New 30 Point Mercy Rule

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New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Rivershark » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:23 pm

I'm curious to know how the new 30 point mercy rule is working out for teams? The PRFL/Minot Ryan game was a mess. Fans yelling to stop the clock. A team travels 3 hours one way to play and the goal is to get the game over as quickly as possible. Why not allow some time for the subs to play? Someone please explain to me the point behind this and who the heck in their right mind would vote for it.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby scc » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:30 pm

From the standpoint of playing time, I hate it. From the standpoint of keeping games from taking forever with unnecessary fouls or sloppy play, I like it. Teams will have to adjust. If you want your subs to play, keep the lead in the 20s. I saw the mercy rule in action on opening night, and it worked very well.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Rivershark » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:35 pm

scc wrote:From the standpoint of playing time, I hate it. From the standpoint of keeping games from taking forever with unnecessary fouls or sloppy play, I like it. Teams will have to adjust. If you want your subs to play, keep the lead in the 20s. I saw the mercy rule in action on opening night, and it worked very well.


And how do you suggest that team keeps a lead in the 20's?
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby scc » Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:39 pm

Rivershark wrote:
scc wrote:From the standpoint of playing time, I hate it. From the standpoint of keeping games from taking forever with unnecessary fouls or sloppy play, I like it. Teams will have to adjust. If you want your subs to play, keep the lead in the 20s. I saw the mercy rule in action on opening night, and it worked very well.


And how do you suggest that team keeps a lead in the 20's?

That's for the teams to figure out.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby The Schwab » Mon Dec 05, 2016 3:18 pm

I am 100 percent against this rule, game time is short enough the way it is. Now I understand why it was put in, there is no need to beat a team by more than 50 points
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Rivershark » Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:33 pm

The Schwab wrote:I am 100 percent against this rule, game time is short enough the way it is. Now I understand why it was put in, there is no need to beat a team by more than 50 points


Is that the reason it was implemented?
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:21 pm

Some of the smaller schools got the ball rolling on this idea...MN uses it to curb the massive blowouts. I think its a trial system for the next year or two for Class B before a definitive ruling will be given.

Most average teams won't have to deal with the Mercy Rule that much...maybe 1 or 2 games...but it will take the fans some time to get used to it.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby airmail » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:05 pm

Rivershark wrote:And how do you suggest that team keeps a lead in the 20's?


The same way you keep mis-matched games from getting to the 80-15, 90-20 types of final scores. Cycle the ball, practice your plays, use your bench, use the shot clock, etc. I believe a good coach with coachable players could make this happen, except in very extreme cases. Some teams just can't compete sometimes, you'll always have that hanging out there.

Apparently, a reasonable margin of victory wasn't achievable for too many schools, and now we're left with this rule.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Rivershark » Mon Dec 05, 2016 6:08 pm

So what is the difference between getting beat by 50 points or getting beat by 30 points knowing that the 4th period was run time? Is it not supposed to hurt as bad with the mercy rule?
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Flip » Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:21 pm

Rivershark wrote:I'm curious to know how the new 30 point mercy rule is working out for teams? The PRFL/Minot Ryan game was a mess. Fans yelling to stop the clock. A team travels 3 hours one way to play and the goal is to get the game over as quickly as possible. Why not allow some time for the subs to play? Someone please explain to me the point behind this and who the heck in their right mind would vote for it.

Coaches voted for it.

I hate the rule. ABSOLUTELY HATE IT. I would hate it less if they made it 35 points and I probably wouldn't complain if it was moved to 40 points.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby The Schwab » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:01 pm

I could be wrong, but I don't believe coaches got to vote on this. District Chairs may have voted for it at the state tournament, but I don't recall hearing anything about it. District chairs also voted 14-2 for a 3 class system and that was shot down without a discussion at the next NDHSAA meeting. The NDHSAA asks for input from coaches and AD's, but ultimately does whatever they want.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Sportsrube » Tue Dec 06, 2016 7:26 pm

Flip wrote:
Rivershark wrote:I'm curious to know how the new 30 point mercy rule is working out for teams? The PRFL/Minot Ryan game was a mess. Fans yelling to stop the clock. A team travels 3 hours one way to play and the goal is to get the game over as quickly as possible. Why not allow some time for the subs to play? Someone please explain to me the point behind this and who the heck in their right mind would vote for it.

Coaches voted for it.

I hate the rule. ABSOLUTELY HATE IT. I would hate it less if they made it 35 points and I probably wouldn't complain if it was moved to 40 points.


Coaches did not vote on this. If the NDHSAA actually allowed coaches to vote on issues (and followed the results) I think we would see all private schools being Class A. District Chairs may have voted on it, either way, the NDHSAA basically voted how they wanted regardless of any other votes.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Sniper » Tue Dec 06, 2016 8:27 pm

So instead of creating a third class (which would have reduced the likelihood of blowouts because the playing field would be more even) they implemented a mercy rule to make the blowouts seem less bad? Makes sense.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Rivershark » Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:19 am

Who are the District Chairs? How many are there? How do they get elected?
Last edited by Rivershark on Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:22 am

Rivershark wrote:Who are the District Chairs? How many are there? How do they elected?


http://www.ndhsaa.com/board/district-chairs
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Sportsrube » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:47 pm

Sniper wrote:So instead of creating a third class (which would have reduced the likelihood of blowouts because the playing field would be more even) they implemented a mercy rule to make the blowouts seem less bad? Makes sense.


Pretty much, the NDHSAA will do anything to avoid a three class system. (Or to move all Privates into Class A)
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby The Schwab » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:46 pm

I can't believe they don't have the clock stop for Free Throws with the Mercy rule...You could run off well over a minute of game time from the time the foul is called until the second free throw is attempted.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:54 pm

The Schwab wrote:I can't believe they don't have the clock stop for Free Throws with the Mercy rule...You could run off well over a minute of game time from the time the foul is called until the second free throw is attempted.


Some MN teams foul on purpose to do that
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby scc » Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:58 pm

The Schwab wrote:I can't believe they don't have the clock stop for Free Throws with the Mercy rule...You could run off well over a minute of game time from the time the foul is called until the second free throw is attempted.

I've seen three varsity games and a jv game invoke the mercy rule, so far. Trips to the free throw line often do take about a minute off the clock. It's amazing how little scoring takes place and how few offensive possessions there are once you get into running clock mode. It's interesting to hear how some like or dislike the new rule. Some coaches really like it. I wasn't sure what to think of it, but after attending a few games where this has taken place, I'm all for it. The major cons are the impacts to playing time and statistics, but this still seems like a good rule.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby The Schwab » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:10 pm

I understand why it was put in. No one wants to see a score of 95-12. As a coach I am completely against it. It cuts game time down, we get very little game time the way it is. It's going to limit your stud players minutes if you have a good team even more than they already were. I feel like this rule punishes your good teams and good players who put time in during the off season to work and get better. I don't feel like they need to have a blanket rule for the whole state because a few coaches don't know what it means to call off the dogs and run a little offense. Now, if you're mixing in your bench, not fast breaking every trip, setting up an offense and the defense can't defend the first simple basket cut, you throw the ball to the cutter and take the layup. I will not tell my kids not to hit the open man in an offense. What most people don't understand is while a score of 60-20 may look bad, it probably could have been a heck of a lot worse had the coach decided to make a statement.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby scc » Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:21 pm

The Schwab wrote:I understand why it was put in. No one wants to see a score of 95-12. As a coach I am completely against it. It cuts game time down, we get very little game time the way it is. It's going to limit your stud players minutes if you have a good team even more than they already were. I feel like this rule punishes your good teams and good players who put time in during the off season to work and get better. I don't feel like they need to have a blanket rule for the whole state because a few coaches don't know what it means to call off the dogs and run a little offense. Now, if you're mixing in your bench, not fast breaking every trip, setting up an offense and the defense can't defend the first simple basket cut, you throw the ball to the cutter and take the layup. I will not tell my kids not to hit the open man in an offense. What most people don't understand is while a score of 60-20 may look bad, it probably could have been a heck of a lot worse had the coach decided to make a statement.

I think a happy medium would have been setting the mercy rule to 40 points. There will be games where a blowout just can't be avoided, even if you call off the dogs.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Flip » Wed Dec 14, 2016 11:44 am

scc wrote:I think a happy medium would have been setting the mercy rule to 40 points. There will be games where a blowout just can't be avoided, even if you call off the dogs.

Yes.

Flip wrote:I hate the rule. ABSOLUTELY HATE IT. I would hate it less if they made it 35 points and I probably wouldn't complain if it was moved to 40 points.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby prairiefox » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:51 pm

I tried to think of one good reason for this rule and the only one that comes to mind is that the refs and fans get to go home early.
My lists of negatives
1: A blow out is still a blowout, doesn't change that
2: Punishes the bad teams by virtually taking away one of their quarters game after game.
3: It's incentive for good teams to run score up early before fourth quarter knowing the mercy rule will take affect
4: Bench players will never get an opportunity.
5: Scoring records will be way more harder to break by taking away most of the fourth quarter. Heck, shooting a free throw burns 1min off clock.
6: Players are there to play. Fans only care about blowouts.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby Ball4Him » Wed Dec 14, 2016 4:22 pm

I was at a game this happened at...probably a total of 2 min. was taken off the clock, seemed like a waste for the time actually taken off and the confusion of the crowd.
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Re: New 30 Point Mercy Rule

Postby wan2bqb » Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:11 am

8) I agree the rule has to be tweaked if they insist on legislating morality. They (district chairs) should just have a meeting and discuss the running up the score issue. And don't think that coaches don't remember who runs up the score on them or on other teams when one of those programs has an off year. Karma as they say is a b*tch
I attended a game earlier this year and three fouls wear committed after the mercy rule and those three fouls and the substitutions after both the first free throw and the second ran over 5 min off the clock. It did have the extended effect of keeping scoring down. Under 20 points scored in the fourth by both teams combined. Hate the rule not the intent. You cannot legislate morality. Coaches should do the right thing, you have a bench and a shot clock, use it! Call off the pressure, use the time to run your offense and work on the things you need to for later in the season. In other words COACH! Valuable time for young kids or even older kids that don't see the court much. You may need them to have game time experience come the end of the year. Just my thoughts.
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