2013-14 State Tourney

[DTaBM]

Bismarck looking frazzled now...

Take it to the Class A forum

[ninja_joe]

A good championship game--congrats to Shiloh on coming to play & not backing down to Ryan. The kids from New Town played extremely well--fun to watch & much better than anyone really expected.

[radball]

well, first of all congrats to everyone that made it to state, watched all but one game, and I have say that 2 bears played one heck of a championship game(I still think its BS how private schools can bring in players and they don't have to sit out a yr, like the rest of the public schools), but she played very good defense and O. Just unfortunate Bishop had 8 players on the floor(I don't criticize refs, but can't figure out why they missed 4 travels on bishop's 11 in a row in the 4th quarter and that NON jump call at the 1:35 moment was a joke,they called a foul on shilo instead..lol , But that's the past. ANyway, want proof that when 2 players stop playing team ball a team will lose a 18 point lead? Look at Tommies first game. Truly sad they did that to the rest of the team, but I remember saying, if they play as a team they are a top 2 team.but that didn't happen till the last game. .. Now up to horrible Minot next yr for state. Is that true?? Oh, Fargo sound system was HORRIBLE this year until the last day. And they seriously need to cut the music after breaks when someone taking the ball out and the announcer needs to stop talking during a free throw(I counted 7 times that happened!!) But overall good year for girls bball in ND, p.s sorry for typing mistakes, on my phone.

[ndlionsfan]

Kids have to sit out transferring to a private school too. They have to follow the same rules as everyone else. No different than the girl that transferred to Lakota this season.

[rains32]

Any of you at the 7th place game notice the big guy in the front row of Thompsons section wearing green with a camera? Standing and yelling profanities at the refs? I could hear him from the other side of the court, the people around him had to hold him back. Way to stay classy buddy at a high school event.

[winner-within]

I like seeing the Native girls and Boys Playing for Shiloh, there was certainly a day when you wouldnt have seen it, It also gave them a chance to beat an undefeated team that everybody had winning by 20....congrats to all the teams...good tourney!!...looking forward to it being the early one next season...

[EHS1998]

Kids have to sit out transferring to a private school too. They have to follow the same rules as everyone else. No different than the girl that transferred to Lakota this season.

If the above is true, how was it possible for Donovan Lambert to play in the state tournament for New Town in 2011 and then for Shiloh in 2012? He obviously didn't sit out a year. Private schools have no district boundaries for a family to move into, so how can this possibly be characterized as the same?

[minotguy715]

Kids have to sit out transferring to a private school too. They have to follow the same rules as everyone else. No different than the girl that transferred to Lakota this season.

If the above is true, how was it possible for Donovan Lambert to play in the state tournament for New Town in 2011 and then for Shiloh in 2012? He obviously didn't sit out a year. Private schools have no district boundaries for a family to move into, so how can this possibly be characterized as the same?

Parents or guardian had to move to Bismarck for Lambert to play........just like anyone else......if you transfer to a school just to go to a different school, you have to sit out a year, but if your family moves you don't sit out.

[minotguy715]

I think the Class B GBB coverage this year has not done the class B game any justice whatsoever. You can literally sense the basketball burn out by the lead announcers. The color commentating by Jill at times is insightful--other times, repetitive.

The lead announcers struggle with reality. And always mess up their facts. Seriously--quit comparing Beach's run in the opening first round game (which they won) with Central Cass cutting Minot Ryan's lead to 15pts. Beach actually TOOK THE LEAD. Bring back Timmerman. He is a fountain of ND basketball / sports knowledge.

Mike Elm works for a totally different TV station in Minot. Seeing him to interviews the past two weeks is odd--especially when he has to look up to the 6'2" girls from Ryan in interviews.

The Fargo Dome is not the venue for hosting the state GBB tourney. The main camera is TOO FAR AWAY! The HD is nice but the game just seems too distant. Terrible place to play it & the crowd seems very small.

Cant wait for tonight's three keys to the championship game (which we will see like 5 times). Battle of the private schools.

Minot Ryan's Keys 1) Find two top notch 6'2" athletic posts to go to your high school & feed them the ball 2) Coach: Stay out of the way. Only job is to get the team to play hard. Bus driver could win state title with this team 3) Talent dominates (Minot Ryan would likely win the ND Girls State A tournament this year & next year with the talent they have.)

Shiloh's Keys 1) Get one more New Town transfer before tip off (crazy how Shiloh has built an all star team from Fort Berthold in boys last few years---and now girls this year. 2) Pressure the heck out of Ryan (Central Cass did that last year--was a good game 3) Attack the hoop & hope refs call everything in your favor. Getting Ryan in foul trouble early is only way you can stick around.

Wow...New Town would have been able to give Minot Ryan a run this year if they would have kept that team together.

And finally, what is up with the TV camera guys under the baskets? Since when can ANYONE recall the need to sit in a plush, soft adjustable chair (all alone under the hoop) to catch the close up action shots? Those boys need to get a little more exercise in if they can't handle that camera!! Surprised the tourney director allows that chair to be there--in the one game, a player took a header into it. Lucky she was ok.

Just a bunch of random thoughts--

I can only give my thoughts on the Bishop Ryan situation..........as to the 6'2 girls, they are not recruits as you insinuate, at least one of their parents is a Ryan graduate, as is Wald girl, both parents to Leidholt and Rovig are Ryan graduates, the only one I am not sure about is the Schmidt girl, but I think her dad is. All the girls that play for Ryan have been there since the 7th or 8th grade and some since kindergarten. So as far as this Ryan team they did not recruit or get any new transfers..........I am not a Ryan graduate but do cheer them on, and as my son says, all the HATE just motivates them more.

[rekcats1]

Can anyone help me out with a question on refs.....I have heard that refs are paid more for officiating Class A boys & girls. Next in 'payment system' is Class B boys & the Class B girls officials are paid the least. If true, that could be the main reason the Class B girls (regular & post season) have such questionable calls/officiating. If true, this is unfair. The court is the same size, the game is the same length. The Class B girls deserve the 'best of the best' just like the Class A girls get?! Also is it true that refs can only officiate 1 regional tourney...WDA or a boys regional OR a girls regional? Coaches are voting for the best officials but if they can only officiate one regional & get paid more for Class A & Class B boys, the Class B girls, parents & fans are getting screwed. An official could ref a regional game after only getting 1 vote from 1 coach. Hopefully I don't know what I am talking about but if true there needs to be an 'uprising' on behalf of Class B girls BB in ND.

[Sniper]

I like seeing the Native girls and Boys Playing for Shiloh, there was certainly a day when you wouldnt have seen it, It also gave them a chance to beat an undefeated team that everybody had winning by 20....congrats to all the teams...good tourney!!...looking forward to it being the early one next season...

Having people transfer there also doesn't give any teams in there own region who have played together since grade school a chance to go to state. It would be very disappointing if you had a good team that's been together for a long time and Shiloh gets to go to state because they got 3 new starters. Private schools are ruining class B basketball IMO.

[scoobyx2]

I don't think a transfer has to sit out a whole year. It's 180 days unless the family moves out of their previous home and moves into the new district. I have to agree that the private school situation needs to be looked into. Other than Fargo Davies boys (who has also had to deal with transfer issues over the years), the private schools would have swept the basketball tournaments and transfers were factors. Ryan girls though probably had fewer transfers than most public schools.

[eyeinthesky]

Just a bunch of random thoughts--[/quote]
I can only give my thoughts on the Bishop Ryan situation..........as to the 6'2 girls, they are not recruits as you insinuate, at least one of their parents is a Ryan graduate, as is Wald girl, both parents to Leidholt and Rovig are Ryan graduates, the only one I am not sure about is the Schmidt girl, but I think her dad is. All the girls that play for Ryan have been there since the 7th or 8th grade and some since kindergarten. So as far as this Ryan team they did not recruit or get any new transfers..........I am not a Ryan graduate but do cheer them on, and as my son says, all the HATE just motivates them more.[/quote]

Both Schmidt parents are Minot High grads.

[Run4Fun2009]

I don't think a transfer has to sit out a whole year. It's 180 days unless the family moves out of their previous home and moves into the new district. I have to agree that the private school situation needs to be looked into. Other than Fargo Davies boys (who has also had to deal with transfer issues over the years), the private schools would have swept the basketball tournaments and transfers were factors. Ryan girls though probably had fewer transfers than most public schools.

Oak Grove has had 1 transfer over the past 6 years (senior on this year's team transferred from Shanley a couple of years ago; also Kretchman came as a freshman - natural break in school year...as Tanner had to sit out a year at Davies).

[eyeinthesky]

Can anyone help me out with a question on refs.....I have heard that refs are paid more for officiating Class A boys & girls. Next in 'payment system' is Class B boys & the Class B girls officials are paid the least. If true, that could be the main reason the Class B girls (regular & post season) have such questionable calls/officiating. If true, this is unfair. The court is the same size, the game is the same length. The Class B girls deserve the 'best of the best' just like the Class A girls get?! Also is it true that refs can only officiate 1 regional tourney...WDA or a boys regional OR a girls regional? Coaches are voting for the best officials but if they can only officiate one regional & get paid more for Class A & Class B boys, the Class B girls, parents & fans are getting screwed. An official could ref a regional game after only getting 1 vote from 1 coach. Hopefully I don't know what I am talking about but if true there needs to be an 'uprising' on behalf of Class B girls BB in ND.

Rekcats you are somewhat misinformed here or simply off base on things. Class A games are paid more because the game is longer. So they are NOT the same length. If Class B had 18 minutes halves the pay would be the same as Class A. Class B has made the choice to play a shorter game. Boys and girls on the Class b level are paid the exact same. This is not unfair as you state and not a reason why you see some calls you think are questionable. The difference in pay between Class A and Class B is $2 per game. Do you really think any officials care about $2?

It is true that Officials can only work one regional/state tournament on one level. If you started giving all the tournaments to all the same people what do you think that would do for the already depleting number of people getting into officiating? Answer: more people will quit and fewer would get into a avocation that they don't think they can ever get the reward of receiving a post season assignment.

Coaches votes are such a outdated method of selecting officials I am not even going to get into that very much. Thankfully, the NDHSAA gives very little weight to coaches votes for region and state tournaments.

Class B girls will always be the lowest level of basketball in the State of North Dakota. Higher levels of basketball will always get the better officials or "best of the best". Look at college ball. Levels...D1, D2, D3/NAIA & JUCO. The best officials work the highest levels. This is how it is. If you don't understand this then there is not much more I can do to help you.

Two of the three officials working the state title game last night work a fair number of college games. One is a long time veteran and the other is a up and comer. What more do you want? Guys working the Big Sky or the Summit league tournaments working the Class B girls? Not going to happen.

Nobody is getting screwed. I will agree with you that the overall quality of officiating needs to improve in ND. I would argue that the coaches and fans that you say are getting screwed are really the root of the problem with some of them having such extremely poor sportsmanship. Why would anybody want to go out and have to listen to idiots yell at you all night (and most of the time they are wrong)? It is sort of like politics...a lot of good folks don't get into it. Fans and some coaches should look in the mirror for the problems we are starting to face now. It is only going to get worse...and soon!

My longest post ever...i am done now

[minotguy715]

Can anyone help me out with a question on refs.....I have heard that refs are paid more for officiating Class A boys & girls. Next in 'payment system' is Class B boys & the Class B girls officials are paid the least. If true, that could be the main reason the Class B girls (regular & post season) have such questionable calls/officiating. If true, this is unfair. The court is the same size, the game is the same length. The Class B girls deserve the 'best of the best' just like the Class A girls get?! Also is it true that refs can only officiate 1 regional tourney...WDA or a boys regional OR a girls regional? Coaches are voting for the best officials but if they can only officiate one regional & get paid more for Class A & Class B boys, the Class B girls, parents & fans are getting screwed. An official could ref a regional game after only getting 1 vote from 1 coach. Hopefully I don't know what I am talking about but if true there needs to be an 'uprising' on behalf of Class B girls BB in ND.

Rekcats are you somewhat misinformed here or simply off base on things. Class A games are paid more because the game is longer. So they are NOT the same length. If Class B had 18 minutes halves the pay would be the same as Class A. Class b has made the choice to play a shorter game. Boys and girls on the Class b level are paid the exact same. This is not unfair as you state and not a reason why you see some calls you think are questionable. The difference in pay between Class A and Class b is $2 per game. Do you really think any officials about $2?

It is true that Officials can only work one regional/state tournament on one level. If you started giving all the tournaments to all the same people what do you think that would do for the already depleting number of people getting into officiating? Answer: more people will quit and fewer would get into a avocation that they don't think they can ever get the reward of receiving a post season assignment.

Coaches votes are such a outdated method of selecting officials I am not even going to get into that very much. Thankfully, the NDHSAA gives very little weight to coaches votes for region and state tournaments.

Class B girls will always be the lowest level of basketball in the State of North Dakota. Higher levels of basketball will always get the better officials or "best of the best". Look at college ball. Levels...D1, D2, D3/NAIA & JUCO. The best officials work the highest levels. This is how it is. If you don't understand this then there is not much more I can do to help you.

Two of the three officials working the state title game last night work a fair number of college games. One is a long time veteran and the other is a up and comer. What more do you want? Guys working the Big Sky or the Summit league tournaments working the Class B girls? Not going to happen.

Nobody is getting screwed. I will agree with you that the overall quality of officiating needs to improve in ND. I would argue that the coaches and fans that you say are getting screwed are really the root of the problem with some of them having such extremely poor sportsmanship. Why would anybody want to go out and have to listen to idiots yell at you all night (and most of the time they are wrong)? It is sort of like politics...a lot of good folks don't get into it. Fans and some coaches should look in the mirror for the problems we are starting to face now. It is only going to get worse...and soon!

My longest post ever...i am done now

Very good post eyeinthesky

[minotguy715]

I don't think a transfer has to sit out a whole year. It's 180 days unless the family moves out of their previous home and moves into the new district. I have to agree that the private school situation needs to be looked into. Other than Fargo Davies boys (who has also had to deal with transfer issues over the years), the private schools would have swept the basketball tournaments and transfers were factors. Ryan girls though probably had fewer transfers than most public schools.

180 school days, which is a whole yr , and Ryan had no transfers on their teams , the last one I remember was in 2005 when they got a Serbian kid, not sure how he got to Ryan tho, maybe foreign exchange???

As far as transfers, since everyone is against Parochial schools, how about Mandan getting many players from other cities, or Bismarck High getting more than a handful of the native American kids over the last 10 20 yrs, Linton getting the Roemmich(sp?) kids and went to state, this yr Lakota also got a new player that transferred in.......I am sure there are other examples, and I could find them, if I took the time.........I will say that of the Class B schools, that Shiloh seems to get more than any of the other ones........are they recruiting , probably not, but when kids or families move , and they go to new city , they are going to go where they think they can play........at least if I moved and had a son or daughter playing, it would be on my mind, as pretty much all the schools have basically the same quality teachers.

[minotguy715]

One observation I had for the girls B, is how the heck was Gabby Wilkinson NOT unanimous all tourney???? If Shiloh would have won, she should/would have been MVP.

[eyeinthesky]

One observation I had for the girls B, is how the heck was Gabby Wilkinson NOT unanimous all tourney???? If Shiloh would have won, she should/would have been MVP.

Sportsmanship perhaps? Not sure. She is a good offensive player.

[ndlionsfan]

Before this private schools are ruining class b talk gets too far, private schools on the girls side have 3 championships in the last 20 years (since Ryan and trinity moved down). Those were Ryan last two years and in 93. On the boys side there have been 5...1 for Ryan and two each for oak grove and trinity.

[B-oldtimer]

The class b basketball isn't good fit eastern ND for State tournament in that for both Fargo and Grand Forks its not a top draw to get local fans to the arena. In Grand Forks its about hockey and then Und sports that attracts the local fans. In Fargo its anything to do with NDSU and the Fargo attitude that anything worth seeing is from Fargo not from without unless its pros sports. You can hear it in their play by play announcers they do not have clue about class b and get their facts quite wrong about class b. If you took any number of some small town radio announcers they could do much better job announcing and they would have history right from their memory. These announcers would give you much more exciting play by play and could give better analysis of the game than were getting right now.
The facilities for tournament are as good as it gets in seating terms but its hard to create climate and I think its because were in football facilities not building built for indoor sports. With reduced court set in the building but large height and huge open areas around the court doesn't create the buzz and excitement you get when you go to class b game in the regionals. Also the fans are so far removed from the courtside except for ends where kids from schools are during the game. Now go to Regional tournament for most class b regionals no body on the ends and crowd is right down next to floor where players and Fans are close .
The Cities of Fargo and Grand Forks have done much better job running tournaments and providing resources to people coming to games. There failure has been they have not sold public on attending the games locally to help fill larger arena's. When state tournaments are held out west in Bismarck and Minot the attendance is much better and a lot of this has to do with local people interested in games and coming watching the games. Some of this to is that local media in West covers class b better and gives it more air time so people their are aware of class b. In Eastern ND local media especially the Tv rarely give much time to class b. Und, NDSU, pro sports, and hometown schools get most of the attention. Grand Forks Tv does a little better in still covering class b but Und is still going to get priority. I find it Ironic in that they want the tournament but when it comes to covering the sport they do very little to promote the sport at that level. This sure seems disconnect somewhere in management of the media. I look at media for most parts when they televise something they promote the heck out of it and build it up for the whole season to create that interest by the public but I don't see this for class b. Here's where I think they could improve on this number of schools already provide video on their school sites of games why can't they coordinate and compile this and add to their websites and once awhile threw the season put highlight reel together to show promote class b to get more people watching and interested.
Also a big change I have seen in class b is that people watch only their team and when the game is done they leave. In the past you didn't see this people were interested in seeing other teams play and who they would be playing next. I think this is because now for most part teams have seen each other or played each other in the season. Back in my day teams had never seen the teams hardly in state let alone in the regionals. Teams played for most part in their district and may have played couple teams in other districts but may have never had played against a district in their regional. I also think this change has hurt the atmosphere at the tournament with only two team crowds at the tournament at any one time. The exception is the last night of tournament where you see more people.

[Nodak Guy]

Kids have to sit out transferring to a private school too. They have to follow the same rules as everyone else. No different than the girl that transferred to Lakota this season.

Word on the street is that the parents of the Lakota transfer are reconciling and the girl might be headed back to the Midkota district. Anyone have insight on this?

[Shawn]

Here is the link. Read the regulations. This way everyone can be an expert.

http://www.ndhsaa.com/about/constitution

[scoobyx2]

I don't think a transfer has to sit out a whole year. It's 180 days unless the family moves out of their previous home and moves into the new district. I have to agree that the private school situation needs to be looked into. Other than Fargo Davies boys (who has also had to deal with transfer issues over the years), the private schools would have swept the basketball tournaments and transfers were factors. Ryan girls though probably had fewer transfers than most public schools.

Oak Grove has had 1 transfer over the past 6 years (senior on this year's team transferred from Shanley a couple of years ago; also Kretchman came as a freshman - natural break in school year...as Tanner had to sit out a year at Davies).

I have always thought that private schools had to face the same transfer regulations but I would appreciate any insight on this question...Just as an example, if a family moves into West Fargo, and their junior son plays for them, can their sophomore son play for Central Cass or Kindred without them moving to that school district? If not, can they play at Oak Grove without any issues with residency?

[Sportsrube]

The class b basketball isn't good fit eastern ND for State tournament in that for both Fargo and Grand Forks its not a top draw to get local fans to the arena. In Grand Forks its about hockey and then Und sports that attracts the local fans. In Fargo its anything to do with NDSU and the Fargo attitude that anything worth seeing is from Fargo not from without unless its pros sports. You can hear it in their play by play announcers they do not have clue about class b and get their facts quite wrong about class b. If you took any number of some small town radio announcers they could do much better job announcing and they would have history right from their memory. These announcers would give you much more exciting play by play and could give better analysis of the game than were getting right now.
The facilities for tournament are as good as it gets in seating terms but its hard to create climate and I think its because were in football facilities not building built for indoor sports. With reduced court set in the building but large height and huge open areas around the court doesn't create the buzz and excitement you get when you go to class b game in the regionals. Also the fans are so far removed from the courtside except for ends where kids from schools are during the game. Now go to Regional tournament for most class b regionals no body on the ends and crowd is right down next to floor where players and Fans are close .
The Cities of Fargo and Grand Forks have done much better job running tournaments and providing resources to people coming to games. There failure has been they have not sold public on attending the games locally to help fill larger arena's. When state tournaments are held out west in Bismarck and Minot the attendance is much better and a lot of this has to do with local people interested in games and coming watching the games. Some of this to is that local media in West covers class b better and gives it more air time so people their are aware of class b. In Eastern ND local media especially the Tv rarely give much time to class b. Und, NDSU, pro sports, and hometown schools get most of the attention. Grand Forks Tv does a little better in still covering class b but Und is still going to get priority. I find it Ironic in that they want the tournament but when it comes to covering the sport they do very little to promote the sport at that level. This sure seems disconnect somewhere in management of the media. I look at media for most parts when they televise something they promote the heck out of it and build it up for the whole season to create that interest by the public but I don't see this for class b. Here's where I think they could improve on this number of schools already provide video on their school sites of games why can't they coordinate and compile this and add to their websites and once awhile threw the season put highlight reel together to show promote class b to get more people watching and interested.
Also a big change I have seen in class b is that people watch only their team and when the game is done they leave. In the past you didn't see this people were interested in seeing other teams play and who they would be playing next. I think this is because now for most part teams have seen each other or played each other in the season. Back in my day teams had never seen the teams hardly in state let alone in the regionals. Teams played for most part in their district and may have played couple teams in other districts but may have never had played against a district in their regional. I also think this change has hurt the atmosphere at the tournament with only two team crowds at the tournament at any one time. The exception is the last night of tournament where you see more people.

Very good post. I watched a Fargo TV station last night and not one highlight from the State B, I get that NDSU was in the "Big Dance", but you couldn't find one 30 second highlight??? They did put the score of the Championship game up as kind of an "oh, by the way" segment. Also, nothing on the Class B Senior Athlete of the Year or Miss Basketball. The State Class B BB tournaments do not belong in GF or Fargo, they are the two worst BB venues in the state and the vast majority of the people in that area don't give a rats tail about Class B BB. Again, I place the blame on the NDHSAA, hopefully with a change at the top of the NDHSAA we might see some other changes follow but I doubt it. I agree about the fans not staying for anything except their team's games. People used to by "season tickets" and attend almost every game of the tournament, it was not uncommon for fans of one team to become fans of another team when their team wasn't playing, I don't know if that is a sportsmanship thing or what. Hopefully they start putting the Class B BB tournaments in Minot and Bismarck where they can draw Class B fans from the east and west and attendance goes up and the players can actually play in a BB venue and not a FB venue.