot Ryan is #1 in RPI. Their 3 losses were to the top 3 teams which is understandable, yet North Star has a low strength of schedule, so how do you really know they are a quality team without being tested? Does the RPI take into consideration the weekly media polls? It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season plays out with these numbers.

If you can't look at North Star's results and tell they are a quality team you have blinders on.

When has PR actually been "tested" this year?


Never said they weren't, but they do have a low strength of schedule which drops them down. A team like Minot Ryan gets more credit for losing to North Star than NS gets credit for their wins. I'm not slamming North Star, just trying to create conversation from the numbers. To answer your question, PRFL gets tested in every game, some more than others.

Every game?



Sure. We don't have that single superstar player that stands out more than the others. The neat thing is that they all work well together. Each players has their own weaknesses that they need to work on. I'm not trying to be sarcastic, just honest. This forum has been really quiet for girls basketball, so somebody needs to spark up some conversation. Let's not take every comment so seriously. I mean lets be honest, I'm not seeing anything in the media on Class B girls BB.
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 5:07 pm

madseason wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:Here is my ranking formula's Top 20 (similar to SD's power points system)

*Thru 12/27/16*
**Numbers change daily when games are played**
***Includes Out-of-State Games...SD/MN opp. updated daily...MT and others on Wed & Sun***

1. Park River-FL (8-0) 46.63
2. Carrington (8-0) 46.63
3. Kindred (6-0) 45.33
4. Bishop Ryan (4-2) 45.33
5. Langdon (5-1) 44.67
6. Des Lacs-Burlington (5-1) 44.67
7. Powers Lake (6-1) 44.67
8. Our Redeemer's (6-0) 44.60
9. Shiloh Christian (6-0) 44.50
10. Grant County (8-0) 44.38
11. Kidder County (5-2) 44.29
12. LaMoure-LM (7-1) 44.13
13. Velva/Sawyer (5-2) 43.86
14. Watford City (4-2) 43.83
15. Enderlin (7-1) 43.75
16. New Town (6-1) 43.71
17. North Star (8-0) 43.63
18. Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (5-2) 43.43
19. Medina/Pingree-Buchanan (6-2) 43.13
20. Oak Grove (5-1) 43.00
20. Rugby (7-1) 43.00
This system seems flawed to me. North Star # 17? Most people in the state see NS and PRFL Who basically have everyone back from last year the teams to beat.


North Star has beaten more low-win teams...therefore they aren't getting as high a # in the formula
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:06 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
madseason wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:Here is my ranking formula's Top 20 (similar to SD's power points system)

*Thru 12/27/16*
**Numbers change daily when games are played**
***Includes Out-of-State Games...SD/MN opp. updated daily...MT and others on Wed & Sun***

1. Park River-FL (8-0) 46.63
2. Carrington (8-0) 46.63
3. Kindred (6-0) 45.33
4. Bishop Ryan (4-2) 45.33
5. Langdon (5-1) 44.67
6. Des Lacs-Burlington (5-1) 44.67
7. Powers Lake (6-1) 44.67
8. Our Redeemer's (6-0) 44.60
9. Shiloh Christian (6-0) 44.50
10. Grant County (8-0) 44.38
11. Kidder County (5-2) 44.29
12. LaMoure-LM (7-1) 44.13
13. Velva/Sawyer (5-2) 43.86
14. Watford City (4-2) 43.83
15. Enderlin (7-1) 43.75
16. New Town (6-1) 43.71
17. North Star (8-0) 43.63
18. Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (5-2) 43.43
19. Medina/Pingree-Buchanan (6-2) 43.13
20. Oak Grove (5-1) 43.00
20. Rugby (7-1) 43.00
This system seems flawed to me. North Star # 17? Most people in the state see NS and PRFL Who basically have everyone back from last year the teams to beat.


North Star has beaten more low-win teams...therefore they aren't getting as high a # in the formula


Run, realizing that it's just a ranking and there are many variables involved, wouldn't you agree that something is amiss in the formula? Considering you have a team at 4th with 2 losses, one of them to an unbeaten team, and the unbeaten team is at 17? Seems something should be adjusted in the formula. I don't think any team who has a loss to an undefeated team, should be ahead of the undefeated team. Seems the weighting for SOS is more than a head to head match up. Realizing that the more data you enter, the better it gets, there still seems to be something not quite right. 2 cents.
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby madseason » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:06 am

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:
madseason wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:Here is my ranking formula's Top 20 (similar to SD's power points system)

*Thru 12/27/16*
**Numbers change daily when games are played**
***Includes Out-of-State Games...SD/MN opp. updated daily...MT and others on Wed & Sun***

1. Park River-FL (8-0) 46.63
2. Carrington (8-0) 46.63
3. Kindred (6-0) 45.33
4. Bishop Ryan (4-2) 45.33
5. Langdon (5-1) 44.67
6. Des Lacs-Burlington (5-1) 44.67
7. Powers Lake (6-1) 44.67
8. Our Redeemer's (6-0) 44.60
9. Shiloh Christian (6-0) 44.50
10. Grant County (8-0) 44.38
11. Kidder County (5-2) 44.29
12. LaMoure-LM (7-1) 44.13
13. Velva/Sawyer (5-2) 43.86
14. Watford City (4-2) 43.83
15. Enderlin (7-1) 43.75
16. New Town (6-1) 43.71
17. North Star (8-0) 43.63
18. Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (5-2) 43.43
19. Medina/Pingree-Buchanan (6-2) 43.13
20. Oak Grove (5-1) 43.00
20. Rugby (7-1) 43.00
This system seems flawed to me. North Star # 17? Most people in the state see NS and PRFL Who basically have everyone back from last year the teams to beat.


North Star has beaten more low-win teams...therefore they aren't getting as high a # in the formula


Run, realizing that it's just a ranking and there are many variables involved, wouldn't you agree that something is amiss in the formula? Considering you have a team at 4th with 2 losses, one of them to an unbeaten team, and the unbeaten team is at 17? Seems something should be adjusted in the formula. I don't think any team who has a loss to an undefeated team, should be ahead of the undefeated team. Seems the weighting for SOS is more than a head to head match up. Realizing that the more data you enter, the better it gets, there still seems to be something not quite right. 2 cents.
Exactly! you should not be ranked below a team you beat IMO.
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:53 am

Look at a more updated ranking...I think the formula is working towards accuracy with more games being played...the list u keep quoting is from two weeks ago
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Rivershark » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:11 am

As of 01/14/17

1. Carrington (11-0) 45.91
2. Park River-FL (13-0) 45.62
3. Bishop Ryan (8-3) 45.36
4. Kindred (9-0) 45.22
5. North Star (12-0) 45.00
6. Shiloh Christian (8-2) 44.80
7. Des Lacs-Burlington (9-1) 44.70
8. Watford City (7-2) 44.44
9. Velva/Sawyer (10-2) 44.42
10. Kidder County (9-2) 43.91
10. Langdon/Edmore/Munich (9-2) 43.91
12. Rugby (11-1) 43.83
13. Oak Grove (10-2) 43.83
14. Powers Lake (7-1) 43.75
15. Our Redeemer's (9-2) 43.64
16. LaMoure-LM (9-2) 43.36
16. Enderlin (9-2) 43.36
18. New Town (11-3) 43.36
19. Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (8-3) 43.18
20. Medina/Pingree-Buchanan (9-4) 43.15

So if the season were to end today, could Minot Ryan potentially be ranked as a top 4 team? I'm just wondering how much weight a teams strength of schedule could have when seating teams for the state tournament? It's obvious Minot Ryan makes it a point to schedule competitive teams.
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby scc » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:35 am

Rivershark wrote:As of 01/14/17

1. Carrington (11-0) 45.91
2. Park River-FL (13-0) 45.62
3. Bishop Ryan (8-3) 45.36
4. Kindred (9-0) 45.22
5. North Star (12-0) 45.00
6. Shiloh Christian (8-2) 44.80
7. Des Lacs-Burlington (9-1) 44.70
8. Watford City (7-2) 44.44
9. Velva/Sawyer (10-2) 44.42
10. Kidder County (9-2) 43.91
10. Langdon/Edmore/Munich (9-2) 43.91
12. Rugby (11-1) 43.83
13. Oak Grove (10-2) 43.83
14. Powers Lake (7-1) 43.75
15. Our Redeemer's (9-2) 43.64
16. LaMoure-LM (9-2) 43.36
16. Enderlin (9-2) 43.36
18. New Town (11-3) 43.36
19. Edgeley-Kulm-Montpelier (8-3) 43.18
20. Medina/Pingree-Buchanan (9-4) 43.15

So if the season were to end today, could Minot Ryan potentially be ranked as a top 4 team? I'm just wondering how much weight a teams strength of schedule could have when seating teams for the state tournament? It's obvious Minot Ryan makes it a point to schedule competitive teams.

The coaches of the teams in the state tournament field will seed the tournament. So, it will all be a matter of opinion. My guess is Ryan would not receive a top 5 seed, as wins and losses will be used to gauge placement.
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Flip » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:10 am

Rivershark wrote:So if the season were to end today, could Minot Ryan potentially be ranked as a top 4 team? I'm just wondering how much weight a teams strength of schedule could have when seating teams for the state tournament? It's obvious Minot Ryan makes it a point to schedule competitive teams.

If the favorites make it to state I don't see Ryan getting a seed. They would be behind Shiloh, PR, NS for sure and probably behind Kindred and Carrington as well.

Here is something I've pondered is being the #1 seed actually better than the #2 or #3 seed? If you're #1 you're guaranteed to play a seeded team in the semifinals. If you're #2 or #3 there is a chance you face an unseeded team in the semifinals. I think it's still a better to be #1, but not by a lot. I also think they need to seed the entire thing. Let the coaches seed the top 4 or 5 and then seed 5-8 or 6-8 by QRF.
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 3:05 am

Flip wrote:
Rivershark wrote:So if the season were to end today, could Minot Ryan potentially be ranked as a top 4 team? I'm just wondering how much weight a teams strength of schedule could have when seating teams for the state tournament? It's obvious Minot Ryan makes it a point to schedule competitive teams.

If the favorites make it to state I don't see Ryan getting a seed. They would be behind Shiloh, PR, NS for sure and probably behind Kindred and Carrington as well.

Here is something I've pondered is being the #1 seed actually better than the #2 or #3 seed? If you're #1 you're guaranteed to play a seeded team in the semifinals. If you're #2 or #3 there is a chance you face an unseeded team in the semifinals. I think it's still a better to be #1, but not by a lot. I also think they need to seed the entire thing. Let the coaches seed the top 4 or 5 and then seed 5-8 or 6-8 by QRF.


QRF is a MN thing...not, truly, set up for ND
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Flip » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:15 am

it's not as though it would be rocket science to put together a decent formula.

Question: I was told by a MN coach that games vs ND schools would be included in their QRF, is that true? If that's true are games vs MN schools included in ND school's QRF?
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:35 am

Flip wrote:it's not as though it would be rocket science to put together a decent formula.

Question: I was told by a MN coach that games vs ND schools would be included in their QRF, is that true? If that's true are games vs MN schools included in ND school's QRF?


Out of state games are NOT included
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby classB4ever » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:03 pm

Flip wrote:Here is something I've pondered is being the #1 seed actually better than the #2 or #3 seed? If you're #1 you're guaranteed to play a seeded team in the semifinals. If you're #2 or #3 there is a chance you face an unseeded team in the semifinals. I think it's still a better to be #1, but not by a lot. I also think they need to seed the entire thing. Let the coaches seed the top 4 or 5 and then seed 5-8 or 6-8 by QRF.


Have they changed something? Don't they seed 1-4? Draw 5-8? 1 and 4 in same bracket and 2 and 3 in same bracket?
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:06 pm

Changed it to seed 1-5 this year I believe. Last three are random draw
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Rivershark » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:08 pm

Please explain why 1-5 get seated and not all 8?
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:15 pm

Rivershark wrote:Please explain why 1-5 get seated and not all 8?


They went to the same as MN does...my guess is when MN seeds all 8...ND will do the same (ND is a follower not a leader in these things)
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby scc » Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:21 pm

They won't seed 1-8. Feelings would get hurt.
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:03 pm

SEVENTH POLL

1. North Star (11) 12-0 146
2. Park River-FL (2) 13-0 133
3. Kindred (2) 10-0 115
4. Carrington 11-0 113
5. Shiloh Christian 8-2 58
6. Langdon/Edmore/Munich 9-2 57
7. Oak Grove 10-2 46
8. Our Redeemer's 9-2 42
9. Rugby 11-1 40
10. Bishop Ryan 8-3 30
Others Receiving Votes: Des Lacs-Burlington (9-1), New Town (11-3), LaMoure-LM (9-2), Powers Lake (7-1), Velva/Sawyer (9-2), Grant County (9-3), Watford City (7-2).
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby lennylive » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:45 pm

So Tell me...why is it that a Team such as Enderlin..or Richland that were receiving Votes are not receiving votes this week...Enderlin has 2 losses..1 to LLM by 2 and Casselton by 13....Richland has 3 in state losses..1 to #7 OG by 2 pts..one to #5 LEM by 3...and a Thumping by Enderlin by 14..... But Richland destroyed Casselton...who destroyed Enderlin...who destroyed Richland... oh and Richland Beat LLM... Thinking something is wrong with the Voters of the state.... but hey...Underdogs just have more to prove I guess... Enderlin Girls play OG on OG home court this week...I sense an upset....as OG just got beat by 10 this past wknd by Hankinson(lost to Lisbon who got Thumped by Enderlin and LLM....should be an interesting week Kindred vs Richland ...Enderlin Vs OG... A True Test for all 4 teams
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Jan 16, 2017 8:56 pm

lennylive wrote:So Tell me...why is it that a Team such as Enderlin..or Richland that were receiving Votes are not receiving votes this week...Enderlin has 2 losses..1 to LLM by 2 and Casselton by 13....Richland has 3 in state losses..1 to #7 OG by 2 pts..one to #5 LEM by 3...and a Thumping by Enderlin by 14..... But Richland destroyed Casselton...who destroyed Enderlin...who destroyed Richland... oh and Richland Beat LLM... Thinking something is wrong with the Voters of the state.... but hey...Underdogs just got more to prove I guess... Enderlin Girls play OG on OG home court this week...I sense an upset....as OG just got beat by 10 this past wknd to a team who for the 1st time just received votes...Hankinson(lost to Lisbon who got Thumped by Enderlin and LLM....should be an interesting week Kindred vs Richland ...Enderlin Vs OG... A True Test for all 4 teams


My guess...Enderlin fell out with their 13 point loss to Central Cass (4-7 now; 2-6 when game was played); Richland hasn't received votes since the 12/26 poll where they were 2-2 and then split that week to move to 3-3.

Everyone gets so 'bent out of shape' over the poll...the poll is a subjective ranking by the media...it holds ZERO bearing on making State, or anything else that occurs on the court.

One thing we are seeing in both Boys & Girls basketball is A LOT of parity (a little more notice in the Boys so far).
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Flip » Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:45 am

scc wrote:They won't seed 1-8. Feelings would get hurt.

that's why I like my idea of seeding the top 4 or 5 and then let some computer formula figure out the rest.
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:09 am

Flip wrote:
scc wrote:They won't seed 1-8. Feelings would get hurt.

that's why I like my idea of seeding the top 4 or 5 and then let some computer formula figure out the rest.


If you were to do that, why not just let the computer formula seed all 8 teams?
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Re: 2016-17 POLLS

Postby Flip » Tue Jan 17, 2017 10:28 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
Flip wrote:
scc wrote:They won't seed 1-8. Feelings would get hurt.

that's why I like my idea of seeding the top 4 or 5 and then let some computer formula figure out the rest.


If you were to do that, why not just let the computer formula seed all 8 teams?

because I think there might be an obvious top team that might slide from say #1 to a #4 based on their SOS or something. Take NS for example now. I think they're a clear #1 or #2, but is there any formula that says they're #1 or #2?
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