Senior Athlete of the Year

[Sportsrube]

Congrats to the Senior Athletes of the Year:

Region 1: Joe Hurlburt - Enderlin
Region 2: Gannon Limke - HCV
Region 3: Scott Wagner - Ellendale
Region 4: Jayden Yankton - FW
Region 5: Jace Friesz - Flasher
Region 6: Zach Hendrickson - Our Reedemers
Region 7: Trey Brandt - Beulah
Region 8: Jace Nelson - Ray

I know Mr. Basketball has been discussed on another thread, but SAOY seems to be voted on a little differently.
Does anyone have a legit shot at this besides Hurlburt or Brandt? (They are all very good players or they wouldn't have won it for their Region.) I think Hurlburt wins this one, but I think Brandt comes in a close second.

[Bison-Vikes #1]

R4 - Yankton of FW/M has very legitimate shot. Undefeated team and great numbers.

[maddog1971]

Joe will get it hands down....but hard to argue against Yankton.

[WalkingStick]

That's a solid list of seniors.

Hurlburt, Yankton & Brandt are the clear favorites; Friesz likely as well if he hadn't gotten hurt. Nothing against the other names...just a solid year of athletes.

[Sportsrube]

I think the voting may be interesting. Coaches vote for the Senior Athlete and media votes for Mr. Basketball - there are often some real differences of opinion between those two sides. I can see Brandt beating out Hurlburt, not so sure on Yankton. I have seen Brandt and Hurlburt play this year, have not seen Yankton this year.

[hoophoophoop]

My vote would be Yankton

[packers21]

My vote would be Yankton

Hoop please share his numbers

[defensewinsgames]

The most compelling argument for Yankton is the undefeated record this year during which he beat Hurlburt and Enderlin, beat Brandt and Beulah (by 15), beat Trinity (by 20), beat Shiloh (by 20), beat HCV (by 31), beat Rugby (by 17), beat Oak Grove (by 20). And is headed to the state tournament while Brandt and Hurlburt aren't (yes I know it has a lot to do with the team around them). I'm not sure what the stats were when he went head to head with Hurlburt and Brandt so maybe that would change my opinion a little I guess. But based on that I would side with hoop....I would probably vote Yankton.

[maddog1971]

The most compelling argument for Yankton is the undefeated record this year during which he beat Hurlburt and Enderlin, beat Brandt and Beulah (by 15), beat Trinity (by 20), beat Shiloh (by 20), beat HCV (by 31), beat Rugby (by 17), beat Oak Grove (by 20). And is headed to the state tournament while Brandt and Hurlburt aren't (yes I know it has a lot to do with the team around them). I'm not sure what the stats were when he went head to head with Hurlburt and Brandt so maybe that would change my opinion a little I guess. But based on that I would side with hoop....I would probably vote Yankton.

Wow... I can not believe I never looked at it like that. You are dead on. I think Joe gets it still because of the press he gets. By the way... Yes it has a lot to do with the team around him but Joe had a great team around him..... So.... My Vote would be for Yankton as well.

[ndlionsfan]

The most compelling argument for Yankton is the undefeated record this year during which he beat Hurlburt and Enderlin, beat Brandt and Beulah (by 15), beat Trinity (by 20), beat Shiloh (by 20), beat HCV (by 31), beat Rugby (by 17), beat Oak Grove (by 20). And is headed to the state tournament while Brandt and Hurlburt aren't (yes I know it has a lot to do with the team around them). I'm not sure what the stats were when he went head to head with Hurlburt and Brandt so maybe that would change my opinion a little I guess. But based on that I would side with hoop....I would probably vote Yankton.

He also became the Indians all-time leading scorer in the regional tournament. There have been a lot of great scorers in that program before him as well.

[defensewinsgames]

The career stats aren't going to be like Joe's but because of the quality of the program and the success they have had it is difficult for him to start/be a main guy so young the way others on that list were. Just another point to think about.

[balla45]

I think compelling arguments can be made for Brandt, Hurlburt, and Yankton.

Brandt - 2000+ point scorer and multiple trips to the state tournament.
Hurlburt - 2000+ point scorer and ND all time leading rebounder. Lost to the defending state champion in region finals.
Yankton - best scorer on the only undefeated team in ND boys basketball this season.

[maddog1971]

Well....
Another way to look at it. You have other really great players in this state that have sacrifice their stat line for the good of the team. So I think how many victories the team has and the success of the team they play for should make a difference. Joe has made it to one regional final and has been playing for 6 years. Yes he has filled the stat sheet but his teams do not win in the games that count.


Brandt has been to state but they have not won it....

Yankton has had his teams at the top of the state each year and has played with some great players. For the last two years it would be hard to argue against him.

[packers21]

Well....
Another way to look at it. You have other really great players in this state that have sacrifice their stat line for the good of the team. So I think how many victories the team has and the success of the team they play for should make a difference. Joe has made it to one regional final and has been playing for 6 years. Yes he has filled the stat sheet but his teams do not win in the games that count.


Brandt has been to state but they have not won it....

Yankton has had his teams at the top of the state each year and has played with some great players. For the last two years it would be hard to argue against him.

None of them have won a state championship, if Joe played on Beulah's team this season he might of averaged 40. Your argument contradicts itself but that's not surprising.

[The Schwab]

Brandt has been playing varsity since he was an 8th grader. His career win loss record is: 111-19.

Brandt has been on teams that placed 5th and 6th. Yankton has been on a team that placed 4th. Both of them were on teams that made the 2020 state tournament that wasn't played.

Not sure the comparison that you are making. I'm assuming that you are trying to make the case that Yankton has had a more successful career from a team achievement standpoint. If that's what you are trying to say, you are 100 percent wrong.

Edited to add: I think I'm wrong on the point you were trying to make. After re-reading your post I'm assuming you were making it to cast a negative light on Joe. I truly hope you're not doing that.

[maddog1971]

what is FWM record for the same time frame... I know they lost twice last year but honestly they did not even try in the 3rd place game.

Who knows what Joe would have averaged(Brandt would have had him playing a post and dominating for sure) and to me it honestly doesn't matter to me when your team isn't winning and advancing. Brandt and Yankton have earned that.
Not trashing on Joe just saying I think that winning and moving on has to be part of it. and He has not done that. As I said I have watched many players do what their team needs to win. One night they have 35 and 1 assist and 4 rebounds. The next night they might have 6 points 8 assists and 14 boards.... Or they forget even shooting for the whole game and play shut down defense and rebound. Those players get no love and they should.

[The Schwab]

106- 17

[balla45]

what is FWM record for the same time frame... I know they lost twice last year but honestly they did not even try in the 3rd place game.

Who knows what Joe would have averaged(Brandt would have had him playing a post and dominating for sure) and to me it honestly doesn't matter to me when your team isn't winning and advancing. Brandt and Yankton have earned that.
Not trashing on Joe just saying I think that winning and moving on has to be part of it. and He has not done that. As I said I have watched many players do what their team needs to win. One night they have 35 and 1 assist and 4 rebounds. The next night they might have 6 points 8 assists and 14 boards.... Or they forget even shooting for the whole game and play shut down defense and rebound. Those players get no love and they should.

I am trying to understand your thought process.

Joe Hurlburt should not win Senior Athlete of the Year because his team did not make state. Is that essentially what you are posting here in a roundabout way?

Are you posting that only Jayden Yankton should be eligible for the award because the other 7 regional winners all did not make state?

[balla45]

Well....
Another way to look at it. You have other really great players in this state that have sacrifice their stat line for the good of the team. So I think how many victories the team has and the success of the team they play for should make a difference. Joe has made it to one regional final and has been playing for 6 years. Yes he has filled the stat sheet but his teams do not win in the games that count.


Brandt has been to state but they have not won it....

Yankton has had his teams at the top of the state each year and has played with some great players. For the last two years it would be hard to argue against him.

Who are these really great players in this state that sacrifice their stat line for the good of the team? Are these great players or above average and good players?

Someone feel free to correct me if I am wrong somewhere.

2022 Champions - TBD
2021 Champions - Kindred
2020 Champions - COVID
2019 Champions - HCV - Gannon Limke was not on the roster as a freshman
2018 Champions - HCV - Gannon Limke was not on the roster as an 8th grader.

At this moment in time, and when the votes will be due, no one eligible to win Senior Athlete of the Year has a state championship.

I am too busy to go find it, but I would be intrigued to see Enderlin's W/L record over the time period used for Four Winds with Yankton and Beulah with Brandt. Additionally, for anyone that has time. Please post the W/L record over the 5 year time period before Yankton was a part of Four Winds and Brandt was a part of Beulah. Then do the same for Hurlburt. Is it possible that those schools have better basketball programs in general and will for that reason be more successful almost automatically due to program success?

Enderlin also won the Region 1 regular season the past 2 seasons. It is accurate that Enderlin did not win the game to make state. I tend to avoid overvaluing any 1 game out of a 20+ game sample size. I may be in the minority in doing that.

This argument is so asinine. If Hurlburt plays at Shiloh he makes state 4 or more times. Who cares? I did not think Senior Athlete of the Year is a team award.

Finally, the easy argument against really anyone, for me at least, is quite simple. Joe Hurlburt is a lot better at basketball than anyone else that is up for the award, and there are some pretty impressive talents up for the award. I am not intending to take a shot at anyone else either.


Logan Nissley is still better today and had a better individual season than "insert ND Class A girls basketball player" is today. Century girls did lose to Minot girls in a game 3 days ago. There is a reason she won Gatorade again.

Joe Hurlburt is still better today and had a better individual season than "insert ND Class B boys basketball player" is today. Enderlin boys did lose to Kindred boys in a game 5 days ago. I am sure Joe will win Gatorade again.

[classB4ever]

Finally, the easy argument against really anyone, for me at least, is quite simple. Joe Hurlburt is a lot better at basketball than anyone else that is up for the award, and there are some pretty impressive talents up for the award. I am not intending to take a shot at anyone else either.

I can agree or understand your reasoning for your entire post, except this portion. Joe's achievements are remarkable and he certainly is deserving of any awards moving forward. With that said, his physical stature is a very important part of his accomplishments. Saying he is "a lot better at basketball than anyone else that is up for the award" is where I get stuck and will continue to debate.

[balla45]

Finally, the easy argument against really anyone, for me at least, is quite simple. Joe Hurlburt is a lot better at basketball than anyone else that is up for the award, and there are some pretty impressive talents up for the award. I am not intending to take a shot at anyone else either.

I can agree or understand your reasoning for your entire post, except this portion. Joe's achievements are remarkable and he certainly is deserving of any awards moving forward. With that said, his physical stature is a very important part of his accomplishments. Saying he is "a lot better at basketball than anyone else that is up for the award" is where I get stuck and will continue to debate.

It does not matter if he is only good because he is 6'11" and has a better basketball body than everyone else does. He still has that body and no one else does. I do not think he is only good because he is 6'11", but if someone does feel that way, it is irrelevant. Size matters in basketball. Bryer Kaczynski, who I am a fan of by the way, plays in the same region and is 6'11" in socks with a 7'2" wingspan. He averaged 12.3 points, 8.9 rebounds, and 2 blocks this season.

Also, food for thought. There are several other 6'9"+ players in ND now and there obviously have been dozens over the course of ND history. No one has the statistical accomplishments that he has, if you only want to compare him to tall people.

In Class A, Ryan Erikson was the rebound leader. He is 6'10". I have heard several people state, well he should do that, he is 6'10". Well, he still did it.


Would Trey Brandt or Jayden Yankton be better than Joe Hurlburt if either of them had a comparable body? I am not sure, because they do not play in a 6'11" body. Whether it is fair or unfair, it just is reality.

Joe Hurlburt is a better mid range, free throw, and 3 point shooter than Shaquille O'Neal was in his prime. Shaquille O'Neal during his career is still better at basketball than Joe Hurlburt. Even if this is because he has a body that is better built for basketball, even if it because he won the genetic lottery, whatever reasoning you want to come up with, Shaquille O'Neal still is better than Joe Hurlburt.

[classB4ever]

It does not matter if he is only good because he is 6'11" and has a better basketball body than everyone else does. He still has that body and no one else does. I do not think he is only good because he is 6'11", but if someone does feel that way, it is irrelevant. Size matters in basketball. Bryer Kaczynski, who I am a fan of by the way, plays in the same region and is 6'11" in socks with a 7'2" wingspan. He averaged 12.3 points, 8.9 rebounds, and 2 blocks this season.

Also, food for thought. There are several other 6'9"+ players in ND now and there obviously have been dozens over the course of ND history. No one has the statistical accomplishments that he has, if you only want to compare him to tall people.

In Class A, Ryan Erikson was the rebound leader. He is 6'10". I have heard several people state, well he should do that, he is 6'10". Well, he still did it.


Would Trey Brandt or Jayden Yankton be better than Joe Hurlburt if either of them had a comparable body? I am not sure, because they do not play in a 6'11" body. Whether it is fair or unfair, it just is reality.

I was only referring to your one statement. Being better at basketball can mean many things: Who is the better ball handler? Who is the better playmaker? Who is the better defender? Who is the better rebounder? Who is the better shooter? Who is the better floor general? Who brings the most to their team?

You bring up many comparisons (other players) to make your point. I am only comparing the names that are on these lists. I understand your reasoning completely, but it doesn't mean that I agree with them. Every time I decide to get involved with this debate, there is a qualifier: ND Class B basketball. That's all I use for my thought process and what this topic is about.

I am not against Joe winning this award and quite frankly he may very well deserve it. But there is room for debate because there are other talented players deserving to be mentioned.

Am going to leave this debate but want to ask 1 question: What position do you feel Joe played this year on his high school team? Honest question. Your answer will help me with further thoughts on this subject. You get the last words.

[balla45]

I think the best basketball player is the player who can most impact winning at the high level. I think that player is Joe Hurlburt. I can explain that in significant detail if anyone would like.

I also think that basketball has evolved. Gone are the days of teams playing a traditional PG, SG, SF, PF, and C.

I read an article a few years ago that really stuck with me. It broke down the positions in basketball to the following.

Primary scorer.
Primary facilitator.
3 point specialist.
Defensive specialist.
Mobile big.
Immobile big.

I would classify him as a mobile big. Closest thing in the generic breakdown of positions would be Small Forward. I go with Small Forward as it is the most versatile position in basketball and he showed a lot of versatility this season, leading his team in all 5 major counting stats.

[ndlionsfan]

I think the best basketball player is the player who can most impact winning at the high level. I think that player is Joe Hurlburt. I can explain that in significant detail if anyone would like.

The way I look at SPOY and Mr. Bball is who was the best player who impacted winning this season with some respect to their entire high school career. I don't care what their potential is on the next level. In my opinion, Yankton or Brandt are SPOY this season. Hurlburt is also in consideration as Enderlin has been very successful over the course of this season and his career. However, not leading his team over the hump hurts him. Who's going to go on and have the most successful college career? Who knows, probably Joe but just going to the DI level doesn't guarantee that. I look at what Mason Walters is doing at UJ and that is pretty impressive and definitely successful. Who cares if it is at the NAIA level.

[maddog1971]

Ok....

If you are starting a team from Scratch to win State this year.... who is the number one player you will draft?

Also is Senior athlete just about how they perform on the court?
Is he about how good of role model he is on and off the court?
Is it how good they are in the class room? GPA?
Is it how good of college he got into?
Is it how much press he gets?
Is it how many dunks he gets per game?