How many Class B teams have never been to the state tourney?

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How many Class B teams have never been to the state tourney?

Postby redbeard23 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 10:11 pm

I know Thompson has never been but my buddy told me he thinks there are about five teams total that have never been.

Does anyone know for sure how many teams haven't been to the state tourney?
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby Flip » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:27 pm

Wishek never has. Does that count?
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:29 pm

redbeard23 wrote:I know Thompson has never been but my buddy told me he thinks there are about five teams total that have never been.

Does anyone know for sure how many teams haven't been to the state tourney?


Are we asking of the current Class B teams..or before coops started, etc.?
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby redbeard23 » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:32 pm

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
redbeard23 wrote:I know Thompson has never been but my buddy told me he thinks there are about five teams total that have never been.

Does anyone know for sure how many teams haven't been to the state tourney?


Are we asking of the current Class B teams..or before coops started, etc.?


Current Class B teams
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby theman » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:00 am

I believe White Shield hasn't. Last time they made it was in Elbowwoods.
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:47 am

redbeard23 wrote:
Run4Fun2009 wrote:
redbeard23 wrote:I know Thompson has never been but my buddy told me he thinks there are about five teams total that have never been.

Does anyone know for sure how many teams haven't been to the state tourney?


Are we asking of the current Class B teams..or before coops started, etc.?


Current Class B teams


Well then there are some current coops that haven't but some of their schools when they were separate did.
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby B Historian » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:35 pm

These schools have never been to state in any form:

Thompson
Tioga
Solen
Velva
Nedrose
South Prairie

These schools have never been to the Class B tournament but have played in the Class C tournament:

Maple Valley (Oriska, Tower City and Buffalo have all participated. Tower City also won the single class tournament in 1915)
Alexander
North Shore (Makoti in Class C)

White Shield has never been to state but this school basically mirrors Elbowoods, which participated in several state tournaments prior to be flooded by the Garrison Dam.

Neither school in the Burke Central/Bowbells coop has been to the State B. However, Columbus and Portal both played in the Class B tournament prior to consolidating with Burke Central. Bowbells played in three single class state tournaments in the 20's.
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby B-oldtimer » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:28 am

I was looking at region 4 members it looks to me from thread past state champions that Warwick has never been to state tournament. All the rest in region 4 have been to state unless you count new coops formed but coop members have been to state. Region 2 Thompson hasn't gone to state tournament and several of the coops haven't gone but at least one of the participants of coops have gone on their own. If you went back in history there were lots of schools that didn't make it to state tournament. By the time you get back to 70's it was difficult to make the state tournament because of the numbers of schools and until late 70's all the tournaments were you had to win to advance to get to next level. I can remember where you had district tournaments where some districts had nine teams so you had just play in game to get into 8 man districts which were single elimination tournaments. Then regionals were 4 team tournament which you had to win. Also there was no seating in the regional tournaments just set up by rotation of districts playing each other. I can remember several times teams that were highly rated in the state didn't even make it out their districts like Langdon just before they went Class A they were rated number one in the state got beat in the district tournament.
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby Flying Wallenda » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:06 am

B-oldtimer wrote:I was looking at region 4 members it looks to me from thread past state champions that Warwick has never been to state tournament. All the rest in region 4 have been to state unless you count new coops formed but coop members have been to state. Region 2 Thompson hasn't gone to state tournament and several of the coops haven't gone but at least one of the participants of coops have gone on their own. If you went back in history there were lots of schools that didn't make it to state tournament. By the time you get back to 70's it was difficult to make the state tournament because of the numbers of schools and until late 70's all the tournaments were you had to win to advance to get to next level. I can remember where you had district tournaments where some districts had nine teams so you had just play in game to get into 8 man districts which were single elimination tournaments. Then regionals were 4 team tournament which you had to win. Also there was no seating in the regional tournaments just set up by rotation of districts playing each other. I can remember several times teams that were highly rated in the state didn't even make it out their districts like Langdon just before they went Class A they were rated number one in the state got beat in the district tournament.


Warwick went to state in 1989 and 1996.
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby ndlionsfan » Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:18 am

B Historian wrote:These schools have never been to state in any form:

Thompson
Tioga
Solen
Velva
Nedrose
South Prairie

These schools have never been to the Class B tournament but have played in the Class C tournament:

Maple Valley (Oriska, Tower City and Buffalo have all participated. Tower City also won the single class tournament in 1915)
Alexander
North Shore (Makoti in Class C)

White Shield has never been to state but this school basically mirrors Elbowoods, which participated in several state tournaments prior to be flooded by the Garrison Dam.

Neither school in the Burke Central/Bowbells coop has been to the State B. However, Columbus and Portal both played in the Class B tournament prior to consolidating with Burke Central. Bowbells played in three single class state tournaments in the 20's.


Surprised Velva has never made it. Hard to answer a question like this with all the schools cooped now or closed schools that have been absorbed by others. For instance, Finley-Sharon-Hope-Page. Don't believe Finley ever made it, but Sharon did before it closed in the 70s. Also, not sure if Hope ever went, but Page had a few good teams that went to state.
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby B Historian » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:16 am

B-oldtimer wrote:I was looking at region 4 members it looks to me from thread past state champions that Warwick has never been to state tournament. All the rest in region 4 have been to state unless you count new coops formed but coop members have been to state. Region 2 Thompson hasn't gone to state tournament and several of the coops haven't gone but at least one of the participants of coops have gone on their own. If you went back in history there were lots of schools that didn't make it to state tournament. By the time you get back to 70's it was difficult to make the state tournament because of the numbers of schools and until late 70's all the tournaments were you had to win to advance to get to next level. I can remember where you had district tournaments where some districts had nine teams so you had just play in game to get into 8 man districts which were single elimination tournaments. Then regionals were 4 team tournament which you had to win. Also there was no seating in the regional tournaments just set up by rotation of districts playing each other. I can remember several times teams that were highly rated in the state didn't even make it out their districts like Langdon just before they went Class A they were rated number one in the state got beat in the district tournament.


Langdon was ranked 2nd in the state in 1970 when the Cardinals lost the district championship game to Nekoma and failed to advance to the regional tournament. However, Langdon had been to state three state years from 1966-68.

There are some great stories from this era. From 1967-70 Cathay lost just 6 regular season games, including a 20-0 record in 1969. However, Cathay could not get by New Rockford in the district tournament losing three straight years to the Rockets from 67-69, twice in doubt OT. However, in 1970 Cathay knocked off top-ranked New Rockford at the end of the regular season and again in the district championship game, 55-53. The school advanced to the region championship game before losing to Dunsieth, finishing the year 22-3.

The first year after the elimination of Class C (63-64) there were 281 teams in Class B, an average of almost 9 teams per district. There were five districts that had 11 teams in them. It was definitely a different era and obviously tough to get to state when there were roughly 35 teams in a region!

In 1974 there were 241 Class B teams.
In 1984 there were 211 Class B teams.
In 1994 there were 159 Class B teams.
In 2004 there were 139 Class B teams.
In 2014 there were 107 Class B teams.

Today there are 107 Class B teams. The trend of losing Class B teams to coop and consolidation is halting, which is why now is a good time for three classes!
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby B Historian » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:43 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:
B Historian wrote:These schools have never been to state in any form:

Thompson
Tioga
Solen
Velva
Nedrose
South Prairie

These schools have never been to the Class B tournament but have played in the Class C tournament:

Maple Valley (Oriska, Tower City and Buffalo have all participated. Tower City also won the single class tournament in 1915)
Alexander
North Shore (Makoti in Class C)

White Shield has never been to state but this school basically mirrors Elbowoods, which participated in several state tournaments prior to be flooded by the Garrison Dam.

Neither school in the Burke Central/Bowbells coop has been to the State B. However, Columbus and Portal both played in the Class B tournament prior to consolidating with Burke Central. Bowbells played in three single class state tournaments in the 20's.


Surprised Velva has never made it. Hard to answer a question like this with all the schools cooped now or closed schools that have been absorbed by others. For instance, Finley-Sharon-Hope-Page. Don't believe Finley ever made it, but Sharon did before it closed in the 70s. Also, not sure if Hope ever went, but Page had a few good teams that went to state.


There are several parts of current coops that have never made it. I didn't include those in my list obviously. In your example Sharon and Hope never played in the B tournament but did make it to the Class C tournament. Finley played in the Class B tournament in 1964 and Page in 1987. The multiple former schools involved makes it hard to keep track of.
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby B-oldtimer » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:56 pm

I was mistaken on Warwick I should have looked at teams past the 80's I thought I new who had gone since then. I guess I am getting old and don't remember like I used too. I also wanted to add to B historian facts that number of the class b schools today are former class A schools. Also on Langdon that is right they lost to Nekoma in 1970 but they also were highly rated in 1969 when they lost to Edmore. Both years they were low scoring games with teams in high 20's to low 30's scores. I remember being at the games as small kid how packed the gym was and how loud the games were. That Langdon and Edmore and Nekoma all worked the ball for maximum ball possession high percentage shot because falling behind by couple of possessions was the like today being down 10 to 12 points. Making up possessions in those days was hard because team like Langdon had with large front line if they got up on you the likely hood was they wouldn't take shot unless pretty much had layup from their front line people. Also in that day if you fouled there was a free throw awarded on the first foul and after 5 you got one and one. This could be advantage for getting ball possession but it also could put you down couple of possessions if you failed to score yourself after the foul. The game was different then more tactical game especially from class b powers of the time like Ed Byers teams of Hillsboro where they wanted control tempo and possession of the game.
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby B Historian » Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:54 pm

B-oldtimer wrote:I was mistaken on Warwick I should have looked at teams past the 80's I thought I new who had gone since then. I guess I am getting old and don't remember like I used too. I also wanted to add to B historian facts that number of the class b schools today are former class A schools. Also on Langdon that is right they lost to Nekoma in 1970 but they also were highly rated in 1969 when they lost to Edmore. Both years they were low scoring games with teams in high 20's to low 30's scores. I remember being at the games as small kid how packed the gym was and how loud the games were. That Langdon and Edmore and Nekoma all worked the ball for maximum ball possession high percentage shot because falling behind by couple of possessions was the like today being down 10 to 12 points. Making up possessions in those days was hard because team like Langdon had with large front line if they got up on you the likely hood was they wouldn't take shot unless pretty much had layup from their front line people. Also in that day if you fouled there was a free throw awarded on the first foul and after 5 you got one and one. This could be advantage for getting ball possession but it also could put you down couple of possessions if you failed to score yourself after the foul. The game was different then more tactical game especially from class b powers of the time like Ed Byers teams of Hillsboro where they wanted control tempo and possession of the game.


Things were so much more tactical and structured and in those days a good coach could make a bigger difference in the game than today. Coaching still matters obviously, but not as much as it did 40-50 years ago.

I agree that it was tougher to come from behind in those days but it still happened on occasion. Since we are talking about teams that have never been in the state tournament, Solen had a 33-16 halftime lead against New England St. Mary's in the 1971 R8 final only to see St. Mary's rally and win 58-56 on a shot at the buzzer.
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby Class B » Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:14 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:Surprised Velva has never made it. Hard to answer a question like this with all the schools cooped now or closed schools that have been absorbed by others. For instance, Finley-Sharon-Hope-Page. Don't believe Finley ever made it, but Sharon did before it closed in the 70s. Also, not sure if Hope ever went, but Page had a few good teams that went to state.


I know this isn't unique to just Velva, but I wonder how much of it has to do with them having a perennially strong wrestling program? They are never short of athletes there, but I'm sure it gets tough when the best athletes are split up for the winter sports. Just a thought.
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby winner-within » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:25 am

In 1974 there were 241 Class B teams.
In 1984 there were 211 Class B teams.
In 1994 there were 159 Class B teams.
In 2004 there were 139 Class B teams.
In 2014 there were 107 Class B teams.


when I look at this, (and I appreciate all your history B-Historian, its fun to read)....
I see where, IMO, 3 classes should have never left the format of ND Basketball....it would have enhanced Girls Ball even more than Boys I would say....sadly, all decisions in the Public School system are based on Time and Money...so once gone? very seldom does anything come back....

personally I think its to late for 3 classes even with things halting, because the halt is temporary and in 8 years it could look like this

In 2027 there are 95 Class B teams. (stab in the dark, but I bet I'm close) I don't know the answer to the Parochial School dominance but that is inevitable....it will not surprise me that education takes even more drastic changes as technology advances, to where in 50 years the Public School thing is dwindling immensely....

also there are teams the "have never been to the" Regional tourn I would bet
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:30 am

winner-within wrote:In 1974 there were 241 Class B teams.
In 1984 there were 211 Class B teams.
In 1994 there were 159 Class B teams.
In 2004 there were 139 Class B teams.
In 2014 there were 107 Class B teams.


when I look at this, (and I appreciate all your history B-Historian, its fun to read)....
I see where, IMO, 3 classes should have never left the format of ND Basketball....it would have enhanced Girls Ball even more than Boys I would say....sadly, all decisions in the Public School system are based on Time and Money...so once gone? very seldom does anything come back....

personally I think its to late for 3 classes even with things halting, because the halt is temporary and in 8 years it could look like this

In 2027 there are 95 Class B teams. (stab in the dark, but I bet I'm close) I don't know the answer to the Parochial School dominance but that is inevitable....it will not surprise me that education takes even more drastic changes as technology advances, to where in 50 years the Public School thing is dwindling immensely....

also there are teams the "have never been to the" Regional tourn I would bet


Ironic that you State this as I’m working on a document with all that info...attempting to get back to the 1990 range
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Re: How many Class B teams have never been to the state tour

Postby B Historian » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:40 am

winner-within wrote:In 1974 there were 241 Class B teams.
In 1984 there were 211 Class B teams.
In 1994 there were 159 Class B teams.
In 2004 there were 139 Class B teams.
In 2014 there were 107 Class B teams.


when I look at this, (and I appreciate all your history B-Historian, its fun to read)....
I see where, IMO, 3 classes should have never left the format of ND Basketball....it would have enhanced Girls Ball even more than Boys I would say....sadly, all decisions in the Public School system are based on Time and Money...so once gone? very seldom does anything come back....

personally I think its to late for 3 classes even with things halting, because the halt is temporary and in 8 years it could look like this

In 2027 there are 95 Class B teams. (stab in the dark, but I bet I'm close) I don't know the answer to the Parochial School dominance but that is inevitable....it will not surprise me that education takes even more drastic changes as technology advances, to where in 50 years the Public School thing is dwindling immensely....

also there are teams the "have never been to the" Regional tourn I would bet


I don't think there will be that significant of a drop in the number of Class B teams in the next eight years. One reason is that the downward enrollment trends are reversing in many areas of the state.

The other reason is that most coops are already pushed to the limit of being logistically feasible. For many years it was two towns 10 minutes apart becoming a coop. Not a big deal. But now you have coops where towns are 30-40 minutes apart. Unless it's a desperate situation from a numbers standpoint I don't think many coops that have schools 60-70 minutes apart will form.

When you look at the the drop in number of teams over the years, the biggest drop occurred between 1984 and 1994. There were many school consolidations during this time period but this was also just after the coops started being allowed by the NDHSAA in 1981. At that time it was easy to coop with the neighboring town 7 miles down the road. Much tougher to do now.
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