2013-14 State Tourney

Class B Girls
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Who Wins State

Bishop Ryan
21
64%
Thompson
4
12%
Shiloh Christian
2
6%
Central Cass
2
6%
Beach
0
No votes
Kidder County
1
3%
Lakota/Edmore
3
9%
Watford City
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 33

Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Broadway Joe » Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:24 pm

It was great to watch Bismarck and Minot play in the class B girls championship game!
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby digger » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:06 pm

Broadway Joe wrote:It was great to watch Bismarck and Minot play in the class B girls championship game!

I agree. Hadn't seen either team in person, entertaining game.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby rekcats1 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:56 pm

eyeinthesky - thanks for the info. As I stated, "hopefully I don't no what I'm talking about" and from your response it's obvious I didn't.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby leroybla » Sun Mar 23, 2014 7:15 pm

That people left after their team had finished playing, and that the stands weren't occupied for the first round games speaks volumes about the interest level of class B fans. The population of Fargo is made up significantly of people from "someplace else". I submit that a huge proportion came from small town ND. They still follow their hometowns, if the still have a school there, and many don't, our the HS career of a relative. I think the Bison appearance in the NCAA tourney had a huge effect on the crowd, and would have, had the tournament been played elsewhere. I think that the FargoDome could ensure their place in the class B rotation if they would just waive the $5 parking fee.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby minotguy715 » Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:20 pm

IMO State B should be in Bismarck (best venue) or Minot (best class B following) every year, the crowds, or lack thereof in Grand Forks and Fargo are sad to say the least. Region 6 boys tourney had more fans than the State B in boys or girls.(not counting consolation).
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Makotifarmguy » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:24 am

My thoughts....

State B needs to be played in either Bismarck or Minot. The principals I know like Bismarck because of they can park the busses between the civic center and the mall in the morning and that eliminates having to drive back and forth for dinner and games. The kids just shift to the mall and then back to the games. I prefer Minot myself. I have been in that gym since it was new so I am most familiar with it so I guess that is why I lean that direction...problem is that town is becoming chaotic and the infrastructure/roads/traffic is not catching up since the flood and the oil boom.

I think the problem with the parochial schools in the tournament isn't the players. It is the town. New Town is a class B school so watching their players where ever they may be is still fun to watch. It is just really hard to watch "Minot" and "Bismarck" in the state B...unfortunately that is what us small town B schools see.

Congrats to Bishop Ryan for the victory.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby winner-within » Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:30 am

Sniper wrote:
winner-within wrote:I like seeing the Native girls and Boys Playing for Shiloh, there was certainly a day when you wouldnt have seen it, It also gave them a chance to beat an undefeated team that everybody had winning by 20....congrats to all the teams...good tourney!!...looking forward to it being the early one next season... :)



Having people transfer there also doesn't give any teams in there own region who have played together since grade school a chance to go to state. It would be very disappointing if you had a good team that's been together for a long time and Shiloh gets to go to state because they got 3 new starters. Private schools are ruining class B basketball IMO.


I totally understand that...who woulda went if not for them in your opinion?
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby ND-is-#1 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 12:14 pm

minotguy715 wrote:IMO State B should be in Bismarck (best venue) or Minot (best class B following) every year, the crowds, or lack thereof in Grand Forks and Fargo are sad to say the least. Region 6 boys tourney had more fans than the State B in boys or girls.(not counting consolation).

You're saying the region 6 tourney had more fans than the class b boys championship? No way...
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:17 pm

ND-is-#1 wrote:
minotguy715 wrote:IMO State B should be in Bismarck (best venue) or Minot (best class B following) every year, the crowds, or lack thereof in Grand Forks and Fargo are sad to say the least. Region 6 boys tourney had more fans than the State B in boys or girls.(not counting consolation).


You're saying the region 6 tourney had more fans than the class b boys championship? No way...


It may have seemed like more because it was a tighter fit in a smaller arena. I highly doubt there were more than 7,000 people their for Region 6 because that was the amount at the Class B BBB Saturday evening session (3rd/Title)
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby radball » Mon Mar 24, 2014 3:32 pm

Isn't minot the next state b place ? Vball was there and from what I heard, NOT a very well planned out venue or place to host it. Bismarck wouldn't be to bad, they host a good state track meet, I guess. Any thoughts to next years state teams based on what we saw or heard this year?
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Shawn » Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:11 pm

go to www.ndhsaa.com

There you will find most of the answers to all these questions on this site.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby minotguy715 » Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:01 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
ND-is-#1 wrote:
minotguy715 wrote:IMO State B should be in Bismarck (best venue) or Minot (best class B following) every year, the crowds, or lack thereof in Grand Forks and Fargo are sad to say the least. Region 6 boys tourney had more fans than the State B in boys or girls.(not counting consolation).


You're saying the region 6 tourney had more fans than the class b boys championship? No way...


It may have seemed like more because it was a tighter fit in a smaller arena. I highly doubt there were more than 7,000 people their for Region 6 because that was the amount at the Class B BBB Saturday evening session (3rd/Title)

If there were 7000, then not even close, but it certainly didn't look that way, and yes the lower bowl at the Dome was pretty full, but not completely, but nice loud crowd, and fun atmosphere, unlike Fargo(which I have been too) or Grand Forks, which I haven't been too.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Sniper » Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:48 pm

winner-within wrote:
Sniper wrote:
winner-within wrote:I like seeing the Native girls and Boys Playing for Shiloh, there was certainly a day when you wouldnt have seen it, It also gave them a chance to beat an undefeated team that everybody had winning by 20....congrats to all the teams...good tourney!!...looking forward to it being the early one next season... :)



Having people transfer there also doesn't give any teams in there own region who have played together since grade school a chance to go to state. It would be very disappointing if you had a good team that's been together for a long time and Shiloh gets to go to state because they got 3 new starters. Private schools are ruining class B basketball IMO.


I totally understand that...who woulda went if not for them in your opinion?


Grant County. This is why I think private schools should either have to play A or have their own class. They constantly get new players and have so many more advantages that its almost unfair to these small town kids. When I think of class B I think of small towns like a Beach, Washburn, Newburg, ect.. not teams from Minot, Bismarck, and Fargo.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Indy5 » Thu Mar 27, 2014 9:58 pm

Sniper wrote:
winner-within wrote:
Sniper wrote:
winner-within wrote:I like seeing the Native girls and Boys Playing for Shiloh, there was certainly a day when you wouldnt have seen it, It also gave them a chance to beat an undefeated team that everybody had winning by 20....congrats to all the teams...good tourney!!...looking forward to it being the early one next season... :)



Having people transfer there also doesn't give any teams in there own region who have played together since grade school a chance to go to state. It would be very disappointing if you had a good team that's been together for a long time and Shiloh gets to go to state because they got 3 new starters. Private schools are ruining class B basketball IMO.


I totally understand that...who woulda went if not for them in your opinion?


Grant County. This is why I think private schools should either have to play A or have their own class. They constantly get new players

Can someone please inform me as to how everyone in the state started thinking that Private schools operate like colleges? They don't. Don't say Private schools get new kids every year. No they don't. Shiloh has had a recent slew of transfer. They are the only ones. Bishop Ryan hasn't had a significant transfer since Hannah Stewart came as an 8th grader from Washington (Mom graduated from Ryan). Before that was 2005 when a kid moved from a country in the middle of a civil war. Run already said Oak Grove has had one in 6 years. Can't remember any for Trinity or Our Redeemers. I'm just not seeing these transfers everyone talks about, other than Shiloh's recent run. One school doesn't make a whole group.

I've also seen the argument many times how privates control their enrollment. No they don't. They're all dying out and around/under 150 kids. I promise you they'd gladly, gladly play class A basketball if they could get 325 kids in the school. It's been brought up as to how no one knows their enrollments, and I blame this on administration. See, they are embarrassed by low numbers and want the school to seem like its thriving so they will never use a straight 9-12 number for enrollment, usually 7-12 or 6-12, then people can mistake it for 9-12.

Also, I'm not naive. I know these schools have 1 advantage. That is the fact that their town has more options and more kids to play against. I can't deny this, but it also takes work for those kids to use the advantage. Small town kids who are dedicated find ways to improve themselves as well.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Sniper » Fri Mar 28, 2014 12:16 am

Indy5 wrote:
Sniper wrote:
winner-within wrote:
Sniper wrote:
winner-within wrote:I like seeing the Native girls and Boys Playing for Shiloh, there was certainly a day when you wouldnt have seen it, It also gave them a chance to beat an undefeated team that everybody had winning by 20....congrats to all the teams...good tourney!!...looking forward to it being the early one next season... :)



Having people transfer there also doesn't give any teams in there own region who have played together since grade school a chance to go to state. It would be very disappointing if you had a good team that's been together for a long time and Shiloh gets to go to state because they got 3 new starters. Private schools are ruining class B basketball IMO.


I totally understand that...who woulda went if not for them in your opinion?


Grant County. This is why I think private schools should either have to play A or have their own class. They constantly get new players

Can someone please inform me as to how everyone in the state started thinking that Private schools operate like colleges? They don't. Don't say Private schools get new kids every year. No they don't. Shiloh has had a recent slew of transfer. They are the only ones. Bishop Ryan hasn't had a significant transfer since Hannah Stewart came as an 8th grader from Washington (Mom graduated from Ryan). Before that was 2005 when a kid moved from a country in the middle of a civil war. Run already said Oak Grove has had one in 6 years. Can't remember any for Trinity or Our Redeemers. I'm just not seeing these transfers everyone talks about, other than Shiloh's recent run. One school doesn't make a whole group.

I've also seen the argument many times how privates control their enrollment. No they don't. They're all dying out and around/under 150 kids. I promise you they'd gladly, gladly play class A basketball if they could get 325 kids in the school. It's been brought up as to how no one knows their enrollments, and I blame this on administration. See, they are embarrassed by low numbers and want the school to seem like its thriving so they will never use a straight 9-12 number for enrollment, usually 7-12 or 6-12, then people can mistake it for 9-12.

Also, I'm not naive. I know these schools have 1 advantage. That is the fact that their town has more options and more kids to play against. I can't deny this, but it also takes work for those kids to use the advantage. Small town kids who are dedicated find ways to improve themselves as well.


Nobody said they are recruiting like a college, they just get players that transfer there. When I said they are getting transfers every year I was talking about Shiloh. And your probably right that not all of these schools should get punished and blamed for what is going on with Shiloh, but what are we just suppose to let all of this transferring continue? At the end of the day private schools still have more advantages no matter how you look at it. If they played class A then they would get a taste of what it's like to be the disadvantaged team.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby NCBBALL » Fri Mar 28, 2014 8:35 am

I could make this a 4 page essay attempting to answer or argue all the statements regarding private schools.

Can someone elaborate on all the advantages that they say private schools have? I will completely agree that the student/athletes have the advantage of likely living in close proximity of a much larger town than the majority of class B kids. This can lead to more opportunities to play sports year round and compete on a daily basis with a larger mix of athletes which yes, would be an advantage. Can you then explain the difference between a private school and Surrey, Sawyer, Velva, Glenburn, Burlington (DLB), and the soon to be contructed Nedrose and South Prairie schools surrounding Minot? 5 of those are within 10 miles of Minot. Or how about Casselton (CC) to Fargo, or Thompson to Grand Forks? Guess all those should be Class A as well. Oh and several of those also have larger enrollments than several of the 'private schools'.

Pay attention to Northstar, Beulah, Hazen, or Four Winds. These schools have awesome BB programs that start from the ground up and there is some truth to the statement that success breeds success. When Four Winds kids attend a youth basketball tournament they don't show up with just a 5th grade team. They show up with a 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th grade team. I guess these schools should probably make the move to Class A also since they have dominate programs in their areas.

The reasons most kids attend a private school is because their parents want them to be in an learning environment that is either faith based or the fact that it is typically a smaller setting like most other class B schools are. It is NOT because of athletics. If a student lived in Minot, Fargo, or Bismarck and wanted to attend a smaller school what options do they have other than attending a private school? Yes they could move to smaller town but maybe the economics of paying to attend a private school outweigh moving, commuting, or lowering their income due to moving.

I don't want to start any debates and am not pointing at any single comments on here but have read so many that are truely misinformed about the private schools.

Congratulations to all the athletes at both public and private schools that have had success this year. It was a great year of basketball that ended in some of the best state tournament games in every division in a long time.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Indy5 » Fri Mar 28, 2014 3:55 pm

Sniper wrote:
Nobody said they are recruiting like a college, they just get players that transfer there. When I said they are getting transfers every year I was talking about Shiloh. And your probably right that not all of these schools should get punished and blamed for what is going on with Shiloh, but what are we just suppose to let all of this transferring continue? At the end of the day private schools still have more advantages no matter how you look at it. If they played class A then they would get a taste of what it's like to be the disadvantaged team.

What should we do about the transfers? Make it illegal for anyone to ever transfer? You don't have to like it but if they do it legally, there's nothing wrong with it. That's their family's decision to move. Just because Shiloh is private doesn't mean anything. All these kids could just as easily move a public school.

Also, you're telling me that because of one small advantage (that can be overcome by small town kids that are really dedicated) they should be forced to play teams that at best case scenario are 3 times their size (most being 8x or more)?
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Flip » Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:30 am

NCBBALL wrote:
Can someone elaborate on all the advantages that they say private schools have?

Parents and money IMO. You eluded to it in your post, but if you're parents are sending you to a private school for an education they're probably pushing you to be successful in other things too like sports. In my school district I know there are parents that don't really care if their kids participate in extra curricular activities because then they'll have to take them too and from practice, pay a sports fee, pay for summer camps, buy shoes, etc.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Sniper » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:18 am

Indy5 wrote:
Sniper wrote:
Nobody said they are recruiting like a college, they just get players that transfer there. When I said they are getting transfers every year I was talking about Shiloh. And your probably right that not all of these schools should get punished and blamed for what is going on with Shiloh, but what are we just suppose to let all of this transferring continue? At the end of the day private schools still have more advantages no matter how you look at it. If they played class A then they would get a taste of what it's like to be the disadvantaged team.

What should we do about the transfers? Make it illegal for anyone to ever transfer? You don't have to like it but if they do it legally, there's nothing wrong with it. That's their family's decision to move. Just because Shiloh is private doesn't mean anything. All these kids could just as easily move a public school.

Also, you're telling me that because of one small advantage (that can be overcome by small town kids that are really dedicated) they should be forced to play teams that at best case scenario are 3 times their size (most being 8x or more)?


I do not believe all transfer cases are totally legal, even though most are legal. I know of some that cheated the rules but I'm not going to say names or schools(not a private school btw in this case btw.)

People are bringing up very valid points but I just think if you grow up and live in a class A town you should compete at that level and that's my opionin

Also maybe a rule against transferring more than once would have benefits? Could be along the lines of if you transfer more than once while in high school even if your parents move, you have to sit out one full year of varsity athletics. Might not be the brightest idea but it would help with students flip flopping and I'm not just talking about private schools. Iv seen it happen in both types of schools.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby leroybla » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:11 am

I have no information of privates recruiting, but I think one of the biggest advantages that privates enjoy is that all privates in ND are located in our largest cities. As such, they receive students from a much larger, and likely more affluent student base. Privates get no students by default, as a result of living in a defined geographical area, publics do. For this reason privates MUST attract (some would say recruit) students. But if you put Shiloh in Harvey, I expect the advantage that they have enjoyed would go away quickly. Privates in big ND cities can attract from a much larger pool, and many times from outside their traditional area. An athlete from south Fargo can choose to attend Oak Grove, for athletic reasons, while living across the street from Davies. We have examples. No such possibility in Hillsboro. Classes established for athletics in ND are established by student populations. Privates in large ND cities "charge" their customers (students) and we may expect that many or most of their students possess a greater level of talent, and certainly opportunity, than students a B schools in small towns. B schools in small ND towns must accept "all comers". There are no alternatives.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby cometdad » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:45 am

Let's list the advantages - I personally am asking our school board to petition the NDHSAA to push the large city parochial teams out of the B and a list of advantages will help.

1. Private schools typically have more affluent parents that do send their kids through the AAU programs.
2. Large city college programs are allowing kids whose parents are donors to practice with their teams (the three New Town girls are practicing up at Mary and even had a chunk of the U of Mary team at the region championship cheering them on. I know the Hansted boys also practiced with DSU - that's class A but shows that this isn't an isolated instance of one college).
3. Immediate access to the acceleration programs offered by the major medical facilities in cities.
4. Transfers - I don't believe there is recruiting and think we class B towns shoot our own arguments in the foot by this always being the first topic raised. There are definitely well documented transfer problems at Shiloh though and it's a given that they weren't transferred for "faith based" schooling.
5. Money spent on sports programs by the parochial schools (and not just on facilities). If you look at the Shiloh/Ryan/Oak Grove schedules you'll notice that they'll travel great distances to play stiffer competition. The schools in our district are even consolidating boys/girls games into one night to try and keep travel costs down so that they can live within the tax bases budget.
6. Money spent on coaching - Shiloh has 4 coaches and the small towns in our district budget for 2. We had three this year but only because our elementary coach did it for free while trying to gain some high school experience.

There is some real animosity growing, at least in our region, about this problem and I was ecstatic that Sherm Sylling was on hand to witness the ABS (Anyone But Shiloh) sentiment that has taken over. Since he's retiring I hope he is passing it on to the other board members. Grant County had a great sign that went something like "home grown talent - small town pride" and all the other communities in the region were cheering on the Coyotes. Any other advantages people can give would definitely be appreciated and I'll post my letter to the Underwood school board in case anyone else wants to use it to encourage their board to speak up.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby noles4ever » Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:17 am

I am pretty sure that if those high school kids are participating in an organized college practice during their school year not only is there an NDHSAA violation, there is positively a major NCAA violation. If you have this documented and verified it needs to go to the NDHSAA, if not and it is hearsay, I wouldn't post it on a public forum.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Pit Bull » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:54 am

cometdad wrote:Let's list the advantages - I personally am asking our school board to petition the NDHSAA to push the large city parochial teams out of the B and a list of advantages will help.

1. Private schools typically have more affluent parents that do send their kids through the AAU programs.
2. Large city college programs are allowing kids whose parents are donors to practice with their teams (the three New Town girls are practicing up at Mary and even had a chunk of the U of Mary team at the region championship cheering them on. I know the Hansted boys also practiced with DSU - that's class A but shows that this isn't an isolated instance of one college).
3. Immediate access to the acceleration programs offered by the major medical facilities in cities.
4. Transfers - I don't believe there is recruiting and think we class B towns shoot our own arguments in the foot by this always being the first topic raised. There are definitely well documented transfer problems at Shiloh though and it's a given that they weren't transferred for "faith based" schooling.
5. Money spent on sports programs by the parochial schools (and not just on facilities). If you look at the Shiloh/Ryan/Oak Grove schedules you'll notice that they'll travel great distances to play stiffer competition. The schools in our district are even consolidating boys/girls games into one night to try and keep travel costs down so that they can live within the tax bases budget.
6. Money spent on coaching - Shiloh has 4 coaches and the small towns in our district budget for 2. We had three this year but only because our elementary coach did it for free while trying to gain some high school experience.

There is some real animosity growing, at least in our region, about this problem and I was ecstatic that Sherm Sylling was on hand to witness the ABS (Anyone But Shiloh) sentiment that has taken over. Since he's retiring I hope he is passing it on to the other board members. Grant County had a great sign that went something like "home grown talent - small town pride" and all the other communities in the region were cheering on the Coyotes. Any other advantages people can give would definitely be appreciated and I'll post my letter to the Underwood school board in case anyone else wants to use it to encourage their board to speak up.



I would suggest you take a look at your list of six arguments. The private school that I am familiar with doesn't have any kids in AAU programs. As a matter of fact, there are a lot of Class be kids in AAU basketball from class B, but most if not all are from the small town teams. Where did you get the information of Shiloh girls practicing with UMary? There were some UMary girls at Regional, but because they were friends of some of the Shiloh girls and enjoy watching girls BBall. I know a ton of small town athletes that go to acceleration programs. I would say there are more small town kids using this program than Private school kids, at least in Bismarck area. You get one move in your high school career without sitting out and the Shiloh girls this year moved from New Town. Private schools do host jamborees and such bringing in top teams, but a lot of them aren't private schools. Lastly, how much do you think those 4 coaches were paid to coach? I would guess that it would be very little compared to a Public School.

You will have to come up with more points than the ones you have listed. None of these issues would hold water with NDHSAA.
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby Sportsrube » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:04 pm

As of a few years ago I know that private schools paid their teachers much less than public schools and their benefits were much less also. If that is still the case, I doubt they would be paying their coaches more than public schools do. Unless the fundraisers they do for their athletic programs are also used to help pay their coaches. (Which is a possibility) At one time, I am pretty sure all of the assistant coaches at Shiloh were volunteers and the only one who was paid was the head coach, but that was before they built the new school and played all their home games at St. Josephs over in Mandan. (Which was a horrible gym to play in.)
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Re: 2013-14 State Tourney

Postby minotguy715 » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:24 pm

Sportsrube wrote:As of a few years ago I know that private schools paid their teachers much less than public schools and their benefits were much less also. If that is still the case, I doubt they would be paying their coaches more than public schools do. Unless the fundraisers they do for their athletic programs are also used to help pay their coaches. (Which is a possibility) At one time, I am pretty sure all of the assistant coaches at Shiloh were volunteers and the only one who was paid was the head coach, but that was before they built the new school and played all their home games at St. Josephs over in Mandan. (Which was a horrible gym to play in.)


Not sure if this is true, but I had heard, that Coach Dwyer took the coaching jobs yrs ago , as unpaid, not sure if that is still true today, but if so, kudos to him, as he seems to be a pretty darn good coach.
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