The Myth Part 3

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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby leroybla » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:02 pm

Sniper wrote:
BISONFAN18 wrote:
Pit Bull wrote:
BISONFAN18 wrote:
Pit Bull wrote:
Sniper wrote:
District12guy wrote:For some privates it's simply not possible to move up a class. For example, I know for a fact that Bishop Ryan and Our Reedemers aren't big schools enrollment wise, and most of their players have been there for their entire high school careers, so "recruiting" isn't an issue. Plenty of small town schools have more students. Is it really fair to move these schools up a class simply because they are private schools? Or because they are located in Minot? I don't know anything about any of the other privates, all I'm saying is not all of them have an overwhelming advantage as many here seem to believe. In fact, in region 6 the most dominant teams for a few years have been teams like Rugby and Berthold.


I think the “recruiting” associated with private schools is mostly pointed at the amount of students Shiloh has had transfer in over the years, which is a lot and many of them just happen to be good athletes. Also the advantages most people refer to when talking about private schools is living in towns that offer many more opportunities to improve in athletics. You can’t tell me living somewhere that you have little league sports, acceleration programs available, a YMCA, summer camps does not help. And yes schools like Thompson have a similar advantage living near bigger cities that offer this but I would rather have them be the “bad guys” than the schools located within those cities.


Curious who the boys have recruited over the years? Ogbu was a rare exception. So other than him since I'm sure you think he was recruited, who else in their boys program? Just curious since you seem to think it's rampant.


There have been multiple people get jobs at Shiloh whos children happen to be star athletes there. Call it what you wish. It is just one of the perks of the location I guess. Don't pretend it does not happen.


I would estimate that a lot of employees at Shiloh have kids attending the school. It has nothing to do with athletics, but more to do with convenience. Most of these employees could make a lot more money in the Public school system believe me. This assumption is ridiculous.
What assumption? There have been star athletes transfer to Shiloh and their parents have received employment there. That is a fact. I did not assume any wrong doing. I actually said it was a perk of being in a good location.


I am very confused at what Pit Bull thinks we are all assuming. Every school has teachers who’s children go to the school they teach at. I highly doubt every single athlete that I listed who transferred to Shiloh in the past few years transferred because their parents got a teaching job at the school. Let’s face it transferring out of the public schools in Bismarck to Shiloh allows for athletes to continue playing when they might of not made it in the bigger schools. It’s not Shilohs fault for this happening, it’s just an advantage of being located in one of the biggest cities in the state. You cannot deny that Shiloh has had students transfer in recently whether it’s in elementary, middle or high school. It is what it is.


Exactly. The option of transferring out of public schools in the "bigs" to borderless private school districts does not exist in most of class B land without sacrificing eligibility.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby justplayalready » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:00 am

All start off by saying that I want St. John to win...

But why does St John get a pass and Shiloh doesn't?

Conspiracy buffs who believe their football field is slanted downhill chime in...
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby B Historian » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:09 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
B Historian wrote:
heimer wrote:This isn't about shot clock or no shot clock.

I'm telling you now, if we don't move to support three classes, you will lose basketball as we know it.

Wyndmere and Lidgerwood should have a class where they can exist on their own, not be forced to co-op for survival.

The shot clock has not made the game worse, except at the A girls level, where it's only 30 seconds. That needs to change.

Lets get back on point.


What do you mean by lose basketball as we know it? Please elaborate.

Wyndmere has 70 kids in HS and Lidgerwood 61. They should exist on their own in basketball but everyone is saying Central Valley can't do it with 62 kids?


I think it's interesting to look at Region 8. Very few coops and many schools that have HS enrollments in the 40s and still field their own teams and have for many years with those numbers. Also, have the big schools in WC, NT, and Stanley plus a private school although very small. How does this area do it, but other areas of the state have to co-op so much? Just curious.


I think the big reason is geography. Schools tend to be a bit closer together in the eastern part of the state. It's much easier to make a co-op work when two schools are 15 miles apart versus 30.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:38 am

B Historian wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
B Historian wrote:
heimer wrote:This isn't about shot clock or no shot clock.

I'm telling you now, if we don't move to support three classes, you will lose basketball as we know it.

Wyndmere and Lidgerwood should have a class where they can exist on their own, not be forced to co-op for survival.

The shot clock has not made the game worse, except at the A girls level, where it's only 30 seconds. That needs to change.

Lets get back on point.


What do you mean by lose basketball as we know it? Please elaborate.

Wyndmere has 70 kids in HS and Lidgerwood 61. They should exist on their own in basketball but everyone is saying Central Valley can't do it with 62 kids?


I think it's interesting to look at Region 8. Very few coops and many schools that have HS enrollments in the 40s and still field their own teams and have for many years with those numbers. Also, have the big schools in WC, NT, and Stanley plus a private school although very small. How does this area do it, but other areas of the state have to co-op so much? Just curious.


I think the big reason is geography. Schools tend to be a bit closer together in the eastern part of the state. It's much easier to make a co-op work when two schools are 15 miles apart versus 30.


I agree that is probably part of it, but there are also plenty of coops with larger schools that are still around the 30 miles apart. How can these schools sustain a program with 40 kids when schools with 60-80 need to coop with someone that is also of the similar size?
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby Flip » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:52 am

ndlionsfan wrote:I think it's interesting to look at Region 8. Very few coops and many schools that have HS enrollments in the 40s and still field their own teams and have for many years with those numbers. Also, have the big schools in WC, NT, and Stanley plus a private school although very small. How does this area do it, but other areas of the state have to co-op so much? Just curious.

Who are these schools that are having teams with 40 enrollments? I'm not familiar with the western part of the state.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:02 am

Here are a few....Williston Trinity 32, North Shore 36, Center 48, Powers Lake 49, White Shield 50, Alexander 53, Mandaree 56

I thought there were a few more and not all are in Region 8, but gives an idea.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby B Historian » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:17 am

BISONFAN18 wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
B Historian wrote:SD has had a 3-class system for over 30 years and yet they have several co-ops, most of them in the smallest class:

http://www.sdhsaa.com/Athletics/ClassificationInformation/Cooperatives.aspx

I think a 3-class system in ND would probably stem the tide of further co-ops but I don't think more than a handful of current ones would dissolve if there were three classes.

After doing a little analysis, there is one interesting fact about ND Class B schools: Over the next several years, the public Class B schools will actually be gaining enrollment overall. Right now there are about 2500 seniors at such schools across the state while there are about 3200 in kindergarten. It will be interesting to see how this effects basketball going forward.


I counted 18 co-ops for SD. Going through the list for ND I counted 25 true co-ops. I did not count Rolette/Wolford, Strasburg/Zeeland, Grafton/St. Thomas, etc. as co-ops as one piece of those co-ops is so small they would have no chance of standing on their own. Also did not count the Class A/middle schools that are also listed as an official co-op. So the actual number goes way up. Do not know anything on if there are similar co-ops for SD. I was surprised that I thought it would actually be much higher in ND than what I found.
Just to compair apples to apples, how many SD coops are "true" coops?


All of the co-ops in SD are legit. Most are between two schools that have enrollments of 40-60, so they stay in the lowest class but have more numbers to compete with.

There is only one co-op in SD where two schools that would be in the lowest class on their own combine to form a co-op that gets bumped up a class. If ND had three classes, there would be a few of these.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby B Historian » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:28 am

ndlionsfan wrote:
B Historian wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:
B Historian wrote:
heimer wrote:This isn't about shot clock or no shot clock.

I'm telling you now, if we don't move to support three classes, you will lose basketball as we know it.

Wyndmere and Lidgerwood should have a class where they can exist on their own, not be forced to co-op for survival.

The shot clock has not made the game worse, except at the A girls level, where it's only 30 seconds. That needs to change.

Lets get back on point.


What do you mean by lose basketball as we know it? Please elaborate.

Wyndmere has 70 kids in HS and Lidgerwood 61. They should exist on their own in basketball but everyone is saying Central Valley can't do it with 62 kids?


I think it's interesting to look at Region 8. Very few coops and many schools that have HS enrollments in the 40s and still field their own teams and have for many years with those numbers. Also, have the big schools in WC, NT, and Stanley plus a private school although very small. How does this area do it, but other areas of the state have to co-op so much? Just curious.


I think the big reason is geography. Schools tend to be a bit closer together in the eastern part of the state. It's much easier to make a co-op work when two schools are 15 miles apart versus 30.


I agree that is probably part of it, but there are also plenty of coops with larger schools that are still around the 30 miles apart. How can these schools sustain a program with 40 kids when schools with 60-80 need to coop with someone that is also of the similar size?


I also think it has to do with enrollment trends. Many of the smaller schools in the east have flat or declining enrollments. The writing is on the wall for these schools that they had better partner with another school now or face a big problem.

Many of the small schools in the west have increasing enrollments. It might be tough to get by now with 50 kids, but when administrators can see that a few years down the line they will have sufficient numbers they continue to go it alone, especially when the potential school to co-op with is 30 miles away:

Mandaree: 56 students in HS now, projects to have 83 in 2027
North Shore: 36 now, 67 in 2027
Center-Stanton: 48 now, 75 in 2027
Powers Lake: 49 now, 60 in 2027
Alexander: 53 now, 74 in 2027
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby winner-within » Thu Mar 15, 2018 2:41 pm

I also think SD has had a Mr. BB from small Class??
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby Pit Bull » Thu Mar 15, 2018 6:43 pm

leroybla wrote:
Sniper wrote:
BISONFAN18 wrote:
Pit Bull wrote:
BISONFAN18 wrote:
Pit Bull wrote:
Sniper wrote:
District12guy wrote:For some privates it's simply not possible to move up a class. For example, I know for a fact that Bishop Ryan and Our Reedemers aren't big schools enrollment wise, and most of their players have been there for their entire high school careers, so "recruiting" isn't an issue. Plenty of small town schools have more students. Is it really fair to move these schools up a class simply because they are private schools? Or because they are located in Minot? I don't know anything about any of the other privates, all I'm saying is not all of them have an overwhelming advantage as many here seem to believe. In fact, in region 6 the most dominant teams for a few years have been teams like Rugby and Berthold.


I think the “recruiting” associated with private schools is mostly pointed at the amount of students Shiloh has had transfer in over the years, which is a lot and many of them just happen to be good athletes. Also the advantages most people refer to when talking about private schools is living in towns that offer many more opportunities to improve in athletics. You can’t tell me living somewhere that you have little league sports, acceleration programs available, a YMCA, summer camps does not help. And yes schools like Thompson have a similar advantage living near bigger cities that offer this but I would rather have them be the “bad guys” than the schools located within those cities.


Curious who the boys have recruited over the years? Ogbu was a rare exception. So other than him since I'm sure you think he was recruited, who else in their boys program? Just curious since you seem to think it's rampant.


There have been multiple people get jobs at Shiloh whos children happen to be star athletes there. Call it what you wish. It is just one of the perks of the location I guess. Don't pretend it does not happen.


I would estimate that a lot of employees at Shiloh have kids attending the school. It has nothing to do with athletics, but more to do with convenience. Most of these employees could make a lot more money in the Public school system believe me. This assumption is ridiculous.
What assumption? There have been star athletes transfer to Shiloh and their parents have received employment there. That is a fact. I did not assume any wrong doing. I actually said it was a perk of being in a good location.


I am very confused at what Pit Bull thinks we are all assuming. Every school has teachers who’s children go to the school they teach at. I highly doubt every single athlete that I listed who transferred to Shiloh in the past few years transferred because their parents got a teaching job at the school. Let’s face it transferring out of the public schools in Bismarck to Shiloh allows for athletes to continue playing when they might of not made it in the bigger schools. It’s not Shilohs fault for this happening, it’s just an advantage of being located in one of the biggest cities in the state. You cannot deny that Shiloh has had students transfer in recently whether it’s in elementary, middle or high school. It is what it is.


Exactly. The option of transferring out of public schools in the "bigs" to borderless private school districts does not exist in most of class B land without sacrificing eligibility.


I know this has happened and I don't deny that. I would argue star athletes transfer when I don't think any of the ones you mentioned were all-state in any sports they participated in.

It is an assumption that stating star athletes parents get jobs cause of their children. Most of the staff has been there since their kids were very small (probably not even in school yet). You can call it an assumption, not knowing the facts, guessing, whatever you want.

You are correct that most Class B towns don't have the luxury of transfers. Probably not due to eligibility issues cause Shiloh falls under this umbrella as well. Probably due to jobs, location, size, etc. It does happen, but not close to what the Privates experience.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby BISONFAN18 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 7:24 pm

Pit Bull wrote:
leroybla wrote:
Sniper wrote:
BISONFAN18 wrote:
Pit Bull wrote:
BISONFAN18 wrote:
Pit Bull wrote:
Sniper wrote:
District12guy wrote:For some privates it's simply not possible to move up a class. For example, I know for a fact that Bishop Ryan and Our Reedemers aren't big schools enrollment wise, and most of their players have been there for their entire high school careers, so "recruiting" isn't an issue. Plenty of small town schools have more students. Is it really fair to move these schools up a class simply because they are private schools? Or because they are located in Minot? I don't know anything about any of the other privates, all I'm saying is not all of them have an overwhelming advantage as many here seem to believe. In fact, in region 6 the most dominant teams for a few years have been teams like Rugby and Berthold.


I think the “recruiting” associated with private schools is mostly pointed at the amount of students Shiloh has had transfer in over the years, which is a lot and many of them just happen to be good athletes. Also the advantages most people refer to when talking about private schools is living in towns that offer many more opportunities to improve in athletics. You can’t tell me living somewhere that you have little league sports, acceleration programs available, a YMCA, summer camps does not help. And yes schools like Thompson have a similar advantage living near bigger cities that offer this but I would rather have them be the “bad guys” than the schools located within those cities.


Curious who the boys have recruited over the years? Ogbu was a rare exception. So other than him since I'm sure you think he was recruited, who else in their boys program? Just curious since you seem to think it's rampant.


There have been multiple people get jobs at Shiloh whos children happen to be star athletes there. Call it what you wish. It is just one of the perks of the location I guess. Don't pretend it does not happen.


I would estimate that a lot of employees at Shiloh have kids attending the school. It has nothing to do with athletics, but more to do with convenience. Most of these employees could make a lot more money in the Public school system believe me. This assumption is ridiculous.
What assumption? There have been star athletes transfer to Shiloh and their parents have received employment there. That is a fact. I did not assume any wrong doing. I actually said it was a perk of being in a good location.


I am very confused at what Pit Bull thinks we are all assuming. Every school has teachers who’s children go to the school they teach at. I highly doubt every single athlete that I listed who transferred to Shiloh in the past few years transferred because their parents got a teaching job at the school. Let’s face it transferring out of the public schools in Bismarck to Shiloh allows for athletes to continue playing when they might of not made it in the bigger schools. It’s not Shilohs fault for this happening, it’s just an advantage of being located in one of the biggest cities in the state. You cannot deny that Shiloh has had students transfer in recently whether it’s in elementary, middle or high school. It is what it is.


Exactly. The option of transferring out of public schools in the "bigs" to borderless private school districts does not exist in most of class B land without sacrificing eligibility.


I know this has happened and I don't deny that. I would argue star athletes transfer when I don't think any of the ones you mentioned were all-state in any sports they participated in.

It is an assumption that stating star athletes parents get jobs cause of their children. Most of the staff has been there since their kids were very small (probably not even in school yet). You can call it an assumption, not knowing the facts, guessing, whatever you want.

You are correct that most Class B towns don't have the luxury of transfers. Probably not due to eligibility issues cause Shiloh falls under this umbrella as well. Probably due to jobs, location, size, etc. It does happen, but not close to what the Privates experience.


You should start pleading the 5th.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby Sniper » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:00 am

Pit Bull wrote:
leroybla wrote:
Sniper wrote:
BISONFAN18 wrote:
Pit Bull wrote:
BISONFAN18 wrote:
Pit Bull wrote:
Sniper wrote:
District12guy wrote:For some privates it's simply not possible to move up a class. For example, I know for a fact that Bishop Ryan and Our Reedemers aren't big schools enrollment wise, and most of their players have been there for their entire high school careers, so "recruiting" isn't an issue. Plenty of small town schools have more students. Is it really fair to move these schools up a class simply because they are private schools? Or because they are located in Minot? I don't know anything about any of the other privates, all I'm saying is not all of them have an overwhelming advantage as many here seem to believe. In fact, in region 6 the most dominant teams for a few years have been teams like Rugby and Berthold.


I think the “recruiting” associated with private schools is mostly pointed at the amount of students Shiloh has had transfer in over the years, which is a lot and many of them just happen to be good athletes. Also the advantages most people refer to when talking about private schools is living in towns that offer many more opportunities to improve in athletics. You can’t tell me living somewhere that you have little league sports, acceleration programs available, a YMCA, summer camps does not help. And yes schools like Thompson have a similar advantage living near bigger cities that offer this but I would rather have them be the “bad guys” than the schools located within those cities.


Curious who the boys have recruited over the years? Ogbu was a rare exception. So other than him since I'm sure you think he was recruited, who else in their boys program? Just curious since you seem to think it's rampant.


There have been multiple people get jobs at Shiloh whos children happen to be star athletes there. Call it what you wish. It is just one of the perks of the location I guess. Don't pretend it does not happen.


I would estimate that a lot of employees at Shiloh have kids attending the school. It has nothing to do with athletics, but more to do with convenience. Most of these employees could make a lot more money in the Public school system believe me. This assumption is ridiculous.
What assumption? There have been star athletes transfer to Shiloh and their parents have received employment there. That is a fact. I did not assume any wrong doing. I actually said it was a perk of being in a good location.


I am very confused at what Pit Bull thinks we are all assuming. Every school has teachers who’s children go to the school they teach at. I highly doubt every single athlete that I listed who transferred to Shiloh in the past few years transferred because their parents got a teaching job at the school. Let’s face it transferring out of the public schools in Bismarck to Shiloh allows for athletes to continue playing when they might of not made it in the bigger schools. It’s not Shilohs fault for this happening, it’s just an advantage of being located in one of the biggest cities in the state. You cannot deny that Shiloh has had students transfer in recently whether it’s in elementary, middle or high school. It is what it is.


Exactly. The option of transferring out of public schools in the "bigs" to borderless private school districts does not exist in most of class B land without sacrificing eligibility.


I know this has happened and I don't deny that. I would argue star athletes transfer when I don't think any of the ones you mentioned were all-state in any sports they participated in.

It is an assumption that stating star athletes parents get jobs cause of their children. Most of the staff has been there since their kids were very small (probably not even in school yet). You can call it an assumption, not knowing the facts, guessing, whatever you want.

You are correct that most Class B towns don't have the luxury of transfers. Probably not due to eligibility issues cause Shiloh falls under this umbrella as well. Probably due to jobs, location, size, etc. It does happen, but not close to what the Privates experience.


Lambert and Ogbu aren’t star athletes? Shiloh does not make the state tournament in 2012-2013 if Lambert is not there. Possibly would have been all-state if not for an off-season violation. Ogbu first team All-State football and was more athletic than every player he faced in high school basketball and football here. James Inman was 2nd team all state football in 2013 and started for the Shiloh team that went to state in 2012-2013. Matt Rask was a very good player and starter on a team that took 3rd in state. I believe Coulter was an all-region player, started on at least one state tournament team.

Lambert also did very well in cross country and track. I believe he placed at state in one or both of those sports.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby sportsnut5 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:19 am

How many of the Class B AD’s when interviewed made a point of bringing an elementary basketball picture to try and convince the audience that the team had no transfers. When this is done, you know they are aware of what they have been doing and that public perception is against them. Bismarck and Minot in the Class B. Did anyone else see how many empty seats were in the Civic for that game?
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby Sportsrube » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:53 am

justplayalready wrote:All start off by saying that I want St. John to win...

But why does St John get a pass and Shiloh doesn't?

Conspiracy buffs who believe their football field is slanted downhill chime in...



I think St. John's gets a pass because they are not located within a Class A city. Just my opinion.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby Flip » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:52 pm

sportsnut5 wrote:How many of the Class B AD’s when interviewed made a point of bringing an elementary basketball picture to try and convince the audience that the team had no transfers. When this is done, you know they are aware of what they have been doing and that public perception is against them. Bismarck and Minot in the Class B. Did anyone else see how many empty seats were in the Civic for that game?

was it less than the Stanley/Carrington? I thought there were a lot of empty seats for that game.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby Wilbur » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:24 pm

Flip wrote:
sportsnut5 wrote:How many of the Class B AD’s when interviewed made a point of bringing an elementary basketball picture to try and convince the audience that the team had no transfers. When this is done, you know they are aware of what they have been doing and that public perception is against them. Bismarck and Minot in the Class B. Did anyone else see how many empty seats were in the Civic for that game?

was it less than the Stanley/Carrington? I thought there were a lot of empty seats for that game.

I was closer to the Bishop Ryan crowd, and they were actually louder than I thought they would be. They actually had a lot of kids in their student section considering they have just a little over 100 students in high school. I was pretty far away from Shiloh crowd but could hear them cheer pretty clearly. I guess I have seen smaller crowds for teams in past state tournaments.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby Indy5 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:37 pm

I mean no sarcasm with this question. For curiosity sake, can someone create a comprehensive list of all the teams in the state that are not acceptable? This is clearly subjective, but I'd like to get a feel for it since there are various archetypes that dignify a school as being a heel in class B hoops.

I find it curious how different suburban towns are viewed. I don't disagree about the advantage of youth leagues and opportunities in cities. But, there are a lot of class B schools within 20 miles of those cities with the same opportunities. Thompson catches flak for that. Big school 10 minutes from Grand Forks. Yet, DLB seems to get a pass being a slightly smaller school 5 minutes from Minot. I assume its because they've been highly competitive every year but never great.

Berthold is an interesting case study to me. Small school 20 minutes from Minot. 20 minutes is not long, and I'd say people from that town regularly go to Minot 3 times a week for groceries, the mall, food, etc. They have teams in every youth/summer league that Minot has. Still, they've been considered a darling in their frequent state tournament runs.

I would just be very interested to see an exact list, so I'll start.

Privates
- Heels - all 6
Oil
- Heels - Watford, Stanley
Suburbs
- Heels - Central Cass, Kindred, Thompson,
- Could be if more successful - Northern Cass, Medina, Wilton-Wing, Nedrose, South Prairie, Velva (maybe is?), DLB, Berthold (successful but small), Surrey, South Heart, New England,
Too Big
- Heels - Lisbon?, Cavalier (not that big but seems to be disliked), Grafton, Mayville (heimer cited them), Carrington, Rugby, Bottineau?, Beulah, Hazen, New Town?,

So 20 heels and 12 more possible. We should hate on about 1/3 of the state? I just feel like we keep making excuses to add teams to the list of not being classic Bs that you should root for. For the record, I'm fine with having a couple teams in your region that everyone hates because it's a natural thing in life.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby lennylive » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:51 pm

Indy5 wrote:I mean no sarcasm with this question. For curiosity sake, can someone create a comprehensive list of all the teams in the state that are not acceptable? This is clearly subjective, but I'd like to get a feel for it since there are various archetypes that dignify a school as being a heel in class B hoops.

I find it curious how different suburban towns are viewed. I don't disagree about the advantage of youth leagues and opportunities in cities. But, there are a lot of class B schools within 20 miles of those cities with the same opportunities. Thompson catches flak for that. Big school 10 minutes from Grand Forks. Yet, DLB seems to get a pass being a slightly smaller school 5 minutes from Minot. I assume its because they've been highly competitive every year but never great.

Berthold is an interesting case study to me. Small school 20 minutes from Minot. 20 minutes is not long, and I'd say people from that town regularly go to Minot 3 times a week for groceries, the mall, food, etc. They have teams in every youth/summer league that Minot has. Still, they've been considered a darling in their frequent state tournament runs.

I would just be very interested to see an exact list, so I'll start.

Privates
- Heels - all 6
Oil
- Heels - Watford, Stanley
Suburbs
- Heels - Central Cass, Kindred, Thompson,
- Could be if more successful - Northern Cass, Medina, Wilton-Wing, Nedrose, South Prairie, Velva (maybe is?), DLB, Berthold (successful but small), Surrey, South Heart, New England,
Too Big
- Heels - Lisbon?, Cavalier (not that big but seems to be disliked), Grafton, Mayville (heimer cited them), Carrington, Rugby, Bottineau?, Beulah, Hazen, New Town?,

So 20 heels and 12 more possible. We should hate on about 1/3 of the state? I just feel like we keep making excuses to add teams to the list of not being classic Bs that you should root for. For the record, I'm fine with having a couple teams in your region that everyone hates because it's a natural thing in life.


VERY WELL PUT...couldn't have said it better myself... I still say it falls back on a few things...1)Getting Kids involved...2) having an AD who can do just that...3) having a coach that the kids want to play for....Not all schools can be good in 3 sports...some only have enough students to be good at 1 sport....whatever the factor is in your school..and if you want to have a winning/competitive program...then GET INVOLVED and stop crying about those who already do so....
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby Bigbrew22 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 5:00 pm

Not well put because it's not in context.
Over the last twenty years 6 private schools combined for 40 appearances in state B.
While the six schools with the highest enrollment( dwarfs the privates combined enrollments) only combined for 21 state appearances. People can clearly see the disparity so it's easy to pick a "heel ".
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby jimor » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:14 pm

Sportsrube wrote:
justplayalready wrote:All start off by saying that I want St. John to win...

But why does St John get a pass and Shiloh doesn't?

Conspiracy buffs who believe their football field is slanted downhill chime in...



I think St. John's gets a pass because they are not located within a Class A city. Just my opinion.



St. John is a town of about 350 people 6 miles from the Canadian border.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby lennylive » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:44 pm

I come from Region 1...I know all about a Private School going to state...but OG gets there because Basketball is THEIR thing. they do not dominate in ANY OTHER SPORT.....NEVER HAVE...and I doubt they EVER will.... They go to State in BBB because they have a Coach who knows how to get the best out of His players. And those players I am pretty positive work at their game...ALL year.
Believe me when I say this... I have no doubt that every team in this region despises OG...but..that doesn't change the fact that OG gets to state because they put a lot of effort into it...yep...they have a large recruiting(if you wanna say that) because they are within the largest city in ND....But if that is the case ..then tell me why they do not dominate in other sports?

BTW...since 1969 ...those privates have won BBB state...6 times... and by only 4 of the Privates.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby Bigbrew22 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:55 pm

But in the last 20 years 6 teams that represent 5.5% of North Dakota class B teams represent 25% of the field in the state tournament and have won it 20% of the time. So nobody can deny that something is going on there and the the other 94.5% is having a hard time believing this is natural as in that they aren't taking major advantage of..something. That's why people love to hate the privates.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby lennylive » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:41 am

Yep...something is going on....The Rural area is shrinking...the metro area is growing. The small towns are disappearing, no more families with 4 plus kids..thus you have co-ops. 1 Reason why a 3 class system will never work. And if there is a 3 class system how long will it last?. there use to be a 3 class system because there was A LOT more towns with schools. Take a drive through rural ND and look at all the towns with abandoned schools. I can drive a 30 mile radius from where I live and there is numerous abandon schools or towns that use to have schools that no longer do...here is a few...Alice, Sheldon(actually had a Catholic school also at 1 time) Nome, Fingal,Chaffee, Leonard,Oriska,Kathryn,Cogswell, Rutland,Fullerton,Mapleton etc...etc...etc Just think, there are Towns that WON state that no longer exist.
Is it cool that the BIG schools and Privates dominate....Nope...But there is nothing that is going to change. Except sooner or later those Bigs and Privates will have to go Class A...like Watford City...I see Casselton going that way in the future, maybe Kindred, I am sure there will be others..Along with the metro growing you have more schools within...take for instance...Fargo WF metro area has a lot more schools than they use to. Its just the way our economy and such has changed it.
I wonder how many people that want a 3 class system drive to the Metro to shop, instead of support their local businesses, if there is any left, because 20 years ago they started going to the BIG city to shop.
Co-ops are a way for Small town ND to compete.... it eliminates the 3 class system. Yes...we on the EAST side of the state have the luck of not having a huge distance between towns. That being said, Small town ND is still shrinking....less people...less kids.... sooner or later those co-ops will either grow...or consolidate...build a school in the middle of the country(already has been done..several times)...HMMMM..imagine that... the country school?...seems to me thats where my dad went to school...WAAAAAY WAAAY back. Perhaps it will come full circle 1 day. When I was in HS(1976-79) there was talk of my school Sheldon co-oping with Chaffee, and Leonard(Sheldon and Chaffee Co-oped a few years at the end prior to Chaffee Closing(Jim Levos era I believe)But that never happened because there was to much pride, rivalry, (bullheadedness), to let it happen . I am POSITIVE if they would have co-oped or consolidated back then, there would have been a Few State Teams created then and up to the present...but guess what...NONE of those 3 small towns ever made it to state in Class B.

BTW...congrats to Wyndmere/Lidgerwood on making it to state.... a co-op of 2 towns that have not been to state since 71-Wyndmere and 63-Lidgerwood
Last edited by lennylive on Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby UNDSiouxfan » Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:27 am

Great points Big Brew, that really puts things into perspective. My whole argument against the privates is simple —- these are not class B towns - they represent class A Cities. That formula doesn’t belong in class B basketball and 95% of the class B community agrees.

Heck, maybe join OG & Shanley together and compete with class A. Same thing with Our Redeemers & Ryan. St. Mary’s is good enough the way it is, but let them team up with Shiloh. Trinity will be fine, or have them join up with Dickinson High. Combine the Williston private with Williston A at the HS level because they need help to compete anyways.

These are not class B cities, period. We are tired of the NDHSAA catering to the privates and big cities. Enough is enough. Make Class B great again.
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Re: The Myth Part 3

Postby NodakQ2 » Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:01 am

Flip wrote:
sportsnut5 wrote:How many of the Class B AD’s when interviewed made a point of bringing an elementary basketball picture to try and convince the audience that the team had no transfers. When this is done, you know they are aware of what they have been doing and that public perception is against them. Bismarck and Minot in the Class B. Did anyone else see how many empty seats were in the Civic for that game?

was it less than the Stanley/Carrington? I thought there were a lot of empty seats for that game.


That’s because about 500 St John fans left after their game. The St John crowd has CLEARED OUT after each of their games creating a “look” like there’s nobody in the stands. I know the population is 350, but they gotta have 500 people here. Will be curious if they stick around for the championship tonight. If not, it will look like a weak crowd for the Ship. The 3rd place game may have a bigger crowd than the championship. I think the place will be packed tonight.

Crowds in general have been great IMO.
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