3 class proposal

[packers21]

The Schwab, I agree with you 100%. Since we don't have a time machine to break up any/many of these co-ops, the next best thing is to get a 3-class system passed as soon as possible.

Who do you cheer for ?

[Thundersnow]

Who do I cheer for?

I cheer for the state of North Dakota. I cheer for schools that are big and small, public and private. I cheer for the coaches who win state championships and for the coaches who go winless for an entire season. I cheer for the players who are future D-1 athletes and for the players who rarely see the floor. I cheer for high quality basketball and for basketball that maybe isn't high quality, but is highly competitive. I cheer for a 3-class system.

For Class AA, a 3-class system will provide more scheduling flexibility and more competitive games. For those that want to challenge themselves, they can go play out-of-state tournaments. For those that are rebuilding, they could schedule some games against Class A teams.

For Class A, a 3-class system provides a home for the homeless. Those moving down into a middle class will no longer have to be beaten by 50 points on a nightly basis. The "Big B's" can now have the same scheduling flexibility that AA could get. Want to challenge yourself? Play a statewide schedule against your class and maybe even a AA team or 2. Find yourself in a rebuilding phase? Play your region opponents and then fill out your schedule with Class B teams.

For Class B, a 3-class system allows them to stay alive. There will still be perennial powers, there will still be underdogs. Teams will cycle through highs and lows. We won't have new co-ops every year. Small schools and small towns can stay on the map.

You can say this sounds cliche, naive, or whatever but that is who I cheer for.

[Sportsrube]

Who do I cheer for?

I cheer for the state of North Dakota. I cheer for schools that are big and small, public and private. I cheer for the coaches who win state championships and for the coaches who go winless for an entire season. I cheer for the players who are future D-1 athletes and for the players who rarely see the floor. I cheer for high quality basketball and for basketball that maybe isn't high quality, but is highly competitive. I cheer for a 3-class system.

For Class AA, a 3-class system will provide more scheduling flexibility and more competitive games. For those that want to challenge themselves, they can go play out-of-state tournaments. For those that are rebuilding, they could schedule some games against Class A teams.

For Class A, a 3-class system provides a home for the homeless. Those moving down into a middle class will no longer have to be beaten by 50 points on a nightly basis. The "Big B's" can now have the same scheduling flexibility that AA could get. Want to challenge yourself? Play a statewide schedule against your class and maybe even a AA team or 2. Find yourself in a rebuilding phase? Play your region opponents and then fill out your schedule with Class B teams.

For Class B, a 3-class system allows them to stay alive. There will still be perennial powers, there will still be underdogs. Teams will cycle through highs and lows. We won't have new co-ops every year. Small schools and small towns can stay on the map.

You can say this sounds cliche, naive, or whatever but that is who I cheer for.

Extremely well said. I agree 100%. The current system is broken and to me the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. I hope this passes and we give it a shot. We can always go back to "this is how we've always done it" if it doesn't work. I honestly think the NDHSAA is more worried about losing money on TV contracts for the State Tournaments than they are about quality of games and participation numbers.

[ndlionsfan]

For Class AA, a 3-class system will provide more scheduling flexibility and more competitive games. For those that want to challenge themselves, they can go play out-of-state tournaments. For those that are rebuilding, they could schedule some games against Class A teams.

For Class A, a 3-class system provides a home for the homeless. Those moving down into a middle class will no longer have to be beaten by 50 points on a nightly basis. The "Big B's" can now have the same scheduling flexibility that AA could get. Want to challenge yourself? Play a statewide schedule against your class and maybe even a AA team or 2. Find yourself in a rebuilding phase? Play your region opponents and then fill out your schedule with Class B teams.

For Class B, a 3-class system allows them to stay alive. There will still be perennial powers, there will still be underdogs. Teams will cycle through highs and lows. We won't have new co-ops every year. Small schools and small towns can stay on the map.

Good post! This is what I am hoping for in a 3-class plan as well. Will it solve everything and it all be 100% fair....absolutely not. But it will help way more teams than it will hurt and it will lead to much more competitive basketball across all classes.

[packers21]

Who do I cheer for?

I cheer for the state of North Dakota. I cheer for schools that are big and small, public and private. I cheer for the coaches who win state championships and for the coaches who go winless for an entire season. I cheer for the players who are future D-1 athletes and for the players who rarely see the floor. I cheer for high quality basketball and for basketball that maybe isn't high quality, but is highly competitive. I cheer for a 3-class system.

For Class AA, a 3-class system will provide more scheduling flexibility and more competitive games. For those that want to challenge themselves, they can go play out-of-state tournaments. For those that are rebuilding, they could schedule some games against Class A teams.

For Class A, a 3-class system provides a home for the homeless. Those moving down into a middle class will no longer have to be beaten by 50 points on a nightly basis. The "Big B's" can now have the same scheduling flexibility that AA could get. Want to challenge yourself? Play a statewide schedule against your class and maybe even a AA team or 2. Find yourself in a rebuilding phase? Play your region opponents and then fill out your schedule with Class B teams.

For Class B, a 3-class system allows them to stay alive. There will still be perennial powers, there will still be underdogs. Teams will cycle through highs and lows. We won't have new co-ops every year. Small schools and small towns can stay on the map.

You can say this sounds cliche, naive, or whatever but that is who I cheer for.

I'll call it what is was and it was a cop-out answer.

You are going to cheer for a system that has G/B state tournaments and on the same weekends? That is cheering for North Dakota basketball? I cannot wait to watch the Devils Lake GBB team play South Prairie or Carrington!

AA-Could already flexible schedule state-wide if they wanted. The state doesn't make them play twice.

A-ALL B TEAMS CAN LITERALLY DO WHAT YOU ARE ARGUING! And I also will reiterate I am pro-change but not this plan.

B-Have success programs across the state sustained strong numbers? The evidence doesn't actually support this, this is something the creators of the plan are saying to play with heart-strings.

Examples: Kindred GBB. Davies GBB and 6 man football

I just do not see this plan as the right move for the state, if you are truly a fan of everything you listed above.

[Thundersnow]

State tournaments being played on the same weekend isn't optimal. But it's certainly not a deal breaker for me.

AA - Why do none of them do it currently then? Do the EDC and WDA really hold that much power over the individual programs and the state?

A - That is my point. The best teams are already creating their own statewide schedules. If Kindred, Shiloh, and Four Winds-Minnewaukan can continue what they're already doing, what is so wrong with playing in a different class from Tri-State, Flasher and New England?

B - No doubt participation numbers are down at all levels, and yes at times with good programs too. Does the potential move to a 3-class system increase the chance of lower participation numbers or does it provide a shot in the arm that maybe could help participation numbers?

So your idea is to leave it as it is?

Everyone knows exactly what will happen if we stay on our current trajectory. Games will become more lopsided in Class A: Century will beat Turtle Mountain by 65 in girls. West Fargo will beat Valley City by 55 in boys. Watford City boys will go 0-84 for the next 4 years.

Class B will lose more teams every single year. Meanwhile the rich get richer. Interest in high school basketball and sports generally will continue to dwindle. There will be roughly 10 good teams in Class A and maybe 20 in Class B. The best teams will continue to get better (which is a good thing), but the bad teams will continue to get worse or quit completely.

I don't understand the unwillingness to try a 3-class system.

[packers21]

State tournaments being played on the same weekend isn't optimal. But it's certainly not a deal breaker for me.

AA - Why do none of them do it currently then? Do the EDC and WDA really hold that much power over the individual programs and the state?

A - That is my point. The best teams are already creating their own statewide schedules. If Kindred, Shiloh, and Four Winds-Minnewaukan can continue what they're already doing, what is so wrong with playing in a different class from Tri-State, Flasher and New England?

B - No doubt participation numbers are down at all levels, and yes at times with good programs too. Does the potential move to a 3-class system increase the chance of lower participation numbers or does it provide a shot in the arm that maybe could help participation numbers?

So your idea is to leave it as it is?

Everyone knows exactly what will happen if we stay on our current trajectory. Games will become more lopsided in Class A: Century will beat Turtle Mountain by 65 in girls. West Fargo will beat Valley City by 55 in boys. Watford City boys will go 0-84 for the next 4 years.

Class B will lose more teams every single year. Meanwhile the rich get richer. Interest in high school basketball and sports generally will continue to dwindle. There will be roughly 10 good teams in Class A and maybe 20 in Class B. The best teams will continue to get better (which is a good thing), but the bad teams will continue to get worse or quit completely.

I don't understand the unwillingness to try a 3-class system.

AA-Those AD's can change the home and away schedule anytime they want to.

Tri-State just made region 1 semi-finals two years ago, Flasher has been to state multiple times in the last decade and New England went to state 10 years ago. Those teams right now can schedule anyone they want right now for 8-10 games for competitive balance, they do not need a 3rd class to do so.

My solution is something similar to the North Star, for the most part the "Homeless" as you call them consists of about 10-12 teams across the state. Give them their own conference and send 1/2 to Class A State every year. I have posted this many times, we wouldn't have to change anything to the current State Tournaments.

[BasketballMind]

State tournaments being played on the same weekend isn't optimal. But it's certainly not a deal breaker for me.

AA - Why do none of them do it currently then? Do the EDC and WDA really hold that much power over the individual programs and the state?

A - That is my point. The best teams are already creating their own statewide schedules. If Kindred, Shiloh, and Four Winds-Minnewaukan can continue what they're already doing, what is so wrong with playing in a different class from Tri-State, Flasher and New England?

B - No doubt participation numbers are down at all levels, and yes at times with good programs too. Does the potential move to a 3-class system increase the chance of lower participation numbers or does it provide a shot in the arm that maybe could help participation numbers?

So your idea is to leave it as it is?

Everyone knows exactly what will happen if we stay on our current trajectory. Games will become more lopsided in Class A: Century will beat Turtle Mountain by 65 in girls. West Fargo will beat Valley City by 55 in boys. Watford City boys will go 0-84 for the next 4 years.

Class B will lose more teams every single year. Meanwhile the rich get richer. Interest in high school basketball and sports generally will continue to dwindle. There will be roughly 10 good teams in Class A and maybe 20 in Class B. The best teams will continue to get better (which is a good thing), but the bad teams will continue to get worse or quit completely.

I don't understand the unwillingness to try a 3-class system.

He said "I am pro change, but not this plan."

Almost everyone that is opposed to it is opposed to what the current plan is. The plan isn't good and won't work or increase participation. Passing a bad plan just for the idea of "change" is the same as doing nothing. Everyone that says "I know this plan is no good, but we should just pass it and see what happens" should be disqualified from discussing this further. It's either a plan with WAY more flexibility between boys and girls basketball, or keeping it the way it is would be a far better solution.

Everyone knows there is an issue with massive blowouts across the state, but the proposed plan isn't the solution, which is exactly what he said. This response to "I don't like the current plan" of "Why are you unwilling to change?" is far too common in this discussion. I am not in favor of passing a terrible plan just to say we changed something.

[classB4ever]

Almost everyone that is opposed to it is opposed to what the current plan is. The plan isn't good and won't work or increase participation. Passing a bad plan just for the idea of "change" is the same as doing nothing. Everyone that says "I know this plan is no good, but we should just pass it and see what happens" should be disqualified from discussing this further. It's either a plan with WAY more flexibility between boys and girls basketball, or keeping it the way it is would be a far better solution.

Everyone knows there is an issue with massive blowouts across the state, but the proposed plan isn't the solution, which is exactly what he said. This response to "I don't like the current plan" of "Why are you unwilling to change?" is far too common in this discussion. I am not in favor of passing a terrible plan just to say we changed something.

A couple of questions:

1. You have mentioned a number of times this plan will not increase participation. Please explain how you know this?

2. You claim this proposal is terrible and lacks flexibility, could you list all the reasons the current proposal is so terrible?

[BasketballMind]

Almost everyone that is opposed to it is opposed to what the current plan is. The plan isn't good and won't work or increase participation. Passing a bad plan just for the idea of "change" is the same as doing nothing. Everyone that says "I know this plan is no good, but we should just pass it and see what happens" should be disqualified from discussing this further. It's either a plan with WAY more flexibility between boys and girls basketball, or keeping it the way it is would be a far better solution.

Everyone knows there is an issue with massive blowouts across the state, but the proposed plan isn't the solution, which is exactly what he said. This response to "I don't like the current plan" of "Why are you unwilling to change?" is far too common in this discussion. I am not in favor of passing a terrible plan just to say we changed something.

A couple of questions:

1. You have mentioned a number of times this plan will not increase participation. Please explain how you know this?

2. You claim this proposal is terrible and lacks flexibility, could you list all the reasons the current proposal is so terrible?

The "increase in participation" point is based on this: The current class B schools getting blown out every night will attract more kids because the level of competition isn't as stiff, right? Makes sense in theory. So now we have to look at everyone else.

Are the girls basketball programs that currently aren't good and moving to the middle class going to get more girls to play? How about the boys programs? They just doubled or tripled their travel and budget, and are now in a worse position than they were in a 2-class system. There are currently 7 girls programs that finished with 6 or fewer wins in 2021-22 in a weak B division that are joining the middle class. (Oak Grove, HCV, Nedrose, Dickinson Trinity, Killdeer, Hazen, Standing Rock) I don't see those programs getting a jolt in numbers in the middle class, I see it being just the opposite. Maybe some of these girls decide basketball isn't for them anymore and they switch over to wrestling? No one brings that up either.

People in favor of this plan don't think about travel costs for each school in the middle class. That will also negatively affect participation. Some families might have make their kids choose one sport instead of 2-3 because they can't afford the travel. Especially those with boys and girls in high school together.

As far as flexibility, the plan does not allow a boys program to be in the middle class and a girls to stay in B or vice versa. Right now there are some bad teams that are being forced to move up on both sides and as far as I'm aware (apologies if something has changed) there is no flexibility there.

The focus of this plan from day one has been to get Oak Grove, Bishop Ryan, Trinity, and Shiloh out of Class B boys basketball by any means necessary. It doesn't consider girls basketball or volleyball and it doesn't care at all about what happens to the teams in the middle. That's why the "lets just get it passed" argument gets thrown around so much. And I have to think it's from people who would be in the lowest class.

A change is probably needed in our state, but this awful plan is not the change that will fix it. And "passing it just to get it passed" is not a good enough reason for me to support it.

[maddog1971]

I really liked the 3 class system for the Current Boys Basketball in this state but I never thought about Girls Volleyball and Basketball. I still support the plan because I want to see better more competitive games and something needs to be done to get the Private schools out of class b. I honestly have no idea how to make it work. The middle class at 32 teams is the right size I believe...
I also would hope that smaller school would drop the coops and start playing on their own to increase the number of kids out for sports.

[The Schwab]

Here's a point to ponder and you can take it for what it is worth. Why does this plan have to include girls basketball and volleyball? Why can't the plan just be for boys basketball? Baseball, track, cross country, golf and wrestling aren't mentioned and they are currently split up into class A and class B.

[ndlionsfan]

Here's a point to ponder and you can take it for what it is worth. Why does this plan have to include girls basketball and volleyball? Why can't the plan just be for boys basketball? Baseball, track, cross country, golf and wrestling aren't mentioned and they are currently split up into class A and class B.

I think it should include all three sports. All of them have been dominated by the same teams in many regions consistently. It might not be the same teams as in boys bball, but I feel we have a competitive balance issue in all three sports.

[packers21]

Here's a point to ponder and you can take it for what it is worth. Why does this plan have to include girls basketball and volleyball? Why can't the plan just be for boys basketball? Baseball, track, cross country, golf and wrestling aren't mentioned and they are currently split up into class A and class B.

I think it should include all three sports. All of them have been dominated by the same teams in many regions consistently. It might not be the same teams as in boys bball, but I feel we have a competitive balance issue in all three sports.

You could make a very strong point that the 3class is needed more in GBB than BBB

[Bison-Vikes #1]

This is no means scientific but as good of explanation as to why Class B boys basketball is most often mentioned in this discussion:

Using the number of views and topics on ND Preps, here is a breakdown of interest:

A Basketball - 1349 Topics - 27411 Posts
Topics: Boys - 941 Girls - 392
Posts: Boys - 20672 Girls - 6660

B Basketball - 3797 Topics - 100149 Posts
Topics: Boys - 2781 Girls - 941
Posts: Boys - 80605 Girls - 17840

There has been so many 3-class topics brought up over the years that it is too many to count. However, just looking at the 1 stream under Class B basketball, the 3-class discussion has over 30 pages of discussion with over 304000 views.

My only point is Class B basketball seems to bring 3:1 more interest than Class A. And in Class B, Boys brings 4:1 more interest than Girls. Once again, this is non-scientific and only from this site but believe is worthy of noting why most of the time the discussion goes to Class B boys basketball.

[maddog1971]

I have been through the girls sports as well and when your team is really good, games are well attended... So I think that the good teams draw just as many fans as good boys teams. ALSO I do believe GVB and GBB need to be part of this as well because the problem is there as well. I would look up the numbers but I really don't have the energy to do so. But we all know about Grafton, Kindred, Shiloh, Langdon and Central Cass being their all the time but what are the other schools?

[classB4ever]

The "increase in participation" point is based on this: The current class B schools getting blown out every night will attract more kids because the level of competition isn't as stiff, right? Makes sense in theory. So now we have to look at everyone else.

Are the girls basketball programs that currently aren't good and moving to the middle class going to get more girls to play? How about the boys programs? They just doubled or tripled their travel and budget, and are now in a worse position than they were in a 2-class system. There are currently 7 girls programs that finished with 6 or fewer wins in 2021-22 in a weak B division that are joining the middle class. (Oak Grove, HCV, Nedrose, Dickinson Trinity, Killdeer, Hazen, Standing Rock) I don't see those programs getting a jolt in numbers in the middle class, I see it being just the opposite. Maybe some of these girls decide basketball isn't for them anymore and they switch over to wrestling? No one brings that up either.

Thanks for your reply. It seems to me you are kind of proving the point that participation would increase. Let me put it this way, you brought up 7 girl's programs to use for your example. What you are stating is they will lose participation because they are now going against tougher competition. Well wouldn't that be saying the same thing for the 74 schools in the lower class having to play against the larger schools in the current system? Also, some of the teams dropping down should also see an increase in participation. That means approximately 74 small schools and 5 larger schools on both boy's and girl's side would see an increase in participation vs. the 7 girls programs you listed.

Also, it seems to me that these schools are not being moved up. Of the 31 schools in the proposed middle class, 26 of the schools are already Class B. 5 schools are actually being moved down. Just because an A is being put in front of the class doesn't mean they are being moved up. Vast majority are current Class B teams.

People in favor of this plan don't think about travel costs for each school in the middle class. That will also negatively affect participation. Some families might have make their kids choose one sport instead of 2-3 because they can't afford the travel. Especially those with boys and girls in high school together.

A majority of schools in the proposed middle class are currently traveling across the state to play against like competition. Also, all these schools are better equipped financially to do this. IMHO, travel has been used for years as an excuse. Every school's travel has increased and there is always the option to schedule more teams in your area if needed.

The focus of this plan from day one has been to get Oak Grove, Bishop Ryan, Trinity, and Shiloh out of Class B boys basketball by any means necessary. It doesn't consider girls basketball or volleyball and it doesn't care at all about what happens to the teams in the middle. That's why the "lets just get it passed" argument gets thrown around so much. And I have to think it's from people who would be in the lowest class.

[/quote]

I strongly disagree with this. IMO, this plan addresses the changing landscape of ND and how it relates to high school sports. As the population has migrated to the larger towns, school identities have changed a lot. Schools on the east have benefitted immensely by being located in and around Fargo/West Fargo/Grand Forks. Schools in the west have benefitted from being located in and around Bismarck and Minot. Open enrollment has allowed talk for a middle class more than anything else. The fact that the private/parochial schools are located in these same towns is just more proof that there are benefits of being located near these population centers.

Thanks for the discussion.

[WalkingStick]

Per Dom Izzo's tweet today:

"A vast majority of private schools are interested in opting up to the middle class; that includes Shiloh Christian, Oak Grove and Dickinson Trinity. Vast majority of private schools are in favor of 3-class proposal, just not the multiplier. Don't want to see this end in lawsuits."

So to be clear...not EVERY private school is against this; just some. In Shiloh, OG & DT's cases...they already would rather play the middle class schools then to play the bottom teams from their respective regions.

I think an all private school tournament should be considered we have 8 in ND and if Shanley & St. Mary's don't want to be in you could probably get two MN teams (EGF Sacred Heart & Park Christian)

[ndlionsfan]

Per Dom Izzo's tweet today:

"A vast majority of private schools are interested in opting up to the middle class; that includes Shiloh Christian, Oak Grove and Dickinson Trinity. Vast majority of private schools are in favor of 3-class proposal, just not the multiplier. Don't want to see this end in lawsuits."

So to be clear...not EVERY private school is against this; just some. In Shiloh, OG & DT's cases...they already would rather play the middle class schools then to play the bottom teams from their respective regions.

I think an all private school tournament should be considered we have 8 in ND and if Shanley & St. Mary's don't want to be in you could probably get two MN teams (EGF Sacred Heart & Park Christian)

So it's just Minot Ryan against it then? Our Redeemers and Williston Trinity are in the lowest class of the proposal already. I would guess that Shanley and St. Mary want to stay in the highest class.

The multiplier is applied to all schools with open enrolled students. I don't see how there could be a legal case that it singles out private schools. Yes, their enrollment numbers are increased more than others but that is part of being a private school without district boundaries and drawing students from a much larger population center.

[WalkingStick]

Per Dom Izzo's tweet today:

"A vast majority of private schools are interested in opting up to the middle class; that includes Shiloh Christian, Oak Grove and Dickinson Trinity. Vast majority of private schools are in favor of 3-class proposal, just not the multiplier. Don't want to see this end in lawsuits."

So to be clear...not EVERY private school is against this; just some. In Shiloh, OG & DT's cases...they already would rather play the middle class schools then to play the bottom teams from their respective regions.

I think an all private school tournament should be considered we have 8 in ND and if Shanley & St. Mary's don't want to be in you could probably get two MN teams (EGF Sacred Heart & Park Christian)

So it's just Minot Ryan against it then? Our Redeemers and Williston Trinity are in the lowest class of the proposal already. I would guess that Shanley and St. Mary want to stay in the highest class.

The multiplier is applied to all schools with open enrolled students. I don't see how there could be a legal case that it singles out private schools. Yes, their enrollment numbers are increased more than others but that is part of being a private school without district boundaries and drawing students from a much larger population center.

Well at least DT, Shiloh & OG were the ones that reached out after his piece on his HotMic show. Who knows what BR thinks but one would think the multiplier actually affects them more than the others

[Flying Wallenda]

The "increase in participation" point is based on this: The current class B schools getting blown out every night will attract more kids because the level of competition isn't as stiff, right? Makes sense in theory. So now we have to look at everyone else.

Are the girls basketball programs that currently aren't good and moving to the middle class going to get more girls to play? How about the boys programs? They just doubled or tripled their travel and budget, and are now in a worse position than they were in a 2-class system. There are currently 7 girls programs that finished with 6 or fewer wins in 2021-22 in a weak B division that are joining the middle class. (Oak Grove, HCV, Nedrose, Dickinson Trinity, Killdeer, Hazen, Standing Rock) I don't see those programs getting a jolt in numbers in the middle class, I see it being just the opposite. Maybe some of these girls decide basketball isn't for them anymore and they switch over to wrestling? No one brings that up either.

Thanks for your reply. It seems to me you are kind of proving the point that participation would increase. Let me put it this way, you brought up 7 girl's programs to use for your example. What you are stating is they will lose participation because they are now going against tougher competition. Well wouldn't that be saying the same thing for the 74 schools in the lower class having to play against the larger schools in the current system? Also, some of the teams dropping down should also see an increase in participation. That means approximately 74 small schools and 5 larger schools on both boy's and girl's side would see an increase in participation vs. the 7 girls programs you listed.

Also, it seems to me that these schools are not being moved up. Of the 31 schools in the proposed middle class, 26 of the schools are already Class B. 5 schools are actually being moved down. Just because an A is being put in front of the class doesn't mean they are being moved up. Vast majority are current Class B teams.

People in favor of this plan don't think about travel costs for each school in the middle class. That will also negatively affect participation. Some families might have make their kids choose one sport instead of 2-3 because they can't afford the travel. Especially those with boys and girls in high school together.

A majority of schools in the proposed middle class are currently traveling across the state to play against like competition. Also, all these schools are better equipped financially to do this. IMHO, travel has been used for years as an excuse. Every school's travel has increased and there is always the option to schedule more teams in your area if needed.

The focus of this plan from day one has been to get Oak Grove, Bishop Ryan, Trinity, and Shiloh out of Class B boys basketball by any means necessary. It doesn't consider girls basketball or volleyball and it doesn't care at all about what happens to the teams in the middle. That's why the "lets just get it passed" argument gets thrown around so much. And I have to think it's from people who would be in the lowest class.

I strongly disagree with this. IMO, this plan addresses the changing landscape of ND and how it relates to high school sports. As the population has migrated to the larger towns, school identities have changed a lot. Schools on the east have benefitted immensely by being located in and around Fargo/West Fargo/Grand Forks. Schools in the west have benefitted from being located in and around Bismarck and Minot. Open enrollment has allowed talk for a middle class more than anything else. The fact that the private/parochial schools are located in these same towns is just more proof that there are benefits of being located near these population centers.

Thanks for the discussion.[/quote]

A majority of schools in the proposed middle class are currently traveling across the state to play against like competition. Also, all these schools are better equipped financially to do this. IMHO, travel has been used for years as an excuse. Every school's travel has increased and there is always the option to schedule more teams in your area if needed.

1) List the majority of schools of the 31 potential middle class schools who travel across the state
2) Explain "the option to schedule more teams in your area if needed"

Thanks

[Flying Wallenda]

Why not more schools in the middle class? Is it due to a perceived lack of competitiveness?

[classB4ever]

A majority of schools in the proposed middle class are currently traveling across the state to play against like competition. Also, all these schools are better equipped financially to do this. IMHO, travel has been used for years as an excuse. Every school's travel has increased and there is always the option to schedule more teams in your area if needed.

1) List the majority of schools of the 31 potential middle class schools who travel across the state
2) Explain "the option to schedule more teams in your area if needed"

Thanks

Qualifier: I am going to assume the schedules for the middle class teams will be to play each of your regional opponents 1 time during the year. That will equate to approximately 15 games. Half will be home, half will be away. So, let's say worst case scenario 8 games away for regional opponents. Therefore they would have approximately 6 more games to fill up their schedule. I would assume they could fill in those games with current B teams in their area and half will be home and half away. Or play in some tourneys which they already are doing.

My apologies that I know the east schedules much better than west: Wahpeton, Oak Grove, Valley City, Kindred, Four Winds/Minn., Dunseith, Turtle Mountain, Devils Lake, Hillsboro/CV, Grafton all participate in games/tournaments across the state during regular season in the past.

Also, much like current Class B day tourneys used across the state, there could be some very good mid-season A tourneys located in central locations to get a number of these games into their schedules. That would be something I would want to watch, FWIW.

[Flying Wallenda]

A majority of schools in the proposed middle class are currently traveling across the state to play against like competition. Also, all these schools are better equipped financially to do this. IMHO, travel has been used for years as an excuse. Every school's travel has increased and there is always the option to schedule more teams in your area if needed.

1) List the majority of schools of the 31 potential middle class schools who travel across the state
2) Explain "the option to schedule more teams in your area if needed"

Thanks

Qualifier: I am going to assume the schedules for the middle class teams will be to play each of your regional opponents 1 time during the year. That will equate to approximately 15 games. Half will be home, half will be away. So, let's say worst case scenario 8 games away for regional opponents. Therefore they would have approximately 6 more games to fill up their schedule. I would assume they could fill in those games with current B teams in their area and half will be home and half away. Or play in some tourneys which they already are doing.

My apologies that I know the east schedules much better than west: Wahpeton, Oak Grove, Valley City, Kindred, Four Winds/Minn., Dunseith, Turtle Mountain, Devils Lake, Hillsboro/CV, Grafton all participate in games/tournaments across the state during regular season in the past.

Thanks for the reply. IMO "A majority" is a vast overstatement. Wahp/VC/DL didn't travel all over the state to play a hypercompetitive schedule, they did because they were in the EDC and were required to. I believe Kindred likely did in both girls and boys, FW only in boys, Dunsieth - not sure, HCV only boys, and Grafton perhaps in both? - Most obviously not a majority. And when teams do this, it because they are fielding a good crew. When they don't, they'll stay close to home.

[classB4ever]

Thanks for the reply. IMO "A majority" is a vast overstatement. Wahp/VC/DL didn't travel all over the state to play a hypercompetitive schedule, they did because they were in the EDC and were required to. I believe Kindred likely did in both girls and boys, FW only in boys, Dunsieth - not sure, HCV only boys, and Grafton perhaps in both? - Most obviously not a majority. And when teams do this, it because they are fielding a good crew. When they don't, they'll stay close to home.

First of all, have always respected your opinion and having discussions with you. I will stand by the majority on the boy's side as have followed these teams for many years. But you most certainly may be correct on the girl's. By including the current Class A teams, was simply stating their travel would not increase much due to their current Class A travels.