2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

[balla45]

I believe Wagner from Ellendale should also be considered for one of the B Mr. BB finalists. I agree that he is the best post player in the state.

Recently, there was a clip on Midco Sports about Wagner and his unfortunate car accident from last summer. They weren't even sure he'd be back for his Senior year but he has defied all odds. An excellent story about a wonderful kid with a great work ethic.

I could support this. Team is undefeated and he is a BIG reason why.

I think it just depends on how the voters want to do it.

If it is just the players with a real chance to win, it can probably just be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt.

If it is the players who have earned the honor to be called a candidate, I like the following.

Brandt
Eaglestaff
Hurlburt
Hurlburt
Nhial
Wagner
Yankton

I appreciate the discussion.

[Sportsrube]

I think one of the things that hurts Wagner is that Region 3 is not in a major media market. There are no daily newspapers in Region 3 (Though the Jamestown Sun covers part of the Region) and there is no TV or large radio station in Region 3. That makes it hard for Region 3 players to get the press that other Regions get. You don't see Region 3 teams on the highlight reel of the nightly sports, you don't see players names in the paper once or twice a week, etc..... Wagner is a very good true post player. Is he as good a player as Hurlburt or Eaglestaff - no. But I do think he will be the District 5 POY and the Region 3 POY and that may help him get nominated for Mr. BB.

[balla45]

I think one of the things that hurts Wagner is that Region 3 is not in a major media market. There are no daily newspapers in Region 3 (Though the Jamestown Sun covers part of the Region) and there is no TV or large radio station in Region 3. That makes it hard for Region 3 players to get the press that other Regions get. You don't see Region 3 teams on the highlight reel of the nightly sports, you don't see players names in the paper once or twice a week, etc..... Wagner is a very good true post player. Is he as good a player as Hurlburt or Eaglestaff - no. But I do think he will be the District 5 POY and the Region 3 POY and that may help him get nominated for Mr. BB.

Agreed with all. I do think it helps that he is a multi year All State player who has played in the state tournament.

[WalkingStick]

I think one of the things that hurts Wagner is that Region 3 is not in a major media market. There are no daily newspapers in Region 3 (Though the Jamestown Sun covers part of the Region) and there is no TV or large radio station in Region 3. That makes it hard for Region 3 players to get the press that other Regions get. You don't see Region 3 teams on the highlight reel of the nightly sports, you don't see players names in the paper once or twice a week, etc..... Wagner is a very good true post player. Is he as good a player as Hurlburt or Eaglestaff - no. But I do think he will be the District 5 POY and the Region 3 POY and that may help him get nominated for Mr. BB.

Doesn't BEK sports cover Region 3, some games and then the tournaments??

[BasketballMind]

I believe Wagner from Ellendale should also be considered for one of the B Mr. BB finalists. I agree that he is the best post player in the state.

Recently, there was a clip on Midco Sports about Wagner and his unfortunate car accident from last summer. They weren't even sure he'd be back for his Senior year but he has defied all odds. An excellent story about a wonderful kid with a great work ethic.

I could support this. Team is undefeated and he is a BIG reason why.

I think it just depends on how the voters want to do it.

If it is just the players with a real chance to win, it can probably just be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt.

If it is the players who have earned the honor to be called a candidate, I like the following.

Brandt
Eaglestaff
Hurlburt
Hurlburt
Nhial
Wagner
Yankton

I appreciate the discussion.

If ND allowed underclassmen to be Mr. Basketball finalists I'd put Deng Deng on this list over Yankton.

[defensewinsgames]

I would say the favorites have to be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt just because of the name recognition, career stats, and going division 1. I do think there are others who have compelling cases based on other factors but struggle to see great arguments for why they should be given the nod over those two. My opinion is it is a two horse race that Hurlburt wins if he makes the state tournament.

[hoophoophoop]

I would say the favorites have to be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt just because of the name recognition, career stats, and going division 1. I do think there are others who have compelling cases based on other factors but struggle to see great arguments for why they should be given the nod over those two. My opinion is it is a two horse race that Hurlburt wins if he makes the state tournament.

Its Eaglestaff and its not even close

[defensewinsgames]

I think based on the statistics, the fact that he is going to a PAC 12 school, and just the attention he has gotten it is going going to be very close; even if you truly believe Eaglestaff is better. Both are great players I'm not saying Hurlburt is better even. I'm just saying it is definitely close. Super disagree with it not being close.

[The Schwab]

I would say the favorites have to be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt just because of the name recognition, career stats, and going division 1. I do think there are others who have compelling cases based on other factors but struggle to see great arguments for why they should be given the nod over those two. My opinion is it is a two horse race that Hurlburt wins if he makes the state tournament.

Its Eaglestaff and its not even close

2000+ points, state rebounding record and signed to a PAC-12 school makes it pretty darn close

[balla45]

I would say the favorites have to be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt just because of the name recognition, career stats, and going division 1. I do think there are others who have compelling cases based on other factors but struggle to see great arguments for why they should be given the nod over those two. My opinion is it is a two horse race that Hurlburt wins if he makes the state tournament.

Its Eaglestaff and its not even close

2000+ points, state rebounding record and signed to a PAC-12 school makes it pretty darn close

Should it be close though? Big fans of both, obviously, but to me, one of these players is better than the other.

[The Schwab]

I would say the favorites have to be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt just because of the name recognition, career stats, and going division 1. I do think there are others who have compelling cases based on other factors but struggle to see great arguments for why they should be given the nod over those two. My opinion is it is a two horse race that Hurlburt wins if he makes the state tournament.

Its Eaglestaff and its not even close

2000+ points, state rebounding record and signed to a PAC-12 school makes it pretty darn close

Should it be close though? Big fans of both, obviously, but to me, 1 of these things is more impressive than the other.

In my mind it's not close. I think Joe should win the award hands down. However, I do think the vote will be close.

[balla45]

I would say the favorites have to be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt just because of the name recognition, career stats, and going division 1. I do think there are others who have compelling cases based on other factors but struggle to see great arguments for why they should be given the nod over those two. My opinion is it is a two horse race that Hurlburt wins if he makes the state tournament.

Its Eaglestaff and its not even close

2000+ points, state rebounding record and signed to a PAC-12 school makes it pretty darn close

Should it be close though? Big fans of both, obviously, but to me, 1 of these things is more impressive than the other.

In my mind it's not close. I think Joe should win the award hands down. However, I do think the vote will be close.

I agree with you.

I am happy to justify exactly why if anyone responds to this post indicating that I am attempting to be an agent for one of the players.

[bingobangobongo]

I would say the favorites have to be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt just because of the name recognition, career stats, and going division 1. I do think there are others who have compelling cases based on other factors but struggle to see great arguments for why they should be given the nod over those two. My opinion is it is a two horse race that Hurlburt wins if he makes the state tournament.

Its Eaglestaff and its not even close

2000+ points, state rebounding record and signed to a PAC-12 school makes it pretty darn close

Should it be close though? Big fans of both, obviously, but to me, 1 of these things is more impressive than the other.

In my mind it's not close. I think Joe should win the award hands down. However, I do think the vote will be close.

I agree with you.

I am happy to justify exactly why if anyone responds to this post indicating that I am attempting to be an agent for one of the players.

I'll bite on that hook. You are attempting to be an agent for Joe (i just want to hear why you think it is not close).

[EHS1998]

Haven't posted here in a LONG time but have to say I am super pumped to see Scott Wagner's name mentioned as a candidate.

I realize it is likely a 2 horse race as has been discuss at length, but Scott has truly had an exceptional career and truth be told, is a better person than he is a player. He is very deserving of being a Mr Basketball finalist, I believe it would make him Ellendale's first.

[balla45]

I would say the favorites have to be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt just because of the name recognition, career stats, and going division 1. I do think there are others who have compelling cases based on other factors but struggle to see great arguments for why they should be given the nod over those two. My opinion is it is a two horse race that Hurlburt wins if he makes the state tournament.

Its Eaglestaff and its not even close

2000+ points, state rebounding record and signed to a PAC-12 school makes it pretty darn close

Should it be close though? Big fans of both, obviously, but to me, 1 of these things is more impressive than the other.

In my mind it's not close. I think Joe should win the award hands down. However, I do think the vote will be close.

I agree with you.

I am happy to justify exactly why if anyone responds to this post indicating that I am attempting to be an agent for one of the players.

I'll bite on that hook. You are attempting to be an agent for Joe (i just want to hear why you think it is not close).

I think it will be close because the 2 players dominate the competition as any North Dakota skill player who has signed to play Division 1 basketball always does. As a reference, Mason Klabo, a freshman with an NDSU offer, leads the EDC in scoring, assists, and steals. Due to this reality, I think the vote will be close. I have said this on numerous occasions, but for the most part, these guys are playing against people who have no chance of guarding them so they can do whatever they want. If Mason Klabo were a senior and committed to NDSU, an argument could be made for him to be Class A Senior Athlete of the Year. If any of the people reading this are from the Fargo area, do any of you think Mason Klabo today is better than Joseph Hurlburt today?

The reason that I do not think it is close in terms of ability is quite simple. One of these players had high major offers to choose from. One of these players did not. They also played on the same club basketball team, so their opportunities to be seen were the same. I choose to trust the opinions of individuals making millions of dollars coaching basketball over what us "commoners" think. The big factor that I think people miss out on is that if you put Kobe Bryant and Derek Fisher in to North Dakota basketball in different classes and they never played each other, it would be quite similar. You have people who are better than the people they are playing against basically doing what they want. I will add that I do not think Hurlburt is as good as Bryant, before that gets misconstrued.

I feel that Eaglestaff is the same level as Jacobson, Moody, Skunberg, etc. I think he is a bit better than Jordan Allard and Jordan May were in high school, who both signed at UND. I am not sold that he is better offensively than May, but is way better defensively. May was very special offensively. Jordan May as a senior in high school averaged 24, 5, and 4, and won a state title as a sophomore where he was their second best player in the state tournament. Jordan Allard averaged 17, 10, and 7 as a senior and lost in the state title his senior year. Austin Dufault played in 0 state tournaments, averaged 26 and 12, and signed at Colorado, and received 13 of the 17 first place votes that season.

Again, Austin Dufault, who went high major, and played in 0 state tournaments, without a significantly better stat line, won in a landslide. If we compare Hurlburt and Dufault, Hurlburt has had a significantly more impressive high school career.

Did we lose common sense just because people do not like Hurlburt/Kraft/Enderlin for whatever reason?

[The Schwab]

I think on this site the amount of posters from region 1 outnumber the posters from all of the other regions combined. IMO that is what leads to the amount of "hate" that anyone associated with Enderlin receives.

[bingobangobongo]

I would say the favorites have to be Eaglestaff and Hurlburt just because of the name recognition, career stats, and going division 1. I do think there are others who have compelling cases based on other factors but struggle to see great arguments for why they should be given the nod over those two. My opinion is it is a two horse race that Hurlburt wins if he makes the state tournament.

Its Eaglestaff and its not even close

2000+ points, state rebounding record and signed to a PAC-12 school makes it pretty darn close

Should it be close though? Big fans of both, obviously, but to me, 1 of these things is more impressive than the other.

In my mind it's not close. I think Joe should win the award hands down. However, I do think the vote will be close.

I agree with you.

I am happy to justify exactly why if anyone responds to this post indicating that I am attempting to be an agent for one of the players.

I'll bite on that hook. You are attempting to be an agent for Joe (i just want to hear why you think it is not close).

I think it will be close because the 2 players dominate the competition as any North Dakota skill player who has signed to play Division 1 basketball always does. As a reference, Mason Klabo, a freshman with an NDSU offer, leads the EDC in scoring, assists, and steals. Due to this reality, I think the vote will be close. I have said this on numerous occasions, but for the most part, these guys are playing against people who have no chance of guarding them so they can do whatever they want. If Mason Klabo were a senior and committed to NDSU, an argument could be made for him to be Class A Senior Athlete of the Year. If any of the people reading this are from the Fargo area, do any of you think Mason Klabo today is better than Joseph Hurlburt today?

The reason that I do not think it is close in terms of ability is quite simple. One of these players had high major offers to choose from. One of these players did not. They also played on the same club basketball team, so their opportunities to be seen were the same. I choose to trust the opinions of individuals making millions of dollars coaching basketball over what us "commoners" think. The big factor that I think people miss out on is that if you put Kobe Bryant and Derek Fisher in to North Dakota basketball in different classes and they never played each other, it would be quite similar. You have people who are better than the people they are playing against basically doing what they want. I will add that I do not think Hurlburt is as good as Bryant, before that gets misconstrued.

I feel that Eaglestaff is the same level as Jacobson, Moody, Skunberg, etc. I think he is a bit better than Jordan Allard and Jordan May were in high school, who both signed at UND. I am not sold that he is better offensively than May, but is way better defensively. May was very special offensively. Jordan May as a senior in high school averaged 24, 5, and 4, and won a state title as a sophomore where he was their second best player in the state tournament. Jordan Allard averaged 17, 10, and 7 as a senior and lost in the state title his senior year. Austin Dufault played in 0 state tournaments, averaged 26 and 12, and signed at Colorado, and received 13 of the 17 first place votes that season.

Again, Austin Dufault, who went high major, and played in 0 state tournaments, without a significantly better stat line, won in a landslide. If we compare Hurlburt and Dufault, Hurlburt has had a significantly more impressive high school career.

Did we lose common sense just because people do not like Hurlburt/Kraft/Enderlin for whatever reason?

Good response, and thanks.

[ndlionsfan]

Where you are signed to play basketball at the next level should have absolutely zero effect on voting for Mr. Bball in ND.

[balla45]

Where you are signed to play basketball at the next level should have absolutely zero effect on voting for Mr. Bball in ND.

We are comparing the following players and stat lines.

6'6" G averaging 29.8 points, 8.5 rebounds, 5.0 assists, 2.4 blocks, and 2.5 steals, shooting 46.9/39.0/76.5 in 31.5 minutes on a team that has been consistently ranked in the poll. He had the most impressive game of the 2 with his 52 point, 10 rebound, 8 assist, 4 steal, and 3 block game against Bismarck Century. He also had the least impressive game of the 2 with his 26 point, 11 rebound, 2 assist, 4 steal, 1 block, 7 turnover, 8-30 shooting game against Bismarck Legacy. In my opinion, he has been a top 2 performer in every game that he has played in. In short, this player has been very dominant.

6'11" F averaging 25.0 points, 14.4 rebounds, 4.6 assists, 1.8 blocks, and 1.8 steals, shooting 54.7/39.8/77.3 in 27.5 minutes on a team that has been consistently ranked in the poll. In my opinion, he has been a top 2 performer in every game that he has played in. In short, this player has been very dominant.

I think it is fair to use one player being a high major and one player being a mid major as a differentiation point when both players are dominating the competition in a similar fashion. Why is it not?

[Flip]

Colleges are recruiting on what they think you may become, not what you are in high school. Look at Gus, the kid has never been 2nd team all state and a Big 10 school recruited him. Jordan Meidinger is another example. How many kids in that class had better offers than him? Jalen Suggs was not the best player on last year's Gonzaga team, but he was the best prospect. The player that wins the Heisman every year isn't always the greatest NFL prospect.

[balla45]

Colleges are recruiting on what they think you may become, not what you are in high school. Look at Gus, the kid has never been 2nd team all state and a Big 10 school recruited him. Jordan Meidinger is another example. How many kids in that class had better offers than him? Jalen Suggs was not the best player on last year's Gonzaga team, but he was the best prospect. The player that wins the Heisman every year isn't always the greatest NFL prospect.

If Joe is not on Enderlin and getting the majority of the attention, I think Gus is all state multiple times. I could be wrong. They both benefit from each other as far as their team being better, but they are a hindrance to each other when it comes to collectable statistics. Gus off of Enderlin probably gets Joe at least a few more shots per game, leading to at least 4-6 more points and rebounds per game. Joe off of Enderlin probably gets Gus at least 8 more shots per game, leading at least to 8-10 more points and 6-8 more rebounds per game. All of this purely speculation, but I think pretty accurate.

If you look at my original post, I stated skill player. Meidinger, in my opinion, is a disqualifier as he was never a skill player, just size.

I struggle with the Suggs situation. If you are a better player in the best league, you are a better player. I will always view it that way. If Player A can dominate in college and is not good enough to play in the NBA, and Player B can play in the NBA, I think Player B is better than Player A. When the competition gets to the highest level and you can still do your thing, you are just better.

[classB4ever]

Where you are signed to play basketball at the next level should have absolutely zero effect on voting for Mr. Bball in ND.

I tend to agree with this. Let's face it, nearly all ND kids who are 6'-9" or taller and have any basketball skills are going to be recruited D1 simply for what they may become and the fact you can't teach size. It's really that simple. Joe is 6'-11" with a very good skillset and athleticism. That allowed him to be recruited at another level.

Eaglestaff is having a banner year against more "like" players (kids his own size). Also believe he is only going to be 17 when he graduates (please let me know if I'm wrong on this) which means he has ability to mature physically in next 4 years.

Think all fans should be honored to have witnessed Joe play his high school career. Simply put, he is a generational player due to his size and skillset. ND just doesn't produce many big guys let alone a big guy with his skillset.

There are certainly other players who could be named Mr. Basketball and certainly are deserving. However, this year really think it comes down to these 2 players.

Both are deserving and wish all of the players good luck for the rest of the season. Stay healthy.

[balla45]

I agree with almost the entirety of your post. I will still stand with my opinion that when they are both essentially completely dominant, the high major aspect is enough to tip the scales as to why I think Joe is better.

[ndlionsfan]

Colleges are recruiting on what they think you may become, not what you are in high school. Look at Gus, the kid has never been 2nd team all state and a Big 10 school recruited him. Jordan Meidinger is another example. How many kids in that class had better offers than him? Jalen Suggs was not the best player on last year's Gonzaga team, but he was the best prospect. The player that wins the Heisman every year isn't always the greatest NFL prospect.

Exactly, this is an award on your ND HS bball career. Like another person said, someone that is 6-10 and has decent talent is going to get recruited at a high level. Then you have someone like Trey Brandt and others who are 6-0 but have been leaders on their team for 3-4 years and taken them to state multiple times. More than likely not going D-1 to even the ND schools, but should be a legitimate candidate for the award for what they have done, not what they will possibly do. However, I'm sure some voters don't look at it that way.

[balla45]

Colleges are recruiting on what they think you may become, not what you are in high school. Look at Gus, the kid has never been 2nd team all state and a Big 10 school recruited him. Jordan Meidinger is another example. How many kids in that class had better offers than him? Jalen Suggs was not the best player on last year's Gonzaga team, but he was the best prospect. The player that wins the Heisman every year isn't always the greatest NFL prospect.

Exactly, this is an award on your ND HS bball career. Like another person said, someone that is 6-10 and has decent talent is going to get recruited at a high level. Then you have someone like Trey Brandt and others who are 6-0 but have been leaders on their team for 3-4 years and taken them to state multiple times. More than likely not going D-1 to even the ND schools, but should be a legitimate candidate for the award for what they have done, not what they will possibly do. However, I'm sure some voters don't look at it that way.

Several of my voter friends have made it quite clear that is it not supposed to be a career award and only a senior season award. Is this no longer accurate?

I have always understood that the challenge of it being a career award is that it is "typically" more challenging to play varsity for 4-6 years in Class A than it is in Class B, so it is only a senior season award.