NEW: 16-17 region 1

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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby The Schwab » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:00 am

The 3 class system talk is about 20 years too late, it should have happened before all the co-ops started happening. I ask you though, why did all these co-ops happen? I know a lot of schools co-oped for the chance to just be able to compete with the larger schools in their districts/regions. Right now we have a broken system. I understand that people from regions 2, 4 and 8 might not see the system as broken and that's fine, everyone is entitled to their opinion. My thoughts on how to better fix the system rather then a traditional 3 class system (because the NDHSAA has made it clear that no matter what it's members want, this will NEVER happen) is to lower the cutoff number to class A. Have the top class of 20 teams be in high A, Low A be the next 20 teams and have two regions for each class. Top four from each region in High and Low "A" qualify for the state tournament, use a QRF formula (this way they could schedule bigger class B schools and wouldn't kill rivalries or make unrealistic travel) to seed them 1-16 (have 2 games each at 4 neutral site locations (GF, Fargo, Minot, Bismarck)) winner of those 8 qualifying games qualifies for the state Class A tournament. For this to work all schools with non-defined borders couldn't play in class B. This way you would have a chance for great matchups, the NDHSAA would love it because they'd make more money and it would bring back a small town feel to class B basketball. Just my two cents, take it for what it's worth.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby Flip » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:36 am

Who are the schools that consistently had enough players that co-op'ed to be more competitive?
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 14, 2017 11:45 am

I've always said and it looks much clearer now.....that a true consolidation is much more effective than a co-op, plain and simple....now I am not saying some co-op's have not been beneficial for some schools, but do sports drive the train or do academics? and I realize even classroom stuff is shared from school to school but bottom line sports is what sparked co-ops in the beginning and in some cases it has backfired ....
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby Sportsrube » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:28 pm

In our District the co-ops have always been about numbers - School A only has 6 kids, school B has 7 so they co-op. None of the co-ops in our District have been to create a more competitive program, it has just simply been about numbers. (I'm talking basketball only here.) It would be nice to be able to go back to how it was 20 years ago where every small town had a school and enough kids to field a team - less travel, great rivalries, etc.... unfortunately that is not going to happen. I can actually see more schools co-oping in order to try and compete with the larger schools in their District/Region. I hope that doesn't happen, but it wouldn't surprise me.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby The Schwab » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:32 pm

Sportsrube wrote:In our District the co-ops have always been about numbers - School A only has 6 kids, school B has 7 so they co-op. None of the co-ops in our District have been to create a more competitive program, it has just simply been about numbers. (I'm talking basketball only here.) It would be nice to be able to go back to how it was 20 years ago where every small town had a school and enough kids to field a team - less travel, great rivalries, etc.... unfortunately that is not going to happen. I can actually see more schools co-oping in order to try and compete with the larger schools in their District/Region. I hope that doesn't happen, but it wouldn't surprise me.


Do you think that participation numbers dropping could be due to lack of success of programs due to size of schools they play? Not necessarily my belief but it makes sense.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby Sportsrube » Tue Mar 14, 2017 3:39 pm

The Schwab wrote:
Sportsrube wrote:In our District the co-ops have always been about numbers - School A only has 6 kids, school B has 7 so they co-op. None of the co-ops in our District have been to create a more competitive program, it has just simply been about numbers. (I'm talking basketball only here.) It would be nice to be able to go back to how it was 20 years ago where every small town had a school and enough kids to field a team - less travel, great rivalries, etc.... unfortunately that is not going to happen. I can actually see more schools co-oping in order to try and compete with the larger schools in their District/Region. I hope that doesn't happen, but it wouldn't surprise me.


Do you think that participation numbers dropping could be due to lack of success of programs due to size of schools they play? Not necessarily my belief but it makes sense.


Most of the schools in my District are pretty small and in most cases it is just a lack of kids. Some of the schools in our District lose some guys to wrestling, but I doubt many of them would play basketball if there wasn't wrestling. I think you make a valid point with a few kids not participating because they don't want to compete against teams that come from larger schools, but I don't think it is many.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:53 am

Sportsrube wrote:
The Schwab wrote:
Sportsrube wrote:In our District the co-ops have always been about numbers - School A only has 6 kids, school B has 7 so they co-op. None of the co-ops in our District have been to create a more competitive program, it has just simply been about numbers. (I'm talking basketball only here.) It would be nice to be able to go back to how it was 20 years ago where every small town had a school and enough kids to field a team - less travel, great rivalries, etc.... unfortunately that is not going to happen. I can actually see more schools co-oping in order to try and compete with the larger schools in their District/Region. I hope that doesn't happen, but it wouldn't surprise me.


Do you think that participation numbers dropping could be due to lack of success of programs due to size of schools they play? Not necessarily my belief but it makes sense.


Most of the schools in my District are pretty small and in most cases it is just a lack of kids. Some of the schools in our District lose some guys to wrestling, but I doubt many of them would play basketball if there wasn't wrestling. I think you make a valid point with a few kids not participating because they don't want to compete against teams that come from larger schools, but I don't think it is many.


I think it's more the nature of the kids these days to not want to participate because it's more work and not easy. Also, a lot of kids prioritize having a job and money over the experience of sports unfortunately.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby Bigbrew22 » Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:23 am

NDlionsfan nailed it I think. It's all about the want to play. I know of several kids that can't peel there fingers off the video game controller long enough to eat supper much less play a sport
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby wem » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:32 pm

An ex- oak grove coach told me this in regards to alleged recruiting; We do not recruit, but we do get WF, Moorhead, South, Norths, etc. #6, 7 an 8 players that want to start or get more playin time. Also, I will add that the wellness centers /gyms/fields, don't hurt either.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby 74Magic » Fri Mar 17, 2017 9:02 am

I would concur with the fact that Oak Grove does pick up players who are borderline players on other teams who have a better chance to play at Oak Grove than they would at their schools in the FM area. I don't think coaches recruit but certainly parents and players do. Here's how it works, you go work out at the Wellness Center gyms and get to be friends. One thing leads to another and hey, I might be able to play at Oak Grove. Most of these kids are talented but to small in stature to play much in the class A ranks.

Having said that, I commend Coach Card. He is an excellent coach. He makes many great adjustments from game to game and in game adjustments as well. Contrary to what I have heard and read on posts on this site, they play defense and they play it well. Scores do get higher but primarily because of the brand of basketball they play.

I'm not an Oak Grove fan, but from Region 1 and have kids that have played so I've observed Oak Grove over their run of 8 years in the Region 1 championship games. There have been a number of talented teams in those years. Coach Card usually gets the most out of his teams. And I think that's the biggest difference. A factor can be attributed to the access to more talented players by the population of the FM area no doubt, but you also have to give some credit to good coaching and hard work by the players.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby knowledge » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:46 am

wem wrote:An ex- oak grove coach told me this in regards to alleged recruiting; We do not recruit, but we do get WF, Moorhead, South, Norths, etc. #6, 7 an 8 players that want to start or get more playin time. Also, I will add that the wellness centers /gyms/fields, don't hurt either.


Christianson, Bakkegaard, Foster get minutes for South, Moorhead, and maybe North - other than that no one sees the floor at the FM 'A' schools.

At the start of Coach Card's run, this statement is closer to being true as Sam Olson, S. Akeson, & E. Holt could've played for the A schools but you must look closely at when these guys start attending before making assumptions on recruiting. The other factor is family connections and for lack of a better term, legacies (it sounds really preppy, but there are many families that make the determination way before sports are apart of the discussion - often the choir plays a larger factor in attendance).

A OG story that is often way more accurate than recruiting goes like this. (true story - names left out)
Grover basketball player: "Did you here there's a 6'6 kid transferring from _________ (FM area school)"
Student: That's awesome! 6'6? That's going to make the difference. We're going to state!
Another basketball player: What's his name? Did we play against him at summer league?
Original Player: I don't know. Not sure who he is.
Third Player: Than why are we excited? Don't you think Coach _______ would want a good 6'6 dude?
Original Player: Good point

Outcome: Never started in game in the two years he attended. Great kid. Good Student. Fit in well at the school. Didn't swing the Region 1 outcomes.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby Flip » Sun Mar 19, 2017 12:56 am

wem wrote:An ex- oak grove coach told me this in regards to alleged recruiting; We do not recruit, but we do get WF, Moorhead, South, Norths, etc. #6, 7 an 8 players that want to start or get more playin time.

74Magic wrote:I would concur with the fact that Oak Grove does pick up players who are borderline players on other teams who have a better chance to play at Oak Grove than they would at their schools in the FM area.

I've heard this theory before, so who are these kids that decided to go to OG to get more playing time?
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby knowledge » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:06 am

In my time there were a couple transfers that came over after freshman year. One came as a soph because of a unsatisfactory feeling towards the area school he was attending (hazing, etc...). Another came a year later and sat out the transfer time (same school, same crap). Otherwise I cannot think of any player from that time frame that came over "late" (except for the transfer story above).

During the early years of Coach Card taking over, two players came over from Fargo South. Neither were starters for OG, both were role guys at best for South. They came over as juniors, played JV and were rotation players as seniors (I believe this to be accurate, but could be off a bit....Run???)

OG did also lose a starter, "A" state champ, and D1 baseball player to Fargo North in the early 2000s. They also lost one of Fargo Davies top career scorers that would've been on the State Championship team. He was at OG for some of Elem and all of middle school. I aslo believe a young man is driving from Fargo to Enderlin each day that started his middle schooling at OG. Sometimes people leave the school too.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby Run4Fun2009 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:10 am

knowledge wrote:In my time there were a couple transfers that came over after freshman year. One came as a soph because of a unsatisfactory feeling towards the area school he was attending (hazing, etc...). Another came a year later and sat out the transfer time (same school, same crap). Otherwise I cannot think of any player from that time frame that came over "late" (except for the transfer story above).

During the early years of Coach Card taking over, two players came over from Fargo South. Neither were starters for OG, both were role guys at best for South. They came over as juniors, played JV and were rotation players as seniors (I believe this to be accurate, but could be off a bit....Run???)

OG did also lose a starter, "A" state champ, and D1 baseball player to Fargo North in the early 2000s. They also lost one of Fargo Davies top career scorers that would've been on the State Championship team. He was at OG for some of Elem and all of middle school. I aslo believe a young man is driving from Fargo to Enderlin each day that started his middle schooling at OG. Sometimes people leave the school too.


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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby OldSchoolBaller » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:34 pm

I don't think that it is necessarily the transfer students, or anything like that. I think that the advantage of being in a private school was highlighted pretty well a few years ago. A couple of brothers played at different schools from each other. One at a public school won a Class A state tournament. The other went to Oak Grove because that's where his friends played and he won a state tournament the same year. In a small Class B school there is no such advantage to pick where you want to go to school.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby knowledge » Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:53 pm

And they were both in Kindred prior to that. It was all a parental/family decision to leave Kindred. They both could've played together there. Would it have been an issue had one gone to Lisbon and the other Enderlin? Or had they lived on the north side of Fargo instead of south, had one driven to Northern Cass rather than OG? This is such a rare situation in the state of ND. If open enrollment didn't exist, I could see a larger issue but with open enrollment this stuff can and does happen with public schools, just not with as much venom against the school benefiting. Had their been message boards in the mid to late 90's would people have complained that Finley-Sharon lost players to MPCG? I guess we'll never now, but the balance of power was changed with those moves and w/o tuition.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby OldSchoolBaller » Sun Mar 19, 2017 2:10 pm

knowledge wrote:And they were both in Kindred prior to that. It was all a parental/family decision to leave Kindred. They both could've played together there. Would it have been an issue had one gone to Lisbon and the other Enderlin? Or had they lived on the north side of Fargo instead of south, had one driven to Northern Cass rather than OG? This is such a rare situation in the state of ND. If open enrollment didn't exist, I could see a larger issue but with open enrollment this stuff can and does happen with public schools, just not with as much venom against the school benefiting. Had their been message boards in the mid to late 90's would people have complained that Finley-Sharon lost players to MPCG? I guess we'll never now, but the balance of power was changed with those moves and w/o tuition.

I think if you go from one class b town to another that's all anyone talks about. Especially if you are an athlete. On the business side of things if you lose a kid in a small school it is a huge deal. In a bigger school it's just another kid. As far as athletics go, I've seen kids shunned for transferring between small schools. Nevermind this the fact that you have brothers living under the same roof, but can go to different schools is what I am talking about in my statement. Growing up if me and my siblings would have gone to different schools, our family would have been outcasts. In Fargo does anyone care if this happens? The sense of playing for, or supporting a community is not there.

And P.S. people are still disgruntled about the Finley Sharon and MPCG debacle.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby Vikesfan27 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 3:00 pm

I love to see this discussion. It's too often on here that people lash out so harshly about private schools and jump to conclusions without actually talking about what they see as issues. And at the very bottom of it, this years oak grove team (all the players that actually played) all came up through the school just like any other class b team they played against. I love class b basketball as much as the next guy and I love to see different teams go to state each year, just like I liked seeing Hillsboro win, just because of the fact that FWM had won last year. With that said, yes OG has been in the region championship 8 straight years but look at their other sports. No oak grove team has enjoyed success in the way the basketball team has. If the recruiting arguement, and the "Fargo advantage" arguement is a prevalent as many people think, wouldn't their football team (which has struggled heavily) enjoy the same success as the basketball team? I do agree with the idea of lower tier players transferring from A schools but this is more the exception than the rule. Just my 2 cents.
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby ChickenWing » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:04 am

I saw Hanson signed with Lake Region. Going to play with Henningsgard. Is anyone else going to play college hoops?
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Re: NEW: 16-17 region 1

Postby mnnd » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:24 am

Great to see that Hanson will be playing at Lake Region....what an athlete and a fantastic young man.

As far as the OG discussion....This year's team:
- Foster arrived at OG somewhere around the 6th/7th grade if I remember as his dad transferred in with a large local company. He became one of the 2 bigger boys on their respective team (both travel and school ball). 3 year varsity player
- Schlenker was the other larger boy that played with the team and believe he was home schooled and then arrived somewhere in the middle school timing to play with the team. 4 year varsity player
- Slagle started at OG in 2nd grade after his family moved up to the FM area due to job transfer. Played with same group of boys from YMCA ball, travel ball, AAU and then 4 year varsity player who was lost in first game with ACL injury vs Hawley.
- Berg played on same YMCA, travel ball and AAU with Slagle and family were long time OG alumni and Fargo residents, 3 year varsity player
- Adams started playing with Slagle and Berg in the elementary school years and his mother and Grandfather were OG alumni and his older brother Christian was the all time leading scorer for OG bball. (Run..correct?) 3 year varsity player
- Bakkegard came over from Grace Lutheran sometime in middle school and then joined the boys on their travel squad and played 3 years of varsity
- Pulst also came over from Grace Lutheran and was a 3 year varsity player
- Christianson came from the public school system in Fargo sometime in middle school and his older brother Tyler played for OG some 4 or 5 years ago. will be a 4 year varsity player
- Anderson has been playing ball for OG for many years and moved up to starting PG due to Slagle's injury and also is an all-state soccer player. 3 year varsity player

Foster, Slagle and Berg played AAU together with the Phenoms and ECI for 2 summers and believe that Christianson played some ECI last summer...

In summary, don't believe there has been any "recruiting" of this year's team and many of them have been playing together for 8+ years together. If Christianson and Anderson (both Jrs) had not started and Slagle had not injured his ACL in first game...then likely 3 of the starting 5 would have played together for 10 years straight and the other 2 would have been with those 3 for at least 5 years....just some add'l detail on the discussion of private and public
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