North Dakota Preps

So I was at the Grand Am this weekend and it was the first time I have not coached a team in many years.
I was sitting n the crowd. All I can say is there was not a game that I was not mortified by the parents in the crowds. Yelling at officials, yelling at their own kid to shoot, or mad about how another kid was playing. Talking to other kids on other teams.... yelling during free throws....I watched the Championship game of the 5th Grade boys.... Winn. crowd was horrible. Jumping out of their seats, cheering and yelling at the other team when a mistake was made. A kid got fouled and had a chance to tie the game. the crowd was yelling and screaming for him to miss... then he did and they went crazy.
I was a Catholic School group of parents that yelled travel or 3 seconds or carry or in the middle of foul shot right when the kid was shooting..... Rebound ... box out.... LOUD. Two guys swore at the official saying that is a _____ _____ travel. What the H _ _ _ . Do your Job....
Parents in the stands yelling at each other.... challenging them to go outside and fight.... really?
I understand some of this stuff at the high school level or a state tournament but not of 7-14 old kids.

It is crazy! I have a child that played travel ball and had to get a parent kicked out for the things that was said to her. She was 10 years old.
I saw another parent/coach yell at a 8 or 9 year old boy from the opposing team until he cried. Then the boys parent told him to apologize to his kid for yelling at him and the opposing coach wanted to fight the parent outside!
I try to teach my kids as they play ignore other parents/coaches and only worry about your coach/parents. Don't question calls being disrespectful, ask the ref respectfully what they saw to help you benefit.

I really would like to tell parents of the young ages, they are not getting scholarships or contracts for this age! Relax let them play and learn the game.

I agree that it's bordering on an epidemic. I also feel the same rules need to be applied when talking about high school contests as well, because they are just kids.

Interesting topic.
I coached my first bit of travel ball this spring, including the Grand Am and never witnessed anything as horrific as previously described. The worst thing I witnessed was watching a 5th grade girls game a team was ahead by 17 points with less than one minute left and pressing. When I saw this I pulled out the rules to see if that was even within the rules because most tournaments have rules forbidding stuff like that. Sure enough the rules said you could press as long as the game was within 20 points. We ended up playing that team. Their two coaches complained about every call and once there was 2 minutes left they started pressing us. They had a 7 point lead and ended up winning by 13, including a buzzer beater 3 pointer that I'm sure their coaches just loved.

Flip wrote:Interesting topic.
I coached my first bit of travel ball this spring, including the Grand Am and never witnessed anything as horrific as previously described. The worst thing I witnessed was watching a 5th grade girls game a team was ahead by 17 points with less than one minute left and pressing. When I saw this I pulled out the rules to see if that was even within the rules because most tournaments have rules forbidding stuff like that. Sure enough the rules said you could press as long as the game was within 20 points. We ended up playing that team. Their two coaches complained about every call and once there was 2 minutes left they started pressing us. They had a 7 point lead and ended up winning by 13, including a buzzer beater 3 pointer that I'm sure their coaches just loved.

I have a good idea which team you are talking about but won't say who it is. If it is not them, then there are 2 of them.

maddog1971 wrote:So I was at the Grand Am this weekend and it was the first time I have not coached a team in many years.
I was sitting n the crowd. All I can say is there was not a game that I was not mortified by the parents in the crowds. Yelling at officials, yelling at their own kid to shoot, or mad about how another kid was playing. Talking to other kids on other teams.... yelling during free throws....I watched the Championship game of the 5th Grade boys.... Winn. crowd was horrible. Jumping out of their seats, cheering and yelling at the other team when a mistake was made. A kid got fouled and had a chance to tie the game. the crowd was yelling and screaming for him to miss... then he did and they went crazy.
I was a Catholic School group of parents that yelled travel or 3 seconds or carry or in the middle of foul shot right when the kid was shooting..... Rebound ... box out.... LOUD. Two guys swore at the official saying that is a _____ _____ travel. What the H _ _ _ . Do your Job....
Parents in the stands yelling at each other.... challenging them to go outside and fight.... really?
I understand some of this stuff at the high school level or a state tournament but not of 7-14 old kids.

I don't understand this stuff at any level. Way too many parents who are trying to relive their youth thru their kids. Way too many parents who think their little darling is going to be the next big thing and get a scholarship to their favorite University. Way too many parents who think they know more about basketball (or any sport) than they really do. "Helicopter" parents are one of the biggest reasons coaches leave coaching or young people do not want to go into coaching. Cheer for your kid, support your kid, but let coaches coach and let your kid learn to deal with it when things don't go their way, your kid will be much better off in the long run.

I always hear the "reliving thru your kid thing" when in fact I have visited with some of the noisiest moms and dads after the games and they never even played basketball....so I know it isn't that.......then you hear "oh, they think their kid will play at college" and the same people are going around saying "there is nobody in this tournament that will ever play at college level" and if they kept track (which they don't because they're on their pontoon, sippin cold ones) they would realize, there are many doing "the next level thing" somewhere, someplace....

its not any of the above....what it is, is anger, its resentment of their childhood, their relationships, their Life, everybody wants to be their kids friend and not their parent.......its complete "arrogance, jealousy, sometimes racial and "I have to much money" .......plus they're all hungover and noise bothers them...

so hows that for an evaluation!

on another note.......anybody calling anybody out side should be reported to the Law and charges brought against them!
there is a saying I hear often in reference to fighting "it isn't like the old days when you could haul off and punch somebody"......thats correct! it isn't and it shouldn't be....

Trust me I have been a youth sports for 15 years in different sports .... I talk to Ref's when I coach but never as a parent. Part of the job to learn how the game is being called. To understand what the officials are seeing.
I have said "Ohhhhh NO Way" or things like that as a parent but I think that is just a natural reaction. In youth sports Ref's just try to keep the games moving in a fair way. They are not going to call every travel or every hand check... they other thing is if you are yelling at them all the time... you will not get the calls.... the calls will go against you for sure.

Many fair points have been brought up. I will play the "parent's advocate."

1. These tournaments are expensive (travel, hotel, food, entry, etc.), is it too much to ask that the refs hustle to keep up with plays? Many times 2 refs are officiating these games and they never leave the ends of the court.
2. Most parents are there to watch their kids/team play. Not to watch half court shots or attempted dunks during dead balls.
3. Refs are suppose to keep their whistle in their mouth so an infraction can be whistled shortly after the infraction, not 5 seconds later when they finally find their whistle and the kid has no idea what happened.
4. If the teams are not there on time, they generally have to forfeit. Why should teams have to wait for officials time and time again?
5. The games are about the kids, not the refs. Be consistent and enthusiastic about being there and you would be surprised about how many of these complaints upthread would go away.
6. Know the rules of the tournament. Pressing, timeouts, etc. This will save a lot of problems.

Just having a little fun. Use to be a parent that got on the refs a little. It's something we grow out of. The bigger problem is the mob mentality. One parent starts and then more join in. I learned to go sit alone just to enjoy the game. Also helps when you know the rules as a parent. Strongly urge parents to spend some time learning/studying up to date rule books.

From the stance of unprofessional referees: Yes they should be held accountable and work hard. Parents/Kids pay a lot of money to attend travel tournaments, therefore, they should have the pleasure of working with professional people.

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:Many fair points have been brought up. I will play the "parent's advocate."

1. These tournaments are expensive (travel, hotel, food, entry, etc.), is it too much to ask that the refs hustle to keep up with plays? Many times 2 refs are officiating these games and they never leave the ends of the court.
2. Most parents are there to watch their kids/team play. Not to watch half court shots or attempted dunks during dead balls.
3. Refs are suppose to keep their whistle in their mouth so an infraction can be whistled shortly after the infraction, not 5 seconds later when they finally find their whistle and the kid has no idea what happened.
4. If the teams are not there on time, they generally have to forfeit. Why should teams have to wait for officials time and time again?
5. The games are about the kids, not the refs. Be consistent and enthusiastic about being there and you would be surprised about how many of these complaints upthread would go away.
6. Know the rules of the tournament. Pressing, timeouts, etc. This will save a lot of problems.

Just having a little fun. Use to be a parent that got on the refs a little. It's something we grow out of. The bigger problem is the mob mentality. One parent starts and then more join in. I learned to go sit alone just to enjoy the game. Also helps when you know the rules as a parent. Strongly urge parents to spend some time learning/studying up to date rule books.

For $20 a game, it is hard to find respectable officials to work these types of games. So, you get what you pay for. Sometimes you get good ones but most times you don't. Parents should know what the are getting into when they sign up. I would suggest that parents spend their money on individual skills camps, which are getting harder to find. There is more money to be made with team camps and AAU ball. This AAU ball stuff is garbage.

Bisonfan18 - you are so right on AAU ball. I have had two D2 coaches tell me how much they hate AAU ball. They go to the tournaments for recruiting purposes, but they both said they spend the 1st half of the players freshman season "unteaching" the bad habits they learn from AAU ball or teaching them fundamentals they never learned. My son went to individual and team camps run by both of these coaches and they really couldn't say much positive about AAU ball other than it gets you noticed by college coaches.

Sportsrube wrote:Bisonfan18 - you are so right on AAU ball. I have had two D2 coaches tell me how much they hate AAU ball. They go to the tournaments for recruiting purposes, but they both said they spend the 1st half of the players freshman season "unteaching" the bad habits they learn from AAU ball or teaching them fundamentals they never learned. My son went to individual and team camps run by both of these coaches and they really couldn't say much positive about AAU ball other than it gets you noticed by college coaches.

Great points. However, maybe college coaches should go to the gym during the winter and actually do some recruiting instead of relying on the AAU circuit. Seems hypocritical to criticize the only method coaches use to recruit any more. Of course kids are going to gun instead of playing good team basketball because they know they have to make an impression.

The Schwab wrote:From the stance of unprofessional referees: Yes they should be held accountable and work hard. Parents/Kids pay a lot of money to attend travel tournaments, therefore, they should have the pleasure of working with professional people.

Most of these Ref's are volunteers in smaller towns. Ask what type of officials will be there.
Trust me, I have gotten into it as a coach but let the coaches to that and not the parents. When you complain the whole game as a parent the calls will go against you.

I had a game we were up by two with 10 seconds. The other team had the ball after a timeout. They took the ball out... the Ref across the court was not paying attention... the team threw the ball in... went over every ones head and hit the ref in the back because he was not even watching the game. He gave the ball to them. The other ref said.... well that is his call???? They got the ball and shot a half court shot and we lost by 1.

I've reffed many games, I've coached in the Grand am multiple times.......it is not hard to tell when a ref is leaning towards a team...I didn't do that...but thats basketball, that is literally part of basketball, always has been always will be, but I think it has escalated as of late, simply because of 1,000 tournaments outside of school ball, hence, "Its an officials world"...its like this year had Cavalier won the game vs Grafton opening night of Regions they would have played HCV in the semi's...which team would have had the lean towards them?? I'm totally fine with it..... there is nothing one can do anyways...defending champs? they have a familiar name on team? rich heritage in Class B Bball from AD to Coach to fans? .........It does Suk when a player doesn't even care if they move on knowing whats in store with the Officials though (was expressed)....I remember those days too! but I still gave it my all!....it make you a better person if you do...adversity never hurt anybody unless you let it...in life and in sports....

the disgruntle fan/parent thing?....may favorite is when one hollers about a call and then the other teams fan/parent hollers about another call and the one that hollered about the call gets mad at the one that just hollered about the call.....is there a definition for that scenario?...

winner-within wrote:I've reffed many games, I've coached in the Grand am multiple times.......it is not hard to tell when a ref is leaning towards a team...I didn't do that...but thats basketball, that is literally part of basketball, always has been always will be, but I think it has escalated as of late, simply because of 1,000 tournaments outside of school ball, hence, "Its an officials world"...its like this year had Cavalier won the game vs Grafton opening night of Regions they would have played HCV in the semi's...which team would have had the lean towards them?? I'm totally fine with it..... there is nothing one can do anyways...defending champs? they have a familiar name on team? rich heritage in Class B Bball from AD to Coach to fans? .........It does Suk when a player doesn't even care if they move on knowing whats in store with the Officials though (was expressed)....I remember those days too! but I still gave it my all!....it make you a better person if you do...adversity never hurt anybody unless you let it...in life and in sports....

the disgruntle fan/parent thing?....may favorite is when one hollers about a call and then the other teams fan/parent hollers about another call and the one that hollered about the call gets mad at the one that just hollered about the call.....is there a definition for that scenario?...

Yep, its called being a hypocrite! (or an idiot)

winner-within wrote:I've reffed many games, I've coached in the Grand am multiple times.......it is not hard to tell when a ref is leaning towards a team...I didn't do that...but thats basketball, that is literally part of basketball, always has been always will be, but I think it has escalated as of late, simply because of 1,000 tournaments outside of school ball, hence, "Its an officials world"...its like this year had Cavalier won the game vs Grafton opening night of Regions they would have played HCV in the semi's...which team would have had the lean towards them?? I'm totally fine with it..... there is nothing one can do anyways...defending champs? they have a familiar name on team? rich heritage in Class B Bball from AD to Coach to fans? .........It does Suk when a player doesn't even care if they move on knowing whats in store with the Officials though (was expressed)....I remember those days too! but I still gave it my all!....it make you a better person if you do...adversity never hurt anybody unless you let it...in life and in sports....

the disgruntle fan/parent thing?....may favorite is when one hollers about a call and then the other teams fan/parent hollers about another call and the one that hollered about the call gets mad at the one that just hollered about the call.....is there a definition for that scenario?...

Wow - unreal.

Flying Wallenda wrote:

winner-within wrote:I've reffed many games, I've coached in the Grand am multiple times.......it is not hard to tell when a ref is leaning towards a team...I didn't do that...but thats basketball, that is literally part of basketball, always has been always will be, but I think it has escalated as of late, simply because of 1,000 tournaments outside of school ball, hence, "Its an officials world"...its like this year had Cavalier won the game vs Grafton opening night of Regions they would have played HCV in the semi's...which team would have had the lean towards them?? I'm totally fine with it..... there is nothing one can do anyways...defending champs? they have a familiar name on team? rich heritage in Class B Bball from AD to Coach to fans? .........It does Suk when a player doesn't even care if they move on knowing whats in store with the Officials though (was expressed)....I remember those days too! but I still gave it my all!....it make you a better person if you do...adversity never hurt anybody unless you let it...in life and in sports....

the disgruntle fan/parent thing?....may favorite is when one hollers about a call and then the other teams fan/parent hollers about another call and the one that hollered about the call gets mad at the one that just hollered about the call.....is there a definition for that scenario?...

Wow - unreal.

you like that one?

winner-within wrote:

Flying Wallenda wrote:

winner-within wrote:I've reffed many games, I've coached in the Grand am multiple times.......it is not hard to tell when a ref is leaning towards a team...I didn't do that...but thats basketball, that is literally part of basketball, always has been always will be, but I think it has escalated as of late, simply because of 1,000 tournaments outside of school ball, hence, "Its an officials world"...its like this year had Cavalier won the game vs Grafton opening night of Regions they would have played HCV in the semi's...which team would have had the lean towards them?? I'm totally fine with it..... there is nothing one can do anyways...defending champs? they have a familiar name on team? rich heritage in Class B Bball from AD to Coach to fans? .........It does Suk when a player doesn't even care if they move on knowing whats in store with the Officials though (was expressed)....I remember those days too! but I still gave it my all!....it make you a better person if you do...adversity never hurt anybody unless you let it...in life and in sports....

the disgruntle fan/parent thing?....may favorite is when one hollers about a call and then the other teams fan/parent hollers about another call and the one that hollered about the call gets mad at the one that just hollered about the call.....is there a definition for that scenario?...

Wow - unreal.

you like that one?

No

Flying Wallenda wrote:

winner-within wrote:

Flying Wallenda wrote:

winner-within wrote:I've reffed many games, I've coached in the Grand am multiple times.......it is not hard to tell when a ref is leaning towards a team...I didn't do that...but thats basketball, that is literally part of basketball, always has been always will be, but I think it has escalated as of late, simply because of 1,000 tournaments outside of school ball, hence, "Its an officials world"...its like this year had Cavalier won the game vs Grafton opening night of Regions they would have played HCV in the semi's...which team would have had the lean towards them?? I'm totally fine with it..... there is nothing one can do anyways...defending champs? they have a familiar name on team? rich heritage in Class B Bball from AD to Coach to fans? .........It does Suk when a player doesn't even care if they move on knowing whats in store with the Officials though (was expressed)....I remember those days too! but I still gave it my all!....it make you a better person if you do...adversity never hurt anybody unless you let it...in life and in sports....

the disgruntle fan/parent thing?....may favorite is when one hollers about a call and then the other teams fan/parent hollers about another call and the one that hollered about the call gets mad at the one that just hollered about the call.....is there a definition for that scenario?...

Wow - unreal.

you like that one?

No

as a realist I believe its one of my better pieces.....sugar coating is for the Socially Correct

Flying Wallenda wrote:Wow - unreal.

The short version. "Refs are dishonest people that cheat kids. Not me though, I was fair."

The reason you can not get officials is because of parents yelling at every call an official makes. Nobody wants to put up with it. Enjoy the game parents. Yelling at officials will always go against you in the long run.

Flip wrote:

Flying Wallenda wrote:Wow - unreal.

The short version. "Refs are dishonest people that cheat kids. Not me though, I was fair."

I don't have short versions......"leaning" isn't dishonest or cheating, its attitude and personality, might even be kissing up....don't put words in my mouth Dup..

short version is "Wow - unreal" intended to smear a post.....you honestly think I write this stuff for nothing?

It seems that the purpose of the original was to imply that teams playing in the regional tournament didn't care if they won the game or not because they would have to face a team in the semi-finals that would have an unfair advantage with the refs. If I'm wrong I apologize.

Edit: I'm talking about the post from Winner-Within, not the start of the topic.

The irony is that the title of this post is ‘Parents need to relax’ and yet what shows up within the topic