FWM vs. Enderlin

[mdk23]

As flip said, most coaches cringe when parents in the crowd yell Follow your shot! I had coaches teach that too, but spend time around the game beyond youth or high school and you quickly learn why it's bad advice. It makes you shoot unbalanced jumpers and depending on your position on the floor it completely exposes your team in transition defense. I also echo the behind the back and the between the legs dribble... they are advanced moves that when used at the right time can create passing or scoring opportunities. Doesn't automatically equate to showboating. Looking forward to these Enderlin games this week!

[packers21]

Only place you want to consider following a shot is a corner 3 and even then sometimes a coach won’t want you too. I chuckled at games when I hear someone yell this.

[Run4Fun2009]

Some very fun matchups over the Holiday Break
Monday
Langdon/Edmore/Munich vs. Shiloh (I believe this is at U of Jamestown as a BBB/GBB DH)
Enderlin @ Dickinson Trinity
Rugby @ Beulah

Tuesday
Enderlin @ Beulah
Four Winds-Minnewaukan @ Dickinson Trinity
Hillsboro-Central Valley @ Oak Grove
Cavalier @ Northern Cass
Central Cass @ New Rockford-Sheyenne
North Star @ Our Redeemer's
Dunseith @ Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood

Wednesday
Oak Grove @ Thompson
Shiloh Christian @ Velva

[lennylive]

As flip said, most coaches cringe when parents in the crowd yell Follow your shot! I had coaches teach that too, but spend time around the game beyond youth or high school and you quickly learn why it's bad advice. It makes you shoot unbalanced jumpers and depending on your position on the floor it completely exposes your team in transition defense. I also echo the behind the back and the between the legs dribble... they are advanced moves that when used at the right time can create passing or scoring opportunities. Doesn't automatically equate to showboating. Looking forward to these Enderlin games this week!

If ya stand outside with your hand in the air after shooting ...waiting for your shot to drop..and the rest of your team is standing around outside the perimeter. and only 1 guy is there to rebound.vs maybe 2 or 3.. .then your not going to get many offensive rebounds..IMO..

dribbling between your legs and behind your back is fine..if you can do it without getting the ball stolen from you..or ya bounce it off your own feet. I have watched MANY highschool athletes who THINK they are good enough to be a globetrotter.. only a few are successful .
Ball control can be done without showboating..this goes to ANY and all players.

[ND Sports Fan]

Goodness...where did this Enderlin hate come from?? Never thought I’d say this but is Enderlin the new Oak Grove?!?

Run, I don't believe there to be Enderlin hate, there has been discussion the past couple of years about their style of play and what appears to be not reaching their potential. For a school the of Enderlin to get this type of once in a generation roster, I won't even go as far as talent, as I know opinions vary on the talent level. (Not my belief, but I've heard others diminish their talent). Are they similar to the May-Port teams in the late 90's from a generational talent perspective?

I think this so-called "hate" is more about a wonderment of how this team is not more dominant. Frustration over watching what basketball has become when a 6'10" high school player spends more time 20 feet from the basket than 3 feet. It go to show, in basketball, you need more than height. There needs to be chemistry, putting kids in the right position to succeed, highest and best use, many factors. Has putting Joe in a position to showcase his overall game and get him recruited at a Power-5 level, hurt the overall team success? Then again, remember, they lost last year in the Region 1 tournament, only 3 losses all year, when their impact players were freshman and sophomores. That is asking a lot. Lets see how this team does the this year and next when they are lead by upperclassmen rather than underclassmen.

I am not an Enderlin apologist. I have many of the same questions. For the record, FW is no slouch. There is no shame in losing to that team.

[bingobangobongo]

Goodness...where did this Enderlin hate come from?? Never thought I’d say this but is Enderlin the new Oak Grove?!?

Run, I don't believe there to be Enderlin hate, there has been discussion the past couple of years about their style of play and what appears to be not reaching their potential. For a school the of Enderlin to get this type of once in a generation roster, I won't even go as far as talent, as I know opinions vary on the talent level. (Not my belief, but I've heard others diminish their talent). Are they similar to the May-Port teams in the late 90's from a generational talent perspective?

I think this so-called "hate" is more about a wonderment of how this team is not more dominant. Frustration over watching what basketball has become when a 6'10" high school player spends more time 20 feet from the basket than 3 feet. It go to show, in basketball, you need more than height. There needs to be chemistry, putting kids in the right position to succeed, highest and best use, many factors. Has putting Joe in a position to showcase his overall game and get him recruited at a Power-5 level, hurt the overall team success? Then again, remember, they lost last year in the Region 1 tournament, only 3 losses all year, when their impact players were freshman and sophomores. That is asking a lot. Lets see how this team does the this year and next when they are lead by upperclassmen rather than underclassmen.

I am not an Enderlin apologist. I have many of the same questions. For the record, FW is no slouch. There is no shame in losing to that team.

This post nails my thoughts on Enderlin. It is definitely not "hate". It is shock. And yes, I think the way the 6'10" and 6'8" brothers have been used is more about showing college scouts sumthin vs using them to the maximum benefit of the team.

[mdk23]

Fellas, the game has evolved. Turn on your TVs and watch any basketball at all. Kids over 6'2" are allowed to shoot 3s now. What is the coach's responsibility? To win? To help kids play at the next level? I'd say both. 2nd guess coaching decisions all you want but they are 4-1 with the toughest schedule in the state and no one talks about their wins.

[ND Sports Fan]

Fellas, the game has evolved. Turn on your TVs and watch any basketball at all. Kids over 6'2" are allowed to shoot 3s now. What is the coach's responsibility? To win? To help kids play at the next level? I'd say both. 2nd guess coaching decisions all you want but they are 4-1 with the toughest schedule in the state and no one talks about their wins.

No 2nd guessing here, I stated in my post, losing to FW is no shame, and I will add, their wins against state ranked teams are quality wins. I was simply pointing out that I don't believe there is Enderlin "hate", it is just curiosity given their talent. I agree the game has changed, whether it is for the better or not is debateable, but in ND Class B basketball, when you line up 6'8" and 6'10", in the front court, with athleticism and high basketball IQ, there is an expectation of dominance, which I believe the state will see over this year and next. This team will only improve as all of their athletes come of age. That said, last year also showed their ability to get beat in what was an oddity of basketball in the Region 1 tournament. I am not sure a year older up and down that roster, that the same result is possible. It is going to be fun to watch.

[classB4ever]

Goodness...where did this Enderlin hate come from?? Never thought I’d say this but is Enderlin the new Oak Grove?!?

Run, I don't believe there to be Enderlin hate, there has been discussion the past couple of years about their style of play and what appears to be not reaching their potential. For a school the of Enderlin to get this type of once in a generation roster, I won't even go as far as talent, as I know opinions vary on the talent level. (Not my belief, but I've heard others diminish their talent). Are they similar to the May-Port teams in the late 90's from a generational talent perspective?

I think this so-called "hate" is more about a wonderment of how this team is not more dominant. Frustration over watching what basketball has become when a 6'10" high school player spends more time 20 feet from the basket than 3 feet. It go to show, in basketball, you need more than height. There needs to be chemistry, putting kids in the right position to succeed, highest and best use, many factors. Has putting Joe in a position to showcase his overall game and get him recruited at a Power-5 level, hurt the overall team success? Then again, remember, they lost last year in the Region 1 tournament, only 3 losses all year, when their impact players were freshman and sophomores. That is asking a lot. Lets see how this team does the this year and next when they are lead by upperclassmen rather than underclassmen.

I am not an Enderlin apologist. I have many of the same questions. For the record, FW is no slouch. There is no shame in losing to that team.

Think this is a pretty good take. FW-M has been a top 10 team for over a decade. Year in and year out they are in the mix. They have earned their accolades. IMHO, I think this is more of the underlying factor of this discussion. Everyone knew a couple of years ago Enderlin would be in this position. Now they have to go out and earn respect by taking the next step. They have to start beating some of these perennial powerhouses to do that. They have to dominate the games they should win and then start winning the games that are toss ups. I think the entire discussion will change once that starts happening. Have a feeling this will start happening as these young guys start coming of age. 2 cents.
(ND Sports Fan posted above at same time this was written. Guess we agree)

[wnrwnrckndnr]

when ya turn the ball over 32 times..you will NEVER win ...period. Cut those down to 16 turnovers and ya got a BARN BURNER... IN FACT ,,,Enderlin would have won that game.

Four Winds has been and always will be a Run ya ragged/press type of team... they roll 4 guys off the bench and keep the legs fresh.
I watched the game today... Eagles handled the storm pretty good 1st half only down by 6 at half ..2nd half had the lead ..it changed a few times.... they just fell flat the later in 2nd half..and 4 Winds kept the pedal to the floor...no let up... had a 3 on 1 a few times even. Statistically it was a close game. Eagles 1 less rebound than 4 winds.(which shouldv never happened given size advantage). 4 winds had 10 more steals than Enderlin. Eagles shot 54% from 2pt land...40% from 3 pt land and 72% from the line.. that is respectable.
Eagles need to figure out how to move through a press better than what they did... waaay to many bad passes ...any team that watched that game will have the same plan, cause havoc by pressing...especially quick teams.
1 other thing.... if ya live by the 3... you can die by the 3... and when the BIGS are outside cannin up 3s.. and no one inside getting rebounds... your giving up that advantage. It might work against a weak team, but its not going to work against a Top 10 team, for the most part.
Eagles will Rebound and learn from this game, a humbling experience early on is a good wakeup call. I have no doubt Kraft will have those boys whipped into shape by the end of the season going into Regionals.

Eagles problem is in their heads! If they don't mentally get into the game they aren't going to win anything. They won't even find themselves getting out of Region 1 and it will be the same ending as last year. Stop crying to the refs, stop trying to showboat, stop trying to dunk on every possession. You could play this game ten times and the Eagles will lose every single one of them. Fact!

Would be curious to get GOPACKGO's take on this after the last couple games. Enderlin beat Dickinson Trinity on their home court and Four Winds didn't. That being said saying Enderlin wouldn't beat Four Winds is a completely false statement. I bet Four Winds would have a tough battle against Enderlin on Enderlins home court.

[balla45]

I have a lot of thoughts on just various posts that I have read on this forum.

Enderlin did have an early exit last season, which is not the most shocking thing, although it is surprising, to happen to a team that relies on sophomores and a freshman to do their heavy hitting.

I disagree with the thought that Coach Kraft is too focused on the recruitment of some of his players to the extent that it hurts their team. I think we forget that if the twins and Bartholomay did not have the ability to shoot and put the ball on the floor, their team would be significantly easier to guard as they would just have 3 back to the basket bigs and they would get zoned constantly. I also want to take nothing away from any other player on their team, but in all reality, Joe is probably their best or second best ball handler and perimeter player anyway, and they do have a lot of size, so it would not seem super logical, to me, to just put him on the block. If he was playing with Trey Brandt and Lucas Schumacher, I would maybe have a different opinion as his services on the perimeter would not be the same necessity that they are for the team he is currently playing for. Gus Hurlburt has hit 4 and 5 perimeter shots in some of their most recent games; I feel it would be a disservice to remove this component from a team.

There are several ways to coach basketball and I enjoy watching the freedom so many coaches give their players to make plays and grow as players.
Beulah does a great job in getting Trey Brandt in positions to be successful as the success of their team will come and go with him.
Four Winds has such a nice balance and pressure in the way that they play and the ball moves. Notice that we do not see comments about Four Winds needing to get Bronson Walter more touches and shots and what not. I am sure they could be very successful playing completely through him, but their style of play has been proven successful so it is unquestioned, which it should be.
I would love to see Coach Kraft get that same level of respect afforded to other coaches who have successful teams. For the record, I have had maybe 3 conversations with him in my lifetime and have little to no personal bias for or against him, I just think he is unfairly questioned about a coaching philosophy that has proven to be successful. There are certain stressors that come with coaching multiple upper level players at once and I think he does a nice job in maximizing their unique skillsets and will have that opinion if he does not win a championship with them at all.

If Four Winds wins a championship this season, which is incredibly possible, I do not think that does anything to the legacy of a Trey Brandt or of the Hurlburt twins. Four Winds is really good. Same with Trinity. Same with a few others.


I think Joe is a complete generational talent, and Gus very well could get there. I do not want to undervalue winning a state championship in anyway. That said, our most recent upper level bigs in North Dakota are Brian Qvale, who is enjoying a very successful decade long professional basketball playing career, and Austin Dufault, who enjoyed a 6 year professional basketball playing career and now works for the Detroit Pistons. They won 0 state titles. They still have some very impressive basketball careers.

One state away, Jalen Suggs, who is likely a lottery pick, and Chet Holmgren, who is also likely a lottery pick and is ranked as the #1 overall player in the country, playing for Minnehaha, did not go undefeated in Minnesota. They also had several other high level players on their team who are going to play Division 1 basketball.

I think we should temper expectations a bit and just be thrilled we are getting so many quality match ups when a few weeks ago it seemed very possible we would not even have basketball.