Class B's Identity Problem

[Bison-Vikes #1]

No enrollment cutoffs. AA - 9 largest schools in each defined region. A - 6 largest schools in each defined region. B - the rest. Numbers evaluated every 2 years.

It seems thought out and I like that you brought an actual proposal. My only issue with it is that we're basically turning the "Big B" schools into one conference with two divisions. Takes away from the atmosphere of the actual State B tournament in my opinion. I'll take a look at Region 1 and 2 right now as they'd make up most of the NE division.

HCV, Thompson, MPCG, Grafton, Central Cass, Kindred, Northern Cass, Oak Grove, Hatton-Northwood, Park River are all out of the old R1 and R2. Cavalier is right on the border of that.

Now it's Enderlin laughing their way to the State tournament as the top 3 teams in their region are gone. North Border demolishes everyone in their path as 5/8 teams from the R2 tournament are now gone.

In a true class b shouldn't they be (Enderlin/North Border)? It has always been that way. A group of athletes making their run and then might not happen in that school for another 15 years. Right now you can predict 90% of the teams going for the next 10 years and it's always the same ones.

The remaining "B" schools are still going to need to become better programs because most of their best competition is gone.
They should try to get better. But at least there is a chance to make the dance which should entice them to get better. Right now, there really isn't any chance in maybe 6 of the 8 regions.
That's what this is about. Improving participation. That has to be the main goal. Not winning a state tournament. If it's only about winning, go to 1 class and see how it works.

It's either going to be either average teams "winning state" or a team like Enderlin with a few studs from the same family will destroy everyone. I don't think I'm going to a region tournament that has 7 teams in it with one of them being worth my time to watch. Going to the state "B" wouldn't be a big deal the way it is now and the attendance would plummet.

100% disagree. Enderlin, North Border, EKM, North Star, Flasher, Our Redeemers, Bowman County, Powers Lake could have all been there this year. I would be willing to bet this proposed tourney would have better attendance than current field.

You'd also start to see the random "Open Enroll" after a few years from the newer "A" schools to "B" schools. Or you'd have a stud from a "B" school on a bad team move to an "A" school that was near him/her/

You will always see that no matter what system is in place.

[maddog1971]

You would see quite a few COOP's go down that is for sure. Also Schools like CC/Kindred/ Hillsboro would cut the open enrollment down to get their schools smaller as well. Some towns will not have teams any more.

[The Schwab]

You would see quite a few COOP's go down that is for sure. Also Schools like CC/Kindred/ Hillsboro would cut the open enrollment down to get their schools smaller as well. Some towns will not have teams any more.

Unless it becomes a capacity issue for school district buildings I highly doubt any school would close off open enrollment in today's education climate, especially when the per pupil funding number is around $11,000.

[BasketballMind]

No enrollment cutoffs. AA - 9 largest schools in each defined region. A - 6 largest schools in each defined region. B - the rest. Numbers evaluated every 2 years.

If this was this year...

18 biggest schools – “AA”

Bismarck High, Bismarck Legacy, Bismarck Century, Bismarck St. Marys, West Fargo Sheyenne, West Fargo High, Fargo Davies, Fargo North, Fargo South, Fargo Shanley, Minot High, Grand Forks Central, Grand Forks Red River, Williston, Mandan, Turtle Mountain, Dickinson, Jamestown High


Next 24 (including all parochial schools to make everyone happy) to make up the new “A”

Devils Lake, Wahpeton, Valley City, Watford City, Fargo Oak Grove, Bishop Ryan, Dickinson Trinity, Our Redeemers, Shiloh Christian, Williston Trinity Christian, Central Cass, Grafton, Kindred, Beaulah, Stanley, Bottineau, Hillsboro/Central Valley Northern Cass, Lisbon, Thompson, Rugby, Killdeer, Hazen, Langdon

Langdon playing a conference basketball game against Wahpeton is a truly hilarious concept. (240 miles)

The rest is just the rest. I could be wrong but I don't know that FWM is under the cutoff line. If that's true they'll turn into the 1960s Boston Celtics real quick.

As an example of pandora's box opening up here are 3 co-ops that could be dissovled to stay in Class B. Hillsboro and Langdon could both drop their co-ops and get back "down" to Class B given the current numbers. I'm not sure on Four-Winds/Minnewaukan, but I think if they dropped Minnewaukan that would have the same result. I have a sneaking suspicion that any of the good athletes from CV, Munich-Starkweather or Minnewaukan may find a way to open enroll back at those schools for the rest of their high school careers. Just a hunch. CV, Minnewaukan and Munich-Starkweather may not have enough left to continue athletics and that can eventually kill a town. Some of the teams that make up the new A aren't even good Class B teams now because basketball isn't the only thing that school offers for extra curriculars. Sometimes you go through a run of a few classes where none of them care one iota about basketball.

A lot of schools with bigger numbers also offer way more sports/activities for their students. Even though this is anecdotal it still happens. I know for a fact their are male athletes from Hillsboro, Central Valley, Hatton, and Northwood that go play hockey in Mayville. A lot of Class B kids up and down I-29 participate in things in Fargo/GF whether its Martial Arts, Gymnastics, or something else. Guessing the same happens near the Bismarck area. MPCG loses a ton of athletes to Hockey. H-N kids have the option to wrestle in Mayville too. Hillsboro has wrestling/hockey. Grafton/Park River have hockey and a number of others are all in the same boat. I don't think this issue is as simple as "make a 3 class system so the little guy has a chance to play basketball on TV'. This would kill a few schools and towns if the bigger school of the co-op made a business decision and did what they thought was best for their school and athletic programs.

[Flip]

DPI has FW at 198 and Minnewaukan at 77.

[Bison-Vikes #1]

No enrollment cutoffs. AA - 9 largest schools in each defined region. A - 6 largest schools in each defined region. B - the rest. Numbers evaluated every 2 years.

If this was this year...

18 biggest schools – “AA”

Bismarck High, Bismarck Legacy, Bismarck Century, Bismarck St. Marys, West Fargo Sheyenne, West Fargo High, Fargo Davies, Fargo North, Fargo South, Fargo Shanley, Minot High, Grand Forks Central, Grand Forks Red River, Williston, Mandan, Turtle Mountain, Dickinson, Jamestown High


Next 24 (including all parochial schools to make everyone happy) to make up the new “A”.

Please show me where all parochial schools would be in the middle class for the plan I suggested. Will wait for your response on this before challenging the rest of your post. If you want to pick apart what I proposed, fine. But do it with facts and not assumptions.

[maddog1971]

No enrollment cutoffs. AA - 9 largest schools in each defined region. A - 6 largest schools in each defined region. B - the rest. Numbers evaluated every 2 years.

If this was this year...

18 biggest schools – “AA”

Bismarck High, Bismarck Legacy, Bismarck Century, Bismarck St. Marys, West Fargo Sheyenne, West Fargo High, Fargo Davies, Fargo North, Fargo South, Fargo Shanley, Minot High, Grand Forks Central, Grand Forks Red River, Williston, Mandan, Turtle Mountain, Dickinson, Jamestown High


Next 24 (including all parochial schools to make everyone happy) to make up the new “A”

Devils Lake, Wahpeton, Valley City, Watford City, Fargo Oak Grove, Bishop Ryan, Dickinson Trinity, Our Redeemers, Shiloh Christian, Williston Trinity Christian, Central Cass, Grafton, Kindred, Beaulah, Stanley, Bottineau, Hillsboro/Central Valley Northern Cass, Lisbon, Thompson, Rugby, Killdeer, Hazen, Langdon

Great Post. It will create a new list of problems after a few years. No Carrington??

I support a 3 class system because .... Just to move the Privates into a league. I think the number of Regional Champs by Private schools is way out of whack... BUT the only answer I can come up with is a 3rd class... and they have to have someone to play.

[maddog1971]

Bishop Ryan/St. Leo's 1937, 1938, 1939, 1942, 1943, 1994, 1999, 2000, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2008, 2011, 2017, 2018, 2019
Bismarck Shiloh Christian 1996, 1998, 2003, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2015, 2016, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021
Dickinson Trinity 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2013, 2016, 2017, 2021
Fargo Oak Grove 1949, 1954, 1957, 1969, 1986, 2000, 2001, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015, 2017

But... These teams have also lived in the state tournament as well.

Beulah 1938, 1949, 1951, 1952, 1970, 1984, 1989, 1996, 1997, 1998, 2010, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020
Hillsboro 1962, 1968, 1971, 1973, 1974, 1977, 1980, 1981, 1984, 1986, 1988, 1989, 1992, 1999,2017, 2018, 2020
Kenmare 1940, 1944, 1945, 1946, 1947, 1950, 1952, 1961, 1963, 1964, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1988, 2016
Linton 1934, 1935, 1948, 1950 1964, 1965, 1966, 1979, 1980, 1984, 1985, 1987, 1994, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2009, 2011,2012, 2014
Rugby 1940, 1941, 1945, 1946, 1948, 1950, 1951, 1952, 1953, 1997, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2020, 2021

So we need to for sure that we Get Linton into the middle class as well.... they have won way to much.

[Vikings2009]

If schools can't just co-op and keep it the way it is, why not just have the smallest schools opt down to c class if they choose. I think either way would be more beneficial than restructuring all the schools in ND.

[Bison-Vikes #1]

No enrollment cutoffs. AA - 9 largest schools in each defined region. A - 6 largest schools in each defined region. B - the rest. Numbers evaluated every 2 years.

If this was this year...

18 biggest schools – “AA”

Bismarck High, Bismarck Legacy, Bismarck Century, Bismarck St. Marys, West Fargo Sheyenne, West Fargo High, Fargo Davies, Fargo North, Fargo South, Fargo Shanley, Minot High, Grand Forks Central, Grand Forks Red River, Williston, Mandan, Turtle Mountain, Dickinson, Jamestown High


Next 24 (including all parochial schools to make everyone happy) to make up the new “A”

Devils Lake, Wahpeton, Valley City, Watford City, Fargo Oak Grove, Bishop Ryan, Dickinson Trinity, Our Redeemers, Shiloh Christian, Williston Trinity Christian, Central Cass, Grafton, Kindred, Beaulah, Stanley, Bottineau, Hillsboro/Central Valley Northern Cass, Lisbon, Thompson, Rugby, Killdeer, Hazen, Langdon
Not all private/parochial schools would automatically be in what I proposed. I doubt Our Redeemers or Trinity Christian would be but don't know enrollment numbers.

Langdon playing a conference basketball game against Wahpeton is a truly hilarious concept. (240 miles)
What was proposed would not have LEM playing Wahpeton unless it was a tournament which likely would be at a neutral site somewhere in the middle. However, let me ask you what would be more hilarious, LEM and FW/M playing against Wahpeton and Devils Lake or LEM and FW/M playing against Rolette or other small teams in R4? I would pay money to watch LEM and FW/M games against Wahpeton and DL. Not the other ones though. Since you want to take snippets of what I proposed and paint a picture, will also do it in the other direction.


The rest is just the rest. I could be wrong but I don't know that FWM is under the cutoff line. If that's true they'll turn into the 1960s Boston Celtics real quick.
Seriously? They already are the Boston Celtics of the 60's and highly doubt they would ever be under the cutoff line, but once again don't know the numbers.

As an example of pandora's box opening up here are 3 co-ops that could be dissovled to stay in Class B. Hillsboro and Langdon could both drop their co-ops and get back "down" to Class B given the current numbers. I'm not sure on Four-Winds/Minnewaukan, but I think if they dropped Minnewaukan that would have the same result. I have a sneaking suspicion that any of the good athletes from CV, Munich-Starkweather or Minnewaukan may find a way to open enroll back at those schools for the rest of their high school careers. Just a hunch. CV, Minnewaukan and Munich-Starkweather may not have enough left to continue athletics and that can eventually kill a town. Some of the teams that make up the new A aren't even good Class B teams now because basketball isn't the only thing that school offers for extra curriculars. Sometimes you go through a run of a few classes where none of them care one iota about basketball.
Really? So let's talk football. LEM and HCV have had outstanding football programs for quite sometime playing against many of the same teams of what was proposed. Are you saying they can compete in football which requires over 2 times more athletes to field a team but can't in BB, volleyball, etc.? Hmm.

A lot of schools with bigger numbers also offer way more sports/activities for their students. Even though this is anecdotal it still happens. I know for a fact their are male athletes from Hillsboro, Central Valley, Hatton, and Northwood that go play hockey in Mayville. A lot of Class B kids up and down I-29 participate in things in Fargo/GF whether its Martial Arts, Gymnastics, or something else. Guessing the same happens near the Bismarck area. MPCG loses a ton of athletes to Hockey. H-N kids have the option to wrestle in Mayville too. Hillsboro has wrestling/hockey. Grafton/Park River have hockey and a number of others are all in the same boat. I don't think this issue is as simple as "make a 3 class system so the little guy has a chance to play basketball on TV'. This would kill a few schools and towns if the bigger school of the co-op made a business decision and did what they thought was best for their school and athletic programs.
The very last part is probably the most disturbing part of your post. Please show me anywhere in the original post the proposal was so the little guy has a chance to play on tv. If it were up to me we would have 1 class across the state. Was not going to jump into this debate because of the emotional rants that come out of it. However, if we can get student athlete's participation to increase before it's too late, it's worth the debate.

I threw out a proposal for discussion purposes and have no problem if you pick it apart. That's why we debate. But please don't put in assumptions and then pull emotional strings to pick it apart. Would be great to know actual enrollment numbers, I don't have them. Maybe what was proposed is way off the deep end but would like to see hard numbers and facts to dismiss it and not all the old excuses used for the last 25 years.

[Bison-Vikes #1]

I'm not here to tell you what needs to be done. We all have our own opinions. I am here to talk about an identity problem for Class B basketball.

This is not what Class B is supposed to look like. I think we all know it, there are just some of us that refuse to acknowledge it.

It's time to use relegation and find a middle division. It's time to stop clinging to enrollment numbers as the only standard, take into account resources, critical mass of a community, and come together on the fact that some co-ops form simply to win, some communities have kids driving several miles just to get to a gym while others have more than enough space in walking distance, and start finding some middle ground.

This is not Class B.

Have followed heimer for many years on this site. Above is a portion of his original post. I threw out a proposal and think it fit's into the original post's narrative.

Truth be told, nothing will ever be done so finished with this discussion. Keep it the same, watch the participation numbers continue to plummet, be reactive instead of proactive and watch things dry up. It's already happening. Don't have a dog in this fight so will let someone else fight this one. Good luck.

[BasketballMind]

No enrollment cutoffs. AA - 9 largest schools in each defined region. A - 6 largest schools in each defined region. B - the rest. Numbers evaluated every 2 years.

If this was this year...

18 biggest schools – “AA”

Bismarck High, Bismarck Legacy, Bismarck Century, Bismarck St. Marys, West Fargo Sheyenne, West Fargo High, Fargo Davies, Fargo North, Fargo South, Fargo Shanley, Minot High, Grand Forks Central, Grand Forks Red River, Williston, Mandan, Turtle Mountain, Dickinson, Jamestown High


Next 24 (including all parochial schools to make everyone happy) to make up the new “A”.

Please show me where all parochial schools would be in the middle class for the plan I suggested. Will wait for your response on this before challenging the rest of your post. If you want to pick apart what I proposed, fine. But do it with facts and not assumptions.

This was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek because the private schools in class B has been a discussion point forever. If all the biggest true "B" schools are put in their own separate division but private schools stay in the new "B", you don't think that would be an issue? I didn't intend to offend you this much in my response, and part of it was responding to takes that have been around forever, so it's not entirely responding to your proposed system. I personally still don't think it works regardless of my sarcasm.

[Bison-Vikes #1]

This was meant to be a little tongue-in-cheek because the private schools in class B has been a discussion point forever. If all the biggest true "B" schools are put in their own separate division but private schools stay in the new "B", you don't think that would be an issue? I didn't intend to offend you this much in my response, and part of it was responding to takes that have been around forever, so it's not entirely responding to your proposed system. I personally still don't think it works regardless of my sarcasm.

Fair enough and no problems here. Thanks for the conversation.

[BelfieldBantams]

It's great to talk about all the classes and everything, but there are variables that you are not taking into consideration.

First, there are places that have been hotbeds for talent in the past, that can not find head coaches or assistants.

2nd, there are nights where there are plenty of teams that can not find 2 refs, let alone 3.

If we open up to a third class and then teams stop their co-ops will those situations get better?

Plus, you can talk about finding enough people to work events, such as ticket takers, concessions, working at the scorers table, bus drivers, etc.

If we go to 3 classes then travel costs increase and since most of school stuff is tax payer based, should those be increasing if there are ways to keep them under control?

I'm all for teams competing against other equally leveled teams and I am for 3 classes, but there are other factors involved than just athletes competing against athletes that need to be considered.

[The Schwab]

It's great to talk about all the classes and everything, but there are variables that you are not taking into consideration.

First, there are places that have been hotbeds for talent in the past, that can not find head coaches or assistants.

2nd, there are nights where there are plenty of teams that can not find 2 refs, let alone 3.

If we open up to a third class and then teams stop their co-ops will those situations get better?

Plus, you can talk about finding enough people to work events, such as ticket takers, concessions, working at the scorers table, bus drivers, etc.

If we go to 3 classes then travel costs increase and since most of school stuff is tax payer based, should those be increasing if there are ways to keep them under control?

I'm all for teams competing against other equally leveled teams and I am for 3 classes, but there are other factors involved than just athletes competing against athletes that need to be considered.

Move girls basketball back to the fall.

[ndlionsfan]

It's great to talk about all the classes and everything, but there are variables that you are not taking into consideration.

First, there are places that have been hotbeds for talent in the past, that can not find head coaches or assistants.

2nd, there are nights where there are plenty of teams that can not find 2 refs, let alone 3.

If we open up to a third class and then teams stop their co-ops will those situations get better?

Plus, you can talk about finding enough people to work events, such as ticket takers, concessions, working at the scorers table, bus drivers, etc.

If we go to 3 classes then travel costs increase and since most of school stuff is tax payer based, should those be increasing if there are ways to keep them under control?

I'm all for teams competing against other equally leveled teams and I am for 3 classes, but there are other factors involved than just athletes competing against athletes that need to be considered.

I don't think adding a third class makes any of these things harder than they are right now. Let's be honest, maybe 1 or 2 co-ops dissolve if a third class is added depending on what they use to define that middle class. There isn't going to magically be another 15 teams in the state competing. It may, however, keep a few more teams from co-oping in the near future, but that does change anything listed above.

[BasketballMind]

I threw out a proposal for discussion purposes and have no problem if you pick it apart. That's why we debate. But please don't put in assumptions and then pull emotional strings to pick it apart. Would be great to know actual enrollment numbers, I don't have them. Maybe what was proposed is way off the deep end but would like to see hard numbers and facts to dismiss it and not all the old excuses used for the last 25 years.

Four Winds has won one state championship despite having 7 chances to win it prior to this year. What we're looking at now is taking away the majority of the best programs/coaches in the state. They'd be overwhelming favorites every year.

HCV and LEM have been good for a "long time"? HCV won state in 2017 and 2019. Last state title prior to that was 2008. They lost the state championship game in 1996. Not exactly the New England Patriots of high school football. They had a great run of athletes (happens all the time) and capitalized on that with 2 state championships in 3 years.

Langdon has been very good during this run with the Romfo boys and kudos to them. A lot goes into a successful football program. So prior to this current run they're on (3 in a row) they hadn't been to the Dakota Bowl since 2009 when they lost 29-0 to Velva. Velva also beat them in 2000 (their first appearance) by a score of 27-6.

You're acting like HCV and LEM have been football juggernauts for years because of their enrollment. Hillsboro has 3 state football championships dating back to 1975 (according to NDHSAAnow).

Cavalier and Velva were football factories in the early part of the 2000s because they had great
athletes come through there that all played football. It happens.

On the topic of Langdon. Hand up, I was wrong about their possible new region opponent in Wahpeton. So given the teams I've got listed there I'd have to think the new NE region for A would consist of Langdon, Hillsboro-Central Valley, Grafton, Oak Grove, Northern Cass, and Thompson? That is still a ridiculous amount of traveling. You could assume you're playing everyone twice. Langdon to Fargo is 190 miles. For each school. Multiple times a year. Volleyball, Basketball, Baseball, etc. On top of that, it's still only 10 games in basketball, so you're going to need to find 8-10 other opponents either from the new "B" or out of state.

As far as my joke at the end goes, if that bothered you that much, then I apologize. However, that's where this whole debate feels like it's going even if nobody is going to say it.

Last point and then I'm done commenting on this on this website forever. Why not entertain the idea of the third class (I don't agree with a 3-class system btw) being "Class C" where 40 something (throwing out a number) of the smallest schools can congregate? The conversation typically is about moving the biggest B schools up to Class A. Say what you will on this but any school with a droppable co-op partner will drop that co-op partner without a second thought. A Class C with the smallest schools in the state playing each other would be far more competitive.

[3sportfan]

This pertains to one of Heimer's points about co-ops.
One of our coaches posted on social media this morning about an open gym in town A tonight. Within 30 minutes a number of parents of younger kids had posted "Can anyone give my kid a ride from town B to town A tonight?" This involves kids/parents paying for gas, finding a ride for younger kids and travel time for kids from town B which they could use to do other things like school work, chores at home, etc.....

if a three class system was implemented do you feel this situation would end

[Flip]

This pertains to one of Heimer's points about co-ops.
One of our coaches posted on social media this morning about an open gym in town A tonight. Within 30 minutes a number of parents of younger kids had posted "Can anyone give my kid a ride from town B to town A tonight?" This involves kids/parents paying for gas, finding a ride for younger kids and travel time for kids from town B which they could use to do other things like school work, chores at home, etc.....

if a three class system was implemented do you feel this situation would end

Three classes would not end this situation.
His point was in reference to what Heimer said in his original post. When figuring out enrollment you shouldn't just add the enrollment of the two schools together.

[B-oldtimer]

I brought up in one state tournament threads this years state tournament sure didn't feel like class b tournament and people got angry about talking about changing class b and adding new class of basketball. I now will bring it up because i stubborn and say this did not feel like class b tournament and i will say i didn't watch most of the tournament. I watched parts of first night's game the last game between DT and Kindred and hated how the game was officiated it was like watching football game and thinking back to my time in 70's and early 80's both these teams would have fouled out in first half. I know what's played today but one reason i have little interest in NBA and top college basketball it takes away what i liked about basketball quickness and players moving on the court to free themselves which created scoring. Now we have at the high school so it becomes hard to watch. Then i watched Fourwinds and Kindred for part of the second night hoping to see this more open style of basketball from Fourwinds and again we had this physical battle plus tv having two timeouts per quarter become slow game turned it off. Now my big question how much was it watched on tv and followed on other media i didn't watch any of the championship night coverage and i have lots friends said they didn't even watch who used to never miss and usually went out to the tournament no matter who played. I know younger generation if its not their team at state they hardly follow it . If you read my previous points in my other posts the state class b was popular because it was because of the small towns coming once to state tournament maybe once in every 15 to 20 years. Now look at the state tournament these teams hardly miss the the tournament and are there once every 5 years with exception of two heimer said belonged in the tournament. Think about it and what's happening to small town basketball in North Dakota.

[defensewinsgames]

I didn't mind how the tournament was officiated because like other posters said - it was consistent throughout games and even throughout the tournament. However, I do understand some peoples' frustration when that isn't how it was officiated all year and then come the state tournament all of a sudden it is allowed to be super physical. At the end of the day officiating is a variable you have to adjust to as a coach and player. I thought it was a great tournament with a ton of physical tough defense.

[maddog1971]

I spent quite a bit of time talking with many people from many different areas of the state this past weekend at the B. I spoke with many people that agreed that they thought that to many private schools are in the tournament every year and the only solution that they would agree on is a 3rd class. One thing I found interesting from many people was that they felt the reason for the Privates success was the parents and how they push their kids to succeed. I had a guy from Mott tell me that the reason people send their kids to private is for them to have a better education, more attention and tend to be more involved in their kids lives.... I never looked at that before. I was always with other B people saying it was because they recruit.
I spoke with another man at the B that was probable pushing 80. He said he never misses it. (and he had his shots already) We talked for about 20 minutes on this subject. Yes he agrees he does not like seeing the same schools all the time but again he surprised me when he started talking about this generation.
He told me he feels back in the 70's and even starting the 80's... kids played during the season and every once in awhile... he said now the parents are pushing these kids all the time, sending them to training and playing year round. He said kids don't get a chance to be kids anymore. (he was talking mainly about his grandkids) But he said now if you want to get to this stage... that is what you have to do. By the way he said he loved watching this tournament because he loves D-Fence....

[maddog1971]

the old guy also said he would not change the B at all and that would be dumb. He said you have to have the private schools in the tournament so you have someone to cheer against.... LOL

[The Schwab]

Go have a conversation with small public schools in Region 1, 2, 4, 5, 6 and 7. I bet you might get a few different points of view.

[maddog1971]

Well talked to Powers Lake people quite a bit. quite a few of them for hours. Most did not see any problem with the way it is... well they don't like the privates... but like I told them... they have to play someone so I told them I supported a 3 class system..... I did not get to much support for it.