The Myth

Class B Boys
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The Myth

Postby heimer » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:05 pm

Already the myth is re-enforced.

TV coverage shows the bracket. No "Fargo" in front of Oak Grove, no "Minot" in front of Bishop Ryan.

Yep, great small-school tournament.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Sportsrube » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:27 pm

HA! Good one. ABC does have Dickinson Trinity on the scoreboard on TV. Bet Bismarck is feeling really bad about not being represented.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Flip » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:49 pm

maybe it's just so they can fit it on the bracket.
NDHSAA twitter account is saying "Dickinson Trinity"
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Re: The Myth

Postby heimer » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:56 pm

They have minimized the lettering before. And it's five letters.........for both of them.

Sorry, not buying it.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Bisonguy06 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:19 pm

Took five minutes after tipoff for Heimer to complain about the B.

What took so long?
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Re: The Myth

Postby heimer » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:30 pm

I actually got in before tipoff.
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Re: The Myth

Postby heimer » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:32 pm

Great finish to the first game.

Remember that run and gun, race you to 70 allure of the myth?

Nah.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Bisonguy06 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:37 pm

LOL. You found a way to complain about a 3 point buzzer beater with the small school beating the parochial. You're too good.
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Re: The Myth

Postby heimer » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:40 pm

That 23-2 run was enough to stagnate me. The game ends on a broken play and a defender that fails to close out.

Not the myth I hear, with all of it's pressure defense and run-and-gun scoring.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Bisonguy06 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:45 pm

"The myth" is a straw man that you've created in all your free time. Enjoy tearing it down. And enjoy the tourney.
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Re: The Myth

Postby heimer » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:57 pm

It seems to get under your skin.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Bisonguy06 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 3:19 pm

Guilty as charged. But you wouldn't have any fun if this was just your echo chamber. See you on the next thread.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Bisonguy06 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:21 am

Remember folks, it's all a myth.
See you next year, Heimer.
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Re: The Myth

Postby heimer » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:33 pm

Yep, while you beat your chest over a missed defensive assignment that turned into a wide open three, remember that teams from Dickinson, Minot, and Fargo occupied spots that should have gone to three truly small-school teams.

So, fall all over yourselves about your joyous tourney that, again, was a Class A- tournament, not Class B.

A tournament is more than its title game.

Hats off to H-CV. We go to church with the Henningsgards. Fantastic family, great kids. Couldn't go to a better young man. I'll be seeing him on a diamond in a couple of weeks. He is, and they are, great there also.

That being said, my fellow voters in the poll can take their ballots and choke on them. It was unprecedented that Four Winds didn't give up their #1 ranking after losing to H-CV in the regular season. The vote organizer could not remember a time in the B po where the top-ranked team lost and remained #1. I was the lone voter to cast a ballot for someone else. The poll was, and is, a co-conspirator in perpetuating the myth, and they got caught with their pants down.

Yeah, I went there. Sorry not sorry.

Keep ignoring the A and blessing the B. Whenever you're ready for a one-class system, the EDC and WDA will be waiting.
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Re: The Myth

Postby heimer » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:51 pm

Here is a partial quote from the exchange I had with one voter who cast a ballot for FW-M after their loss to H-CV:

"I can't recall a #1 team ever retaining #1 in Class B after losing to another Class B team. It's happened after losing to an A team or out-of-state team, sure.

I think the game benefits the Indians way more, and they won't let this happen again."

I will correct one thing: three voters switched votes, 11 didn't. Those other two voters were back in the FW-M camp within a couple weeks.

The poll helps create the myth. It writes the storyline.
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Re: The Myth

Postby ndlionsfan » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:06 pm

how does FW being #1 instead of HCV create the myth? Both are larger B schools. Its not like FW was Epping or something.
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Re: The Myth

Postby heimer » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:16 am

It's not about H-CV being #1. If memory serves, they were unrated before they beat FW-M in the regular season. They certainly wouldn't have made the leap to #1.

It's about the pollsters sticking to a storyline, and we all know what that storyline is. We all know how tough life can be at a reservation school. My step-mom teaches at probably the worst one in South Dakota. I hear the stories first-hand.

Along comes a team from a school that can win a state title. They were denied by Rugby, then took one last year, and they're trying to repeat. What a great storyline. And the B tournament would be awesome if we could keep them #1 coming in and watch as they win the thing.

The pollsters refused to back off of their storyline when H-CV clipped Four Winds' wings, and voted them #1 anyway. Again, first time in the history of the poll, so said the organizer, that the top spot didn't change after the #1 team lost, and they lost to an unrated team that, at the time, wasn't even considered the best team in their region.

The hardcore B fans among us would love to point to the title game and say the tournament was a great tournament. It wasn't. There were three schools from Dickinson, Minot, and Fargo that don't belong there. And the pollsters, trust me, are quite unhappy that three went down at the horn.
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Re: The Myth

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:50 am

Who else do you think should have moved to #1 that week? About the only legitimate contender could have been Shiloh, who did get three first place votes after receiving none the week before. 1, 2, 4, and 5 all lost that week. The three undefeated teams left were 8,9,10 and like you said, probably too big of a jump to go all the way to 1. HCV was sitting at just 6-2 after the win, not a big enough resume to make the jump and they did go from NR to 7. That early in the season it's just too hard to rank teams until they start playing some common opponents and get more games under their belt. Do some pollsters probably want to have a good story coming into the tournament? Sure. Does that change the tournament? No. Do coaches follow the poll to seed the teams at state? Highly doubt it.

I thought it was a great tourney. Would I have rather seen Berthold/DLB, Hankinson/Richland, or a small school from Region 7? No doubt. But the private schools went 4-5 in the tournament and finished 4, 5, and 6. It was nice to see Ellendale, a team that hadn't been in the tourney for over 30 years, knock off Trinity and Oak Grove. It was also nice to see Stanley in the tournament for the first time since the 30s. Crowd and atmosphere were great as well.
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Re: The Myth

Postby heimer » Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:56 am

If #1 loses, you find someone else to vote for.

Eleven people didn't.

Shiloh should have been #1.

Again, it's not about who you picked. It's about writing a storyline. The sports media in this state loves a storyline. They are always falling all over themselves to try to write the narrative, and then pat themselves on the back for their ingenuity.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Flip » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:11 am

heimer wrote:If #1 loses, you find someone else to vote for.

Eleven people didn't.

Shiloh should have been #1.

Again, it's not about who you picked. It's about writing a storyline. The sports media in this state loves a storyline. They are always falling all over themselves to try to write the narrative, and then pat themselves on the back for their ingenuity.

Zero reason to put have anyone but FWM #1 at that point they still had the most impressive season to that point.

You have a lot of valid points (in general, not on this) and then you have lot of total not cool that you make up.
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Re: The Myth

Postby The Schwab » Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:55 am

Heimer, I agree with certain points you've made in this thread. I agree that there weren't many of the "class b" schools that everyone loves to cheer for at this years state B. The tournament had some very good games and some not very good games. I enjoyed the championship game, like most people did. It will be how I remember the state tournament.

I don't agree with you that people vote in the polls based on the "feel good story", but you know more people in the media then I do, so maybe you are right. If Shiloh would have moved up to number 1 after FWM lost I could have understood it, at that point Shiloh had one loss by 6 on the road to Dickinson Trinity (a team that FWM beat by 30 on a neutral floor a couple weeks prior to the HCV loss). If I had a vote in the poll I think I would have still voted for FWM as the number 1 team just based on the common opponent with Shiloh (the only team at that point of the year that should have been in the discussion). My vote wouldn't have anything to do with the "feel good story", if I wanted to play into that I would have voted for St John at that time in the year.
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Re: The Myth

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:35 am

One thing I will agree with Heimer about is the feel good story about it being the best finish in the 85 year history of the B. People have short memories. NRS/Botno in 2005, Leeds/DT in 99, WC/Munich is 91 are ones just as good that come to mind immediately. I'm sure there have been plenty more as well. Great tournament, great championship game, but the B has delivered many of those moments for years.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Flying Wallenda » Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:52 am

ndlionsfan wrote:One thing I will agree with Heimer about is the feel good story about it being the best finish in the 85 year history of the B. People have short memories. NRS/Botno in 2005, Leeds/DT in 99, WC/Munich is 91 are ones just as good that come to mind immediately. I'm sure there have been plenty more as well. Great tournament, great championship game, but the B has delivered many of those moments for years.


I remember NRS-Botno - last second shot by cudworth off the glass, great game. Was Leeds-DT a buzzer beater? WC-Munich - good game, but WC had it won (Munich hit shot on buzzer to pull within a point or 2 I believe).

The thing about HCV - FW was that FW lead the entire way (after the 1st quarter) until 1:30 left in the 4th - HCV's gun struggles all night, comes alive, FW answers, HCV answers, FW takes an ill advised shot, HCV puts one in off of the roof - the best class b state title game ever? I can't say that, but that game ranks WAY up in the past 35 years that I've been following.
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Re: The Myth

Postby Bisonguy06 » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:13 am

In the last 13 years, 13 different teams have won the B boys title. Eleven of them are public schools, and they represent every shape and size and every region in the state except for Region 5.
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Re: The Myth

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:27 am

Flying Wallenda wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:One thing I will agree with Heimer about is the feel good story about it being the best finish in the 85 year history of the B. People have short memories. NRS/Botno in 2005, Leeds/DT in 99, WC/Munich is 91 are ones just as good that come to mind immediately. I'm sure there have been plenty more as well. Great tournament, great championship game, but the B has delivered many of those moments for years.


I remember NRS-Botno - last second shot by cudworth off the glass, great game. Was Leeds-DT a buzzer beater? WC-Munich - good game, but WC had it won (Munich hit shot on buzzer to pull within a point or 2 I believe).

The thing about HCV - FW was that FW lead the entire way (after the 1st quarter) until 1:30 left in the 4th - HCV's gun struggles all night, comes alive, FW answers, HCV answers, FW takes an ill advised shot, HCV puts one in off of the roof - the best class b state title game ever? I can't say that, but that game ranks WAY up in the past 35 years that I've been following.


Completely agree it ranks way up there. I just hesitate to say greatest of all time. I'd like to see how much of the game HCV actually led. Couldn't have been more than a minute. Great game, great ending.

Leeds hit a 3 with about 10 seconds left to go up by one on DT then blocked their shot at the buzzer to preserve the win over undefeated DT. Right up there with this game as well as NRS/Botno. Lots of great moments in B history.
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