Updated 3 class system

[The Schwab]

Multipliers:
#1- (Free and Reduced Lunch % of 10 or less) multiply by 1.25
#2- (Free and Reduced Lunch % of 90 or more) multiply by .75
#3- (3 or more schools form the co-op) multiply by .75
Only one multiplier used per school

Class AA (22 Teams): 400 and up
West: (11)
Minot- 2218
Bismarck- 1540
Williston- 1464
Bismarck Century- 1462
Bismarck Legacy- 1420
Mandan- 1262
Dickinson- 1128
Jamestown- 856
Watford City- 618
Turtle Mountain- 447- #2
Bismarck St. Mary's- 442.5 #1

East: (11)
West Fargo Sheyenne- 1530
West Fargo- 1496
Fargo Davies- 1418
Grand Forks Central- 1266
Fargo North- 1224
GF Red River- 1168
Fargo South- 950
Devils Lake- 582
Horace- 504
Fargo Shanley- 432.5 #1
Wahpeton- 428

Class A: (32 Teams) Enrollment of 150-399
West: (16)
DLB- 244
Bottineau- 238
New Town- 235.5 #2
Stanley- 226
Bismarck Shiloh- 210 #1
Standing Rock- 207 #2
Heart River- 204
Dunseith- 204 #2
Beulah- 200
Dickinson Trinity- 197.5 #1
Rugby- 192
Killdeer- 192
South Prairie- 174
Nedrose- 174
Hazen- 170
Bowman County- 158

East: (16)
Valley City- 350
Central Cass- 332
Kindred- 286
Grafton- 268
Fargo Oak Grove- 252.5 #1
Thompson- 232.5 #1
Four Winds Minnewaukan- 228 #2
HCV- 222
Lisbon- 212
Northern Cass- 210
MPCG/FS- 202
Oakes- 192
Harvey/WC- 186
PRFL- 180
Langdon- 162
Carrington- 152

Class B: (74 teams) 149 and under

North West: 15
Minot Ryan- 141.25 #1
Tioga- 122
Divide County- 116
Trenton- 116
Ray- 108
MLS- 104
Alexander- 100
Parshall- 90
Kenmare- 86
Powers Lake- 68
Williston Trinity Christian- 65 #1
White Shield- 63 #2
Burke County/Bowbells- 56
Plaza- 46
Berthold- 44

Central: 15
Surrey- 146
Velva- 134
GCC/Midkota- 130
TGU- 120
Garrison- 114
MPB- 106
Our Reedemers- 103.75 #1
Kidder County- 98
Rolla- 84
BCN- 82
Glenburn- 76
Westhope Newburg- 54
Rolette- 52
Max- 50
Drake Anamoose- 40


North East: 16
Hatton/Northwood- 142
Midway/Minto- 140
Cavalier- 136
St. John- 136
Larimore- 132
New Rockford/Sheyenne- 118
Drayton Valley Edinburg- 114
North Star- 108
North Border- 104
Dakota Prairie- 82
Benson County- 74
Lakota- 60
Warwick- 58.5 #2

South West: 14
Central McClean- 130
Wilton-Wing- 122
New Salem- 118
Hettinger-Scranton- 114
Glen Ullin/Hebron- 106
Beach- 102
Mott Regent/GC- 100
Center Stanton- 94
Flasher- 90
Richardton Taylor- 88
New England- 78
Washburn- 74
Mandaree- 55.5 #2
Solen- 45 #2

South East: 14
Sargent County-127.5 #3
Fairmount/CT/R- 126 #3
EKM- 124.5 #3
Wyndmere/Lidgerwood- 120
South Border- 120
Linton HMB- 118
LaMoure/LM- 108
Enderlin- 106
Napoleon GS- 98
Ellendale- 76
Richland- 72
Hankinson- 68
Strasburg Zeeland- 58
Maple River- 53

[The Schwab]

To answer some questions/concerns that I know people will have:

To get Minot Ryan to the middle class a 1.4 or 1.5 multiplier would need to be used, to do that on the top end there would need to be a .6 or .5 multiplier on the bottom which could potentially open the doors for some pretty large schools to end up in the bottom class. Those schools don't traditionally struggle with numbers for basketball so I don't know if that would be ideal. I think if it were a 1.4/.6 multiplier than it would look good for a few years, but it probably wouldn't last with declining enrollments.

There is no equitable way to get Minot Our Reedemers to the middle class, they have an enrollment close to 70 students.

Tournament structure for class A IMO should be a super regional. Seed them 1-16 in each region. Winner of those games (8 teams from each east and west) would be seeded 1-16 and play the sweet 16 format that SD uses. Those 8 winners would play in the state tournament.

Class B structure. Play each region in a super region format. Semi Finalists would advance to championship and 3rd/4th. Top 3 from each region would go. Could either give the overall highest RPI rated region champ a bye. Or give the highest RPI 4th seed the last spot in the sweet 16. Seed them 1-16 based on RPI and play it like SD's sweet 16. 8 winners go to state.

[maddog1971]

I am all for it but Ryan needs to be A..... or else it makes no sense to make any changes.

[defensewinsgames]

I have raised this concern before with the sheyenne plan. This version looks the same to me from the standpoint of competive balance. Look at that A division and there is 3 or 4 teams that won't have a chance to compete just like the current plan so for that reason I would say not a significant improvement because it doesn't solve that piece of the puzzle IMO. I don't think a plan that moves up PRFL and MayPort and Carrington but leaves down Bishop Ryan is acceptable. But that's my two cents.

[The Schwab]

It's obvious comparing my numbers and the plan shared on ND Scores site that some of these enrollment numbers are way off. DPI has MPCG FS at 160 ish students and the football plan has them at 102 boys. So I'm not sure what schools enrollment numbers actually are. I do feel that 150 to 400 is a good middle class.

If someone can find a way that is equitable and won't open up a lawsuit possibility I'd definitely like to hear ideas! I want to find a 3 class plan that works.

I don't think we can say a plan doesn't fix things when 4 teams total might not have a chance to compete. In most regions we have 4 teams that have no chance to compete currently.

[Flip]

I am all for it but Ryan needs to be A..... or else it makes no sense to make any changes.

Every small school in regions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 disagree. (maybe not 6)

[Thundersnow]

Your Class AA is too big. Devils Lake, Wahpeton, Turtle Mountain and Watford City all belong in a middle class. The West Fargo schools do not belong in the same class as Wahpeton. Turtle Mountain does not belong in the same class as Minot and Bismarck, just like Hankinson and Max don't belong in the same class as Central Cass and Kindred.

[maddog1971]

I am all for it but Ryan needs to be A..... or else it makes no sense to make any changes.

Every small school in regions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 disagree. (maybe not 6)

So Ryan winning state every year makes sense to you? Well it does not to me. By the way someone said teams like Hankinson does not belong in the same class as Kindred and Central Cass.... well they might disagree.... It was not to long ago they where kicking those schools butts. I was in their gym and they have the walls covered in banners.

[The Schwab]

I am all for it but Ryan needs to be A..... or else it makes no sense to make any changes.

Every small school in regions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 disagree. (maybe not 6)

So Ryan winning state every year makes sense to you? Well it does not to me. By the way someone said teams like Hankinson does not belong in the same class as Kindred and Central Cass.... well they might disagree.... It was not to long ago they where kicking those schools butts. I was in their gym and they have the walls covered in banners.

What has Hankinsons enrollment done since those titles? What have the enrollments of Kindred and Central Cass done? The landscape in ND schools is ever changing, so should our ways of thinking

[Thundersnow]

Amen. And the beauty of a 3-class system is that Hankinson can still compete against Central Cass and Kindred if they want to schedule them. North Shore-Plaza can continue to play against New Town and Stanley, North Border can still play against Thompson and Grafton. People talk about the biggest schools getting schedule flexibility, but the truth is everyone gets schedule flexibility with a 3-class system. A QRF-type ranking system would reward teams for scheduling tougher competition, but ultimately there would be closer games across the board. My point of saying that Hankinson doesn't belong in the same class as Kindred does not mean they should never ever play against them.

[The Schwab]

Your Class AA is too big. Devils Lake, Wahpeton, Turtle Mountain and Watford City all belong in a middle class. The West Fargo schools do not belong in the same class as Wahpeton. Turtle Mountain does not belong in the same class as Minot and Bismarck, just like Hankinson and Max don't belong in the same class as Central Cass and Kindred.

I could get behind Wahpeton being in the middle class. The other schools have enrollments of around 600. 600 to 150 is a 4 to 1 ratio. If we throw out Minot as the outlier (they have 700 more students than any school in the state) the ratio of the top class of public schools if we take out Wahpeton would be 3 to 1. Which is a much easier sell to me.

I am passionate about the 3 class system for the smaller schools, those are the schools that need the 3 class system the most.

All of the schools you mentioned have made the state tournament in class A since 2015 (both boys and girls with the exception of Watford Boys).

[packers21]

Amen. And the beauty of a 3-class system is that Hankinson can still compete against Central Cass and Kindred if they want to schedule them. North Shore-Plaza can continue to play against New Town and Stanley, North Border can still play against Thompson and Grafton. People talk about the biggest schools getting schedule flexibility, but the truth is everyone gets schedule flexibility with a 3-class system. A QRF-type ranking system would reward teams for scheduling tougher competition, but ultimately there would be closer games across the board. My point of saying that Hankinson doesn't belong in the same class as Kindred does not mean they should never ever play against them.

Actually the flexibility part isn't true at all for A in a lot of these plans they get less.

[The Schwab]

Amen. And the beauty of a 3-class system is that Hankinson can still compete against Central Cass and Kindred if they want to schedule them. North Shore-Plaza can continue to play against New Town and Stanley, North Border can still play against Thompson and Grafton. People talk about the biggest schools getting schedule flexibility, but the truth is everyone gets schedule flexibility with a 3-class system. A QRF-type ranking system would reward teams for scheduling tougher competition, but ultimately there would be closer games across the board. My point of saying that Hankinson doesn't belong in the same class as Kindred does not mean they should never ever play against them.

Actually the flexibility part isn't true at all for A in a lot of these plans they get less.

One of the big reasons I want the QRF as a part of any 3 class plan is we would get rid of schedule restrictions on having to play every team in your region/district. I don't know if I would be behind any 3 class system that doesn't give scheduling flexibility. The added "bonus point" features would reward smaller class teams for scheduling middle class teams and the middle class teams wouldn't be punished for scheduling good, lower class teams.

[Flip]

I am all for it but Ryan needs to be A..... or else it makes no sense to make any changes.

Every small school in regions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 disagree. (maybe not 6)

So Ryan winning state every year makes sense to you? Well it does not to me.

They wouldn't win state every year and small schools around the state don't care specifically about Ryan. Hankinson isn't voting down a 3 class system just because Ryan is in the middle class.

[packers21]

I am all for it but Ryan needs to be A..... or else it makes no sense to make any changes.

Every small school in regions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 disagree. (maybe not 6)

So Ryan winning state every year makes sense to you? Well it does not to me.

They wouldn't win state every year and small schools around the state don't care specifically about Ryan. Hankinson isn't voting down a 3 class system just because Ryan is in the middle class.

They should, I personally think Ryan would dominate the smallest division if they were allowed to stay. The plan does a good job of getting rid of the other privates and bigger B's but Ryan would become a big problem IMO. Wasn't to long ago they dominated GBB and the BBB has always been good, ppl forget quickly.

[BelfieldBantams]

I am all for it but Ryan needs to be A..... or else it makes no sense to make any changes.

Every small school in regions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 disagree. (maybe not 6)

I'll just look at Region 1 for now:

Boys side 2 out of 3 of Oak Grove, Kindred, and Central Cass have made the semi's 15 out of the last 20 years. 5 of those 15 all 3 made it. Not a lot of spots left for everyone else.

Girls side 2 out of the same 3, have made the semi's 11 out of 12 years. Mostly Kindred and CC, but Oak Grove had a nice handful of appearances too. Kindred and CC were 8 of those 11.

[WalkingStick]

I am all for it but Ryan needs to be A..... or else it makes no sense to make any changes.

Every small school in regions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 disagree. (maybe not 6)

I'll just look at Region 1 for now:

Boys side 2 out of 3 of Oak Grove, Kindred, and Central Cass have made the semi's 15 out of the last 20 years. 5 of those 15 all 3 made it. Not a lot of spots left for everyone else.

Girls side 2 out of the same 3, have made the semi's 11 out of 12 years. Mostly Kindred and CC, but Oak Grove had a nice handful of appearances too. Kindred and CC were 8 of those 11.

Kindred, Oak Grove, Central Cass, Northern Cass & Lisbon would be Middle Class teams out of Region 1 alone.

[maddog1971]

I am all for it but Ryan needs to be A..... or else it makes no sense to make any changes.

Every small school in regions 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, and 7 disagree. (maybe not 6)

I'll just look at Region 1 for now:

Boys side 2 out of 3 of Oak Grove, Kindred, and Central Cass have made the semi's 15 out of the last 20 years. 5 of those 15 all 3 made it. Not a lot of spots left for everyone else.

Girls side 2 out of the same 3, have made the semi's 11 out of 12 years. Mostly Kindred and CC, but Oak Grove had a nice handful of appearances too. Kindred and CC were 8 of those 11.

Yep.... you are correct. Those 3 are at the top 5 of the region almost every year. BUT they have not been in state a whole lot except OG.

[WalkingStick]

Region 1 State Representatives (1998-1999 to Current)
Year: Boys - Girls
2022: TBD - Kindred
2021: Kindred - Central Cass
2020: Richland - Central Cass
2019: Richland - Kindred
2018: Wyndmere-Lidgerwood - Kindred
2017: Oak Grove - Kindred
2016: Northern Cass - Farimount/CT
2015: Oak Grove - Kindred
2014: Oak Grove - Central Cass
2013: Milnor - Central Cass
2012: Central Cass - Kindred
2011: Oak Grove - Central Cass
2010: Oak Grove - Central Cass
2009: North Sargent - Hankinson
2008: Lisbon - Hankinson
2007: Hankinson - Kindred
2006: Richland - Kindred
2005: Central Cass - Northern Cass
2004: Milnor - Northern Cass
2003: Kindred - Northern Cass
2001-2002: Kindred - Kindred
2000-2001: Oak Grove - Kindred
1999-2000: Oak Grove - Oak Grove
1998-1999: Lisbon - Lisbon

GBB
Small schools going in girls is nearly unheard of anymore…FCT once and Hankinson twice…otherwise mostly Kindred (10), CC (6) & NC (3)…Lisbon & OG once but in the 2000s

BBB
Small schools have made it a little more in BBB (Richland 3 times, Milnor twice)
OG has made it 7 times, Kindred 3 times, CC/NC/Lisbon each twice

[WalkingStick]

Amen. And the beauty of a 3-class system is that Hankinson can still compete against Central Cass and Kindred if they want to schedule them. North Shore-Plaza can continue to play against New Town and Stanley, North Border can still play against Thompson and Grafton. People talk about the biggest schools getting schedule flexibility, but the truth is everyone gets schedule flexibility with a 3-class system. A QRF-type ranking system would reward teams for scheduling tougher competition, but ultimately there would be closer games across the board. My point of saying that Hankinson doesn't belong in the same class as Kindred does not mean they should never ever play against them.

Actually the flexibility part isn't true at all for A in a lot of these plans they get less.

In mine, I’d suggest only playing your region opponents once…or you could do as R2 does right now and play once for two points or twice with each game counting as one point…therefore, 7 or 8 region games (minimum) for the middle class and then schedule who you want.

I envision some cross region shootouts being possible…the in-season tourneys could continue (CNDC, Roughrider, etc.) to open some cross class games.