3 class proposal

[BasketballMind]

The phrase getting thrown around a lot during this is “competive balance”. There’s no such thing as competitive balance and never has been. I really don’t think this is going to fix anything.

Any objections to going to one class?

One class would be better than three classes.

[Flip]

The phrase getting thrown around a lot during this is “competive balance”. There’s no such thing as competitive balance and never has been. I really don’t think this is going to fix anything.

Any objections to going to one class?

One class would be better than three classes.

That is quite the take.
Care to elaborate on why two classes is the best, one is next, and three classes would be the worst?

[ballaholic#3]

Hybrid model:

1. Class A- WDA (3), EDC(3), North Star (2)- split smaller A schools into a separate conference. Word is that this is a possibility if 3-class fails.

2. Class B- Take the 3-class proposal of Class 'B' regions and split into 6 regions. From the middle class of the recent proposal, remove EKM, Harvey-Wells County, Oakes, Hatton-Northwood, Hazen, Midway-Minto, PRFL, Sargent County, Carrington, MPCG, and Killdeer. Sprinkle those teams into the 6 regions. Top 2 in each region advance to Sweet 16 (12 schools).

Split the remaining Class A schools into two regions with top 2 in each region advancing to Sweet 16 (4 schools). Then, seed the 16 teams (A & B combined) and play a game to enter 1 state tournament. The state tournament will only see a max of 4 big schools/privates and more small schools get a chance to advance. Win-win.

Sweet 16= 4 bigs/privates/bedroom communities and 12 small schools

[BasketballMind]

The phrase getting thrown around a lot during this is “competive balance”. There’s no such thing as competitive balance and never has been. I really don’t think this is going to fix anything.

Any objections to going to one class?

One class would be better than three classes.

That is quite the take.
Care to elaborate on why two classes is the best, one is next, and three classes would be the worst?

A three class system will not solve the problems people think it will. The logistics of it with scheduling games, tournaments, and dealing with enrollments/co-ops dissolving to “stay down” are enough for me to not support it. This does not consider girls basketball for one second. This is a group of people that want Oak Grove, Shiloh, Bishop Ryan, and Trinity out of class B. Anyone else trying to sell this as competitive balance is fooling themself.

A one class system would at the worst look like the NCAA and they could have a 64 team tournament. An “NIT” for the small schools that don’t qualify. Maybe a team like Four Winds last year makes a “Final Four” run. Just a suggestion as a possible outcome. A 3 class system will not make your teams or players better. Nowadays people seem to think a state tournament is their right and unfortunately not everyone gets to go.

[Flip]

A three class system will not solve the problems people think it will. The logistics of it with scheduling games, tournaments, and dealing with enrollments/co-ops dissolving to “stay down” are enough for me to not support it. This does not consider girls basketball for one second. This is a group of people that want Oak Grove, Shiloh, Bishop Ryan, and Trinity out of class B. Anyone else trying to sell this as competitive balance is fooling themself.

I've said a lot of this before, but I hope they get a three class plan passed. I'm sure there are things that won't be considered in the original plan that they will tweak from year-to-year to make it better. I wish people were more open to that. I think so many people think if this plan gets passed Midway-Minto is going to be playing in the middle class for the next 50 years. The first time I read the proposed plan I thought, "It really looks like a plan just to get the private schools in the middle class." Even if that is true, the effects of that help girls' basketball. It gives the smaller schools in region 1 and region 2 a more balanced playing field.

[WalkingStick]

There is no magic fix, but four classes will result in fewer complaints than three, so let's just do that.

But yet people complain over the football setup of 4 classes...so maybe we should look at 6 classes...more trophies to give out

[packers21]

A three class system will not solve the problems people think it will. The logistics of it with scheduling games, tournaments, and dealing with enrollments/co-ops dissolving to “stay down” are enough for me to not support it. This does not consider girls basketball for one second. This is a group of people that want Oak Grove, Shiloh, Bishop Ryan, and Trinity out of class B. Anyone else trying to sell this as competitive balance is fooling themself.

I've said a lot of this before, but I hope they get a three class plan passed. I'm sure there are things that won't be considered in the original plan that they will tweak from year-to-year to make it better. I wish people were more open to that. I think so many people think if this plan gets passed Midway-Minto is going to be playing in the middle class for the next 50 years. The first time I read the proposed plan I thought, "It really looks like a plan just to get the private schools in the middle class." Even if that is true, the effects of that help girls' basketball. It gives the smaller schools in region 1 and region 2 a more balanced playing field.

You can schedule anyone you want for 8-10 games for competitive balance in Region 2 already.

[Flip]

You can schedule anyone you want for 8-10 games for competitive balance in Region 2 already.

I should have said small(er) schools will have a chance to go to state.

[Flying Wallenda]

It seems strange that everyone is being thrusted back into a district tournament format, which will increase greatly the number of games that don't count in the standings and the amount of travel (imagine being from Rugby and being forced to travel 3 times in a week to Grand Forks for districts).

[packers21]

You can schedule anyone you want for 8-10 games for competitive balance in Region 2 already.

I should have said small(er) schools will have a chance to go to state.

I understand what you are saying but I just do not completely agree with you.

[Flip]

Newest Proposal 8/26/2022
https://sites.google.com/view/threeclassproposal/home?authuser=0

[WalkingStick]

It seems strange that everyone is being thrusted back into a district tournament format, which will increase greatly the number of games that don't count in the standings and the amount of travel (imagine being from Rugby and being forced to travel 3 times in a week to Grand Forks for districts).

Mine has Rugby in the NW region (which would be Minot area if I were to give locations...at worst Watford City)

[Sorenson23]

IMO! The newest proposal as of August 26th looks pretty balanced to me.

[Flip]

I've heard some rumblings that the teams in the potential middle class don't want the 3 class system. One of the arguments is the small teams in the middle class won't compete against Wahpeton and Valley City. It makes my hair hurt when I hear that. Does Maple River have a chance vs Kindred and CC? What about DVE vs Grafton and Thompson? I'm sure there are examples out west that I can't think of. There are a lot more teams that can't compete now than in the new proposal.

[Sportsrube]

I've heard some rumblings that the teams in the potential middle class don't want the 3 class system. One of the arguments is the small teams in the middle class won't compete against Wahpeton and Valley City. It makes my hair hurt when I hear that. Does Maple River have a chance vs Kindred and CC? What about DVE vs Grafton and Thompson? I'm sure there are examples out west that I can't think of. There are a lot more teams that can't compete now than in the new proposal.

I agree. There is never going to be a perfect system because of the large range of school sizes we have in ND. But in my opinion, this latest proposal is much better than what we have now. Will it increase participation numbers - I don't know, but I think the 3 class system is more fair to more schools than what we currently have.

[packers21]

New plan is even worse

[q]

https://www.hillsborobanner.com/news/article_55d88320-35b4-11ed-93ec-eb08a624b4d6.html

[defensewinsgames]

https://www.hillsborobanner.com/news/article_55d88320-35b4-11ed-93ec-eb08a624b4d6.html

Of course HCV is opposed....which 8 teams will they kill by 40+ points a season? How will they be guaranteed a trip to state ever 2 or 3 years? How will they be a virtual lock every season to be in the region semifinal?

[Flip]

I feel like 80+% of the people that don't like the plan have their school in the middle class.

Get it passed and tinker with it. I wish they wouldn't require you to play region games, especially in the middle class. That way a school like HCV (girls) could continue to play Hatton-Northwood, Larimore, Midway-Minto, etc.

[WalkingStick]

I feel like 80+% of the people that don't like the plan have their school in the middle class.

Get it passed and tinker with it. I wish they wouldn't require you to play region games, especially in the middle class. That way a school like HCV (girls) could continue to play Hatton-Northwood, Larimore, Midway-Minto, etc.

Play one region game and the rest can be non-region vs. anyone; that's always been my view. That or adopt our OWN formula for rankings (don't use MN's QRF) and yes, allow any games to be scheduled and rank from there. It can be done...NDHSAA just has to be creative (but that's not their forte)

[defensewinsgames]

I feel like 80+% of the people that don't like the plan have their school in the middle class.

Get it passed and tinker with it. I wish they wouldn't require you to play region games, especially in the middle class. That way a school like HCV (girls) could continue to play Hatton-Northwood, Larimore, Midway-Minto, etc.

I agree with this analysis on where the detractors are from. I also am not a fan of the veiled and often untruthful reasons for why they don't support it. I support/follow one of the class b schools in the new plan. Our region will be huge and travel will be rough some nights; but I am totally in favor of it if it stops the murder by the middle class. I still haven't heard one compelling argument why DVE, FCT, Larimore, Wyndmere, Lakota, Strasburg should be playing HCV, Central Cass, Thompson, Kindred, Four Winds.

[packers21]

I feel like 80+% of the people that don't like the plan have their school in the middle class.

Get it passed and tinker with it. I wish they wouldn't require you to play region games, especially in the middle class. That way a school like HCV (girls) could continue to play Hatton-Northwood, Larimore, Midway-Minto, etc.

I agree with this analysis on where the detractors are from. I also am not a fan of the veiled and often untruthful reasons for why they don't support it. I support/follow one of the class b schools in the new plan. Our region will be huge and travel will be rough some nights; but I am totally in favor of it if it stops the murder by the middle class. I still haven't heard one compelling argument why DVE, FCT, Larimore, Wyndmere, Lakota, Strasburg should be playing HCV, Central Cass, Thompson, Kindred, Four Winds.

Hope you are excited to watch the following state championships on repeat.

Some WF school v. Biz school

Whap v. Devils Lake

Bishop Ryan v. Our Redemers

Travel is a concern during week nights. Another concern is coops dropping schools and no one willing to pick them up.

FCT was the in region semi finals 3 years ago.
W/L won the region 4-5 years ago
Larimore is 6 years removed from being the #1 seed in region 2.
DVE is going to be crap 8 outta 10 years no matter how many divisions you have.

I think a better plan is the North Star for the 15th time.

[Flip]

How does having Wahp, DL, VC, and WC in the largest class change anything for the top class?

DL boys would not be a guaranteed state championship team year in and year out. FW has been a better program over the last decade.

Those Minot schools aren't even in the same class.

Like I said above, get the 3-class plan passed and then make changes every two years, like football. If DL is winning the state titles every year, force them to move up. If HCV can't win a game allow them to move down.

[WalkingStick]

How does having Wahp, DL, VC, and WC in the largest class change anything for the top class?

DL boys would not be a guaranteed state championship team year in and year out. FW has been a better program over the last decade.

Those Minot schools aren't even in the same class.

Like I said above, get the 3-class plan passed and then make changes every two years, like football. If DL is winning the state titles every year, force them to move up. If HCV can't win a game allow them to move down.

But how do you allow movement up and down...will HCV girls be allowed in low class and their boys in the middle?? Moving up and down classes isn't going to be easy cause I could see the State saying if the boys are in the middle then so are the girls

[Flip]

How does having Wahp, DL, VC, and WC in the largest class change anything for the top class?

DL boys would not be a guaranteed state championship team year in and year out. FW has been a better program over the last decade.

Those Minot schools aren't even in the same class.

Like I said above, get the 3-class plan passed and then make changes every two years, like football. If DL is winning the state titles every year, force them to move up. If HCV can't win a game allow them to move down.

But how do you allow movement up and down...will HCV girls be allowed in low class and their boys in the middle?? Moving up and down classes isn't going to be easy cause I could see the State saying if the boys are in the middle then so are the girls

I think they should allow HCV boys in the middle and the girls in B if the girls qualify. I could also see the state saying that isn't allowed.

Not quite the same, but you'll have schools in MN where the boys are in one section (region) and the girls are in another. The world doesn't end either.