2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

[balla45]

I think the thing that bothers most people about Joe is his attitude. He has all the talent in the world but most people, myself included, don't like the way he always complains to the ref, I've seen him yell at his coach and can sometimes get super lazy on defense. Joe has extreme talent but if he brings an attitude to college it will not fly. I do hope he has great success though.

Is Hurlburt getting technical fouls?

Player and coach dynamics can be quite complex. I certainly can not speak for Coach Kraft, but just in reading the comments that he makes about Joe Hurlburt, it does seem that Coach Kraft enjoys coaching him.

[The Schwab]

This is going to be an unpopular take for most on this board but here it goes:

I absolutely believe that you should respect everyone you come across, whether it is the C.E.O or the janitor. I have always instilled that belief in any student/athlete I have worked with.

However, to go along with this point:

How many hours has this young man spent on working on his craft of basketball outside of the traditional high school season? Thousands and thousands of hours.

How many hours does your average official spend working on their craft outside of the traditional basketball season? I'll let you answer that question, but it won't be a lot.

How many officials change their style and what rules they chose to enforce based on the points of emphasis from NFHS? Not many

I have had officials point blank tell me that they don't care what it says in the rule book, they will call the game how they want to call it.

Now imagine yourself as a 6'10" player in North Dakota. How many players do you play against your size? Not many

Do those smaller players get some more leniency with what is called a foul or not on them, just because of the sheer size difference? I think most of you know the answer to that question.

Is it fair? I'll answer this with a question. Was an advantage gained? Before you answer that, remember it doesn't matter how great of an advantage was gained, or if it out weighs your opponents advantage. If the contact is illegal and an advantage is gained, it is a foul.

I would assume that 99.9% of this board have absolutely no idea of what it is like to endure what Joe has to endure to play high school basketball. I would also bet that no one would handle it well all of the time.

Lets remember that he is a high school student.

[sportsphenom]

I think the thing that bothers most people about Joe is his attitude. He has all the talent in the world but most people, myself included, don't like the way he always complains to the ref, I've seen him yell at his coach and can sometimes get super lazy on defense. Joe has extreme talent but if he brings an attitude to college it will not fly. I do hope he has great success though.

Attitude is an epidemic Statewide by players...and fans! I've heard race comments, homophobic comments and threats just on live streams this winter. I've seen complaining to refs, taunting and way too many dirty plays of elbows, shoulders or undercuts on dunk attempts...that are just downright embarrassing.

I sadly agree with this, the disrespect I have witnessed is horrible. Coaches, parents, admins, etc need to get a grip on this.

[WalkingStick]

I think the thing that bothers most people about Joe is his attitude. He has all the talent in the world but most people, myself included, don't like the way he always complains to the ref, I've seen him yell at his coach and can sometimes get super lazy on defense. Joe has extreme talent but if he brings an attitude to college it will not fly. I do hope he has great success though.

Attitude is an epidemic Statewide by players...and fans! I've heard race comments, homophobic comments and threats just on live streams this winter. I've seen complaining to refs, taunting and way too many dirty plays of elbows, shoulders or undercuts on dunk attempts...that are just downright embarrassing.

I sadly agree with this, the disrespect I have witnessed is horrible. Coaches, parents, admins, etc need to get a grip on this.

Too many schools DO NOT do anything about things said by fans to players, coaches or officials...in ND or MN right now. They brush it off as 'kids being kids' or 'overreaction by a parent' or worse 'the other team is lying...our fans are angels' but the actions continue. The things I've heard over the years is appalling...but some of the live stream action I've caught this year is beyond appalling.

[The Schwab]

This is going to be an unpopular take for most on this board but here it goes:

I absolutely believe that you should respect everyone you come across, whether it is the C.E.O or the janitor. I have always instilled that belief in any student/athlete I have worked with.

However, to go along with this point:

How many hours has this young man spent on working on his craft of basketball outside of the traditional high school season? Thousands and thousands of hours.

How many hours does your average official spend working on their craft outside of the traditional basketball season? I'll let you answer that question, but it won't be a lot.

How many officials change their style and what rules they chose to enforce based on the points of emphasis from NFHS? Not many

I have had officials point blank tell me that they don't care what it says in the rule book, they will call the game how they want to call it.

Now imagine yourself as a 6'10" player in North Dakota. How many players do you play against your size? Not many

Do those smaller players get some more leniency with what is called a foul or not on them, just because of the sheer size difference? I think most of you know the answer to that question.

Is it fair? I'll answer this with a question. Was an advantage gained? Before you answer that, remember it doesn't matter how great of an advantage was gained, or if it out weighs your opponents advantage. If the contact is illegal and an advantage is gained, it is a foul.

I would assume that 99.9% of this board have absolutely no idea of what it is like to endure what Joe has to endure to play high school basketball. I would also bet that no one would handle it well all of the time.

Lets remember that he is a high school student.

The whole point I was trying to make with this statement is that we tend to hold students to higher standards than we hold ourselves or other adults too. Modeling is a key part that is missing when you attend an athletic event. If you want student/athletes to behave better, we have to have adults behave better.

[hoophoophoop]

After watching Kindred Enderlin game, Eaglestaff definitely takes a big leap ahead.

Fascinating. The 21 point, 15 rebound, 7 assist, 7 block effort that Joe Hurlburt had against a Kindred team that is likely good enough to win a state title caused a different player to take a big leap in an award race. Why?

Cause he's anti-Enderlin...always has been.

Eaglestaff looks pretty normal when teams have a defender that can guard him...like say Minot. People always comment negatively when a player doesn't dominate against everyone. What is the one team that has the height to match up with Enderlin...that would be Kindred

Just never seen a team get so much hype that plays just above average IMO, I hope they go to state and win but I really doubt they will. Didn't realize his stats were that good the other night, I've seen a lot of people play in my career, he just doesn't have the wow factor for me. Sorry not trying to tear the kid down at all, I hope he has a successful college career!!!

[balla45]

After watching Kindred Enderlin game, Eaglestaff definitely takes a big leap ahead.

Fascinating. The 21 point, 15 rebound, 7 assist, 7 block effort that Joe Hurlburt had against a Kindred team that is likely good enough to win a state title caused a different player to take a big leap in an award race. Why?

Cause he's anti-Enderlin...always has been.

Eaglestaff looks pretty normal when teams have a defender that can guard him...like say Minot. People always comment negatively when a player doesn't dominate against everyone. What is the one team that has the height to match up with Enderlin...that would be Kindred

Just never seen a team get so much hype that plays just above average IMO, I hope they go to state and win but I really doubt they will. Didn't realize his stats were that good the other night, I've seen a lot of people play in my career, he just doesn't have the wow factor for me. Sorry not trying to tear the kid down at all, I hope he has a successful college career!!!

I think it speaks to the greatness of Joe Hurlburt that you can watch him play in a game where he has 21 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 7 blocks against a good team and think, wow he did not play well. That is a career game type statistical output for 99.9% of players, but when Joe does it, in your mind, another player leaps him in an award race.

In my opinion, the goalposts for what is impressive or not impressive have been moved, just for Hurlburt, because he is a 6'11" high major D1 guy. I think there is almost no scenario where an Eaglestaff, Brandt, Nhial, etc. put up 21, 15, 7, and 7 against a good team and people are unimpressed. At this point, in my opinion, Hurlburt is not being compared to anyone else and is just being compared against himself and this idea of what people think he "should" be.

[Flip]

Is Hurlburt getting technical fouls?

I've coached plenty of kids with poor attitudes but never received a technical.

[ndlionsfan]

Is Hurlburt getting technical fouls?

I've coached plenty of kids with poor attitudes but never received a technical.

I wish officials would step up and start calling them. I've seen a number of times this year where a player's reaction to a call deserved a technical. Also many times where a coach would not stop jawing all game and deserved a tech as well. But the officials let it go and the games get a bit out of hand. It just takes a few Ts and people get the message and it cleans up the entire game.

[balla45]

Is Hurlburt getting technical fouls?

I've coached plenty of kids with poor attitudes but never received a technical.

I had quoted a comment about a player complaining to officials. If the individuals officiating have an issue with what a particular player is doing, they do have a course of action that can be taken.

[Sportsrube]

Is Hurlburt getting technical fouls?

I've coached plenty of kids with poor attitudes but never received a technical.

I wish officials would step up and start calling them. I've seen a number of times this year where a player's reaction to a call deserved a technical. Also many times where a coach would not stop jawing all game and deserved a tech as well. But the officials let it go and the games get a bit out of hand. It just takes a few Ts and people get the message and it cleans up the entire game.

I could not agree more. The amount of whining and complaining from players and coaches has gotten worse in the last 4-5 years. (Fans have always been an issue) There was a fan removed from the District 6 Girl's tournament this year - I wish officials (refs or AD's/Tournament Managers) would do more of this as well.

[Flip]

You can have an awful attitude and still not deserve a technical. The attitude can be towards their teammates or coach, lack of effort, body language, etc.

[balla45]

You can have an awful attitude and still not deserve a technical. The attitude can be towards their teammates or coach, lack of effort, body language, etc.

I agree. The poster I responded to commented on a player complaining to officials and yelling at a coach.

[maddog1971]

Coaches Jawing and Complaining and sticking up for the team is part of the game. It has been part of the game for the last 50 years or maybe since the beginning of the game. Kids showing up officials and complaining is out of hand. Needs to be some more Tech's handed out and the coaches need to teach their players it is not ok to complain by sitting them down. If Kraft would have ever done that with this group of boys... maybe they would not have the problem right now.
I know the more a player complains the less calls you are going to get. Plain and simple. If you body someone and get a foul called on you and you complain... Next time someone bodies you and there is no call and complain again... it will keep getting worse. I always taught kids to shutup... if you talk to the official you sit down.

[WalkingStick]

Coaches Jawing and Complaining and sticking up for the team is part of the game. It has been part of the game for the last 50 years or maybe since the beginning of the game. Kids showing up officials and complaining is out of hand. Needs to be some more Tech's handed out and the coaches need to teach their players it is not ok to complain by sitting them down. If Kraft would have ever done that with this group of boys... maybe they would not have the problem right now.
I know the more a player complains the less calls you are going to get. Plain and simple. If you body someone and get a foul called on you and you complain... Next time someone bodies you and there is no call and complain again... it will keep getting worse. I always taught kids to shutup... if you talk to the official you sit down.

You know what the main influence for this action...the NBA where you can complain the WHOLE game as a big name player and have no consequences.

Talking to an official is fine, in my eyes...it's all about how you talk to the official.

I've noticed when kids get the technicals this year for attitude to officials...the reaction by the coaches to stand up for the player's attitude is there as well. So, he's sticking up for his or her team, by your statement above...so is that ok?

[balla45]

I know the more a player complains the less calls you are going to get. Plain and simple. If you body someone and get a foul called on you and you complain... Next time someone bodies you and there is no call and complain again... it will keep getting worse.

While I do agree that this happens, this would be an example of bad officiating.

[maddog1971]

I know the more a player complains the less calls you are going to get. Plain and simple. If you body someone and get a foul called on you and you complain... Next time someone bodies you and there is no call and complain again... it will keep getting worse.

While I do agree that this happens, this would be an example of bad officiating.

I completely disagree.... I think it is great officiating.

[WalkingStick]

I know the more a player complains the less calls you are going to get. Plain and simple. If you body someone and get a foul called on you and you complain... Next time someone bodies you and there is no call and complain again... it will keep getting worse.

While I do agree that this happens, this would be an example of bad officiating.

I completely disagree.... I think it is great officiating.

No, it's not because what could transpire from this type of officiating could end up being MUCH worse for the official, player or opposing player. Saw it happen on Monday night (twice...in two different games).

Players need to learn to adapt more to what is being called instead of complaining...basketball is technically a contact sport. Not enough warnings are handed out early to keep players from complaining...I think a warning needs to be handed out in 1st half (if needed) and then the whole team is warned.

Players should be allowed to converse with officials (captains especially) as long as it's calm, cool and collected so that the captain can relay the message to teammates.

[Sportsrube]

Coaches Jawing and Complaining and sticking up for the team is part of the game. It has been part of the game for the last 50 years or maybe since the beginning of the game. Kids showing up officials and complaining is out of hand. Needs to be some more Tech's handed out and the coaches need to teach their players it is not ok to complain by sitting them down. If Kraft would have ever done that with this group of boys... maybe they would not have the problem right now.
I know the more a player complains the less calls you are going to get. Plain and simple. If you body someone and get a foul called on you and you complain... Next time someone bodies you and there is no call and complain again... it will keep getting worse. I always taught kids to shutup... if you talk to the official you sit down.

You know what the main influence for this action...the NBA where you can complain the WHOLE game as a big name player and have no consequences.

Talking to an official is fine, in my eyes...it's all about how you talk to the official.



I've noticed when kids get the technicals this year for attitude to officials...the reaction by the coaches to stand up for the player's attitude is there as well. So, he's sticking up for his or her team, by your statement above...so is that ok?

I agree with the NBA influence, but I will also place part of the blame on AAU ball. I have gotten to a couple of tournaments in the past 2 summers and the amount of complaining, gestures, etc... by players was unreal. I also had the opportunity to visit with a few college coaches that I know and they all said pretty much the same thing - "We don't care for AAU ball, but we have to come to these tournaments in order to make contact with and recruit these kids."

[sportsphenom]

I agree with alot of the above on where the attitudes come from. I think more technicals need to be handed out to players and coaches. I have noticed lately though that there are more warnings going out which is good. On that note, what is the situation in Maple River and their coach? Does he get to coach his next game or is he suspended? I thought the refs let that go for far too long but in the end the result was the same. There is no need for that in high school basketball.

[WalkingStick]

I agree with alot of the above on where the attitudes come from. I think more technicals need to be handed out to players and coaches. I have noticed lately though that there are more warnings going out which is good. On that note, what is the situation in Maple River and their coach? Does he get to coach his next game or is he suspended? I thought the refs let that go for far too long but in the end the result was the same. There is no need for that in high school basketball.

Well, they had a game on Monday night in Wyndmere...did he coach in that game? That would answer the suspended question. He'd be good for Region 1 Play-Ins tonight.

I thought the T came at such an odd time...thought he earned the first one earlier than that...second one should have come out sooner cause you knew he wasn't ending until he got it. An administrator should have been there to walk him out instead of him walking himself out...cause he came back to say more.

Side Note: The bench player taunting from the opposing team on the coach's walkout is lucky that wasn't called too.

[classB4ever]

In my opinion, the goalposts for what is impressive or not impressive have been moved, just for Hurlburt, because he is a 6'11" high major D1 guy. I think there is almost no scenario where an Eaglestaff, Brandt, Nhial, etc. put up 21, 15, 7, and 7 against a good team and people are unimpressed. At this point, in my opinion, Hurlburt is not being compared to anyone else and is just being compared against himself and this idea of what people think he "should" be.

Getting back to the topic , I certainly do believe some of what you say above is true. As pointed out earlier, there are no other athletes to compare him to in ND as far as height goes, especially in class b, so it truly is hard to gauge his skillset to others. This is where the debate always goes sideways for me. A person of his physical stature is not going to have the "quick twitch" movements of smaller players. He appears a bit more robotic/lethargic because of this. This is not a bad thing, just a physics thing. Believe it was east sider that brought up a point a number of pages back and has made me think about it, the "eye test". IMHO, it's hard to compare Hurlburt and Eaglestaff because of their different styles and movements. Eaglestaff at 6'-6" has fluidity and "quick twitch" movements that smaller players possess and this seems to set him apart. Hurlburt, with his much larger frame is not going to "appear" as smooth when playing against much smaller players. However, when watching film from his summer games where playing against players his size or closer, he appears much smoother and you can see his ball handling and other skillsets stand out for someone of his size. Hope that makes, 2 cents.

[balla45]

I know the more a player complains the less calls you are going to get. Plain and simple. If you body someone and get a foul called on you and you complain... Next time someone bodies you and there is no call and complain again... it will keep getting worse.

While I do agree that this happens, this would be an example of bad officiating.

I completely disagree.... I think it is great officiating.

It is bad officiating if an official intentionally does not call a foul because a player has annoyed that official.

[balla45]

In my opinion, the goalposts for what is impressive or not impressive have been moved, just for Hurlburt, because he is a 6'11" high major D1 guy. I think there is almost no scenario where an Eaglestaff, Brandt, Nhial, etc. put up 21, 15, 7, and 7 against a good team and people are unimpressed. At this point, in my opinion, Hurlburt is not being compared to anyone else and is just being compared against himself and this idea of what people think he "should" be.

Getting back to the topic , I certainly do believe some of what you say above is true. As pointed out earlier, there are no other athletes to compare him to in ND as far as height goes, especially in class b, so it truly is hard to gauge his skillset to others. This is where the debate always goes sideways for me. A person of his physical stature is not going to have the "quick twitch" movements of smaller players. He appears a bit more robotic/lethargic because of this. This is not a bad thing, just a physics thing. Believe it was east sider that brought up a point a number of pages back and has made me think about it, the "eye test". IMHO, it's hard to compare Hurlburt and Eaglestaff because of their different styles and movements. Eaglestaff at 6'-6" has fluidity and "quick twitch" movements that smaller players possess and this seems to set him apart. Hurlburt, with his much larger frame is not going to "appear" as smooth when playing against much smaller players. However, when watching film from his summer games where playing against players his size or closer, he appears much smoother and you can see his ball handling and other skillsets stand out for someone of his size. Hope that makes, 2 cents.

I tend to agree with this.

[east sider]

After watching Kindred Enderlin game, Eaglestaff definitely takes a big leap ahead.

Fascinating. The 21 point, 15 rebound, 7 assist, 7 block effort that Joe Hurlburt had against a Kindred team that is likely good enough to win a state title caused a different player to take a big leap in an award race. Why?

Yeah, I don't know how you watch that game and come away with his main competition "definitely takes a big leap ahead". Are those official stats? I definitely missed the 7 blocks, probably counted 3. I'm much more sold on him playing at a higher level after the Kindred game. He is a special rebounder and has the highest ceiling of any player in the state without a doubt.

He still has issues though. How many TOs did he have? Still complains too much to refs. Seems aloof on defense half the time. And most importantly his team still lost.

I watched the first half of Eaglestaff vs. Legacy. He struggled shooting and must've shot close to 15 times in the half alone, but he made some great passes to teammates. I can't watch enough of both to make the call but I'm sticking with whoever has the better post season wins Mr. BB.