2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Class B Boys
Forum rules
Please do not post just to complain about players, coaches, teams, officials, fans, or anyone else. Lets all try to demonstrate the spirit of good sportsmanship. Posts may be edited or deleted that do not comply.

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:13 pm

balla45 wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
Flip wrote:Colleges are recruiting on what they think you may become, not what you are in high school. Look at Gus, the kid has never been 2nd team all state and a Big 10 school recruited him. Jordan Meidinger is another example. How many kids in that class had better offers than him? Jalen Suggs was not the best player on last year's Gonzaga team, but he was the best prospect. The player that wins the Heisman every year isn't always the greatest NFL prospect.


Exactly, this is an award on your ND HS bball career. Like another person said, someone that is 6-10 and has decent talent is going to get recruited at a high level. Then you have someone like Trey Brandt and others who are 6-0 but have been leaders on their team for 3-4 years and taken them to state multiple times. More than likely not going D-1 to even the ND schools, but should be a legitimate candidate for the award for what they have done, not what they will possibly do. However, I'm sure some voters don't look at it that way.


Several of my voter friends have made it quite clear that is it not supposed to be a career award and only a senior season award. Is this no longer accurate?

I have always understood that the challenge of it being a career award is that it is "typically" more challenging to play varsity for 4-6 years in Class A than it is in Class B, so it is only a senior season award.


I'm not sure I guess. I have always thought of it as a career award and the SPOY based on the senior season. I could be completely wrong, though. Even so, base it on what the kids do their senior season and how they lead their team versus where they were recruited or going to college next year.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4092
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby WalkingStick » Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:15 pm

It's a senior award.
One Stop Shop for All North Dakota Scores
https://www.northdakotaprepscoreboards.com/

"Control what you can control...Can't fix ignorant people"
WalkingStick
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1933
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:04 pm

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:22 pm

I find the criteria to not make sense.

This will sound like I am being a hater but I am not intending to be.

Last season, a player took a team that was not supposed to be “good” to the Class A state championship game and lost to a player who did not get his team out of a relatively “weak” Class B region.

I do not think it is a good look for ND high school basketball if the guy with a state record going to a high major with a high school winning percentage of around 85% is not winning a Mr. Basketball award.


The reason it is so simple for me is just that I think Hurlburt is better at the game of basketball than everyone else playing high school basketball in this state is right now.


If Brandt or Eaglestaff run the table the rest of the season and win a title, I do believe in rewarding winning. As it stands right now, I think these 3 are the consensus best players and none of their teams are undefeated or ranked 1 right now. That takes me to the best player should win theory, and Joe is the best player. Huge fans of all 3 and their families. Just my opinion.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:27 pm

I also want to just add. Being 6’9”-6’11” and skilled in ND does not make a player automatically D1.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby classB4ever » Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:30 pm

balla45 wrote:I find the criteria to not make sense.

This will sound like I am being a hater but I am not intending to be.

Last season, a player took a team that was not supposed to be “good” to the Class A state championship game and lost to a player who did not get his team out of a relatively “weak” Class B region.

I do not think it is a good look for ND high school basketball if the guy with a state record going to a high major with a high school winning percentage of around 85% is not winning a Mr. Basketball award.


The reason it is so simple for me is just that I think Hurlburt is better at the game of basketball than everyone else playing high school basketball in this state is right now.


If Brandt or Eaglestaff run the table the rest of the season and win a title, I do believe in rewarding winning. As it stands right now, I think these 3 are the consensus best players and none of their teams are undefeated or ranked 1 right now. That takes me to the best player should win theory, and Joe is the best player. Huge fans of all 3 and their families. Just my opinion.


This is a good discussion. You bring solid points. Early on, I was leaning Eaglestaff for stated reasons. You have swayed me a bit. I'm 50/50 right now. Going to be a tough decision.
classB4ever
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:20 pm

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:49 pm

balla45 wrote:I find the criteria to not make sense.

This will sound like I am being a hater but I am not intending to be.

Last season, a player took a team that was not supposed to be “good” to the Class A state championship game and lost to a player who did not get his team out of a relatively “weak” Class B region.

I do not think it is a good look for ND high school basketball if the guy with a state record going to a high major with a high school winning percentage of around 85% is not winning a Mr. Basketball award.


The reason it is so simple for me is just that I think Hurlburt is better at the game of basketball than everyone else playing high school basketball in this state is right now.


If Brandt or Eaglestaff run the table the rest of the season and win a title, I do believe in rewarding winning. As it stands right now, I think these 3 are the consensus best players and none of their teams are undefeated or ranked 1 right now. That takes me to the best player should win theory, and Joe is the best player. Huge fans of all 3 and their families. Just my opinion.


I think we just have a different take on the award. I feel you are looking at it as who is the most talented senior basketball player and I am looking at it as who had the best senior season leading their team. Both can definitely be the same person, though.

Is Joe Hulburt probably the most talented high school senior this year? Yes. If he doesn't get a talented Enderlin team to state, is he Mr. Bball. To me, no.

I'll go back to the Melvin Langstaff and Joe Hanstad discussion from years ago. Was Joe Hanstad the most talented high school senior? Yes, but he only played half a season. Melvin Langstaff took a team that would easily be below .500 without him to within a couple points of a state tournament berth. Had the better season and won Mr. Bball.

Again, that's just how I look at it. Doesn't mean that's the way it's supposed to be or how others should vote, either.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4092
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby The Schwab » Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:52 pm

Just an FYI Melvin Langstaff and Joe Hanstad were not seniors the same season. Phillip Schanilec from Midway Minto won Mr. Basketball the year that Joe was a senior. Melvin beat out Dexter Werner from Bismarck.
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4329
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:55 pm

The Schwab wrote:Just an FYI Melvin Langstaff and Joe Hanstad were not seniors the same season. Phillip Schanilec from Midway Minto won Mr. Basketball the year that Joe was a senior. Melvin beat out Dexter Werner from Bismarck.


My bad, I thought they were same season. You get the point, though.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4092
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 2:58 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
balla45 wrote:I find the criteria to not make sense.

This will sound like I am being a hater but I am not intending to be.

Last season, a player took a team that was not supposed to be “good” to the Class A state championship game and lost to a player who did not get his team out of a relatively “weak” Class B region.

I do not think it is a good look for ND high school basketball if the guy with a state record going to a high major with a high school winning percentage of around 85% is not winning a Mr. Basketball award.


The reason it is so simple for me is just that I think Hurlburt is better at the game of basketball than everyone else playing high school basketball in this state is right now.


If Brandt or Eaglestaff run the table the rest of the season and win a title, I do believe in rewarding winning. As it stands right now, I think these 3 are the consensus best players and none of their teams are undefeated or ranked 1 right now. That takes me to the best player should win theory, and Joe is the best player. Huge fans of all 3 and their families. Just my opinion.


I think we just have a different take on the award. I feel you are looking at it as who is the most talented senior basketball player and I am looking at it as who had the best senior season leading their team. Both can definitely be the same person, though.

Is Joe Hulburt probably the most talented high school senior this year? Yes. If he doesn't get a talented Enderlin team to state, is he Mr. Bball. To me, no.

I'll go back to the Melvin Langstaff and Joe Hanstad discussion from years ago. Was Joe Hanstad the most talented high school senior? Yes, but he only played half a season. Melvin Langstaff took a team that would easily be below .500 without him to within a couple points of a state tournament berth. Had the better season and won Mr. Bball.

Again, that's just how I look at it. Doesn't mean that's the way it's supposed to be or how others should vote, either.



I understand your point. I just disagree. I think that overvalues 1 game. 1 game should not determine if you had the best season or not.

To me, this would be like saying that since Trey Brandt lost in overtime last year to go to State, he should not be All State. That does not make sense to me.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:07 pm

In 2006, Travis Mertens did not make state in Class A on a tough Devil’s Lake team. Eric Erdmann then went on to lead Fargo North to a state title.

Then Mertens went on to win EDC and Class A Senior Athlete of the Year and Mister Basketball. No one questioned it, that I remember, because it was obvious.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:09 pm

If Century girls end up losing a game this year or next year or not winning a state title, is Logan Nissley no longer the best player in North Dakota?
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby The Schwab » Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:11 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
The Schwab wrote:Just an FYI Melvin Langstaff and Joe Hanstad were not seniors the same season. Phillip Schanilec from Midway Minto won Mr. Basketball the year that Joe was a senior. Melvin beat out Dexter Werner from Bismarck.


My bad, I thought they were same season. You get the point, though.


I get the point you are trying to make, but couldn't the same be said for Joe Hurlburt and Enderlin? Take him off of that team and IMO they are at best the 3 seed in Region 1 this year. Enderlin has struggled in the tournaments before, but that shouldn't be held against him as this is a senior year award.

Joe's senior year stats thus far:

25 ppg
14.4 rpg
4.6 apg
1.8 bpg
1.8 spg
55% fg
40% 3pt
77% FT

All while being the focal point of every team Enderlin faces and of everyone on this message board.

In my opinion it doesn't matter if they get upset in the first round of the regional basketball tournament, Joe is the best senior basketball player in ND and should be awarded Mr. Basketball
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4329
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby classB4ever » Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:12 pm

Here is where I get hung up:

Eaglestaff has to play against like players every night simply because there are more 6'-6" guys in ND. Especially in Class A. He does that at a very high level and with less help "team wise" than Hurlburt.

Hurlburt does not have an equal in ND and especially not in Class B, in regards to his size. This is why it's so hard to know what his skillset really is. balla45 has had the opportunity to watch him during the summer against bigger, better competition. Also has had the opportunity to see each player on the court at the same time. So, balla45 brings much value to this debate. With that said and having watched each of them play many times, I am still 50/50.
classB4ever
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:20 pm

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:13 pm

Another example that comes to mind.


Carson Henningsgard, Boden Skunberg, and Grant Nelson. Now, Grant Nelson got over the hump his senior year, Skunberg was injured and that precedent was already set with Hanstad, and Henningsgard did not get to play any of his state tournament due to COVID. If Nelson loses in his qualifier game, did Henningsgard have a better senior year and should he then be Mr. Basketball? I think it was quite clear that Henningsgard was not on the same level as Nelson and Skunberg, and the votes showed that. Does that change if Nelson does not make state, because in my opinion, it should not.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:18 pm

classB4ever wrote:Here is where I get hung up:

Eaglestaff has to play against like players every night simply because there are more 6'-6" guys in ND. Especially in Class A. He does that at a very high level and with less help "team wise" than Hurlburt.

Hurlburt does not have an equal in ND and especially not in Class B, in regards to his size. This is why it's so hard to know what his skillset really is. balla45 has had the opportunity to watch him during the summer against bigger, better competition. Also has had the opportunity to see each player on the court at the same time. So, balla45 brings much value to this debate. With that said and having watched each of them play many times, I am still 50/50.


I understand where you are coming from but I also disagree with how significant the numbers Eaglestaff puts up are when compared to similar talents.

Skunberg averaged 28 and 11 as a senior in that league playing with I would estimate 20 less possessions per game. Moody averaged 33 over his junior and senior years playing with what I would estimate to be about 25 less possessions per game.

If you are a skilled Division 1 basketball player in ND, you are going to dominate. It sounds dumb somewhat, but the numbers are essentially irrelevant because you are playing against people who mostly can not guard you at all.

If Wilhelm really wanted to, he could have Eaglestaff average 40-50 points a game, no doubt in my mind.

In the WDA right now I think there are probably 4-6 players total who can move with Eaglestaff and get actual shot contests.


I think Eaglestaff is so good. Moody is my all time favorite player, partly because I had the chance to coach him and get to know his family for such a long time. If he chooses to play out his entire collegiate career, he has a chance to score 1000 Division 1 points. I think Eaglestaff is on the same level as that guy, with more athletic ability, size, and potential to get bigger as he is over a full 12 months younger at the same stage of their high school careers. Skunberg is another player I compare Eaglestaff to and he is an on again off again starter for a very solid NDSU team. I think these are the 3 best players to graduate from a WDA school in the past 10 years. Nothing against Werner, Rudolph, Weisbeck, etc., I just think these 3 guys were on a different level as high school seniors. Note *- Hanstad graduated in 2011.

I can just honestly say that I think Hurlburt is better than all of them as seniors in high school and should have/would have been Mr. Basketball over all of them too.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby UNDSiouxfan » Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:31 pm

So here's a question. Not trying to diminish either athlete because they are each unique in their own way.

Switch places.

If Joe Hurburt played for Bismarck High and played their schedule, how would he and that team do against such competition?

Vice-versa - if Eaglestaff played for Enderlin and was in Joe's shoes, how would he and that team do?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My opinion:

Bismarck High would still be good, but not as good as they are with Eaglestaff. And, I guarantee Joe H would be parked in the lane and average about 15/10 per game. Joe would have many more breaks due to the speed of the class A game. I still think Bismarck High would play at a high level, but if you had any class A team with 8-10 kids that can play and throw in a 6'11" guy with skills you're definitely going to be good.

Enderlin, on the other hand, would be undefeated.

Both are good players in their own way, but Eaglestaff would likely get 35-40 PPG at the class B game. His talent level, I always like to call it the eye test, is higher IMO at this point of his career.

For discussion, I also feel Trey Brandt (my #2) would still be scoring 25 PPG if he were on any class A team.

All of these kids are unique in their own way and I too wish nothing but good health for all of them as they wind up their high school careers. And, I do hope all of these names mentioned get to play in the state tourney so everyone gets a chance to see them play.

Feel free to discuss as I'd like to hear some honest opinions.
User avatar
UNDSiouxfan
NDPreps All-Conference
 
Posts: 245
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2015 11:12 am

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 3:42 pm

UNDSiouxfan wrote:So here's a question. Not trying to diminish either athlete because they are each unique in their own way.

Switch places.

If Joe Hurburt played for Bismarck High and played their schedule, how would he and that team do against such competition?

Vice-versa - if Eaglestaff played for Enderlin and was in Joe's shoes, how would he and that team do?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My opinion:

Bismarck High would still be good, but not as good as they are with Eaglestaff. And, I guarantee Joe H would be parked in the lane and average about 15/10 per game. Joe would have many more breaks due to the speed of the class A game. I still think Bismarck High would play at a high level, but if you had any class A team with 8-10 kids that can play and throw in a 6'11" guy with skills you're definitely going to be good.

Enderlin, on the other hand, would be undefeated.

Both are good players in their own way, but Eaglestaff would likely get 35-40 PPG at the class B game. His talent level, I always like to call it the eye test, is higher IMO at this point of his career.

For discussion, I also feel Trey Brandt (my #2) would still be scoring 25 PPG if he were on any class A team.

All of these kids are unique in their own way and I too wish nothing but good health for all of them as they wind up their high school careers. And, I do hope all of these names mentioned get to play in the state tourney so everyone gets a chance to see them play.

Feel free to discuss as I'd like to hear some honest opinions.


Bismarck High would still be good, but not as good as they are with Eaglestaff. And, I guarantee Joe H would be parked in the lane and average about 15/10 per game. Joe would have many more breaks due to the speed of the class A game. I still think Bismarck High would play at a high level, but if you had any class A team with 8-10 kids that can play and throw in a 6'11" guy with skills you're definitely going to be good.


I have actually had this conversation with some of the coaches at Bismarck High School and this is not at all how they would utilize Hurlburt. Whenever the conversation has come up, he has been inbounding the ball, trailing the play, and making plays down hill, and then been in the back of their press. With the pace of play that Bismarck High School plays at, I think Joe's numbers do not really change if he is playing at Bismarck High School, other than he gets more rebounds, blocks, and steals, as there is more opportunity in the system that Bismarck High School plays in since there are so many possessions.

If Eaglestaff plays for Enderlin, I think it is quite possible that they are undefeated and he averages 30-40 a game. If Hurlburt plays for Bismarck High School, I think it is quite possible that they are undefeated.

The losses that Bismarck High has taken have been to Minot and Century who both produced a lot in the paint, and Joe erases a lot of that.


Everyone, please understand this key point. We are creating hypothetical scenarios about players playing against people who have almost no chance of guarding them.

Just an example. I watched Brandt get off to a slow start in a game, and not play well in overtime, while having a 40 piece against Shiloh, who did everything they could to take him out of the game. Still did his thing.

Eaglestaff put up 52, 10, and 8 against a team with 4 NSIC or better players and another kid who just got offered by Mayville.

I got to watch some very entertaining 2 on 2 stuff with Eaglestaff, Brandt, Hurlburt, and Erikson this summer. It is hard to explain how good these guys are offensively.

I also think Brandt has a D1 skill set. He just is not 6'4" with long arms, great lateral quickness, and bounce.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby WalkingStick » Thu Feb 10, 2022 4:59 pm

Small point to make for the sake of stats in comparing A & B...Class A game is 4 minutes longer than the Class B game (18-minute halves compared to 8-minute quarters)
One Stop Shop for All North Dakota Scores
https://www.northdakotaprepscoreboards.com/

"Control what you can control...Can't fix ignorant people"
WalkingStick
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1933
Joined: Tue Jan 27, 2009 7:04 pm

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby east sider » Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:30 pm

UNDSiouxfan wrote:So here's a question. Not trying to diminish either athlete because they are each unique in their own way.

Switch places.

If Joe Hurburt played for Bismarck High and played their schedule, how would he and that team do against such competition?

Vice-versa - if Eaglestaff played for Enderlin and was in Joe's shoes, how would he and that team do?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My opinion:

Bismarck High would still be good, but not as good as they are with Eaglestaff. And, I guarantee Joe H would be parked in the lane and average about 15/10 per game. Joe would have many more breaks due to the speed of the class A game. I still think Bismarck High would play at a high level, but if you had any class A team with 8-10 kids that can play and throw in a 6'11" guy with skills you're definitely going to be good.

Enderlin, on the other hand, would be undefeated.

Both are good players in their own way, but Eaglestaff would likely get 35-40 PPG at the class B game. His talent level, I always like to call it the eye test, is higher IMO at this point of his career.

For discussion, I also feel Trey Brandt (my #2) would still be scoring 25 PPG if he were on any class A team.

All of these kids are unique in their own way and I too wish nothing but good health for all of them as they wind up their high school careers. And, I do hope all of these names mentioned get to play in the state tourney so everyone gets a chance to see them play.

Feel free to discuss as I'd like to hear some honest opinions.


I agree with you on pretty much everything, especially highlighted. He just seems better to me in a way you won't see on the stat sheet.
east sider
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:38 pm

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby east sider » Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:37 pm

The Schwab wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
The Schwab wrote:Just an FYI Melvin Langstaff and Joe Hanstad were not seniors the same season. Phillip Schanilec from Midway Minto won Mr. Basketball the year that Joe was a senior. Melvin beat out Dexter Werner from Bismarck.


My bad, I thought they were same season. You get the point, though.


I get the point you are trying to make, but couldn't the same be said for Joe Hurlburt and Enderlin? Take him off of that team and IMO they are at best the 3 seed in Region 1 this year. Enderlin has struggled in the tournaments before, but that shouldn't be held against him as this is a senior year award.

Joe's senior year stats thus far:

25 ppg
14.4 rpg
4.6 apg
1.8 bpg
1.8 spg
55% fg
40% 3pt
77% FT

All while being the focal point of every team Enderlin faces and of everyone on this message board.

In my opinion it doesn't matter if they get upset in the first round of the regional basketball tournament, Joe is the best senior basketball player in ND and should be awarded Mr. Basketball


Are you serious? Post-season awards are often given to players based on how far they get in the post-season. For one the games mean more and another is it's the easiest way of distinguishing similar talented individuals from the regular season.

No chance he has a shot at winning Mr. BB if he loses in the first round, nor should he. He is too talented and has way too much talent around him for that to happen.
east sider
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 196
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2010 12:38 pm

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:52 pm

I would hold it against Hurlburt if his team lost in the first round of the regional tournament. That would mean that production was not meant against a "less than stellar" team when the games matter more.

I am surprised no one seemed to mention this last year when the Mr. Basketball winner failed to play in a state tournament and beat candidates who won a state title and were runner up.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Thu Feb 10, 2022 6:54 pm

east sider wrote:
UNDSiouxfan wrote:So here's a question. Not trying to diminish either athlete because they are each unique in their own way.

Switch places.

If Joe Hurburt played for Bismarck High and played their schedule, how would he and that team do against such competition?

Vice-versa - if Eaglestaff played for Enderlin and was in Joe's shoes, how would he and that team do?


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My opinion:

Bismarck High would still be good, but not as good as they are with Eaglestaff. And, I guarantee Joe H would be parked in the lane and average about 15/10 per game. Joe would have many more breaks due to the speed of the class A game. I still think Bismarck High would play at a high level, but if you had any class A team with 8-10 kids that can play and throw in a 6'11" guy with skills you're definitely going to be good.

Enderlin, on the other hand, would be undefeated.

Both are good players in their own way, but Eaglestaff would likely get 35-40 PPG at the class B game. His talent level, I always like to call it the eye test, is higher IMO at this point of his career.

For discussion, I also feel Trey Brandt (my #2) would still be scoring 25 PPG if he were on any class A team.

All of these kids are unique in their own way and I too wish nothing but good health for all of them as they wind up their high school careers. And, I do hope all of these names mentioned get to play in the state tourney so everyone gets a chance to see them play.

Feel free to discuss as I'd like to hear some honest opinions.


I agree with you on pretty much everything, especially highlighted. He just seems better to me in a way you won't see on the stat sheet.


Purely for the discussion. Do you think Hurlburt averages 15 and 10 playing for Bismarck High?

Do you think the Eaglestaff Enderlin team beats Jackson Loge and Morris Area?
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby The Schwab » Thu Feb 10, 2022 11:19 pm

east sider wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
The Schwab wrote:Just an FYI Melvin Langstaff and Joe Hanstad were not seniors the same season. Phillip Schanilec from Midway Minto won Mr. Basketball the year that Joe was a senior. Melvin beat out Dexter Werner from Bismarck.


My bad, I thought they were same season. You get the point, though.


I get the point you are trying to make, but couldn't the same be said for Joe Hurlburt and Enderlin? Take him off of that team and IMO they are at best the 3 seed in Region 1 this year. Enderlin has struggled in the tournaments before, but that shouldn't be held against him as this is a senior year award.

Joe's senior year stats thus far:

25 ppg
14.4 rpg
4.6 apg
1.8 bpg
1.8 spg
55% fg
40% 3pt
77% FT

All while being the focal point of every team Enderlin faces and of everyone on this message board.

In my opinion it doesn't matter if they get upset in the first round of the regional basketball tournament, Joe is the best senior basketball player in ND and should be awarded Mr. Basketball


Are you serious? Post-season awards are often given to players based on how far they get in the post-season. For one the games mean more and another is it's the easiest way of distinguishing similar talented individuals from the regular season.

No chance he has a shot at winning Mr. BB if he loses in the first round, nor should he. He is too talented and has way too much talent around him for that to happen.


Yes, I am serious. My opinion is he is the best senior basketball player in ND and is having a phenomenal statistical season and has ridiculous career numbers. Do I think he would win the award if his team doesn’t make it out of the first round of regionals? No, I don’t. That doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t. Honestly, if I had to make a bet right now I would bet on someone else winning the award. That is going off of my gut feeling when it comes to the voting history and patterns, not on who I think should win the award. If Enderlin doesn’t make it to the state tournament I don’t think Joe wins the award.
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4329
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby classB4ever » Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:13 pm

balla45 wrote:
Purely for the discussion. Do you think Hurlburt averages 15 and 10 playing for Bismarck High?

Do you think the Eaglestaff Enderlin team beats Jackson Loge and Morris Area?


I think this is a really great hypothetical question. My opinion is both their statistical numbers would improve. I honestly believe that. No brainer with Eaglestaff playing Class B. But with the additional minutes Hurlburt would be playing in Class A due to longer games and less blow outs, and with less double and triple teaming simply because Class A teams are equipped better to handle a player of his caliber, I think he would shine even more.

As for Enderlin beating Morris Area with Eaglestaff, thinking they are just not deep enough to handle a team of that caliber so the results would be similar.

I think we would be having the same discussion if they could have switched teams. 2 cents.
Last edited by classB4ever on Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
classB4ever
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1158
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2009 12:20 pm

Re: 2021-2022 Mr. Basketball

Postby balla45 » Fri Feb 11, 2022 12:16 pm

The Schwab wrote:
east sider wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
The Schwab wrote:Just an FYI Melvin Langstaff and Joe Hanstad were not seniors the same season. Phillip Schanilec from Midway Minto won Mr. Basketball the year that Joe was a senior. Melvin beat out Dexter Werner from Bismarck.


My bad, I thought they were same season. You get the point, though.


I get the point you are trying to make, but couldn't the same be said for Joe Hurlburt and Enderlin? Take him off of that team and IMO they are at best the 3 seed in Region 1 this year. Enderlin has struggled in the tournaments before, but that shouldn't be held against him as this is a senior year award.

Joe's senior year stats thus far:

25 ppg
14.4 rpg
4.6 apg
1.8 bpg
1.8 spg
55% fg
40% 3pt
77% FT

All while being the focal point of every team Enderlin faces and of everyone on this message board.

In my opinion it doesn't matter if they get upset in the first round of the regional basketball tournament, Joe is the best senior basketball player in ND and should be awarded Mr. Basketball


Are you serious? Post-season awards are often given to players based on how far they get in the post-season. For one the games mean more and another is it's the easiest way of distinguishing similar talented individuals from the regular season.

No chance he has a shot at winning Mr. BB if he loses in the first round, nor should he. He is too talented and has way too much talent around him for that to happen.


Yes, I am serious. My opinion is he is the best senior basketball player in ND and is having a phenomenal statistical season and has ridiculous career numbers. Do I think he would win the award if his team doesn’t make it out of the first round of regionals? No, I don’t. That doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t. Honestly, if I had to make a bet right now I would bet on someone else winning the award. That is going off of my gut feeling when it comes to the voting history and patterns, not on who I think should win the award. If Enderlin doesn’t make it to the state tournament I don’t think Joe wins the award.


I can respect this take. Again, the winner of Mr. Basketball last season did not play in a state tournament, and the second most recent Class B winner did make the state tournament out of a "relatively weak" region and lost all 3 games at the state tournament.

Why are the rules different for Hurlburt? I do not like the argument that the criteria should be more challenging because he is more talented.
~I have no patience for anyone who doubts me, none at all. My entire goal is to make them feel ashamed for writing me off.

Jordan Maurer
North Dakota Phenom - President
jordan.maurer@northdakotaphenom.com

~Be phenomenal or be forgotten.

~It does not take talent to hustle!
User avatar
balla45
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4262
Joined: Tue Dec 26, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Bismarck, North Dakota USA

PreviousNext

Return to Boys

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests