Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Class B Boys
Forum rules
Please do not post just to complain about players, coaches, teams, officials, fans, or anyone else. Lets all try to demonstrate the spirit of good sportsmanship. Posts may be edited or deleted that do not comply.

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby BasketballMind » Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:03 am

Region Tournament projections
Play-in winners: Midway-Minto, Hatton-Northwood, May-Port, DVE

Round 1:
#1 NB defeats #8 DVE
#2 HCV defeats #7 MPCG
#3 Grafton defeats Hatton-Northwood
#4 Thompson defeats #5 Midway-Minto

Semi-Finals:
#1 NB defeats #4 Thompson
#3 Grafton defeats #2 HCV

Championship:
#1 NB defeats #3 Grafton
BasketballMind
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby defensewinsgames » Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:13 am

Thoughts on the play-in games tonight:

12 PRFL at 5 Midway-M: I think MM wins this one by 10+. Robinson and Schuster are too much at the guard positions for PRFL to matchup. I think MM uses their team speed and athletes to neutralize a bad matchup with Hagen.

11 Larimore at 6 Hatton-N: I think HN wins this one by 15+. HN has too much around their top two for Larimore to matchup with very well. Size and athleticism both favor HN unless Larimore can slow it way down and make it super sloppy.

10 MayPort @ 7 Cavalier: This could go either way. Cavalier has been playing a lot better the last two or three weeks and has the best player in Cluchie. MayPort has better depth and could definitely get a win here if they play well. In my opinion it all comes down to if they can show Cluchie down...I'm going to say they don't and Cavalier wins by 10 or so. The game being in Cavalier makes a huge difference (they are a different team at home).

9 DVE @ 8 FSHP: This is going to be the best game of the night IMO . They went to overtime the first time they played. I think it being in FSHP is a significant advantage (those long bus drives can be tough). Pollestad vs. Koenig is the matchup to watch. I will take FSHP at home by 3 or less.
defensewinsgames
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby BasketballMind » Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:54 am

D/VE defeats FSHP 61-57
Midway-Minot defeats PRFL 67-55
May-Port CG defeats Cavalier 62-59
Hatton-Northwood defeats Larimore 61-31

Region 2 tournament will be set up as follows.

Monday, March 8th, 2021
North Border vs Drayton/Valley-Edinburg (1:00 pm)
Midway/Minto vs Thompson (2:30 pm)
Hillsboro/Central Valley vs. May-Port CG (6:30 pm)
Hatton-Northwood vs Grafton (8:00 pm)

I think the 3-6 and 4-5 games could go either way. The two best senior players are meeting in the first round in Garza and Konschak. Don’t expect much resistance out of DVE or MPCG, but kudos to them for winning their play in game on the road.
BasketballMind
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby defensewinsgames » Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:41 pm

Monday, March 8th, 2021
North Border vs Drayton/Valley-Edinburg (1:00 pm)
Midway/Minto vs Thompson (2:30 pm)
Hillsboro/Central Valley vs. May-Port CG (6:30 pm)
Hatton-Northwood vs Grafton (8:00 pm)

I think this is going to be a great region tournament. My predictions for today's games:
North Border beats DVE by 20+. North Border has too many weapons for DVE to contain on defense and DVE has not clicked like many expected this year on offense. I think the length and speed of North Border will give DVE fits. Not sure how they slow down Lee and Stainbrook. DVE and how they have performed may be the biggest surprise to me this season in this region...I really thought they would be in the position Midway is in hanging around 5 or 6.

Thompson beat Midway-Minto by 3. I still believe Robinson and Schuster are the top one-two punch in the region but will take Thompson's guys 3 to 7 to be the difference. Thompson is tough defensively and will do what is necessary to compete - they won't let Midway be in a 70 point track meet. I don't think Midway-Minto gets enough out of the other guys to win this one.

HCV beats MayPort by 20+. HCV is too long, too good defensively, and has too much depth for MayPort to match up with well. HCV dominates downlow to really pull away.

Grafton beats Hatton-Northwood by 8 to 10. If Hatton comes out hot from outside I think this will be the best game of the night (if not Thompson Midway will be). Hatton has a great one-two punch but I don't think they have enough around it to beat Grafton. I think this game really comes down to which teams decides how the game will be played. If Hatton allows Grafton to play their game I don't see how Hatton wins.
defensewinsgames
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby BasketballMind » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:45 am

#1 North Border vs #4 Thompson (6:30)

#2 Hillsboro-Central Valley vs #3 Grafton (8:00)

Anyone that watched the Grafton/HN game last night I’m curious what you thought of the officiating. That was as poorly called at a region tournament game as I can remember. No consistency in how they made calls. Seems like after Albrecht got his third foul in the first half is when it got bad. 3 of the 5 called on Azure were absolutely ridiculous. He gets his 4th on a charge when the defender was completely in the circle. Grafton is a stronger team and may win that game regardless, but you have to give these kids a chance. I pity whatever fan bases get them tonight. If you’re gonna call a tight game, then call it tight on both ends from start to finish. Absolutely dreadful performance by those 3 last night.
BasketballMind
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:55 am

BasketballMind wrote: He gets his 4th on a charge when the defender was completely in the circle.


I didn't watch the game, but it only matters if a help side defender is inside the charge circle. The primary defender can be inside the circle and still draw a charge. An offensive fall can also be called on the post for dropping a shoulder on a post move instead of the typical charge play and doesn't matter where the defender is located with that circle. Again, didn't watch the game or see the play in question just wanted to give some info.
"There is only one thing in which a person can start at the top - digging a hole"
User avatar
ndlionsfan
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4088
Joined: Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:36 am
Location: Central ND

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:22 am

Azure was targeted Big Time....Big good lookin young man and the refs can't handle that...
I've seen this done year after year, after year to certain players (usually have that nice skin tone)
then the assistant Coach gives him a chest bump as he comes to the bench after fouling out?
Azure had every right to be talking to that Ref...

H-N wins the the game if they start #12 (they closed the lead every time he came off the bench) and leave him in the entire game and If Azure hadn't been targeted....
If you can’t excel with talent, triumph with effort.
winner-within
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4948
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby d_fense » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:41 am

BasketballMind wrote:#1 North Border vs #4 Thompson (6:30)

#2 Hillsboro-Central Valley vs #3 Grafton (8:00)

Anyone that watched the Grafton/HN game last night I’m curious what you thought of the officiating. That was as poorly called at a region tournament game as I can remember. No consistency in how they made calls. Seems like after Albrecht got his third foul in the first half is when it got bad. 3 of the 5 called on Azure were absolutely ridiculous. He gets his 4th on a charge when the defender was completely in the circle. Grafton is a stronger team and may win that game regardless, but you have to give these kids a chance. I pity whatever fan bases get them tonight. If you’re gonna call a tight game, then call it tight on both ends from start to finish. Absolutely dreadful performance by those 3 last night.


You asked for thoughts on the officiating. IMO it was ok. Not bad, not great. Poorest call I can recall was against Grafton. A travel was called very late on pass from near center court to left wing on the break. Clearly not a travel. Commentator on live stream went off on it a bit. Officials sometimes make calls when thing don’t look smooth or appear “different” that are not violations. That will not change.

Basketballmind, do not make a bet on the “completely in the circle” charge call. That was a good call and it wasn’t close. I didn’t rewind it last night as I thought it was correct, and I just double checked. Go to 1:01:09 of the stream. Defender is in legal position his heels are, I’d guess 6 and 8 inches outside the circle. I’d include a picture, but the stream really darkens up when you pause and doesn’t lighten up after waiting minutes.

I did rewind (I believe it was the 5 th on Azure) as I was looking elsewhere on the screen. It was a situation where he walked his defender up the lane and had him topside. Instead of posting there and giving a target, he flipped his right forearm up and dove to the low post. I didn’t think he created an advantage with the arm, but it wasn’t necessary. I can see where the baseline official, from his angle would call it. I don’t think he should have as he didn’t have a great angle, but it happens.

Officiating wise, this game wouldn’t be in my top 20 worst officiated regional tournament games.
d_fense
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 925
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:13 am
Location: Small town eastern ND

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby d_fense » Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:48 am

I’ll amend my post with one thing. Worst mistake of the night was not getting the sub into the game that was waiting at the scores table at the end of the second quarter on the made free throw. The announcer made it sound like player was waiting to check in, but it isn’t clear on the video as the player is out of the frame. I assume he was coming in for the coaches kid who subsequently picked up his third foul on the last Grafton possession.

That is on the officials and the clock operator.
d_fense
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 925
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 7:13 am
Location: Small town eastern ND

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby Flip » Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:27 pm

BasketballMind wrote:#1 North Border vs #4 Thompson (6:30)

#2 Hillsboro-Central Valley vs #3 Grafton (8:00)

Anyone that watched the Grafton/HN game last night I’m curious what you thought of the officiating. That was as poorly called at a region tournament game as I can remember. No consistency in how they made calls. Seems like after Albrecht got his third foul in the first half is when it got bad. 3 of the 5 called on Azure were absolutely ridiculous. He gets his 4th on a charge when the defender was completely in the circle. Grafton is a stronger team and may win that game regardless, but you have to give these kids a chance. I pity whatever fan bases get them tonight. If you’re gonna call a tight game, then call it tight on both ends from start to finish. Absolutely dreadful performance by those 3 last night.

For whatever reason, I can't upload pictures anymore on the forums. Always says, "It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image." It is the same method I have always used.

Anyway, you can pause the block/charge call and the defender's feet are clearly outside the restricted area. Unless there were multiple block/charge calls involving Azure.
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 5062
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby BasketballMind » Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:30 pm

Flip wrote:
BasketballMind wrote:#1 North Border vs #4 Thompson (6:30)

#2 Hillsboro-Central Valley vs #3 Grafton (8:00)

Anyone that watched the Grafton/HN game last night I’m curious what you thought of the officiating. That was as poorly called at a region tournament game as I can remember. No consistency in how they made calls. Seems like after Albrecht got his third foul in the first half is when it got bad. 3 of the 5 called on Azure were absolutely ridiculous. He gets his 4th on a charge when the defender was completely in the circle. Grafton is a stronger team and may win that game regardless, but you have to give these kids a chance. I pity whatever fan bases get them tonight. If you’re gonna call a tight game, then call it tight on both ends from start to finish. Absolutely dreadful performance by those 3 last night.

For whatever reason, I can't upload pictures anymore on the forums. Always says, "It was not possible to determine the dimensions of the image." It is the same method I have always used.

Anyway, you can pause the block/charge call and the defender's feet are clearly outside the restricted area. Unless there were multiple block/charge calls involving Azure.


I was coming here to correct myself. I went to rewatch and in real time it looked like the kid was in the circle, but he was absolutely outside of it. It happened around the 1:01:00 mark on the your live event stream
BasketballMind
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby defensewinsgames » Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:30 pm

A couple of thoughts regarding officiating since someone asked. No one who thinks they understand the charge circle and complains about it really does. You can take a charge inside of the circle! If you are the primary defender you can still take a charge inside of the arc - it only applies to secondary defenders so in this case had no bearing on it being a block or charge. Plus like has been decided afterword the defender wasn't even in the circle.

Second, looking at who officiated the regional tournament for Region 2 I'm not shocked last night was inconsistent. I'm not sure how they picked officials for the tournament this year but I did hear a couple coaches comment that they weren't asked about officials. Officiating is a tough job that I'm glad we have people willing to do because otherwise we couldn't play the games. I think officials get the short end of the stick way more than they should. That being said, there are still good officials, decent officials, and not so good officials. Which category an official falls into seems to have no bearing on who gets the regional tournaments. Last night I saw guys officiated that I would put in each of those categories. I was also shocked at how they put the crews together - I didn't think they were split very well. Every year I turn on a region tournament and there are at least two officials there that I go "how in the heck did they get a regional." The rumor I have heard (from officials) is it is a good ole boys club and some of the people who get it are chosen for their friends in high places or who they are on the good side of or struggle up to. I would like to believe that isn't the case but am not silly enough to actually believe that. Seems like it would be really simple to let the coaches pick regional officials just like they do senior athlete, coach of the year, and all region. Send out a survey and let them vote or have them vote at the coaches meeting. Would this totally fix the problem - maybe not - but it would make officials accountable to the teams they officiate for and I doubt coaches would pick lesser officials very frequently.

I didn't think last night's Grafton vs. HN game was well officiated. It was broken as heck with absolutely no flow to the game. There was a whistle on just about every possession down the stretch which isn't what you want out of a game like that. There were stretches it was allowed to be played very physically and then in the same quarter got called really tight and ticky tacky. I didn't think officiating decided the game though and thought the bad calls were pretty evenly distributed between the two teams. At the end of the day I think the better team won and earned the win - it is tough to win when you had a few big stretches of not scoring like Hatton did.
defensewinsgames
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby The Schwab » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:13 pm

During non-covid years the coaches are sent a ballot to vote for officials for post season play. These votes are compiled by the NDHSAA. If they NDHSAA actually goes by the data or not, I don't know the answer to that. There were no ballots sent out this season to vote for officials.
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4327
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby Sportsrube » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:36 pm

Does the NDHSAA or the NDOA have any rules about Regional Tournaments regarding if you officiate a Girl's Regional you cannot officiate a Boys Regional? I don't think they do, but with the shortage of officials it seems like getting officials for a District Tournament may be difficult but it shouldn't be at the Regional level. I also appreciate the job the officials do under difficult circumstances, but it is true that some officials are better than others, just like some coaches are better than others and some players are better than others. I have also heard from people who think that because some officials are certified to officiate college games that means they are better officials than those who are not which is a ridiculous statement to me.
Sportsrube
NDPreps Hall of Fame
 
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Sep 16, 2009 2:03 pm

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby The Schwab » Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:55 pm

Sportsrube wrote:Does the NDHSAA or the NDOA have any rules about Regional Tournaments regarding if you officiate a Girl's Regional you cannot officiate a Boys Regional? I don't think they do, but with the shortage of officials it seems like getting officials for a District Tournament may be difficult but it shouldn't be at the Regional level. I also appreciate the job the officials do under difficult circumstances, but it is true that some officials are better than others, just like some coaches are better than others and some players are better than others. I have also heard from people who think that because some officials are certified to officiate college games that means they are better officials than those who are not which is a ridiculous statement to me.


I believe that an official can do 2 post season tournaments. If an official is selected to ref the state tournament for that sport, they also must do the regional.
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4327
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby BasketballMind » Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:59 pm

defensewinsgames wrote: Every year I turn on a region tournament and there are at least two officials there that I go "how in the heck did they get a regional." The rumor I have heard (from officials) is it is a good ole boys club and some of the people who get it are chosen for their friends in high places or who they are on the good side of or struggle up to. I would like to believe that isn't the case but am not silly enough to actually believe that.



A good ole boys club? In North Dakota? Why I Never!

/S
BasketballMind
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby BasketballMind » Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:50 am

North Border 58, Thompson 28
Grafton 49, HCV 36

North Border looked like a state tournament team last night. They dominated that game from start to finish and what they've done well is playing better as the game goes on. They built a lead early and never looked back. The only thing that could get into their way is if they have any issues with foul trouble on Thursday. They had a little bit with Johnson last night, but the game was so far out of reach it didn't make a difference. To me that's the only thing that prevents them from going to state for the first time since 2007. They're playing so well it would take two of them to be in foul trouble the entire game to really make a difference. Grafton hasn't looked like the #2 team in the state this week and I will not be one bit surprised if they get beat on Thursday.
BasketballMind
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 597
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby defensewinsgames » Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:53 pm

I was rather disappointed in the two games last night. I thought both would be a lot more competitive than they ended up being. I thought there was quite a bit of balance across the top 4 and maybe even top 5 but that isn't how the tournament has played out which surprised me. Here is my breakdown of the championship game:

Advantages for North Border: Balance in scoring, size/length, inside game, offense/scoring, energy/emotion

Advantages for Grafton: Best player (Garza), depth, defense, patience/discipline, experience

Keys to win for North Border: Dominating down low/using their size, controlling tempo/pace of play, and getting meaningful contributions out of guys other than Stainbrook, Lee, and Cosley.

Keys to win for Grafton: Neutralizing post game/size of North Border, using their depth to get North Border tired or in foul trouble, and forcing the game to be played in the half court (offensively and defensively).

This should be a true coin flip game where both teams have an opportunity to win. The first meeting went North Border's way from start to finish. If Grafton wants a different result this time around they need to control how the game is played. I know Grafton is long and athletic and can run too but I think Grafton is superior in the offensive and defensive half court to North Border so should try and force the game to be played that way. North Border has an advantage inside with Johnson and Stainbrook if they are able to exploit it things will really open up outside for their guards. One team is almost all seniors and will certainly have a lot of retooling to do to be in this position next year, the other is young and should enter next season as the favorite in the region - should be a good battle. I will take Grafton to win by 2. I think Grafton learned a lot from the first time they played and their being a little deeper is the difference in this one. If North Border is hitting like they can from outside and stays out of foul trouble they will head to state.
defensewinsgames
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 876
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:26 am

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby heimer » Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:44 pm

Based on what I've seen in two games, North Border is the favorite. They have been balanced and superior in competition thus far, and their method of running the floor keeps them out of matchup issues.

They seem to be the complete package, and look like a team that is not just a state tournament team, but a title team.

Grafton's best player last night was Will Jiskra. An absolute beast on the offensive glass. But the offense struggled against perimeter size and a zone. They will see more of that from North Border, and North Border will not be the same offensive team as Hillsboro. I thought Hillsboro took themselves out of some possessions with some three-point shots too early, and their big men seemed to be surprisingly distant from the basket.
God is bigger than football.
heimer
NDPreps All-State
 
Posts: 976
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:11 pm
Location: Rupert's Land

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby winner-within » Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:59 pm

heimer wrote:Based on what I've seen in two games, North Border is the favorite. They have been balanced and superior in competition thus far, and their method of running the floor keeps them out of matchup issues.

They seem to be the complete package, and look like a team that is not just a state tournament team, but a title team.

Grafton's best player last night was Will Jiskra. An absolute beast on the offensive glass. But the offense struggled against perimeter size and a zone. They will see more of that from North Border, and North Border will not be the same offensive team as Hillsboro. I thought Hillsboro took themselves out of some possessions with some three-point shots too early, and their big men seemed to be surprisingly distant from the basket.


Spot on!

Note: NB #1 seed Region 2, one of Grafton's losses, received not one Vote in the Polls the entire Season (first time ever?)
If you can’t excel with talent, triumph with effort.
winner-within
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4948
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby Flip » Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:14 pm

winner-within wrote:
Note: NB #1 seed Region 2, one of Grafton's losses, received not one Vote in the Polls the entire Season (first time ever?)

NB is ranked 10th in the last poll.
Flip
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 5062
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:35 am

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby The Schwab » Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:36 pm

Flip wrote:
winner-within wrote:
Note: NB #1 seed Region 2, one of Grafton's losses, received not one Vote in the Polls the entire Season (first time ever?)

NB is ranked 10th in the last poll.


Received votes in polls 1, 6 and 11, were ranked 10th in poll 12 and 13
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4327
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby winner-within » Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:52 pm

I could only find up till Feb 8
If you can’t excel with talent, triumph with effort.
winner-within
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4948
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:08 am

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby The Schwab » Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:53 pm

winner-within wrote:I could only find up till Feb 8


KMAV does a good job of posting and listing an archive:

https://kmav.com/polls/boys-basketball
The Schwab
User avatar
The Schwab
NDPreps Legend
 
Posts: 4327
Joined: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:38 am
Location: The Peace Garden State

Re: Region 2 Scores, Discussion

Postby RedDirtFan » Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:02 pm

Excited about this championship game. North Border might be too much if their shots are falling at a decent clip--Grafton has the length to slow them down. Classic game of clashing styles. Grafton if it's close late, but if North Border can get some separation, they can run just about anybody out of the gym.
RedDirtFan
NDPreps Starter
 
Posts: 191
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:29 am

PreviousNext

Return to Boys

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests

cron