6 fouls

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6 fouls

Postby ReadyToPlay » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:15 am

Anyone on board with going to 6 fouls instead of 5? It seems to me that if a game changing player gets one touchy foul combined with a legit one in the first half, the coach out of necessity almost has to sit him. There are many times, especially in tournament play where the stakes are high, allowing 6 fouls wouldn't be a bad idea, IMO, since they have worked their tails off all year to get there.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby hoophoophoop » Wed Mar 01, 2017 9:31 am

especially if you have the refs in region 1, every time someone touched someone the whistle blew, very frustrating, let the boys play
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby The Schwab » Wed Mar 01, 2017 11:05 am

If refs called the game the way the rule book states, there would be a lot more fouls called during the course of the game then people are used to.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby wan2bqb » Wed Mar 01, 2017 3:47 pm

So your in favor of 6 fouls?? Then what? Go to an NBA style 3 maybe 4 steps, as long as your going towards the hoop? How about your only required to put the ball on the ground and dribble, IF you cant carry it the length of the floor in a couple strides? Teams could institute the hack a shaq because most high school teams only go 8 deep so that gives you an extra 42 fouls to use, against that one regional team that was lucky they have a kid that is 6'5" and can catch, after all they don't have an answer for him and they have worked all year to get here. How about the teams with the really quick kids have to tie their shoelaces together so that the other team can keep up, after all they have been working all year to get here. Call the game how it should be called consistently, kids will learn to play defense, don't fall for the flops and over reactions like the kids just got his hand chopped of by a samurai, call a foul a foul, a carry a carry, a double dribble what it it and the kids will adjust or they will have the best seat in the house right next to the coach.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby HONKER » Wed Mar 01, 2017 4:51 pm

The Schwab wrote:If refs called the game the way the rule book states, there would be a lot more fouls called during the course of the game then people are used to.

The players would adjust. All 6 fouls would do is help the teams with a much deeper, better bench.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby The Schwab » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:06 pm

HONKER wrote:
The Schwab wrote:If refs called the game the way the rule book states, there would be a lot more fouls called during the course of the game then people are used to.

The players would adjust. All 6 fouls would do is help the teams with a much deeper, better bench.


Players would adjust eventually you are right, I am not in favor of 6 fouls at all, I was referencing a point in the previous post commenting about region 1 officials. If games were called like the rule book says you would see a lot higher scoring games and a lot less contact.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby Sportsrube » Wed Mar 01, 2017 5:35 pm

wan2bqb wrote:So your in favor of 6 fouls?? Then what? Go to an NBA style 3 maybe 4 steps, as long as your going towards the hoop? How about your only required to put the ball on the ground and dribble, IF you cant carry it the length of the floor in a couple strides? Teams could institute the hack a shaq because most high school teams only go 8 deep so that gives you an extra 42 fouls to use, against that one regional team that was lucky they have a kid that is 6'5" and can catch, after all they don't have an answer for him and they have worked all year to get here. How about the teams with the really quick kids have to tie their shoelaces together so that the other team can keep up, after all they have been working all year to get here. Call the game how it should be called consistently, kids will learn to play defense, don't fall for the flops and over reactions like the kids just got his hand chopped of by a samurai, call a foul a foul, a carry a carry, a double dribble what it it and the kids will adjust or they will have the best seat in the house right next to the coach.


Could not agree more! We don't need to go to 6 fouls. Where does it say in the rule book that the best player on each team can't be called for a foul? If Refs are consistent most players and coaches will adjust and this is not a problem. We have made enough changes to the HS game in the last few years, leave it alone, HS does not need to emulate colleges or pros.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby leroybla » Wed Mar 01, 2017 7:36 pm

No need for 6 fouls when you're playing 4- 8 minute quarters. The pro game is much longer, hence more fouls, and it is ShowBiz.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby d_fense » Wed Mar 01, 2017 10:56 pm

HONKER wrote:
The Schwab wrote:If refs called the game the way the rule book states, there would be a lot more fouls called during the course of the game then people are used to.

The players would adjust. All 6 fouls would do is help the teams with a much deeper, better bench.


Honker, please explain to me why 6 fouls would help the team with the better, deeper bench. To me, it would do the exact opposite. It would help the team with a weak bench that could not afford to have a starter sit...
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby HONKER » Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:57 am

d_fense wrote:
HONKER wrote:
The Schwab wrote:If refs called the game the way the rule book states, there would be a lot more fouls called during the course of the game then people are used to.

The players would adjust. All 6 fouls would do is help the teams with a much deeper, better bench.


Honker, please explain to me why 6 fouls would help the team with the better, deeper bench. To me, it would do the exact opposite. It would help the team with a weak bench that could not afford to have a starter sit...

If you have a team that plays 9 or 10 kids it'll allow them to play more aggressively on a team with only 5 or 6 kids. We also know what happens when the games start getting out of control. 6 fouls would just fuel the fire. If the kids play the game the way it's supposed to be played 5 fouls are great plenty.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby d_fense » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:52 am

I see no reason to move from 5. But Honker, if you have 9 or 10 kids who deserve time, you can play very aggressive with the five fouls allowed. 6 would help teams that are not deep much more than deep teams.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby ProudPirate » Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:19 pm

No to 6 fouls. You need to play smarter. I'm not an official, but if you want to complain about them then go out & try doing it. What I don't see is kids with basketball smarts. Yes officials make mistakes we all do, but there are many times i see kids getting called for fouls because they are out of position or being somewhere they shouldn't be. Sure they may have all ball but you need to watch the body too. I see it alot where kids block a shot great, but they blow the other kid over to do it, sorry, that's a foul. I'm a defensive guy who liked to play against bigger players, so i don't mind physical but pushing your way to the basket isn't basketball to me, of course i don't like the NBA either.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby wem » Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:03 pm

Ditto to proud pirate. Big time NO. Learn to play D.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby heimer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:17 pm

I think, for Class B boys basketball only, we should go to eight fouls and expand to 12 minute quarters. We clearly need longer games so we can sell more as time for TV coverage, since that is what drives every single athletic effort in North Dakota ever ever ever.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby HONKER » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:24 pm

heimer wrote:I think, for Class B boys basketball only, we should go to eight fouls and expand to 12 minute quarters. We clearly need longer games so we can sell more as time for TV coverage, since that is what drives every single athletic effort in North Dakota ever ever ever.

Get a life.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby heimer » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:28 pm

Got one. Happy with it. Thanks again!

Okay, 7 fouls, but an extra media time out.

And get rid of the shot clock. We should get to hold the ball for two minutes. It's the Kool Aid way!

Why are some shots worth three points? That's dumb.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby canoworms » Sun Mar 05, 2017 5:51 pm

Why are some shots only worth one point (free throw) should be able to call what every points you want its free
right?
I'll go lay by my dish.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby Bisonguy06 » Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:22 pm

ReadyToPlay wrote:Anyone on board with going to 6 fouls instead of 5? It seems to me that if a game changing player gets one touchy foul combined with a legit one in the first half, the coach out of necessity almost has to sit him. There are many times, especially in tournament play where the stakes are high, allowing 6 fouls wouldn't be a bad idea, IMO, since they have worked their tails off all year to get there.


The high schooler who gets 5 fouls in a 32 minute game is allowed to do more hacking per minute than the pro who gets 6 fouls in a 48 minute game.

Commit a foul every 8 minutes in the pros, and you're out at the end of regulation. Foul at the same rate in high school, and you'll make it to the end of double OT.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby ReadyToPlay » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:59 am

Calculations are correct, but not apples to apples as NBA has a whole different look on life. They definitely need a travel agent and any fouls have to be really life threatening combined with a scream. The NBA ref's favorite activity is the replay booth.
Getting back to the 6 foul concept, I still see nothing wrong with allowing 6 fouls in a state tournament only. If a foul situation to just one key player on the smaller team handicaps them, the game probably is then lost and there goes their season. It is just not sitting the player on the bench with loss of playing time, it also affects the whole team as when he gets back in, he is limited on being aggressive to go after a loose ball, a rebound, a steal, etc.....Nothing worse than going to a high profile game because of one questionable call and the rest of the game is downhill. Give them one perk for even making state as it would absolutely not hurt anyone but would keep your best team on the floor so there would be no excuses and then the true winner would be the victor!
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby wan2bqb » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:44 am

ReadyToPlay wrote:Calculations are correct, but not apples to apples as NBA has a whole different look on life. They definitely need a travel agent and any fouls have to be really life threatening combined with a scream. The NBA ref's favorite activity is the replay booth.
Getting back to the 6 foul concept, I still see nothing wrong with allowing 6 fouls in a state tournament only. If a foul situation to just one key player on the smaller team handicaps them, the game probably is then lost and there goes their season. It is just not sitting the player on the bench with loss of playing time, it also affects the whole team as when he gets back in, he is limited on being aggressive to go after a loose ball, a rebound, a steal, etc.....Nothing worse than going to a high profile game because of one questionable call and the rest of the game is downhill. Give them one perk for even making state as it would absolutely not hurt anyone but would keep your best team on the floor so there would be no excuses and then the true winner would be the victor!


NO EXCUSES????? You just said small teams need extra fouls so they don't have to worry when competing with bigger teams. WTH!!! Maybe we move the 3 point line a little closer for the little guys. Better yet they have practiced all year to play ball a certain way but make the big boys shoot from college three point line at State only! Are you kidding man. We are going to start changing rules for one tournament because somebody got a bad break. What about the little guys that make there bread by driving to the lane and drawing fouls on those trees in the middle. Now they need to get him to commit another foul to get him out of the game. This whole conversation is one of the more ridiculous I have heard in a long time.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby packers21 » Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:59 am

ReadyToPlay wrote:Calculations are correct, but not apples to apples as NBA has a whole different look on life. They definitely need a travel agent and any fouls have to be really life threatening combined with a scream. The NBA ref's favorite activity is the replay booth.
Getting back to the 6 foul concept, I still see nothing wrong with allowing 6 fouls in a state tournament only. If a foul situation to just one key player on the smaller team handicaps them, the game probably is then lost and there goes their season. It is just not sitting the player on the bench with loss of playing time, it also affects the whole team as when he gets back in, he is limited on being aggressive to go after a loose ball, a rebound, a steal, etc.....Nothing worse than going to a high profile game because of one questionable call and the rest of the game is downhill. Give them one perk for even making state as it would absolutely not hurt anyone but would keep your best team on the floor so there would be no excuses and then the true winner would be the victor!


Have you watched a NBA game lately? It's full of flops, reviews and flagrant 1 and 2s! Life threatening fouls haha maybe in the 80s. 6 fouls debate makes no sense, want to stay in the game use some basketball sense if you get a cheap foul, part of strategy is to go after guys to try get them to pick up a foul or two.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby ReadyToPlay » Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:54 am

To restate about small, it was meant to be like Tiny school, like the following recap.. one bad call, whether it be a controversial foul or violation, has a lot of true basketball fans muddering to themselves.
"What if?"

Class B power Hillsboro nipped tiny Epping 56-52 for the 1977 Class B state boys basketball championship, a game that captivated the state’s basketball fans.

“It was probably the ultimate David vs. Goliath,” said Dave Nelson, a senior on that Hillsboro team and now the head coach at May-Port-CG. “We were one of the bigger schools, and they were one of the smaller schools.”

However, that basket was disallowed after referee Henry Milkey called Don Allard for palming the ball, a call that remains controversial.

“And still to this day, there is the one call from Henry Milkey that turned the game around,” Bob Allard said.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby B-oldtimer » Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:15 am

Schwab your right if the game was called as it was written in the rules make up of whole game would be different. The scoring would be much higher and size would not be as much a factor as quickness and speed would be. A small quick player would have such advantage over large physical player because slower physical player would foul out or would have to let smaller quicker players room either drive and shoot or let them shoot at safe distance so they couldn't be beaten to basket. It would be very fun game to watch once players learned to play with those enforcement of the rules. It would be fast and a lot of scoring especially with shot clock so slower team couldn't just sit on the ball. Today the higher the level of play more it becomes shoving, pushing and grabbing game and bigger and stronger you are it seems more you are allowed to play that way. I have always wonder what kind of super star would have Spud Web been if bigger players wouldn't have been allowed to have contact like rule book was written where he could have gone to basket without being touched. Think about it.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby stir the pot » Thu Mar 09, 2017 8:17 am

ReadyToPlay wrote:To restate about small, it was meant to be like Tiny school, like the following recap.. one bad call, whether it be a controversial foul or violation, has a lot of true basketball fans muddering to themselves.
"What if?"

Class B power Hillsboro nipped tiny Epping 56-52 for the 1977 Class B state boys basketball championship, a game that captivated the state’s basketball fans.

“It was probably the ultimate David vs. Goliath,” said Dave Nelson, a senior on that Hillsboro team and now the head coach at May-Port-CG. “We were one of the bigger schools, and they were one of the smaller schools.”

However, that basket was disallowed after referee Henry Milkey called Don Allard for palming the ball, a call that remains controversial.

“And still to this day, there is the one call from Henry Milkey that turned the game around,” Bob Allard said.


We all need to quit picking on the refs.
Epping may have not even made the championship game if they had't got a couple of calls go their way in their quarter final game. That game went into overtime.
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Re: 6 fouls

Postby OldSchoolBaller » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:31 am

stir the pot wrote:
ReadyToPlay wrote:To restate about small, it was meant to be like Tiny school, like the following recap.. one bad call, whether it be a controversial foul or violation, has a lot of true basketball fans muddering to themselves.
"What if?"

Class B power Hillsboro nipped tiny Epping 56-52 for the 1977 Class B state boys basketball championship, a game that captivated the state’s basketball fans.

“It was probably the ultimate David vs. Goliath,” said Dave Nelson, a senior on that Hillsboro team and now the head coach at May-Port-CG. “We were one of the bigger schools, and they were one of the smaller schools.”

However, that basket was disallowed after referee Henry Milkey called Don Allard for palming the ball, a call that remains controversial.

“And still to this day, there is the one call from Henry Milkey that turned the game around,” Bob Allard said.


We all need to quit picking on the refs.
Epping may have not even made the championship game if they had't got a couple of calls go their way in their quarter final game. That game went into overtime.

As Brad Pitt said in Moneyball - "Adapt or Die". The game has become more physical over the years, but if the refs were to start calling the game exactly by the rule book you would still have people on here complaining about the reffing. It is the most unappreciated job in the game of basketball. It is sickening to watch fans heckling the refs game in and game out, and I think that this is the biggest reason why we have a reffing shortage in the state in the first place. Who wants to drive 2 hrs a night, 5 days a week, to get heckled and booed. I know that you get decent money for it, but most of the refs are not in it for the money. They ref because they love the game, and for anyone to blame a loss on the reffing really has to take a good, hard look in the mirror and think about if they really deserved a win.
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