Dickinson Trinity Should be moved to Class A

[COACHWEST]

The one thing that you miss is the all mighty TV contract.  Along with scheduling problems (there is already too much packed into a school year) TV contracts ARE an issue for NDHSAA.

[xcolt90]

Why would the tv be a problem?  Have the tv stations make a bid and see what they want to put on tv.  It's not a problem right now that we have no wrestling on TV.  Nobody seems to care about that.  One of the tournaments might not be on tv.  Or maybe another station could carry the other tournament.  There are solutions out there, we just have to get the ball rolling.

All of these responses are minor issues that can all be cleared up with a little ingenuity.  North Dakota has a big problem with change but it's time we start looking at things a little differently.  We changed the girls season to winter because everyone else had it that way.  Well, everyone else has more than 2 classes of basketball.

I also like Minnesota going to 18 minute halves instead of 8 minute quarters.  The coaches in that state, stated that basketball had the least amount of game time amongst their sports.  Hockey had 45 minutes, football had 48 minutes and basketball 32.  That's one of the reasons they changed.

It's very hard for me to see a time when North Dakota was the leader in things like change.  Another thing that needs to change is that we need a shot clock in class B.

[xcolt90]

Here is part of an article on last years 3 class vote.  Apparently it can and does work and financially they didn't kill their state Association, like is feared up here.

Wayne Carney, the executive secretary of the South Dakota High School Athletic Association, said there's no doubt a three-class system can work. South Dakota initiated a three-class plan for the 1985-86 school year and he said there would be fur flying if they tried to back to the old two-class system (32 Class A and the remainder Class B).

"You'd have a hard time convincing a lot of our 'B' schools to go back, and you'd have a hard time convincing the largest of the 64 (middle division) teams to go back and become the smallest of Class A," Carney said. "... It's here to stay. I can't ever see us going back."

Currently, South Dakota's breakdown is 17 AA schools (the largest 16 and a team that petitioned up), 64 Class A teams (by enrollment) and 100 Class B teams. There are six state tournaments at six separate sites. "The girls all go one weekend at three different sites, and the boys follow a weekend later at three different sites," Carney said.

[timmyg]

a three class system would ruin the tradition of the b tourney.  north dakota is simply not big enough for the three class system as well.  we'd be ruining something pretty sacred if we did away with a true class b state tournament.  The schools that everyone has a conception that are so huge aren't necessarily as big as people think.  for example, mpcg is thought to be big school, but in reality schools such as thompson and larimore have a bigger enrollment.  programs at successful schools don't necessarily have to do with numbers, but with tradition and hard work.  a good coach is going to want to coach at a school with a good program (i.e. oak grove, mpcg, botno).  yes, north dakota isn't real big on change, but why change something that is a trademark and past time of our state?

[xcolt90]

Equity, to answer your question.

A Class A school has a 36% chance of making it to state, a Class B team has a 6% chance of making it.  No wonder Class A teams that can move down aren't sure they want to and don't petition to do so.

The B would be the B no matter how many classes there are.  Your information supports the fact that the B wouldn't change.  Maybe some of the same teams would be in the lower class, but then it would still give 8 more teams a chance to go to the state tournament.

My arguement has more to do with giving kids an opportunity to play in a state tournament than it does with knocking down the "best programs".  When Trinity has been there 7 of 8 years, Shiloh 4 of 5, and Mayport quite often as well as Minot Ryan, then our system is flawed.  Why do you think the Pro Leagues keep putting in salary caps, to get parity and look at the NCAA tournament, they have great parity.   Right now in Class B we have no parity, we have power houses that continue to win their regional birth.  Whether it's easy or not has nothing to do with the fact that they are monopolizing the bids to state.

This is my last post about this subject as I am obviously in the minority.

[ndsubball]

If you want more class B to have a better chance of getting to state have a west B and an East B which would have 2 teams the champion and the 2nd place to make it to state in each region

 

[B-ball1]

I doubt that will happen but you are right they will not get moved up so everyone needs to quit complaining and just move on

[carolina blue]

everyone knows that if trinity keeps up the success then the complaints will just keep rolling in. like people have said before, if your sick of trinity being successful, then use that as motivation to dethrone them. sitting around and complaining isn't gonna help get over the hump.

[exwestcoach]

In general winning and loosing can be said to go in "cycles". Those of us who remember the days when Trinity could not win a game in Class A to save their souls, no pun intended. One has to give them credit, from a school recruiting perspective. They have been able to enroll good student/athletes for the last number of years. Also, their coaches have been around for a while, they have found a scheme that is working and they are running with it. More power to them, they will have their down times, they should enjoy the current run of success. 

[exwestcoach]

If my information is correct both Bismarck St. Mary's and Fargo Shanley have enrollments that would allow them to move down a class. God knows they have not been setting any records (except basketball 3 yrs ago, look what has happened since). I also understand the two teams that could be moved up a class are Belcourt and Valley City, how would they fair by that upward move? Are they winning now?    

[nativegolfer]

Actually Bismarck St. Mary's has an enrollment of 375 and the cut off for class B is 325.  Found that info on the NDHSAA site.  Shanley is at 305.  exwestcoach, what do you mean by Belcourt and VC being moved up?  They are both class A in BB.

[Saucesauer]

Those private schools are in much bigger communities and have more opitions and probably more money. Not for sure but i think i heard trinity has won their region like 10 years in a row. Move to Class A!!! It true that families with money TEND(not always) to have their kids in sports and families with money send their kids to private schools. Atleast most trinity to Class A. Their either scared or like pounding on tiny small town schools.

hahaha and IM PRETTY SURE dickinson is not 13 miles wide their buddy! go back to school. Also Fargo is barley 25 SQUARE miles


Another point Private schools can Recrute. Thats not too far class B can not compete with that.
 

who many kids in your right mind do you think are going to want to be recruited by a class b school and play for them

and if class a town b schools should have to go to class a than there should be absolutly no coopping at all there is absolutly no reason for a steel dawson wing tuttle center stanton mayport c g it is rediculas you are losing the one ting most people think of when they watch class b that one single star hence kyle carr and various others, what about the girls teams like when they play mandan they would get torn appart mandan bwins championships by 20 pts should they make a special league for them we could call it class AA or mndan league or somthing there is absoluly no point in doing it

[Saucesauer]

Actually Bismarck St. Mary's has an enrollment of 375 and the cut off for class B is 325.  Found that info on the NDHSAA site.  Shanley is at 305.  exwestcoach, what do you mean by Belcourt and VC being moved up?  They are both class A in BB.

belcourt faired good but vc got ripped apart

[scruffy]

After months of reading "Trinity bashing", I had to register and reply.  My children attend Dickinson Trinity.  We do not recruit, we do not limit enrollment, we are not the largest school in class "B", and we are NOT all wealthy.  I am on our schools marketing committee, and the only children we reach out to are the one to four year olds.  We are doing this to try to stabilize our enrollment which is dropping like most schools in the state.  If we limited enrollment, why would we do it 140 below the class "B" limit!  Think about it!!  In our district next year we will be only the third or fourth largest school (trailing Beulah, Hazen, and possible Killdeer).  For your information, we could compete in nine man football in two years.  I am not wealthy, but make a sacrifice to send our kids to Trinity. I don't want my kids in a school where God is banned.  That is my choice.  I will not force the issue on other people, but in return I don't want to be blasted for making that choice.  Other schools like Mayville-Portland  have success in sports like we do, yet no one seems to mind.  Why the bias against private schools?

[NATURAL TALENT]

Just when I thought this topic was done, you just had to go wake it up again didnt ya!!;)

[4sportgenius]

why don't you guys want to go class A? you have made it to state in basketball and ithink football the last few years.

[scruffy]

We were class "A" up until 1991.  From 1981-1991 we simply could not compete, and we still couldn't today.  At this springs state basketball tournament, we were the fourth largest school out of eight.  We will be around 150 kids in grades nine through twelve next year, and may drop to around 120 before we level off.  We aren't as big of a school as most people think.  We have been extremely fortunate to have the quality of athlets that we have had the last few years, but I believe this is cyclical.

[timmyg]

Scruffy's right, trinity is a class b school and should stay that way.  They have a successful tradition, and of course success fuels success because winners know how to win.  If Scruffy's number are right, which I'm sure they are, there is no way that trinity should be class A.  If you look at some schools on the eastern part of the state, such as Larimore, Grafton, and Thompson, they all have a higher enrollment than a mayport, who, too, has a tradition of success.  Should we move them up to class A?  Look at Grafton who was class a few years ago, they are now class B and field average programs.  It comes down to this: just because trinity produces marvelous athletes year after year, they become the target of scrutiny.  But if these athletes show up consistantly it has to say something about the hard work of the kids and coaches in the program, not necessarily that they recruit or whatnot.  Look at mayport's success in basketball, do they recruit?  how about thompson's stellar baseball teams of the past few year, do they recruit?  Or cavalier's football teams, do they?  No, it all has to come down to the hard work of the players and coaches in the programs, and obviously these programs, and trinity, have put in their time.  So why should trinity be punished for their hard work by being moved up?  They shouldn't, and they're programs could serve as a good model of success to programs that may be struggling, and of course, it always adds to the competitiveness to have a consistantly good team out there because that makes kids work even harder.  Bottom line: Trinity is class B, and should stay class B as long as their enrollment falls into that category.

[ndfan]

Agree with TimmyG

[nativegolfer]

According to NDHSAA website.  Thompson and Larimore have enrollments smaller than May-Port.  Grafton is larger.  Get your facts straight before you spout off! 

[4sportgenius]