2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

[WalkingStick]

Well again I am with all of you that these are high school kids and they will make mistakes but the double bird flipped to the Kindred students after fouling out.... I just don't like. He is a great player but that type of stuff... I just can not get behind.

HAHA CLASSIC, I am surprised you aren't still in the ER with your foot up a couple re-ends,. Claiming that you are old school and you and your old man wouldn't allow some things. Now remember these are things all year long that you have bad-mouth other teams on.

Kindred student section chanting every single free throw "pressure pressure", doesnt bother me but you have been mad at other schools for doing similiar actions. No comment at all.

One kid last nights forgets the correct jersey shorts, when they arrive after the start of the game he raises his arms to try get the crowd fired up bc he can finally play. Real old school person woulda sat him for not being locked in ready to play in a Regional Championship.

Second kids, makes a great play and gets a great dunk. After the dunk he head taps and yells right in Enderlin kids face and get a taunting T. You said in your previous post you would have had a "foot in the rear" but guess not.

First thing you come on here and do today is RIP on a kid from the losing team, you are literally what is wrong with HS sports to a "T". So hypercritical is unbelievable.

I don't condone Hurlburt's actions (if those were his actions...many of his actions tend to be overblown by maddog; wasn't there don't know). If he did do that...why wouldn't he have gotten a 'T' then? Joe's actions are hated on more than a private school athlete...that's odd.

Good Luck to Kindred's coaches & players at State...you earned your trip.

I still think Mr. Basketball will be close but I still believe Hurlburt will win it by a slight margin over Eaglestaff.

[maddog1971]

Blinders??? The Kid flips the double bird to the student section after he fouls out and I am the jerk?

Wow this is what is wrong with this world.

By the way if you want to bash on Kindred... Go right ahead. I thought this topic was Mr. Basketball.

Peraza got blocked by Gus early in the game and he heard it from their crowd and Enderlin players... He screwed up at the end of the game after he dunk right over Gus... He flexed and tapped his head... He was wrong and he got pulled out of the game and sat down for a few minutes. HE was wrong and trust me he knows it.

[classB4ever]

Preface: I have absolutely no dogs in this fight so this is an unbiased observation of last night's game.

I was blown away with how much pushing and hand checking that was allowed in the Enderlin/Kindred game. As a past player, ref and coach have always watched how everything slides when there is a much taller player. As an undersized player guarding a much taller player, I would do everything physically I could get away with until something was called. As a coach, would teach my players the same. As a ref, I quit doing it. Felt that rules are rules, whether the players are 4' or 7'.

When Hurlburt would go vertical to receive a lob pass, he consistently landed 2-3 feet away from his take off point, with an elbow or hand in his back moving him. I do not blame any of the players who were doing it. I was shocked that it was allowed to go on all game long. Also, the difference in calls and amount of contact allowed from one end to the other was very noticeable.

Once again, I did not care one way or another who won the game but wanted to give an unbiased opinion on what I witnessed. Congrats to Kindred for a hard fought battle. They will be a very tough out in the state tourney.

On topic, I'm not sure how this will affect the votes for Mr. Basketball. I am still leaning Eaglestaff, but we have a week of debate left to convince me otherwise. 2 cents.

[Sportsrube]

Only comment I'm going to make on all this is that the officials (statewide and all season) allowed way too much to go on. It was the worst year I can remember in a very long time for reactions by players and coaches to calls/officiating. I watched games from every class, gender, and region this year and it was the same in just about all of them. Every game I watched had massive temper tantrums about calls that weren't warned or given Ts. A majority of calls or no calls received arms up, screaming, whining, etc. from either players or the coach. Sportsman like behavior was no better. Lots of swearing, trash talking, and gesturing at opposing players that wasn't addressed. If I'm not mistaken unsportsmanlike behavior was a point of emphasis for officiating....they must have missed the memo.....

You get what you tolerated and it was the wild west this year for behavior.

Could not agree more. The NDHSAA seems to ignore this type of behavior just like some officials ignore the "points of emphasis" every year and call what they want to call.

[The Schwab]

Only comment I'm going to make on all this is that the officials (statewide and all season) allowed way too much to go on. It was the worst year I can remember in a very long time for reactions by players and coaches to calls/officiating. I watched games from every class, gender, and region this year and it was the same in just about all of them. Every game I watched had massive temper tantrums about calls that weren't warned or given Ts. A majority of calls or no calls received arms up, screaming, whining, etc. from either players or the coach. Sportsman like behavior was no better. Lots of swearing, trash talking, and gesturing at opposing players that wasn't addressed. If I'm not mistaken unsportsmanlike behavior was a point of emphasis for officiating....they must have missed the memo.....

You get what you tolerated and it was the wild west this year for behavior.

Could not agree more. The NDHSAA seems to ignore this type of behavior just like some officials ignore the "points of emphasis" every year and call what they want to call.

^^^ This as well.

[BasketballMind]

Referees that "want the players to decide it" and don't want to "influence the outcome" by swallowing their whistle are ruining these tournaments. By not calling fouls early and allowing teams to hammer each other, you are influencing the outcome. Call fouls early and set the tone so the players have to adjust. It's a formula that has always worked and still does. I also think a referee that primarily does college level games all winter shouldn't be given Region and State tournament games because he's part of the "good ole boys" club.

Last years state tournaments were uncomfortable to watch. I'm sure this year it's going to be a gong show again. Higher levels of play should mean higher levels of officiating. I do not want to hear this cop out answer of "letting the players decide it on the floor". All that tells me is the officials aren't confident enough to make the right calls, so they call nothing and think that's a solution.

[Flying Wallenda]

Referees that "want the players to decide it" and don't want to "influence the outcome" by swallowing their whistle are ruining these tournaments. By not calling fouls early and allowing teams to hammer each other, you are influencing the outcome. Call fouls early and set the tone so the players have to adjust. It's a formula that has always worked and still does. I also think a referee that primarily does college level games all winter shouldn't be given Region and State tournament games because he's part of the "good ole boys" club.

Last years state tournaments were uncomfortable to watch. I'm sure this year it's going to be a gong show again. Higher levels of play should mean higher levels of officiating. I do not want to hear this cop out answer of "letting the players decide it on the floor". All that tells me is the officials aren't confident enough to make the right calls, so they call nothing and think that's a solution.

Quite honestly, the physicality is out of control. I watched 2 region 1 GBB game and a couple region 2 BB games, and it was beyond rough. Its not basketball. And it 100% can decide outcomes. Why aren't the rules called the way they are written? I don't understand.

[defensewinsgames]

From what I have heard....officials are being told to not interrupt the flow of the game which is what is translating into the physical nature. By letting the "ticky tack" stuff go you are changing the game which means the game was played under one set of rules all season and then come tournament time it becomes a rugby scrum. I see the most let go with reaches/holds especially while guarding the ball and then post play. Watch what does on in the post at the state tournaments it basically two guys wrestling for 30 seconds.

I also think this leads to the frustration and reactions by players and coaches getting worse...at least partially. When you have come to expect things to be called a certain way and now during the most important game of the season nothing is getting called, you are probably going to get frustrated and probably have the right to.

[The Schwab]

Officials who don't want to impact the game by blowing their whistle too much, are in fact determining the outcome of the game by not administering the rules of basketball as written in the rule book.

[balla45]

Quite possible none of these guys win.

I would not be shocked to see Yankton win Mr. Basketball. Undefeated with good numbers. In my opinion, the 3 best seniors did what they could do to lead their teams to success. Brandt and Hurlburt are not going to play in the State B and Eaglestaff went 0-2 at the State A. 3 of the more remarkable careers in recent memory. It is nice that we will get to see them all continue to play at the next level.

[GOPACKGO!!!]

Enderlin/Kindred game the refs went around the circle of players in the first half trying to maintain control and keep all the kids on the floor. I actually thought there were too many calls to be honest. You people complain like you want to sit in the gym all night and see 30 fouls per half, guess what, there aren't enough kids on the bench for that. Oh, and don't forget, these are High School refs that are the same caliber as the kids playing the game.

Any kid that makes any gesture to fans or other players needs a T, seat on the pine, and a discussion with so it stops.

Kindred was just too fast for the Eagles to stay with on D and the Eagles didn't shoot well enough to stay in it. Doesn't help when your post players are posting up on the three point line for the ball. Assuming they are doing this because when they posted up in the lane no one would throw them the ball & the Kindred D was so good the big boys got shutdown. Kindred had a great game on both ends of the court so congrats to them.

I don't think Joe is a Mr. Basketball winner for 2022. I recall being ripped on for commenting on him bringing the ball up because he can't dribble, well maybe you should watch the Enderlin/Kindred game. Sit n spin Joe trying to dribble and turning the ball over multiple times. The only way he could perform on offence against Kindred was to cast from 30', which he did well. Bottom line, his attitude/actions on the court should remove him from the list. You should have character values as well as basketball skills for this award. Ready for this kid to be gone so we can all stop talking about him.

[classB4ever]

Great picture. Thanks for that. There’s winners and losers in life. I’ve watched the process of Mr. Basketball since it was put in. Haven’t agreed with it every year, but can understand the voting. If it goes outside 2 people this year, I’ll be amazed. There are certainly other players than Hurlburt and Eaglestaff that will get votes. I will say this, 1 of these 2 will win Mr. Basketball.

[classB4ever]

Enderlin/Kindred game the refs went around the circle of players in the first half trying to maintain control and keep all the kids on the floor. I actually thought there were too many calls to be honest. You people complain like you want to sit in the gym all night and see 30 fouls per half, guess what, there aren't enough kids on the bench for that. Oh, and don't forget, these are High School refs that are the same caliber as the kids playing the game.
.

I have enjoyed your posts in the past. In this one instance, believe you’re way off base. Stating they tried to keep all the kids on the floor is ludicrous. If you swallow your whistle during these games, no small school stands a chance. PERIOD. As stated in many posts earlier, Kindred coached and played the game perfectly. Deeper, more physical, rotate players, beat the heck out of the other players until they get called for a foul. Guess what, they didn’t. Great for Kindred. Not so much for anybody else. If the the officials don’t start calling fouls according to the rule book, Kindred will win every game by 25 at state.

[packers21]

Enderlin/Kindred game the refs went around the circle of players in the first half trying to maintain control and keep all the kids on the floor. I actually thought there were too many calls to be honest. You people complain like you want to sit in the gym all night and see 30 fouls per half, guess what, there aren't enough kids on the bench for that. Oh, and don't forget, these are High School refs that are the same caliber as the kids playing the game.
.

I have enjoyed your posts in the past. In this one instance, believe you’re way off base. Stating they tried to keep all the kids on the floor is ludicrous. If you swallow your whistle during these games, no small school stands a chance. PERIOD. As stated in many posts earlier, Kindred coached and played the game perfectly. Deeper, more physical, rotate players, beat the heck out of the other players until they get called for a foul. Guess what, they didn’t. Great for Kindred. Not so much for anybody else. If the the officials don’t start calling fouls according to the rule book, Kindred will win every game by 25 at state.

Totally agree

[BasketballMind]

Enderlin/Kindred game the refs went around the circle of players in the first half trying to maintain control and keep all the kids on the floor. I actually thought there were too many calls to be honest. You people complain like you want to sit in the gym all night and see 30 fouls per half, guess what, there aren't enough kids on the bench for that. Oh, and don't forget, these are High School refs that are the same caliber as the kids playing the game.

This is the exact type of copout answer I was talking about. Nobody said they want to see 30 fouls called per half. Players, coaches, and fans want to see fouls called that are obvious and for them to be consistent. The officiating has been horribly inconsistent from regular season to tournament play. I don’t care who the referee is, if you’re primarily reffing college basketball then you shouldn’t be anywhere near the region tournaments. You know as well as I do that the same guys get the tournaments every year because they’re part of the North Dakota good old boys club that has been around for decades. There actually are some young up-and-coming referees in the area that don’t get to referee in the tournaments, because we have to keep bringing these old guys around that don’t abide by the new points of emphasis or rules and just referee the games the same way that they did when they started.

Players adjust to the way the game is officiated, if you are in control of the action early the players will adjust. When you consistently swallow your whistle on very obvious fouls in the spirit of letting the players play and letting the players decided on the floor, it eventually gets too rough. You then have referees forced into bad make up calls to try to save face. Then the players don’t know how to play or what is going to be called and the game gets out of control. I can’t believe this was your argument.

[BasketballMind]

From what I have heard....officials are being told to not interrupt the flow of the game which is what is translating into the physical nature. By letting the "ticky tack" stuff go you are changing the game which means the game was played under one set of rules all season and then come tournament time it becomes a rugby scrum. I see the most let go with reaches/holds especially while guarding the ball and then post play. Watch what does on in the post at the state tournaments it basically two guys wrestling for 30 seconds.

I also think this leads to the frustration and reactions by players and coaches getting worse...at least partially. When you have come to expect things to be called a certain way and now during the most important game of the season nothing is getting called, you are probably going to get frustrated and probably have the right to.

Your first sentence is probably 100% true and that needs to change. Not calling fouls that are fouls does interrupt the flow of the game. Is there going to have to be a legitimate physical altercation between players for these guys to change? Maybe a kid is sick of getting fouled all night and snaps for a second. Wouldn’t surprise me if this stuff continues. Way too much, time, money, and energy go into these teams and games for a quality game to be ruined by this caveman thinking.

[Sportsrube]

Just got done watching the Class A Boy's Championship game and I thought the officiating was not good. I thought it was very inconsistent and the amount of hand gesturing by players after foul calls was unreal. A West Fargo kid fouled out and basically pulled his jersey half off when he was on the court and nothing. After the game you could hear someone from the West Fargo bench ask "Can you hire better refs?" over the TV broadcast. I don't watch a lot of Class A basketball so I don't know if that was a physical game or just an average Class A game.

[BelfieldBantams]

My opinion on the refs are that they have been letting too much go for YEARS. This is not a new thing. My personal opinion is that they have been watching too many games on tv, meaning college and the pros. Well that wasn't called in this game, then I probably shouldn't call it. And since teams see these things are not getting called, they will continue to do it.

I was at the Region 1 championship game. I know Joe fouled out but he probably could have been called for 10 fouls easy. But he could have also gone to the line for about 20 free throws also. There was one time in particular where Joe took a shot from the top of the key just inside the 3 point line and Perazza closed out on him. Not only did Joe get a hand to the upper chest as he went up (FOUL) but he came down on Perazza's SHIN (FOUL). Thankfully he didn't get hurt but both should have been called, and neither one was. That's one example of many where not enough was called so it turned into a very physical game.

[maddog1971]

I complain about the Refs all the time as well.... Just like everyone else. It is our nature I guess.... but What I will say is... You try it for a season and see how good you are at it. I have Ref'd young kids games.... NOPE... I am really bad at it. I have respect for anyone willing to get out on the floor. I have seen some really bad jobs on the court but... IMO but it is 100 times better than I could do and also better than anyone else on this board.

[BasketballMind]

I complain about the Refs all the time as well.... Just like everyone else. It is our nature I guess.... but What I will say is... You try it for a season and see how good you are at it. I have Ref'd young kids games.... NOPE... I am really bad at it. I have respect for anyone willing to get out on the floor. I have seen some really bad jobs on the court but... IMO but it is 100 times better than I could do and also better than anyone else on this board.

A problem is a lot of the referees getting pushback are the most experienced ones. These complaints aren't about young guys that are going to make mistakes due to less experience. The established referees that are set in their ways, don't adopt new points of emphasis, and referee the game the same way every year are the problem. The guys that aren't willing to say "You know what, I missed that one" if questioned on something. Many of them double down on their call because they're incapable of admitting they ever make mistakes. Imagine if a coach or player acted like that?

I don't think the "it's hard and if you don't do it you can't complain" is a response that's going to make them any better. Coaches and players don't get that kind of an out when people are critiquing them, why are referees some kind of protected class? The good old boys club needs to burn to the ground and we need to get new guys into these tournaments. At the very least ask them to be consistent in their calls and communicate with the coaches on disagreements. I don't know what the referees are required to do to improve year to year, but when the same complaint on the boys and girls side continues to happen, every single year, something should be done to make the games better.

[defensewinsgames]

I complain about the Refs all the time as well.... Just like everyone else. It is our nature I guess.... but What I will say is... You try it for a season and see how good you are at it. I have Ref'd young kids games.... NOPE... I am really bad at it. I have respect for anyone willing to get out on the floor. I have seen some really bad jobs on the court but... IMO but it is 100 times better than I could do and also better than anyone else on this board.

So same as you...I don't critique individual game officiating (I'm not sure if I every have on here, if I have it isn't very often). I have reffed a lot of C squad, JH, and Elem games and it isn't an easy job. I have a lot of respect and appreciation for our officials. My comment here is actually the opposite, that it isn't the officials fault. They are being given specific instructions by the state association, tournament managers, head official, IDK who but they aren't making the decision. They are being given instructions on how to call games at tournament time so complaining about them isn't doing anything. Especially at state tournaments where they are getting supervised and evaluated every game. It is like when people complain to the gas station clerk about gas prices....really...you think they set them?

[Bison-Vikes #1]

I complain about the Refs all the time as well.... Just like everyone else. It is our nature I guess.... but What I will say is... You try it for a season and see how good you are at it. I have Ref'd young kids games.... NOPE... I am really bad at it. I have respect for anyone willing to get out on the floor. I have seen some really bad jobs on the court but... IMO but it is 100 times better than I could do and also better than anyone else on this board.

Well, my comeback would be this: They get paid to do a job. It's not easy. For us that have did it, we know it's not easy. But none the less, you get paid to do it, so do it right.

I'm going to compare reffing to politics. Refs need to pass a test which is tricky. Need to know your Rule Book, Case Book and Official's Manual (politics - campaigning). Then you do camps and get critiqued (politics - election).

Now you move to real games (politics - Washington DC). In the beginning, you generally get on with more experienced refs and garner real life experience at real time. After a number of years, you become comfortable and probably put together your own team. What you choose to do at this point probably has some influence from other orbits. If you climb on board with the higher ups (politics - majority & minority leaders), you get regional and state tourneys (politics - influential committees and lots of "perks" read kickbacks by lobbyists), if not, you are relegated to regular season games and thrown a district tourney or 2 (politics - voted out next election).

[The Schwab]

I complain about the Refs all the time as well.... Just like everyone else. It is our nature I guess.... but What I will say is... You try it for a season and see how good you are at it. I have Ref'd young kids games.... NOPE... I am really bad at it. I have respect for anyone willing to get out on the floor. I have seen some really bad jobs on the court but... IMO but it is 100 times better than I could do and also better than anyone else on this board.

Well, my comeback would be this: They get paid to do a job. It's not easy. For us that have did it, we know it's not easy. But none the less, you get paid to do it, so do it right.

I'm going to compare reffing to politics. Refs need to pass a test which is tricky. Need to know your Rule Book, Case Book and Official's Manual (politics - campaigning). Then you do camps and get critiqued (politics - election).

Now you move to real games (politics - Washington DC). In the beginning, you generally get on with more experienced refs and garner real life experience at real time. After a number of years, you become comfortable and probably put together your own team. What you choose to do at this point probably has some influence from other orbits. If you climb on board with the higher ups (politics - majority & minority leaders), you get regional and state tourneys (in politics - influential committees and lots of "perks" read kickbacks by lobbyists), if not, you are relegated to regular season games and thrown a district tourney or 2 (politics - voted out next election).

I would assume that in most associations all of the refs get together to take the test, which you can use a rule book on. It's not that difficult of a test.

[Bison-Vikes #1]

I would assume that in most associations all of the refs get together to take the test, which you can use a rule book on. It's not that difficult of a test.

I'm sure you are correct. Haven't taken one in years. Post was attempt to lighten discussion a bit.

[The Schwab]

I would assume that in most associations all of the refs get together to take the test, which you can use a rule book on. It's not that difficult of a test.

I'm sure you are correct. Haven't taken one in years. Post was attempt to lighten discussion a bit.

Understandable. I proposed a change to "freedom of movement" on this board a while back and it wasn't met with agreement. I would propose this again.