The Myth

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Re: The Myth

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 21, 2017 3:03 pm

Privates and "just turning Class B from Class A" and BIG B schools, have been in the Class B tournament WELL before the World Wide Web....its just now, 2005! (when threads and blogs and forums started) or Wait is it 2017 ? remember! that is 12 years now and nobody is really listening and things are still gravitating from the wide open prairie, to the urban suburbs and bedroom communities and recruiting & transferring is a common phenomenon... 1,500 acre farms are now 15,000 acre farms and 8 children is 4 family's instead of 1....

is it the internet that has caused the myth or is it reality? Hmmm Both, I would say!!

reality caused it and the net opened our eyes to it....you were to never hear it on the 6 o'clock news
or local AM radio station back in the 80's (when 3 classes (to make it more equal) was much more needed than now) once again, social media was not around and the Melo Ball's (lonzo's little bro) of the world didn't have 1,000,000 followers on Instagram... HeII, Micheal Jordan didn't even have a cell phone.....

time fly's when your having fun, or are you? sports is bigger than life, or is it? and whatever they come up with in Valley City we will do it, or play it, or will we?

they may just raise the enrollment back up to 400 for Class B .....and then lower it again

see, thats why playing any sport unrelated to a School became familiar place and sometimes much more fun!
we used to call it pick-up games and summer camps and Y-ball ......nothing has changed, we'd sit beside the land line and call the janitor, or the coach, or the principal for hours waiting for somebody to let us in the gym or drive right to their houses because we new they were home but wouldn't answer the phone..... smart phones have just made things more efficient and you can place your text or snap carry on your business and wait for a reply......don't knock the things of today compared to back when....I see as many parents on their phones as kids, maybe worse and maybe for worse reasons....priorities get different from 16 to 46 years old......regardless, not accepting change doesn't bring back the past, it prevents the future

but then whats the future behold?
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Re: The Myth

Postby B-oldtimer » Tue Mar 21, 2017 5:43 pm

`I can tell you what future will hold is we will be down to very few teams left in the state competing in basketball. It may happen anyway but at present course were heading we will be lucky to have 50 class b schools left competing for basketball and volleyball. I will take a look at region 4 teams here and see the way make up will be if we continue like we have and small schools are unable to compete with larger schools. Fourwinds will be with Warwick; Benson County unites with Northstar; St. john, Rolla, and Rolette become one team; Dakota Prairie, Midkota, and Griggs county become one team with either Lakota going with them or ending up with Devils Lake; Langdon already having Munich and Edmore could see additions of North Border nightmare logistically or even could see them do something with Cavalier; New Rockford the natural thing there will be combining with Carrington now you have already disrupted 3 region make ups and where you once had 13 teams your down to six left besides taking teams out 2 other regions or they leaving for those regions. If this happens in some of other regions we would be down to 4 regions left to have enough numbers in the region. Teams will be traveling all over half the state on normal basis. I will tell you this will further reduce kids participation in the sport even more but we will have kids that truly want to play because of effort to play. The question comes is this for 5% of kids that may play college basketball and their parents wanting this for their child. Take a look at our state colleges here in the state I think you would be hard pressed to find more than 2 to 3 players from North Dakota and then if you look at if they are from Class b level I would bet we would have hard time putting a team together. Then look at how many fewer kids will have competed in playing the sport had we tried to keep as many schools fielding teams. This is not to mention that interest is not going to be there when all these schools just provide one or two kids to these teams. Yes I may be resisting change but change I want is goal to keep as many schools fielding teams and getting as many kids as possible chance to play the game. The more involved school is and people participating is the more fans you have and casual interest in the game. Yes game will not be as good but as long as teams are competitive it doesn't matter because fans of class b its about supporting your home town kids.
Yes kids have changed with internet and ability to do other things but also we have changed too with basketball. The expectations also have changed with coaches, administrators, serious fans, and some parents in that it is expected you play year around, you go to camps, be at open gyms which is pretty much a borderline practice, and you play on traveling teams. This is fine for kid that loves and has maybe expectations to play on. Now what happens to kid that doesn't do this may have some interest in basketball but he likes to play for the fun of it and being with his friends. First is the coach doesn't have much interest in him and playing time is reduced so he sits on bench this starts down even in grades and junior high. To be fair to the coach he expected to win majority of his games and only way he sees that he can achieve this to develop talent as much as possible by show of who is really willing put effort forth. The problem with this he just weaned the numbers playing here in small class b school down number of these kids don't see any fun in playing the game. The ones that survive this may go along few more years to high school but here again there playing time is reduced and much more is expected from them again. So we have bleed off of more kids participating in program. Now we get to where numbers are getting low and coaches see some better 8 graders playing better than a lot of these kids that have stuck with the program for chance to play when there older but we replace them with these younger kids so chance of playing is gone. Now to kids that are younger playing in the program and are similar to older kids they see handwriting on the wall so they start to quit. Now we have problem because of low numbers out so we look for coop with larger school to keep the kids we have left playing. Then we see same thing happen again only to better talent and you add in all travel, politics of communities, and coaches having to balance teams from coop participants and numbers start dropping again only for both schools. This scenario I have seen happen several times over my parenting time. The problem starts in beginning with these smaller schools having to compete with larger schools that have full time players. These small schools don't have much of chance to compete against these schools or school coops of fairly good size. To where they only have one option and that is coop with somebody else until we start the process all over again. But we have forgot first basic goal of high school activity was to get as many of kids participating and making it fun when participating. It should not be job but fun activity in the season for that activity for our children. Todays kids are different than in past but one common thing I see its got to be fun and something they can participate in but not a job. I have heard it from a lot kids if its going to be job I could as well go find a job and make some money to do fun things. I see us from past we are way to serious and competitive about the game even more than when we were playing the game. That's why I think if we need to look at structure of high school sports who are they for. I believe way they are structured now there more for Coaches who want to move on up coaching ranks, Colleges who want high school to be minor league system to provide talent to sell their sports and their universities, elite athletes parents to provide best opportunity for their children, and finally activities association with media to provide product they sell to public which can fund their organizations. I see we need to make the game fun for all kids and this may mean looking at the rules and leveling playing field some so its not just a game for tallest and biggest kids. I here this from kids in my area that are participating in hockey size is advantage but there's room for smaller kids to play to also that do very well remains fun to play. Then you ask them about basketball especially if they are smaller say its not fun because larger players can just dominate them playing. This something to think about. I get frustrated with powers to be when nobody wants to talk about this problem and think what's happening can not be changed. There are lots ideas out there but people benefitting the most now hold power and think everything will be just fine but what the future.
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Re: The Myth

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 21, 2017 6:06 pm

I like reading when somebody has passion for Life, Sports, and youth, we are only young one time and the for the rest of our lives we refer to "when we were young" one old guy once told me "the best thing about the old days, is their gone" and then I think of or look at pics of the old days and its like "oh, how it would have been fun to grow up in those days".......I hear all that you are saying b-oldtimer and my post is Neutral although may seem like it leans against 3 classes and or for this or for that....but my post is more about when it comes to the Public School system and sports in them that even though its paid for with our tax money our hands are still tied in a sense and in the midst of that the prairie is dwindling and the Metro is growing immensely....think of a Class A school for a minute and having 3 to 500 in a class....does one really believe there is only 14 boys in that High school that want to play Varsity or JV basketball?

there are some things I have a fierce passion for and one of them is Basketball but on top of that I realize its played all over the world and not just in ND Class B style, when in fact I grew up in a town in ND that had just the one sport "Basketball" which naturally fuels my passion for it but not my wishes for it....we can only take whats given and then one has to go out and chase whats not.........
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Re: The Myth

Postby Indy5 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:02 pm

Schwab, I'm going to address you because you seem to usually have some insight on South Dakota. Do you think SD works better because of their 3 class system? Personally, I don't. I've been to the Class B tournament at the Barnett Center at Northern State. The place seats maybe a little over 6,000, and it wasn't full. The atmosphere was fine, but it wasn't anything like the ND tournament. Saturday night was the fullest I have ever seen the Dome. Over 9,500 in attendance and it felt like it. Aside from the buzz kill of not shutting the lights off, it was a pretty electric crowd I felt. I was with someone who grew up in SD, and they were pretty jealous of what they saw from our tournament.

I understand that a system can't be designed simply around a good state tournament or a good title game. I am in favor of 2 classes. I can see the other viewpoints though. If you want 3 classes, it will be at the expense of the state tournament. That is the reality. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's subjective. Will it be completely destroyed? No, but it won't be the same.
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Re: The Myth

Postby The Schwab » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:08 pm

Indy5 wrote:Schwab, I'm going to address you because you seem to usually have some insight on South Dakota. Do you think SD works better because of their 3 class system? Personally, I don't. I've been to the Class B tournament at the Barnett Center at Northern State. The place seats maybe a little over 6,000, and it wasn't full. The atmosphere was fine, but it wasn't anything like the ND tournament. Saturday night was the fullest I have ever seen the Dome. Over 9,500 in attendance and it felt like it. Aside from the buzz kill of not shutting the lights off, it was a pretty electric crowd I felt. I was with someone who grew up in SD, and they were pretty jealous of what they saw from our tournament.

I understand that a system can't be designed simply around a good state tournament or a good title game. I am in favor of 2 classes. I can see the other viewpoints though. If you want 3 classes, it will be at the expense of the state tournament. That is the reality. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's subjective. Will it be completely destroyed? No, but it won't be the same.


Every single coach I've talked to in SD loves their 3 class system. As for the state class B tournament it all depends on what session you go to, the first 3 sessions of the Class B aren't that well attended, the 4th fairly well, the 5th not much at all and the 6th is always packed (probably has a lot to do with the parade of champions. I bet if you were at the final night of the SD state tournament the atmosphere would pretty pretty electric. I 100 percent disagree that the atmosphere of the state B in a 3 class system wouldn't be as electric as it is now, it might even be better.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Flip » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:45 pm

What if you put the middle class and lowest class state tournaments in the same city and have your championship games back to back Saturday evening?
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Re: The Myth

Postby Indy5 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:55 pm

The Schwab wrote:
Indy5 wrote:Schwab, I'm going to address you because you seem to usually have some insight on South Dakota. Do you think SD works better because of their 3 class system? Personally, I don't. I've been to the Class B tournament at the Barnett Center at Northern State. The place seats maybe a little over 6,000, and it wasn't full. The atmosphere was fine, but it wasn't anything like the ND tournament. Saturday night was the fullest I have ever seen the Dome. Over 9,500 in attendance and it felt like it. Aside from the buzz kill of not shutting the lights off, it was a pretty electric crowd I felt. I was with someone who grew up in SD, and they were pretty jealous of what they saw from our tournament.

I understand that a system can't be designed simply around a good state tournament or a good title game. I am in favor of 2 classes. I can see the other viewpoints though. If you want 3 classes, it will be at the expense of the state tournament. That is the reality. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's subjective. Will it be completely destroyed? No, but it won't be the same.


Every single coach I've talked to in SD loves their 3 class system. As for the state class B tournament it all depends on what session you go to, the first 3 sessions of the Class B aren't that well attended, the 4th fairly well, the 5th not much at all and the 6th is always packed (probably has a lot to do with the parade of champions. I bet if you were at the final night of the SD state tournament the atmosphere would pretty pretty electric. I 100 percent disagree that the atmosphere of the state B in a 3 class system wouldn't be as electric as it is now, it might even be better.

When I was at the SD B tournament, it was the title game, and it didn't really compare to ND.

As for classes, I look at it this way. 3 classes works for SD when you look at their state. Sioux Falls and Rapid are huge. Then, you have a bunch of cities in the 15,000 - 30,000 range. It's best to separate SF and Rapid, but that second tier doesn't really align with small towns. In ND, we have 4 large metro areas. The towns like Dickinson and Williston seem to be fine playing them. After those towns of 15,000ish, there isn't a clear break to distinguish another tier. That's why I think 2 classes works for us.
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Re: The Myth

Postby The Schwab » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:14 pm

South Dakota has 11 towns above 10,000 we have 9. The make-up of our states is very similar. We have 40ish towns between 1,000 and 4,000...sounds like a good middle class to me
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Re: The Myth

Postby winner-within » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:29 pm

The Schwab wrote:South Dakota has 11 towns above 10,000 we have 9. The make-up of our states is very similar. We have 40ish towns between 1,000 and 4,000...sounds like a good middle class to me



how many Privates....because it seems that is the bigger argument isn't it? I can't keep track
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Re: The Myth

Postby Sportsrube » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:39 pm

We play a number of SD teams every year, most of them Class B and 1 Class A. Every coach (and there have been multiple over the last 28 years) loves their 3 class system. I have been to a couple of SD Class B tournaments at the Barnett Center on the campus of Northern State University and most of the time the crowd is about like our State Class B, sometimes worse (depends on the teams playing). In SD all privates are Class A or AA and no one has a problem with it. I think the biggest drawback to SD is that they play at least 2 if not all 3 of their State Tournaments on the same weekend at different sites which could have an affect on your fans that do not have a team playing in one of the tournaments.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Indy5 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 4:45 pm

The Schwab wrote:South Dakota has 11 towns above 10,000 we have 9. The make-up of our states is very similar. We have 40ish towns between 1,000 and 4,000...sounds like a good middle class to me

7 really. West Fargo and Mandan are the same thing as Fargo and Bismarck.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Sniper » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:04 pm

My thoughts:
1. Too many people are looking at the final result instead of the problem. As someone who has played in "the B" it is great, and everyone knows that, but the problem is this great event that was meant to be shared by small towns is becoming a big city event. There are a handful of teams in the class b that have an obvious advantage over everyone else and these teams are becoming around half of "the B" each year. We have an uneven playing field.

2. I fully believe that "the B" would be just as good or even better with a third class (unless the middle class is made too big). The small towns that would make it instead of the privates would for sure travel well and bring the whole community to be a part of this. Also I think more students from around the state would go to watch the matchups. The last thing a small town kid wants to watch is a Fargo school play a Bismarck school in "the B".

3. Putting teams in an even playing field is not the same thing as giving everyone a trophy. With three classes we would have three state champions. For football we currently have four state champions, and we have less football teams than basketball teams. I do not hear anyone complaining about giving everyone a trophy in football.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Sportsrube » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:09 pm

Sniper wrote:My thoughts:
1. Too many people are looking at the final result instead of the problem. As someone who has played in "the B" it is great, and everyone knows that, but the problem is this great event that was meant to be shared by small towns is becoming a big city event. There are a handful of teams in the class b that have an obvious advantage over everyone else and these teams are becoming around half of "the B" each year. We have an uneven playing field.

2. I fully believe that "the B" would be just as good or even better with a third class (unless the middle class is made too big). The small towns that would make it instead of the privates would for sure travel well and bring the whole community to be a part of this. Also I think more students from around the state would go to watch the matchups. The last thing a small town kid wants to watch is a Fargo school play a Bismarck school in "the B".

3. Putting teams in an even playing field is not the same thing as giving everyone a trophy. With three classes we would have three state champions. For football we currently have four state champions, and we have less football teams than basketball teams. I do not hear anyone complaining about giving everyone a trophy in football.


Good post. I am kind of stuck in the middle between moving all Privates into Class A or going to a 3 class system with all the Privates in the middle or upper class. I do not buy the idea that having 3 classes would kill the B tournament, it hasn't in SD and it will not here.. I think the B would still be big and the A would be big with AA staying about the same as it is now as far as attendance, etc... The problem with 3 classes might be finding venues if you hold them on 3 separate weekends. Maybe combining Boys/Girls state tournaments for all 3 classes?
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Re: The Myth

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Wed Mar 22, 2017 6:45 pm

The Schwab wrote:
Indy5 wrote:Schwab, I'm going to address you because you seem to usually have some insight on South Dakota. Do you think SD works better because of their 3 class system? Personally, I don't. I've been to the Class B tournament at the Barnett Center at Northern State. The place seats maybe a little over 6,000, and it wasn't full. The atmosphere was fine, but it wasn't anything like the ND tournament. Saturday night was the fullest I have ever seen the Dome. Over 9,500 in attendance and it felt like it. Aside from the buzz kill of not shutting the lights off, it was a pretty electric crowd I felt. I was with someone who grew up in SD, and they were pretty jealous of what they saw from our tournament.

I understand that a system can't be designed simply around a good state tournament or a good title game. I am in favor of 2 classes. I can see the other viewpoints though. If you want 3 classes, it will be at the expense of the state tournament. That is the reality. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's subjective. Will it be completely destroyed? No, but it won't be the same.


Every single coach I've talked to in SD loves their 3 class system. As for the state class B tournament it all depends on what session you go to, the first 3 sessions of the Class B aren't that well attended, the 4th fairly well, the 5th not much at all and the 6th is always packed (probably has a lot to do with the parade of champions. I bet if you were at the final night of the SD state tournament the atmosphere would pretty pretty electric. I 100 percent disagree that the atmosphere of the state B in a 3 class system wouldn't be as electric as it is now, it might even be better.


I've heard SD is considering 4 classes this offseason
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Re: The Myth

Postby Flip » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:42 pm

Sportsrube wrote:Good post. I am kind of stuck in the middle between moving all Privates into Class A or going to a 3 class system with all the Privates in the middle or upper class. I do not buy the idea that having 3 classes would kill the B tournament, it hasn't in SD and it will not here.. I think the B would still be big and the A would be big with AA staying about the same as it is now as far as attendance, etc... The problem with 3 classes might be finding venues if you hold them on 3 separate weekends. Maybe combining Boys/Girls state tournaments for all 3 classes?

I think it's more likely the middle class and low class have their state tournaments together.
State tournaments would still be 3 weekends.
Girls A/B
Girls/Boys AA
Boys A/B

Run4Fun2009 wrote:I've heard SD is considering 4 classes this offseason

I saw something similar, but what do they know? They have 3 classes of 9 man football.
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Re: The Myth

Postby B-oldtimer » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:23 am

So what it is going to take to get to put a 3 class system together for the state? I have heard it being proposed by number of different schools and their seems to be support but the activities Association seems to kill these thrusts by just studying it to death. Two years ago it was voted on as something that needed to be done and we still haven't seen any movement towards this. I see several district chairs are bringing it up again to be discussed and these district chairs are more from the west and districts with smaller class b schools. I bet you if you put forth that football had to same number of divisions as basketball it would be done before next year. We can put forth new Football plan every couple years reshuffling the divisions moving teams up or down but god for bid we look at basketball and volleyball in similar manner. I look at South Dakota, Montana, and Minnesota all those states have moved to developing different classes of basketball but here we haven't changed in last 50 years other than moving smaller class A schools to class B. I think only way its ever going to be done is if activities association hire independent group to set it up and lets them put it together with list of certain criteria. Don't let School administrators, Activities executives, Coaches, and media have any say when putting it together then when it is completed bring it forth with a vote by all the schools. Also if it fails then all sports will adhere to two class system which we have now with exception of football because if were going to be fair equal then we should not make any exceptions. This is my sarcastic side of me coming out above for last couple sentences because I am frustrated by nothing being done. When its obvious from people posting here now and over years there are valid reasons to make changes.
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Re: The Myth

Postby The Schwab » Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:02 am

Run4Fun2009 wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
Indy5 wrote:Schwab, I'm going to address you because you seem to usually have some insight on South Dakota. Do you think SD works better because of their 3 class system? Personally, I don't. I've been to the Class B tournament at the Barnett Center at Northern State. The place seats maybe a little over 6,000, and it wasn't full. The atmosphere was fine, but it wasn't anything like the ND tournament. Saturday night was the fullest I have ever seen the Dome. Over 9,500 in attendance and it felt like it. Aside from the buzz kill of not shutting the lights off, it was a pretty electric crowd I felt. I was with someone who grew up in SD, and they were pretty jealous of what they saw from our tournament.

I understand that a system can't be designed simply around a good state tournament or a good title game. I am in favor of 2 classes. I can see the other viewpoints though. If you want 3 classes, it will be at the expense of the state tournament. That is the reality. As to whether it's worth it or not, that's subjective. Will it be completely destroyed? No, but it won't be the same.


Every single coach I've talked to in SD loves their 3 class system. As for the state class B tournament it all depends on what session you go to, the first 3 sessions of the Class B aren't that well attended, the 4th fairly well, the 5th not much at all and the 6th is always packed (probably has a lot to do with the parade of champions. I bet if you were at the final night of the SD state tournament the atmosphere would pretty pretty electric. I 100 percent disagree that the atmosphere of the state B in a 3 class system wouldn't be as electric as it is now, it might even be better.


I've heard SD is considering 4 classes this offseason


They really don't want 4 classes, that's the "West River" AD's in South Dakota fighting the "Sweet Sixteen" proposal for class B. South Dakota class A went to a sweet 16 where 2 teams from each region were seeded 1-16 and those 8 game determined who would get in the State Tournament. West River class B is fighting this because if they go to that proposal Region 8 and possibly Region 7 (with the exception of White River) would very rarely (if ever) get a team in the state tournament.
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Re: The Myth

Postby defense1st » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:11 am

ndlionsfan wrote:B-oldtimer hit on some important points. Back when I played 20 years ago, team camps were just really getting started. There was no AAU ball in the state that I knew of anyway. We started playing ball after football was done in the fall to get in shape before the season. We also had a few open gyms in the summer and played a bunch of pick up ball on the outdoor courts. It was just getting to the point where you had to play basketball year round to compete. But all of us played football, basketball, track as well and I think that played more of a role in our success than anything. I believe the coaches are seeing the value in playing multiple sports again and are promoting that more than specializing in a single sport. Hopefully that trend continues.


I can only speak of the school that I know well, but it is still very possible for student-athletes to play multiple sports and be successful in all of them.

On the North Star teams from 2008-present almost all of the players, and especially the best players, participated and excelled in multiple sports including baseball, football, track, and golf. Basketball was their best sport, and the one they spent the most time with, but it didn't detract from the other sports. They held (and as far as I know still do) open gyms during the spring and summer for players to come in and play pick-up games. The coach would open the doors but that's where his involvement stopped.

As has been stated before on this thread it's up to the players and how successful they want to be. It has always taken hard work to be good, even if that hard work happens a lot easier for some of the larger schools.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Scheeby » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:48 am

This topic is always a good talker. A few thoughts:
1. Personally, I couldn't care less if there were three classes. Yes, the small towns would empty out for a state tourney, but this tournament wouldn't get more than 4,000-5,000 in attendance. Again, I'm indifferent on the idea. Would it be cute? Yeah. But I don't think it would be the new 'State B.' The middle class would keep that distinction simply because of much better basketball.
2. Any notion that private schools should be in Class A is absolutely ridiculous, I don't think Shiloh's average class size is over 30. Same with Oak Grove. They could never compete with even the worst Class A schools. And for those of you who like to pick on them because their from bigger towns, really? Just look at the class sizes. You can argue that Central Cass and Thompson and Grafton and Des Lacs and Berthold have an advantage because of their proximity to bigger towns and more jobs for parents. But nobody picks on them. How about Watford City? What are they, up to 12,000 people with one high school? Call the schools for what they are - Oak Grove, Shiloh Christian, Trinity, and Bishop Ryan. Putting FARGO in all caps is childish.
3. On the 'big city' argument, how come the same doesn't hold true for girls??? Or for Football or Volleyball?
4. All I'm saying is, don't under-estimate the value of longevity and leadership, and what it takes to build a program. Coach Dwyer (Shiloh, now retired), Kyle Card, and Gregg Grinsteinner could build solid programs at any school with enrollments of 25-35 per class, given a few years. If you all knew what kind of program Grinsteinner inherited (he may not have won 15 games in his first three seasons combined), and how he's built it in to a legit program (the right way, I may add), you'd have greater respect for what he and others have accomplished. By the way, Trinity's graduating classes in the 60's had 120 students. In the 90's, 60-70. Today it's half that. I don't see an inherent advantage in quickly declining enrollment when the majority of the students are children of previous alums. IMO, Shiloh wins R5 this year if Dwyer is still their coach. I don't think Oak Grove was the best in R1 this year, but the program they've built carries some swagger. That swagger is earned, and they ended up representing R1 at 'The B.' If you don't want to see them, then beat them. Copy what they do and you might have a chance. Hire their coaches - they'd probably double their salary going to a public school. Right now we're in the midst of some great coaches that just happen to coach at private schools. Let's appreciate and enjoy it. Dwyer leaves for one season and a talented Shiloh squad doesn't make the R5 final. Give these schools and coaches some credit.
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Re: The Myth

Postby The Schwab » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:08 am

In response to your post, not once have I ever said that grinsteinner, dwyer, card etc... aren't good coaches and if anyone says they aren't that person doesn't understand basketball. They are great coaches who have built awesome programs. Just because a school has 30 kids in a class doesn't mean they are the same as another school who has 30 kids in a class. There are numerous advantages to not having defined school district lines, it changes every aspect of your school, right down to the kids who attend. My support of the 3 class system is based on equality, giving schools of like size and makeup a chance to compete against each other in the postseason.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Flying Wallenda » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:17 am

The Schwab wrote:In response to your post, not once have I ever said that grinsteinner, dwyer, card etc... aren't good coaches and if anyone says they aren't that person doesn't understand basketball. They are great coaches who have built awesome programs. Just because a school has 30 kids in a class doesn't mean they are the same as another school who has 30 kids in a class. There are numerous advantages to not having defined school district lines, it changes every aspect of your school, right down to the kids who attend. My support of the 3 class system is based on equality, giving schools of like size and makeup a chance to compete against each other in the postseason.


Not sure if I agree with 3 classes or not Schwabby, but this is spot on.
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Re: The Myth

Postby 3sportfan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:21 am

The Schwab wrote:In response to your post, not once have I ever said that grinsteinner, dwyer, card etc... aren't good coaches and if anyone says they aren't that person doesn't understand basketball. They are great coaches who have built awesome programs. Just because a school has 30 kids in a class doesn't mean they are the same as another school who has 30 kids in a class. There are numerous advantages to not having defined school district lines, it changes every aspect of your school, right down to the kids who attend. My support of the 3 class system is based on equality, giving schools of like size and makeup a chance to compete against each other in the postseason.



I think you nailed it here, its not about the X's and O's its about the Jonny and Joes, the kids walking the hallways of the privates are not the same kids walking the halls of the Hazen's, Beulah's, Grafton's, Rugby's or any of the other big B schools. That is the biggest advantage that the privates have along with the larger population to draw kids from. For the record, I'm still not sure 3 class system would fix all this.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Flip » Fri Mar 24, 2017 9:52 am

I like that theory: get a good coach.

Oak Grove job is open the and Griggs County Central job is open. Who do you think is going to get the better applicants?
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Re: The Myth

Postby 3sportfan » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:17 am

I hope you didn't take my post as good coaches don't matter because the above named coaches of the privates are some of the best around.
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Re: The Myth

Postby The Schwab » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:23 am

The difference between perceived good coaches and great coaches is talent.
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