Top Myths From Class "B" Basketball

[classB4ever]

Sorry to get off track here just a bit, but thought this was interesting. I am going to introduce my own little list.

7 DEBATING TACTICS POLITICIANS USE:

1. Enter the strawman: Tremendously exagerate your opponents position and then claim to fight against a position they don't hold. Enter the "Top 10 myths"
2. Blitzkrieg: Blast opponent with so many accusations/data that they can't possibly respond. Enter the entire page of the final 64 tournament and once again "Top 10 myths".
3. Bait and Switch: When a claim is made and your opponent refutes it, don't try to respond, simply change the subject. Too numerous to mention.
4. Attack the messenger: Instead of addressing the argument at hand, attack the person making it. Reason for name calling.
5. History will be kind to me for I intend to write it: Try to rewrite history to claim a debate in a previous time was different then it actually was. How successful was the 3 class system from before?
6. I'm not hearing you: Totally ignore what your opponent is saying and move on to something else. Too numerous to mention.
7. Motives matter, results don't: If results don't work for your argument, use the motives. Vice versa. Once again, used many times.

Not really trying to call anybody out here, but is a very interesting read.

[digger]

Sorry to get off track here just a bit, but thought this was interesting. I am going to introduce my own little list.

7 DEBATING TACTICS POLITICIANS USE:

1. Enter the strawman: Tremendously exagerate your opponents position and then claim to fight against a position they don't hold. Enter the "Top 10 myths"
2. Blitzkrieg: Blast opponent with so many accusations/data that they can't possibly respond. Enter the entire page of the final 64 tournament and once again "Top 10 myths".
3. Bait and Switch: When a claim is made and your opponent refutes it, don't try to respond, simply change the subject. Too numerous to mention.
4. Attack the messenger: Instead of addressing the argument at hand, attack the person making it. Reason for name calling.
5. History will be kind to me for I intend to write it: Try to rewrite history to claim a debate in a previous time was different then it actually was. How successful was the 3 class system from before?
6. I'm not hearing you: Totally ignore what your opponent is saying and move on to something else. Too numerous to mention.
7. Motives matter, results don't: If results don't work for your argument, use the motives. Vice versa. Once again, used many times.

Not really trying to call anybody out here, but is a very interesting read.

Seems to be pretty much on point, good thoughts classB.

[Bisonguy06]

Steve made the following post in another thread:

"I saw the score (of the Central Prairie win at Valley City), and read an article about the game last night in VC. Sounds like the board's decision was spot-on. Central Prairie, one of those poor little teams that VC was going to squash year in and out, just handed it to VC, at one point the game was a 23 point blowout. I think the NDHSAA made the absolute perfect decision. VC has had 0 impact on district five so far, in anything, and last night proves that they are right where they belong in competition. Having them in District 5 is no different than Lisbon in 1, Central Cass in 2, Grafton in 4, Linton in 6, Carrington in 7, Trinity in 14 or whatever, Minot Ryan, Rugby, Bottineau, Watford City, and so on and so forth. They are all beatable, including VC."

I'm going to concede that Steve made this point in a different thread.
I also concede that what Steve really wants is a three class plan where Valley City would be in the middle class.

However, when I read everything in bold, to me it sounds like Steve just made a heck of an argument for keeping the two class plan that we currently have.

[steve34]

Sorry to get off track here just a bit, but thought this was interesting. I am going to introduce my own little list.

7 DEBATING TACTICS POLITICIANS USE:

1. Enter the strawman: Tremendously exagerate your opponents position and then claim to fight against a position they don't hold. Enter the "Top 10 myths"
2. Blitzkrieg: Blast opponent with so many accusations/data that they can't possibly respond. Enter the entire page of the final 64 tournament and once again "Top 10 myths".
3. Bait and Switch: When a claim is made and your opponent refutes it, don't try to respond, simply change the subject. Too numerous to mention.
4. Attack the messenger: Instead of addressing the argument at hand, attack the person making it. Reason for name calling.
5. History will be kind to me for I intend to write it: Try to rewrite history to claim a debate in a previous time was different then it actually was. How successful was the 3 class system from before?
6. I'm not hearing you: Totally ignore what your opponent is saying and move on to something else. Too numerous to mention.
7. Motives matter, results don't: If results don't work for your argument, use the motives. Vice versa. Once again, used many times.

Not really trying to call anybody out here, but is a very interesting read.

ClassB4Ever, I have to give credit where credit is due. That post was pure brilliance. That's me in a nutshell, and you captured it.

You score today's point. I have no comeback. We'll play again tomorrow.

[thatguy422]

Sorry to get off track here just a bit, but thought this was interesting. I am going to introduce my own little list.

7 DEBATING TACTICS POLITICIANS USE:

1. Enter the strawman: Tremendously exagerate your opponents position and then claim to fight against a position they don't hold. Enter the "Top 10 myths"
2. Blitzkrieg: Blast opponent with so many accusations/data that they can't possibly respond. Enter the entire page of the final 64 tournament and once again "Top 10 myths".
3. Bait and Switch: When a claim is made and your opponent refutes it, don't try to respond, simply change the subject. Too numerous to mention.
4. Attack the messenger: Instead of addressing the argument at hand, attack the person making it. Reason for name calling.
5. History will be kind to me for I intend to write it: Try to rewrite history to claim a debate in a previous time was different then it actually was. How successful was the 3 class system from before?
6. I'm not hearing you: Totally ignore what your opponent is saying and move on to something else. Too numerous to mention.
7. Motives matter, results don't: If results don't work for your argument, use the motives. Vice versa. Once again, used many times.

Not really trying to call anybody out here, but is a very interesting read.

ClassB4Ever, I have to give credit where credit is due. That post was pure brilliance. That's me in a nutshell, and you captured it.

You score today's point. I have no comeback. We'll play again tomorrow.

Steve is a politician :O

[baseball]

I have no comeback.

just took 15 pages....

[ndlionsfan]

I emailed the NDHSAA about where to find the financial reports for the last 15 state tournaments. They said that only the last two years are posted online (the numbers that I posted earlier) but the rest are on paper copies in their yearbook of meeting minutes at the office in VC. They said anyone is welcome to view them at anytime. I live too far away to go to VC for an afternoon and rearch this. But Steve, since you are fairly close and want to prove your point about the gate receipts on the decline for the last 15 years, here's your chance!!

[winner-within]

Sorry to get off track here just a bit, but thought this was interesting. I am going to introduce my own little list.

7 DEBATING TACTICS POLITICIANS USE:

1. Enter the strawman: Tremendously exagerate your opponents position and then claim to fight against a position they don't hold. Enter the "Top 10 myths"
2. Blitzkrieg: Blast opponent with so many accusations/data that they can't possibly respond. Enter the entire page of the final 64 tournament and once again "Top 10 myths".
3. Bait and Switch: When a claim is made and your opponent refutes it, don't try to respond, simply change the subject. Too numerous to mention.
4. Attack the messenger: Instead of addressing the argument at hand, attack the person making it. Reason for name calling.
5. History will be kind to me for I intend to write it: Try to rewrite history to claim a debate in a previous time was different then it actually was. How successful was the 3 class system from before?
6. I'm not hearing you: Totally ignore what your opponent is saying and move on to something else. Too numerous to mention.
7. Motives matter, results don't: If results don't work for your argument, use the motives. Vice versa. Once again, used many times.

Not really trying to call anybody out here, but is a very interesting read.

ClassB4Ever, I have to give credit where credit is due. That post was pure brilliance. That's me in a nutshell, and you captured it.[b]

You score today's point. I have no comeback. We'll play again tomorrow.

you mean you honestly believe that nobody else had their doubts?

[steve34]

I am not a politician. But I do debate like one. But, I am no master debater.

[digger]

But, I am no master debater.

Sneaky steve, very sneaky.

[winner-within]

I am not a politician. But I do debate like one. But, I am no master debater.

that's not what I heard LOL!

[Zelda]

Well, now we know the radio guy who hates Class B is no politician, but maybe he could look to be one (in another state). Surprising, how badly he wanted to have VC part of B, without having to follow the by-laws, that he has these terrible thoughts of it. Well, glad to hear that he won't be broadcasting any of our District games, that is a relief! We don't need him spinning his web of lies about our kids and fans any longer.

[Flying Wallenda]

Well, now we know the radio guy who hates Class B is no politician, but maybe he could look to be one (in another state). Surprising, how badly he wanted to have VC part of B, without having to follow the by-laws, that he has these terrible thoughts of it. Well, glad to hear that he won't be broadcasting any of our District games, that is a relief! We don't need him spinning his web of lies about our kids and fans any longer.

Why won't he be broadcasting in the district?

[EHS1998]

Well, now we know the radio guy who hates Class B is no politician

Actually, if this is who we think it is research indicates he had a short lived run for governor a few years back.

In his defense, I will say he is a very good play by play guy, I think it is a loss not to have him do District 5 tourney games. I think we may be at a point where we should give him a break, he obviously is very passionate in his beliefs, as all of us on here are. Sometimes we go too far (I certainly have before), and maybe he did here. He has brought some very good perspective to the argument and he is a very good advocate for ND High School Athletics, I am going to choose to focus on the good he has done and continues to do, rather than some regrettable statements made in the heat of an argument.

[Bisonguy06]

The rest of us were in this argument too, and we didn't cross the line like he did. Let's not give him too much "credit."

[sportsguy2]

Well, now we know the radio guy who hates Class B is no politician

Actually, if this is who we think it is research indicates he had a short lived run for governor a few years back.

In his defense, I will say he is a very good play by play guy, I think it is a loss not to have him do District 5 tourney games. I think we may be at a point where we should give him a break, he obviously is very passionate in his beliefs, as all of us on here are. Sometimes we go too far (I certainly have before), and maybe he did here. He has brought some very good perspective to the argument and he is a very good advocate for ND High School Athletics, I am going to choose to focus on the good he has done and continues to do, rather than some regrettable statements made in the heat of an argument.

Ill stick with Mark McKenzie

[EHS1998]

Well, now we know the radio guy who hates Class B is no politician

Actually, if this is who we think it is research indicates he had a short lived run for governor a few years back.

In his defense, I will say he is a very good play by play guy, I think it is a loss not to have him do District 5 tourney games. I think we may be at a point where we should give him a break, he obviously is very passionate in his beliefs, as all of us on here are. Sometimes we go too far (I certainly have before), and maybe he did here. He has brought some very good perspective to the argument and he is a very good advocate for ND High School Athletics, I am going to choose to focus on the good he has done and continues to do, rather than some regrettable statements made in the heat of an argument.

Ill stick with Mark McKenzie

Fair enough.

[avidsportster]

Flying Wallenda, He won't be broadcasting our districts because he said on air something to the effect (not quoting, as I don't recall exactly word for word) that he wouldn't be do any more broadcasting of LAMoure games and more of that sort.

No, I wouldn't want him broadcasting our games EVER again. He has destroyed his connection with the town of LaMoure with his foul talk, he is not a child making this mistake, he has been around for more than three decades, so if he talks like this, this IS who he is as an adult. He would do a disservice to our kids. He obviously is passionate in his beliefs, but has no respect for anyone else's.

I as well would be fine with any other broadcasters, as they had nothing to do with his conduct.

[luvmy3gbb1wr]

also this is not the only time nor the first time he has been nasty on the air while broadcasting......i believe two years ago he was absolutely awful towards a richland girls team playing f-s-h-p........caused quite a stir with his remarks directed towards the ballplayers, lots of folks complained.......he knows what he's doing and saying.......listening to volleyball dist 5 games this year done by him was awful too. the constant complaining about the facilities etc and how awful it was that this valley city girl couldn't get her jump serve in because the gym was too small, etc. yet other girls (not on valley) were able to do one....etc. etc.

i can't stand to listen to him

[avidsportster]

That is very sad to hear that he is so low as to be cutting down kids on air. Not surprised at his broadcasting and complaining about a Class "B" facility. He has done that over and over, but yet is so raged by the thought that VC is not qualified to be Class "B". Apparently, all are to look the other way and allow it to happen just because he, definitely not a Messiah (a word he likes to loosely throw around), wants it to be that way.

I never paid much attention, as that radio station is not my choice for listening pleasure, and now I definitely won't waste my time if he is on the air.

I would have to wonder if Steve34 didn't air some of those complaints on the board here somewhere. Very likely if one wanted to go back and read, but I was sickened reading some of his rude and ridiculing remarks.

[nsufever]

I heard that he had to "apologize" (if you can call it that) on air, he was suspended a day, and cannot comment about this issue on air again. He also will not be airing the games in the VC district, not because he says he won't, but he is now not allowed to do it. Now, he says that he is upset because LaMoure hasn't recognized all of the good he has done for them. He doesn't get it, the ads and sponsors pay his salary for him to do these things. He continues to do this to people, he criticized another radio guy in Fargo a while back and ran him down the mill and said how he should be fired, with no consideration that this guys parents living in VC, and likely were hearing this. That is the kind of guy he is. He has NO credibility, so professionals don't acknowledge someone like him and his rantings. I would guess that is his biggest issue with all of this, as he always wants to get the last word.

[Bisonguy06]

Yeah, good luck getting a genuine apology from that guy. He wrote on preps for two years with reckless abandon. He tore people down left and right and never once showed any remorse for the things he said. I don't understand why any station would give him a microphone.

[TapouTfighter]

I dont post on here much but i'm just curious. According to the ndhsaa website, the state b tournament has 8 teams in it. Nowhere does it say that the state tournament is the beginning of elimination play. When did you get the power to change their rules??? Also, if we want to talk about the rarity of getting to the state tourney, we can look at the numbers. As I am a math teacher and know a bit about probability 8 class A teams out of 20 go to the state tournament. That is 40 percent and you are correct. But if we look at the class B we have 8 out of 64. The probability of this is one out of 8 or 12.5 percent. I am basing my numbers on teams that have a possibility of going to state starting with the beginning of the district tourney. It makes no difference that districts are double elimination because probability takes the favorable outcomes (8 teams to state) divided by total outcomes (64? teams total). Therefore from a strictly mathematical view, a Class B team has a lower chance of getting to state due to the total number of teams involved trying to get there. i will change my numbers when the ndhsaa says the state tourney starts at regionals

[JW_14]

64 teams is pretty generous, there are definitely more than that

[TapouTfighter]

Right, I was just using his number. I am also curious where the numbers came from where he states that a good class B team will beat an average class A team half of the time or whatever. When have the class A teams and class B teams collided to get this information? I watch mythbusters occasionally and they usually have some evidence to back their stuff up. Or theres at least an explosion to distract me on there. I didnt see any here much to my disappointment!