66-6

Class B Girls
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Re: 66-6

Postby heimer » Fri Dec 18, 2015 8:21 pm

In North Dakota, its possible to play up a class, take the automatic bottom seed in your region, and qualify for the state tournament that you are classed in.

I can't think of a scenario that more accurately illustrates all of the great "points" that our B-loving friends claim to worship:

Work as hard as you can
Play hard all the time
Reward the players that work in the offseason
Championships mean more than records
Team goals mean more than individual goals

Strangely, no one does it. Weird.

I guess going 28-0, etching your name in the history books, and setting individual records really does mean more than state titles. That, along with protecting the lie.
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Re: 66-6

Postby scoobyx2 » Sat Dec 19, 2015 8:29 am

heimer wrote:In North Dakota, its possible to play up a class, take the automatic bottom seed in your region, and qualify for the state tournament that you are classed in.

I can't think of a scenario that more accurately illustrates all of the great "points" that our B-loving friends claim to worship:

Work as hard as you can
Play hard all the time
Reward the players that work in the offseason
Championships mean more than records
Team goals mean more than individual goals

Strangely, no one does it. Weird.

I guess going 28-0, etching your name in the history books, and setting individual records really does mean more than state titles. That, along with protecting the lie.

If you choose to play up a class, then why drop back down? I don't have a specific plan for change, but I was for the current system until I read about players being "owed" a chance at a record or play time because they "earned" it. They aren't owed anything, at least not in sports. Coaches should play players that are needed. If you are a weaker player and the game is really close, you may not be needed and might not play, but if you are a stronger player and its a blowout, you may not be needed as weaker players need to develop so your TEAM gets better for the next game. (That's actually where the grumbling starts.) Mandan is a great example. They could have blown out every team with just 1 or 2 players, but instead they blew out teams with 7 or 8. When you are doing that, then there isn't really anything to complain about.
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Re: 66-6

Postby nolan4 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:01 am

heimer wrote:Whatever, Balla. Enforce your rules. You clearly are not interested in engaging in an honest debate about problems facing high school athletics.

I saw some scores from teams in the east last night. Thompson and PR-FL both won "blowout" games last night, and neither team scored 60 points. That's playing the game with class and dignity.

If this board isn't for this specific conversation, then all the board is for is a worthless session of B-shot patting themselves on the back for how wonderful the game, and their contributions to it, are. It's all about how great it is that one kid will have a successful Division I basketball career, and how great all of the record holders are.

Basketball has major problems. It has problems with enrollment disparities, competitiveness, lack of commitment, lack of participation, coaching issues, and more. The only discussion any of these elements get, outside of me airing them out on this board, happens in a closed-door meeting away from the scrutiny of the taxpayer that pays the bill.

None of you liked that atmosphere of solving problems when the enrollment cutoff number was moved to 400, allowing Valley City to move to Class B. But apparently that is the only acceptable place to air those comments.

All I ask is that, when you finally ban me, delete all of my posts also. I wouldn't want your board to gain any readers because of what I bring to the conversation unless the conversation can include strong opinions and a realistic attitude toward the game. If your little pity party out west is disrupted by strong opinions, then please don't profit from any of them.

I hear from a couple of mods in person that this board can be pretty dead till I show up. Despite a strong disagreement with my viewpoints, it apparently inspires conversation. But you and Flip want to ban me so you can censor the conversation to fit your narrative. That shows some real guts.

Go ahead, do your worst.

Thompson 65, Larimore 17, so Thompson had class earlier in the yr, but dont now????? Heimer???
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Re: 66-6

Postby nolan4 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:24 am

heimer wrote:They scored less than 60 points.

They didn't score 66.

They didn't score 85.

I never advocate letting a team score for mercy. You can't control whether they have shooters that can hit shots anyway. But you can control how your offense plays, and you can play zone.

It really isn't that hard.

Thompson and Park River showed how to control a game. Park River called the press off and didn't score 60. Thompson didn't score 60. Watford city scored 85, and you want to make this an apples to apples comparison.

Weak.

And Nudell can break the record or not, but it's worth more that programs survive than her finding her name on a wall. She's been starting since 7th grade, and I'm assuming the person whose record she's attempting break (BTW, who is that? Schneekloth? Just wondering) didn't start in seventh grade. Anyone playing today that breaks a record should have an asterisk by it anyway. Girls basketball isn't even close to what it used to be.

Minot Ryan best ever last year? Katie Richards beats that team with Cari Burchill and three pick-up players. Best my a$$. It's amazing how much hype basketball fans in North Dakota will buy into.



Yep , classy Park River 71-18........it happens to them all.
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Re: 66-6

Postby nolan4 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:29 am

The Schwab wrote:Not going to disagree with you that the competition was probably better when she played, plus she played on an undefeated State Championship team. I would however wager that she was part of some blowouts. It would be interesting to see if she put up big numbers in those games.



You really think the competition was better back in the 80's? or maybe you mean the teams were closer in comparison?? Because , i think we all know, todays players are much superior athletes than 80's players.
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Re: 66-6

Postby Hinsa » Sat Jan 16, 2016 11:02 pm

I really think the teams of the 80s would compete extremely well with the top teams of today. The overall quality of play was better, which forced the top teams to be better and tougher to survive the regular season and tournament grind.

There are exceptions every year now that could be better players than the stars of the 80s, but overall, the play was superior in the 80s. I'd like to see Riley Nudell square off against Nadine Schmidt of Braddock. Schmidt was as physically strong as anyone who plays the game today. Shooting range? The Schwab sisters of Esmond had no limits on how far out they were. Overall play? Whitney Meier of Rolla was as good as anyone you could put on the floor now. Big girls scoring in the paint? Sherri Kleinsasser of Carrington, Janelle Nelson of Hillsboro, Emily Shilhanek of Washburn. A competitor that would never quit? Beth Ihry of Hope. Point guard play? Pat Smykowski of Lidgerwood was as smooth as silk and could put points up in BIG bunches.

I'd put up any of the 80s state champs against any of the 2010s champs and I think the 80s would win more than half. Minot Ryan is the only one of the 2010s that would be a prohibitive favorite, but then they would have been favored against most DII college teams.
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Re: 66-6

Postby heimer » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:02 pm

Minot Ryan would have been favored against DII teams?

Minot Ryan wouldn't have beaten any college at the NAIA level or higher.

The only reason I don't say any college team is because of the Trinity Bible Colleges out there.

Let's call Minot Ryan what they were: a good B team that got thumped by the A state champ on a neutral floor.

That loss to Shanley is very inconvenient for the narrative of a team that literally had Jesus Christ playing four positions and Stewart playing the other one.
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Re: 66-6

Postby leroybla » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:48 pm

heimer wrote:Minot Ryan would have been favored against DII teams?

Minot Ryan wouldn't have beaten any college at the NAIA level or higher.

The only reason I don't say any college team is because of the Trinity Bible Colleges out there.

Let's call Minot Ryan what they were: a good B team that got thumped by the A state champ on a neutral floor.

That loss to Shanley is very inconvenient for the narrative of a team that literally had Jesus Christ playing four positions and Stewart playing the other one.


How is Stewart doing this year? Redshirt?
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Re: 66-6

Postby go maji » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:53 pm

leroybla wrote:
heimer wrote:Minot Ryan would have been favored against DII teams?

Minot Ryan wouldn't have beaten any college at the NAIA level or higher.

The only reason I don't say any college team is because of the Trinity Bible Colleges out there.

Let's call Minot Ryan what they were: a good B team that got thumped by the A state champ on a neutral floor.

That loss to Shanley is very inconvenient for the narrative of a team that literally had Jesus Christ playing four positions and Stewart playing the other one.


How is Stewart doing this year? Redshirt?


You're Answer will be right here http://www.hawkeyesports.com/sports/w-b ... mcume.html

Not a very good decision to play right away. How many years before she trasfers?
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Re: 66-6

Postby go maji » Sun Jan 17, 2016 9:01 pm

Hinsa wrote:I really think the teams of the 80s would compete extremely well with the top teams of today. The overall quality of play was better, which forced the top teams to be better and tougher to survive the regular season and tournament grind.

There are exceptions every year now that could be better players than the stars of the 80s, but overall, the play was superior in the 80s. I'd like to see Riley Nudell square off against Nadine Schmidt of Braddock. Schmidt was as physically strong as anyone who plays the game today. Shooting range? The Schwab sisters of Esmond had no limits on how far out they were. Overall play? Whitney Meier of Rolla was as good as anyone you could put on the floor now. Big girls scoring in the paint? Sherri Kleinsasser of Carrington, Janelle Nelson of Hillsboro, Emily Shilhanek of Washburn. A competitor that would never quit? Beth Ihry of Hope. Point guard play? Pat Smykowski of Lidgerwood was as smooth as silk and could put points up in BIG bunches.

I'd put up any of the 80s state champs against any of the 2010s champs and I think the 80s would win more than half. Minot Ryan is the only one of the 2010s that would be a prohibitive favorite, but then they would have been favored against most DII college teams.


Maddie Wald was one of the best players in the state last year. She's playing for Minot st. this year while averaging 4.4 pts per game (who isnt doing very good). So tell me again how they would be favored against most D2 teams?
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Re: 66-6

Postby Flip » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:56 am

He wasn't serious about beating division 2 teams. Holy heck people.
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Re: 66-6

Postby heimer » Mon Jan 18, 2016 1:02 am

I think he was.

If he wasn't, his non-serious viewpoint is the serious viewpoint people jump to when we overhype a team like Minot Ryan. Every reference to GOAT last year was like nails on a chalkboard.

I wonder how much that over-hyping plays into players biting off more than they can chew at the college level.
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Re: 66-6

Postby d_fense » Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:25 am

There is not question that sometimes players bite off more than they are talent allows. However, often times it just comes down to opportunity. In Stewart's case down in Iowa. If you project her numbers out (turn her 2 minutes a game, into starters minutes, and use averages per minute), she would likely be the teams 3rd leading scorer and easily be the teams leading rebounder. But, she isn't getting starters minutes now, for whatever the reason. Maybe she isn't as good as the girls playing, or maybe the coach has a comfort level with the girls ahead and is sticking with the known commodity. I don't know and really don't care. But there are reasons other than talent or skill level that can explain why someone succeeds or fails.
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Re: 66-6

Postby wan2bqb » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:32 pm

.
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Re: 66-6

Postby heimer » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:03 pm

I guess my point is that over-hyping teams, in my opinion, leads kids to feel like they have to play at the highest level available to live up to expectations. We've had kids in North Dakota win top basketball honors and struggle to play even small-college basketball.........at the end of their careers because they felt they needed to go DI.

If a kid truly decides to get the heck out of the state and use his/her basketball prowess to do it, fantastic. There's a player at Fargo South that's going to Ole Miss to play volleyball, an interesting choice as Ole Miss is not a power team in volleyball, and I'm sure NDSU would love to have her. She has decided to use her talent to see another part of the country and world. Good for her.

But these are 17-year-old kids. When we start drilling into their head that they are on the "greatest team ever" and that they have to take their talent all the way to the highest level to be successful, it will drive them to make some decisions they shouldn't make.

I wonder what NDSU would look like with Stroup, Stewart, and Nudell together next year. Part of it is this preferred walk-on crap both universities are selling. They both feel that ND kids should just naturally want to play for them. That's pathetic. If a kid earns a scholarship, give it to them, regardless of hometown.

We should all back off and give these kids some space, instead of trying to live our failed athletic lives through our kids. I saw plenty of players come to VCSU and leave with memories and experiences they will cherish playing for championships at a small-school level. How many kids to we send away because we basically imply that if their talent goes anywhere but DI, they failed?
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Re: 66-6

Postby The Schwab » Tue Jan 19, 2016 12:13 pm

I do agree with the fact that we put way to much pressure on our athletes, a lot of people fail to remember that they are 14-18 year old kids. I think part of the reason many of our "top athletes" don't go to UND or NDSU is simple, it doesn't appear to me that either school really wants to recruit ND athletes.
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Re: 66-6

Postby heimer » Tue Jan 19, 2016 2:33 pm

They want to recruit them, they just want them for free.

Preferred walk on status is a joke.

NDSU and UND both believe that ND kids will just end up there because they are the premier universities in the state.

Kids know when they deserve a scholarship. They should play DII or NAIA and get paid rather than walk on for free.
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Re: 66-6

Postby EHS1998 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:53 pm

heimer wrote:They want to recruit them, they just want them for free.

Preferred walk on status is a joke.

NDSU and UND both believe that ND kids will just end up there because they are the premier universities in the state.

Kids know when they deserve a scholarship. They should play DII or NAIA and get paid rather than walk on for free.


Heimer - According to his draft profile, Carson Wentz was a preferred walk on at NDSU. I expect he doesn't regret his decision.
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Re: 66-6

Postby scoobyx2 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:55 pm

There is actually less money at the D2 and NAIA levels for basketball, but coaches can divide the scholarships they are allowed so more athletes can get something. If an athlete is offered an out of state DII scholarship, it may be less expensive to stay in-state and accept a state sponsored merit scholarship at an in-state DI school, and still play college ball. Often the merit scholarships are offered to good students who also plays a sport. DIII colleges do not offer any athletic scholarships, but can "find" money for student-athletes.
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Re: 66-6

Postby Hinsa » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:27 am

Hinsa wrote:I'd put up any of the 80s state champs against any of the 2010s champs and I think the 80s would win more than half. Minot Ryan is the only one of the 2010s that would be a prohibitive favorite, but then they would have been favored against most DII college teams.


The fish bit. Hook, line and sinker. A casual throwaway line in a post and you can't tell when it is in jest?

*Whew*
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Re: 66-6

Postby winner-within » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:15 pm

heimer wrote:They want to recruit them, they just want them for free.

Preferred walk on status is a joke.

NDSU and UND both believe that ND kids will just end up there because they are the premier universities in the state.

Kids know when they deserve a scholarship. They should play DII or NAIA and get paid rather than walk on for free.


totally agree with this
If you can’t excel with talent, triumph with effort.
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Re: 66-6

Postby triplebbb » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:18 pm

Check out The Dickinson Press the past couple days. They have a 2 part series about the finances of their athletic department. Not a lot of money to spread around for a lot of athletes. My son runs DII track and gets $4000 this year, $3000 last year, and $1500 his freshman year. I have no idea what the best FB and BB players get at that level. I also agree that it would be better to be successful at a lower level that just another athlete at a big school.
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Re: 66-6

Postby nolan4 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 3:18 pm

I would like to see our best high school athletes compete here in North Dakota, but that is a little selfish of me.............some athletes want to push themselves to be the best they can be so they push sometimes to a level that are not as competitive, and we as fans miss the opportunity to see them play like they did, just my opinion. Personally I would love to see the TOP ND talent play at one university, DI or DII and have an all ND or upper midwest team, and show they would compete well with other teams in there division........Can you imagine how fun it would be to watch, Frieje, Klabo, Stewart, Nudell, Jacobson play on the same team........and that is just from the last 2 yrs teams.......I know I am probably missing someone, but that is quickly off the top of my head.
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