Forget or embrace?

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Forget or embrace?

Postby ReadyToPlay » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:22 pm

Now that the districts are wrapped up for this year, I was wondering if any fans, coaches, or players of districts that had tournaments have any opinions of the subject such as: thought they were beneficial, brought the locals in, helped kept the teams sharp, etc. These districts that played were #5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,15,16. Is your opinion to keep them or would you like them taken away in lieu of super region format where you don't play for 10 to 14 days before your regional?
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby wan2bqb » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:21 pm

I can only speak to what I know but 2 teams in Region 1 had long breaks before their first games, M-NS and Northern Cass. And that was because they were supposed to play each other the last week and it was rescheduled to have a boys and girls double header I believe. Other wise most teams went from Friday to Tuesday which is typical. The 3 region leaders get an extra 6 day break which in my opinion could be both an advantage and disadvantage, dependent on the health of your team. If all the regions were on the same schedule there would be no reason for the lull. Give every team a couple more games during the regular season. I for one like the regional play ins and I believe that being in them is being in the tournament because just like a tournament no one is reseeded again the first round. I am in favor of the one and done because it makes all the games important. I loved districts and am learning to love Regionals because I wont call it super regionals I think that name is silly.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby Sportsrube » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:32 pm

Speaking only for me, District 6 had a very good tournament. A lot of close games and very good crowds all 3 nights. Our District and Region is made up of mostly small towns and maybe that makes a difference. The atmosphere was great and I think the players all enjoyed it. I hope our Region keeps the District Tournaments.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:33 pm

I also don't think they should call them play-in games. The teams playing in them are in the tournament. It should be called first round/quarters/semis/finals. Not a big deal really, but I think it would go a long ways to creating the tournament atmosphere in everyone's head.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby EHS1998 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:59 pm

For District 5, there really weren't a lot of close games, especially on the top side, until the Championship game, which in my opinion, was an instant classic with great crowds from each side really into it in a very positive way.

However, I think what is better evidence of the value of District tournaments is what Midkota did. The Midkota crowd during the Oakes game was exceptional. You could tell how much it meant to them. Oakes and EKM was well always seem to have great crowd participation at the District tournament.

I hope districts never go away completely but I do understand the other side of the argument.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:12 am

EHS1998 wrote:For District 5, there really weren't a lot of close games, especially on the top side, until the Championship game, which in my opinion, was an instant classic with great crowds from each side really into it in a very positive way.

However, I think what is better evidence of the value of District tournaments is what Midkota did. The Midkota crowd during the Oakes game was exceptional. You could tell how much it meant to them. Oakes and EKM was well always seem to have great crowd participation at the District tournament.

I hope districts never go away completely but I do understand the other side of the argument.


If Midkota and Oakes had met in the first round or quarters of a super-region format, would it still have had that atmosphere and meaning?
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby ReadyToPlay » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:09 am

In a super region format, yes, meaning alone for only the two teams involved would be the same, but the atmosphere leading up to the game wouldn't be there. As a former player, now fan, I will attest to sitting in the stands of a packed auditorium before our game. The waiting and anticipation to get on the floor, along with the shear magnitude of the crowd (usually 8 towns worth of fans) in a district tourney setting creates excitement, where as you don't draw an additional crowd with a super region single play-in game. When they have to open doors to cool the crowd off, then you know that you are in a tournament atmosphere. I still concur with other posts that if we are all going to be in a super regions format for the foreseeable future, at least have these super region play-in games at one common site to grasp a hint of tournament atmosphere.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby wem » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:41 pm

LionsFan; the statement you make about they shouldn't be called playin games makes me ask the question; What difference does it make? Are you worried about hurt feelings? Very interested in your response?
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby wan2bqb » Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:42 am

wem wrote:LionsFan; the statement you make about they shouldn't be called playin games makes me ask the question; What difference does it make? Are you worried about hurt feelings? Very interested in your response?


I'll answer with my reasoning, it shouldn't be called a super regional just a regional because that's what it is. Also it is set up without reseeding of the "play in" teams. Its a bracket formula with a 1st round, quarter final, semi's and finals. Call it what it is a regional tournament with 4 rounds and 3 byes given. Until the reseed the teams after the first round it is a single tournament. Period! My opinion is the three regions currently in the "super regional" format wanted to feel special therefore the "Super" name.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby scc » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:12 pm

wan2bqb wrote:
wem wrote:LionsFan; the statement you make about they shouldn't be called playin games makes me ask the question; What difference does it make? Are you worried about hurt feelings? Very interested in your response?


I'll answer with my reasoning, it shouldn't be called a super regional just a regional because that's what it is. Also it is set up without reseeding of the "play in" teams. Its a bracket formula with a 1st round, quarter final, semi's and finals. Call it what it is a regional tournament with 4 rounds and 3 byes given. Until the reseed the teams after the first round it is a single tournament. Period! My opinion is the three regions currently in the "super regional" format wanted to feel special therefore the "Super" name.

YES! Thank you for this post.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby theallaroundballer » Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:59 pm

Super regions are a step in the right direction, but can be improved in several ways. My solution that I think would benefit athletes, fans, and communities the most is as follows:

I want a 23 game regular season for every team. There's more than enough time in early November (girls) and early December (boys), as well as over Christmas break, to accommodate an expanded regular season. The almost two-week layoff before tournament play for the top seeds in the current super regions is absurd. Kids should not have to practice for that long this deep in the season before a game. News flash to the Activities Association, more games= more $$ to schools and happier kids. Contrary to their logic, students having to leave school two periods early for at a max of four additional road games is not going to perpetually stunt their educational growth. Tragic, I know.

Now as far as the schedule goes, current district alignments are kept, but the tournament is conducted as a super regional. Every team plays everyone in their region once, teams in your district twice, and the rest are non-region games until you hit a total of 23. I'm from Region 4, which has seven teams in D7 and six teams in D8. So, teams play 12 region opponents, 5 or 6 additional games against district opponents, and either five or six non-region games for a 23 game regular season. You're better served to have region teams make up the bulk of your regular season so you're familiar with them if you meet in the tournament.

And a few non-region games allow historical rivalries to be preserved that would otherwise disappear if a team were to switch regions. Now I understand it's tougher for Regions 6 and 8 with 15 teams (only two or three non-region games). But the best rivalries are among teams in those regions anyway, and there's so many schools within the Minot and Williston areas now, realignment is almost nonexistent for them.

Tournament time- Regions 3,4, and 5 (13 teams): Top three teams get byes. Regions 6 and 8 (15 teams): #1 seed gets bye. Sub-quarterfinal matchups are held at a common venue, NOT at higher seeds' home sites, on Friday. It's the only way to retain a true tournament atmosphere throughout. And the traditional 8 team field held Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday after that. Not very difficult to implement and the three current super regions have handled it well, albeit with some hiccups. But this format is the future of B basketball; it's time to embrace it and stop letting your nostalgia for district tourneys in the 70s and 80s blind you from this reality. Would love to get people's opinions on this and hear feedback on this.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby wan2bqb » Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:28 pm

theallaroundballer wrote:Super regions are a step in the right direction, but can be improved in several ways. My solution that I think would benefit athletes, fans, and communities the most is as follows:

I want a 23 game regular season for every team. There's more than enough time in early November (girls) and early December (boys), as well as over Christmas break, to accommodate an expanded regular season. The almost two-week layoff before tournament play for the top seeds in the current super regions is absurd. Kids should not have to practice for that long this deep in the season before a game. News flash to the Activities Association, more games= more $$ to schools and happier kids. Contrary to their logic, students having to leave school two periods early for at a max of four additional road games is not going to perpetually stunt their educational growth. Tragic, I know.

Now as far as the schedule goes, current district alignments are kept, but the tournament is conducted as a super regional. Every team plays everyone in their region once, teams in your district twice, and the rest are non-region games until you hit a total of 23. I'm from Region 4, which has seven teams in D7 and six teams in D8. So, teams play 12 region opponents, 5 or 6 additional games against district opponents, and either five or six non-region games for a 23 game regular season. You're better served to have region teams make up the bulk of your regular season so you're familiar with them if you meet in the tournament.

And a few non-region games allow historical rivalries to be preserved that would otherwise disappear if a team were to switch regions. Now I understand it's tougher for Regions 6 and 8 with 15 teams (only two or three non-region games). But the best rivalries are among teams in those regions anyway, and there's so many schools within the Minot and Williston areas now, realignment is almost nonexistent for them.

Tournament time- Regions 3,4, and 5 (13 teams): Top three teams get byes. Regions 6 and 8 (15 teams): #1 seed gets bye. Sub-quarterfinal matchups are held at a common venue, NOT at higher seeds' home sites, on Friday. It's the only way to retain a true tournament atmosphere throughout. And the traditional 8 team field held Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday after that. Not very difficult to implement and the three current super regions have handled it well, albeit with some hiccups. But this format is the future of B basketball; it's time to embrace it and stop letting your nostalgia for district tourneys in the 70s and 80s blind you from this reality. Would love to get people's opinions on this and hear feedback on this.

100% in favor of 23 games. Dont know if you need to make the district thing (2games) mandatory. But you could allow teams to set there own schedule. Most would follow this because of distance of travel but not all. Allows the stronger programs the chance to find tougher games, and allows rebilding rograms the chance to find better compitition.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby theallaroundballer » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:21 pm

wan2bqb wrote:
theallaroundballer wrote:Super regions are a step in the right direction, but can be improved in several ways. My solution that I think would benefit athletes, fans, and communities the most is as follows:

I want a 23 game regular season for every team. There's more than enough time in early November (girls) and early December (boys), as well as over Christmas break, to accommodate an expanded regular season. The almost two-week layoff before tournament play for the top seeds in the current super regions is absurd. Kids should not have to practice for that long this deep in the season before a game. News flash to the Activities Association, more games= more $$ to schools and happier kids. Contrary to their logic, students having to leave school two periods early for at a max of four additional road games is not going to perpetually stunt their educational growth. Tragic, I know.

Now as far as the schedule goes, current district alignments are kept, but the tournament is conducted as a super regional. Every team plays everyone in their region once, teams in your district twice, and the rest are non-region games until you hit a total of 23. I'm from Region 4, which has seven teams in D7 and six teams in D8. So, teams play 12 region opponents, 5 or 6 additional games against district opponents, and either five or six non-region games for a 23 game regular season. You're better served to have region teams make up the bulk of your regular season so you're familiar with them if you meet in the tournament.

And a few non-region games allow historical rivalries to be preserved that would otherwise disappear if a team were to switch regions. Now I understand it's tougher for Regions 6 and 8 with 15 teams (only two or three non-region games). But the best rivalries are among teams in those regions anyway, and there's so many schools within the Minot and Williston areas now, realignment is almost nonexistent for them.

Tournament time- Regions 3,4, and 5 (13 teams): Top three teams get byes. Regions 6 and 8 (15 teams): #1 seed gets bye. Sub-quarterfinal matchups are held at a common venue, NOT at higher seeds' home sites, on Friday. It's the only way to retain a true tournament atmosphere throughout. And the traditional 8 team field held Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday after that. Not very difficult to implement and the three current super regions have handled it well, albeit with some hiccups. But this format is the future of B basketball; it's time to embrace it and stop letting your nostalgia for district tourneys in the 70s and 80s blind you from this reality. Would love to get people's opinions on this and hear feedback on this.

100% in favor of 23 games. Dont know if you need to make the district thing (2games) mandatory. But you could allow teams to set there own schedule. Most would follow this because of distance of travel but not all. Allows the stronger programs the chance to find tougher games, and allows rebilding rograms the chance to find better compitition.


The 2 game districts don't have to be mandatory, no. If teams want to play them twice, play half once a year on a rotational basis, or just play everybody once, is totally fine with me. I just want to see more games. Most teams play 19 in the reg. season, and there's multiple week-plus layoffs throughout the winter for teams. The memories kids make from high school are on the court, the field, the diamond, building lifelong friendships and having stories to tell to their kids. They're not made in a class they'll forgot all the material from over the summer. Kids deserve to have more opportunities to perform in front of a home crowd. It lets people from the community socialize, catch up, reminisce about their younger days. This is starting to stop schmaltzy so I'll stop here, but I guarantee almost everybody supports this, except of course for the jamokes in Valley City running the show. It's a shame.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby OldSchoolBaller » Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:56 pm

theallaroundballer wrote:Super regions are a step in the right direction, but can be improved in several ways. My solution that I think would benefit athletes, fans, and communities the most is as follows:

I want a 23 game regular season for every team. There's more than enough time in early November (girls) and early December (boys), as well as over Christmas break, to accommodate an expanded regular season. The almost two-week layoff before tournament play for the top seeds in the current super regions is absurd. Kids should not have to practice for that long this deep in the season before a game. News flash to the Activities Association, more games= more $$ to schools and happier kids. Contrary to their logic, students having to leave school two periods early for at a max of four additional road games is not going to perpetually stunt their educational growth. Tragic, I know.

Now as far as the schedule goes, current district alignments are kept, but the tournament is conducted as a super regional. Every team plays everyone in their region once, teams in your district twice, and the rest are non-region games until you hit a total of 23. I'm from Region 4, which has seven teams in D7 and six teams in D8. So, teams play 12 region opponents, 5 or 6 additional games against district opponents, and either five or six non-region games for a 23 game regular season. You're better served to have region teams make up the bulk of your regular season so you're familiar with them if you meet in the tournament.

And a few non-region games allow historical rivalries to be preserved that would otherwise disappear if a team were to switch regions. Now I understand it's tougher for Regions 6 and 8 with 15 teams (only two or three non-region games). But the best rivalries are among teams in those regions anyway, and there's so many schools within the Minot and Williston areas now, realignment is almost nonexistent for them.

Tournament time- Regions 3,4, and 5 (13 teams): Top three teams get byes. Regions 6 and 8 (15 teams): #1 seed gets bye. Sub-quarterfinal matchups are held at a common venue, NOT at higher seeds' home sites, on Friday. It's the only way to retain a true tournament atmosphere throughout. And the traditional 8 team field held Monday, Tuesday, and Thursday after that. Not very difficult to implement and the three current super regions have handled it well, albeit with some hiccups. But this format is the future of B basketball; it's time to embrace it and stop letting your nostalgia for district tourneys in the 70s and 80s blind you from this reality. Would love to get people's opinions on this and hear feedback on this.




I love this, but as discussed on an earlier thread, the only problem I see is the games being on friday. Unless you are proposing to move Girls State B.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby ndlionsfan » Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:55 pm

scc wrote:
wan2bqb wrote:
wem wrote:LionsFan; the statement you make about they shouldn't be called playin games makes me ask the question; What difference does it make? Are you worried about hurt feelings? Very interested in your response?


I'll answer with my reasoning, it shouldn't be called a super regional just a regional because that's what it is. Also it is set up without reseeding of the "play in" teams. Its a bracket formula with a 1st round, quarter final, semi's and finals. Call it what it is a regional tournament with 4 rounds and 3 byes given. Until the reseed the teams after the first round it is a single tournament. Period! My opinion is the three regions currently in the "super regional" format wanted to feel special therefore the "Super" name.

YES! Thank you for this post.


My exact reasoning as well
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby NodakQ2 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:01 pm

As long as they get rid of Districts, I don't care what they call it. Maybe when the remaining Districts "convert", we can call them "Super Duper Regionals"
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby Flip » Sun Mar 05, 2017 10:33 pm

theallaroundballer wrote:
The 2 game districts don't have to be mandatory, no. If teams want to play them twice, play half once a year on a rotational basis, or just play everybody once, is totally fine with me. I just want to see more games. Most teams play 19 in the reg. season, and there's multiple week-plus layoffs throughout the winter for teams. The memories kids make from high school are on the court, the field, the diamond, building lifelong friendships and having stories to tell to their kids. They're not made in a class they'll forgot all the material from over the summer. Kids deserve to have more opportunities to perform in front of a home crowd. It lets people from the community socialize, catch up, reminisce about their younger days. This is starting to stop schmaltzy so I'll stop here, but I guarantee almost everybody supports this, except of course for the jamokes in Valley City running the show. It's a shame.

Just do the same format Regions 1 and 2 use. I'm guessing it's the same for 7 too. Definitely down for 23 games though.

As for the bolded I'm quite confident Rick Smith is against this idea.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby theallaroundballer » Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:44 am

Flip wrote:
theallaroundballer wrote:
The 2 game districts don't have to be mandatory, no. If teams want to play them twice, play half once a year on a rotational basis, or just play everybody once, is totally fine with me. I just want to see more games. Most teams play 19 in the reg. season, and there's multiple week-plus layoffs throughout the winter for teams. The memories kids make from high school are on the court, the field, the diamond, building lifelong friendships and having stories to tell to their kids. They're not made in a class they'll forgot all the material from over the summer. Kids deserve to have more opportunities to perform in front of a home crowd. It lets people from the community socialize, catch up, reminisce about their younger days. This is starting to stop schmaltzy so I'll stop here, but I guarantee almost everybody supports this, except of course for the jamokes in Valley City running the show. It's a shame.

Just do the same format Regions 1 and 2 use. I'm guessing it's the same for 7 too. Definitely down for 23 games though.

As for the bolded I'm quite confident Rick Smith is against this idea.


Exactly, the same format is used for each region, and the number of byes are simply adjusted for the number of teams in each region. Why would he be against it? It gives FW-M a chance to schedule even more competitive teams before getting into district play. I would've loved to see them play St. John in the regular season this year. But since Region 4 is still segregated by districts, the only D8 teams they scheduled this year were North Star and Dunseith. Yet they traveled to Beulah, Shiloh, Hillsboro, and Minot for the Our Redeemer's and Hoopster Shooutouts. I love that they schedule strong teams across the state, but more games gives you an opportunity to play strong teams you're actually going to see in the region tournament that you can't schedule otherwise.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby ndlionsfan » Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:07 pm

Actually the only Dist 8 team they had scheduled was Dunseith. Just met up with North Star in the championship of the Ramsey Co Tourney.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby HighSchoolSportsFan » Sat Apr 01, 2017 11:44 pm

theallaroundballer wrote:Super regions are a step in the right direction, but can be improved in several ways. My solution that I think would benefit athletes, fans, and communities the most is as follows:

I want a 23 game regular season for every team. There's more than enough time in early November (girls) and early December (boys), as well as over Christmas break, to accommodate an expanded regular season. The almost two-week layoff before tournament play for the top seeds in the current super regions is absurd. Kids should not have to practice for that long this deep in the season before a game. News flash to the Activities Association, more games= more $$ to schools and happier kids. Contrary to their logic, students having to leave school two periods early for at a max of four additional road games is not going to perpetually stunt their educational growth. Tragic, I know.


I don't know if I agree with this based on the current calendar. I don't know where you are going to find time in early November for additional girls games. For any team advancing to the state tournament in VB there is no break between seasons. The state VB tournament ended on Saturday, Nov. 19. Girls BB practice actually started on the week of the state VB tournament so team participating in the state VB actually missed the initial practices in that season. I believe the first allowable games in GBB this season were played on Nov. 26. There were girls who likely had a Sunday off between their last VB game and their first BB practice and maybe 10 days between their last VB game and first BB game.
This compares to FB whose state championship games were played on Nov. 11 and whose first games were played on December 9th with practices starting around Nov. 25 or so (I was too lazy to look up the exact date).
Add in the fact that track practice starts before the end of BB season and you potentially have some 3 sport athletes that do not have any time off between seasons. Before we start looking at extending the BB season I think there are other scheduling issues that need to be addressed.
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Re: Forget or embrace?

Postby winner-within » Mon Apr 03, 2017 12:53 pm

I personally think "Super Region" evolved from "Big" .....and this is just a thought out assumption of mine but my train of thought is that now this area of 2 districts just became 1 area and so along with all the other rules that went along with this format the word "Super" honed into it....was the term given by the NDHSAA? I don't know this but it sounds better than "Big Region" or "Big District" and could certainly be looked at as a marketing tool for the ones declining it or lets say refraining from it for the time being....in other words I don't thing "Super" means great in this setting but rather "Big"....as in Big area

in some cases if there is only 5 or 6 teams in a district, than you have to evaluate and see if that tournament is essential in more aspects than not
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