Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Class B Boys
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Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:08 am

I made a point of watching all of the State Tournament action I could this year
Girls B
Girls A
Boys A
Boys B

In reference to Boys it is obvious that A is played at a much faster pace than B on an overall basis....I knew this to be true but it is a notch up from even 4-5 years ago IMO
its seems threes are being cast from everywhere at any point in an offensive set and pushing the ball in transition is constant....

I'm wondering from coaches and annalists, Is it tougher to coach Class A than Class B or the other way around, tougher to coach B than A... and I'm not asking this to say who is a better coach or who isn't, I'm asking to hear perspective from both and maybe we all hear something we didn't realize or were not a where of ...I will go on to say that Class A maybe play one another more and are more familiar with each other but otherwise take it from there.. :)
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby Sportsrube » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:25 am

I think this is a multifaceted question, and a good one. I think the hardest part of coaching Class A would be the strategy part of it when you are playing a team for the 3rd/4th time and have seen a number of films on that team as well. I think the hardest part in Class B is trying to find an offense or defense that works with the talent you have on hand. (and size or lack of size you have on hand) I don't think it is any easier to coach on one level than the other, just a different set of problems to deal with. I have also heard people say it is harder to coach a team full of talent than a team with little talent, but I see it the same way - It's not easier, it is just a different set of problems to deal with. (Just my opinion.)
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby Hinsa » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:05 pm

Here's a couple of other differences:

In "A" the head coach my have 3-7 or so assistants to help run the program. Of course, the head coach has to manage all those assistants, but the head at least has those resources to tap when they are needed to monitor injuries and rehab, assemble stats, help break down video, act as sounding boards for strategizing, teach fundamentals, and a whole potful of other things. Of course, the head has to ensure that the assistants are dedicated and self-driven enough to carry out these tasks according to the head's expectations.

In "B" the head coach usually has one assistant. They may have two if they are lucky; they may have none if they are unlucky. One assistant to perform all the things that numerous assistants do in "A". Can't be done, so the head takes on more responsibility that takes away from strategy time.

This could be a typical schedule for game day for a "B" head coach: get on the bus at 2:30, sometimes drive the bus, arrive at the destination and immediately begin taping and bracing injuries, coach or help coach the JV, coach the varsity, ride or drive the bus home, get home at 11:30 (or later), make a sandwich to eat while reviewing video and doing stats until 2:00am.

The next day, do your day job, put together a practice plan, run practice and try to find a sliver of time to review some video with the team, go home and eat, then crash on the couch, and repeat game day the next day.

An "A" coach's schedule is certainly no picnic, but effective use of all those assistants can make their life tolerable.

Another difference is that typically the skill level in "A" will be more consistent throughout the varsity than it can be on a "B" varsity. In "B" there tends to be a wider range of ages on the varsity while in "A" there tends to be more juniors and seniors with the occasional sophomore sprinkled in. This means the "B" coach must deal with and plan for a wider range of skills than the "A" coach. This can mean more time spent on fundamentals than team strategy, so the "B" coach may have precious little time to implement a game plan.

I realize this post is written while looking through "B" colored glasses, but that is what I know. I do not envy the administrative tasks that an "A" coach has to deal with. They have to put a lot of trust in their assistants and a poor assistant or two can crumble their whole program.

I'd have a hard time saying which coach has it tougher; they are both tough jobs.
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:27 pm

Updated Hinsa's post with my actual typical day when I coached

AWAY GAMES: go get the bus at 2:30 (fuel up if needed), drive the bus, arrive at the destination and immediately begin taping and bracing injuries, help coach the JV, coach the varsity, drive the bus home, drop kids off that don't have vehicles, get home at 11:30 (or later), make a sandwich to eat while reviewing video and doing stats until 2:00am.

HOME GAMES: clean the gym floor on prep period, set up the bleachers and scorer's table immediately after school, double check to make sure the volunteers for keeping clock and book are still able to make it, ref the JH game with assistant coach, help coach the JV, tape ankles etc. during second half, coach the varsity, stick around after the game to clean up and put everything away including bleachers so that the gym is ready for 1st period phy ed the next morning, lock up the gym and shut off the lights about midnight to head home, grab a bite to eat and review game film and stats until 2:00am.
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby bsoldiergirl » Tue Mar 22, 2016 7:00 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:Updated Hinsa's post with my actual typical day when I coached

AWAY GAMES: go get the bus at 2:30 (fuel up if needed), drive the bus, arrive at the destination and immediately begin taping and bracing injuries, help coach the JV, coach the varsity, drive the bus home, drop kids off that don't have vehicles, get home at 11:30 (or later), make a sandwich to eat while reviewing video and doing stats until 2:00am.

HOME GAMES: clean the gym floor on prep period, set up the bleachers and scorer's table immediately after school, double check to make sure the volunteers for keeping clock and book are still able to make it, ref the JH game with assistant coach, help coach the JV, tape ankles etc. during second half, coach the varsity, stick around after the game to clean up and put everything away including bleachers so that the gym is ready for 1st period phy ed the next morning, lock up the gym and shut off the lights about midnight to head home, grab a bite to eat and review game film and stats until 2:00am.


This may be off topic, but just curious... Is coaching a paid position for Class A & B or is it volunteer? If not, you definitely should be!! If it is a paid position, you surely deserve a raise!! It seems you, and other coaches, are expected to fill paid positions within the school.(Bus driver, Trainer, Referee, Janitor) Class A or B, coaches have a hard job any way you look at it. Many fans don't realize what goes into coaching and the sacrifices they make. (Time with family) Oh wait, most coaches are also teachers. As a teacher myself, I have no idea when they have time to plan and grade papers!

I can definitely see the advantage of having many coaches rather than 1 or 2. I also see that smaller school coaches have to shoulder responsibilities that larger school coaches don't. (Setup Gym..Drive Bus)

Whether it be Class A or B, paid or not paid, single or married, one thing is for sure.....They put their lives on pause for 3-4 months each year and can't wait for the next season to begin! Thanks coaches for all you do!! :wink:
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby Flip » Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:02 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:Updated Hinsa's post with my actual typical day when I coached

AWAY GAMES: go get the bus at 2:30 (fuel up if needed), drive the bus, arrive at the destination and immediately begin taping and bracing injuries, help coach the JV, coach the varsity, drive the bus home, drop kids off that don't have vehicles, get home at 11:30 (or later), make a sandwich to eat while reviewing video and doing stats until 2:00am.

HOME GAMES: clean the gym floor on prep period, set up the bleachers and scorer's table immediately after school, double check to make sure the volunteers for keeping clock and book are still able to make it, ref the JH game with assistant coach, help coach the JV, tape ankles etc. during second half, coach the varsity, stick around after the game to clean up and put everything away including bleachers so that the gym is ready for 1st period phy ed the next morning, lock up the gym and shut off the lights about midnight to head home, grab a bite to eat and review game film and stats until 2:00am.

You forgot to mention the part where you're also the AD. I've never had that much responsibility. And I set a world record for fewest ankles taped this year too, 1.
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby bsoldiergirl » Wed Mar 23, 2016 6:43 am

bsoldiergirl wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:Updated Hinsa's post with my actual typical day when I coached

AWAY GAMES: go get the bus at 2:30 (fuel up if needed), drive the bus, arrive at the destination and immediately begin taping and bracing injuries, help coach the JV, coach the varsity, drive the bus home, drop kids off that don't have vehicles, get home at 11:30 (or later), make a sandwich to eat while reviewing video and doing stats until 2:00am.

HOME GAMES: clean the gym floor on prep period, set up the bleachers and scorer's table immediately after school, double check to make sure the volunteers for keeping clock and book are still able to make it, ref the JH game with assistant coach, help coach the JV, tape ankles etc. during second half, coach the varsity, stick around after the game to clean up and put everything away including bleachers so that the gym is ready for 1st period phy ed the next morning, lock up the gym and shut off the lights about midnight to head home, grab a bite to eat and review game film and stats until 2:00am.


This may be off topic, but just curious... Is coaching a paid position for Class A & B or is it volunteer? If not, you definitely should be!! If it is a paid position, you surely deserve a raise!! It seems you, and other coaches, are expected to fill paid positions within the school.(Bus driver, Trainer, Referee, Janitor) Class A or B, coaches have a hard job any way you look at it. Many fans don't realize what goes into coaching and the sacrifices they make. (Time with family) Oh wait, most coaches are also teachers. As a teacher myself, I have no idea when they have time to plan and grade papers!

I can definitely see the advantage of having many coaches rather than 1 or 2. I also see that smaller school coaches have to shoulder responsibilities that larger school coaches don't. (Setup Gym..Drive Bus)

Whether it be Class A or B, paid or not paid, single or married, one thing is for sure.....They put their lives on pause for 3-4 months each year and can't wait for the next season to begin! Thanks coaches for all you do!! :wink:


Wow... :o I didn't even think about that. AD is now on my long list of coach responsibilities.
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:10 am

Flip wrote:
ndlionsfan wrote:Updated Hinsa's post with my actual typical day when I coached

AWAY GAMES: go get the bus at 2:30 (fuel up if needed), drive the bus, arrive at the destination and immediately begin taping and bracing injuries, help coach the JV, coach the varsity, drive the bus home, drop kids off that don't have vehicles, get home at 11:30 (or later), make a sandwich to eat while reviewing video and doing stats until 2:00am.

HOME GAMES: clean the gym floor on prep period, set up the bleachers and scorer's table immediately after school, double check to make sure the volunteers for keeping clock and book are still able to make it, ref the JH game with assistant coach, help coach the JV, tape ankles etc. during second half, coach the varsity, stick around after the game to clean up and put everything away including bleachers so that the gym is ready for 1st period phy ed the next morning, lock up the gym and shut off the lights about midnight to head home, grab a bite to eat and review game film and stats until 2:00am.

You forgot to mention the part where you're also the AD. I've never had that much responsibility. And I set a world record for fewest ankles taped this year too, 1.


No, actually I didn't become AD until after I gave up coaching. Small school responsibilities, but I loved it while I was doing it. Looking back on it now, can't believe I put in all that time for pennies. That's why I have a lot of respect for all the coaches out there.
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby winner-within » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:22 am

the responses are good, Thanks

I have observed the "assistant coach" thing in Class B boys and girls just in the last few years.....I think some programs either have more $$ to work with and in some instances its more commitment (not making much but putting in time) maybe because a player is a child of the assistant or whatever the case may be....but bottom line a good assistant or 2 is key in getting the victory when 2 teams are evenly matched, especially at peak time or tournament time....
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby Hinsa » Mon Mar 28, 2016 7:27 pm

Let's have a little fun with math. In a "B" school, a coach puts in a rough average of 38 hours per week - 2 game days x 11 hours, 3 non-game days x 5 hours (I threw in some time for scouting trips) plus an occasional Saturday game. 38 hours is easily a low-ball number. It probably is closer to 40+ hours, but I want to low-ball it so I am not understating the per hour compensation.

38 hours/week x about 14 weeks = 532 in-season hours. Then you throw in a swag of 8 hours per week in the off season - open gyms, camps, leagues, clinics, planning, etc. Sometimes it's much more than 8, sometimes it's zero. 8 hours x 38 weeks = 304 hours. That makes a total of 836 hours. And I'm low balling that number just so it can't be said that I'm overestimating any hours.

Now, let's say you make $4000 for head coaching. Younger coaches would make less, more experienced coaches would make more. Divide $4000 by 836 hours and you make a whopping $4.78 per hour.

How many people would take any kind of a part time job for $4.78/hour??? And remember, I underestimated the number of hours a coach really puts in.

If you can make a better estimate than what I have here, feel free to do so.
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby ndlionsfan » Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:37 am

Now, let's say you make $3000 for head coaching. Younger coaches would make less, more experienced coaches would make more. Divide $3000 by 836 hours and you make a whopping $3.59 per hour.

How many people would take any kind of a part time job for $3.59/hour??? Especially one where every parent and fan has an opinion on what you could do better and who you should play more, etc. And remember, I underestimated the number of hours a coach really puts in.


Fixed it for you a bit....
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby d_fense » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:58 am

Ya, I was thinking 4 grand for a class b coach was pushing it a bit.
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 29, 2016 10:17 am

Hinsa wrote:Let's have a little fun with math. In a "B" school, a coach puts in a rough average of 38 hours per week - 2 game days x 11 hours, 3 non-game days x 5 hours (I threw in some time for scouting trips) plus an occasional Saturday game. 38 hours is easily a low-ball number. It probably is closer to 40+ hours, but I want to low-ball it so I am not understating the per hour compensation.

38 hours/week x about 14 weeks = 532 in-season hours. Then you throw in a swag of 8 hours per week in the off season - open gyms, camps, leagues, clinics, planning, etc. Sometimes it's much more than 8, sometimes it's zero. 8 hours x 38 weeks = 304 hours. That makes a total of 836 hours. And I'm low balling that number just so it can't be said that I'm overestimating any hours.

Now, let's say you make $4000 for head coaching. Younger coaches would make less, more experienced coaches would make more. Divide $4000 by 836 hours and you make a whopping $4.78 per hour.

How many people would take any kind of a part time job for $4.78/hour??? And remember, I underestimated the number of hours a coach really puts in.

If you can make a better estimate than what I have here, feel free to do so.


I think in all reality this is close to what a number of Varsity coaches go through in the State of ND work wise (with the exception of how much they're making, because we dont know all the figures) year in year out....this would lean towards a very dedicated coach.....I think the key here is (and to answer your question) that most have went to school with this in mind....I know some coaches come into programs outside the school system....but most have went to College with the intention of coaching and probably know what it entails...with this said, the post doesn't even include the fact that these coaches are under the radar of the community and that alone can add, added stress and work, with phone calls, politics, etc. etc.... so sometimes the tough part can be just dealing with the extracurricular that comes with the job....whats that worth, another $4.00 an hour? :) .....bottom line is, its a job (I done one year of it at JH level and have done quite a bit non-school related) that one has to commit to and embrace with passion and focus......wasn't thinking when I started the thread that the $$ side would come out (wasn't my intention) but that is part of it and its all good....the world needs more good coaches and teachers.....I think ND is fortunate in this dept per capita
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby Hinsa » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:39 pm

I agree that the stress is tremendous and impossible to put a dollar value on.

The reason I brought up the money issue was to prove the point that almost all people on this site are already aware of and that is the fact that you don't coach to make money. You coach for these reasons:

1. the thrill of competition
2. the love of the game
3. the love of trying to help young people become better moms and dads and workers and volunteers down the road

The previously mentioned stress has a tremendous influence on a coach's ability to focus on coaching and strategizing. So who would have the most stress, the jack-of-all trades B coach, or the A coach who has the responsibility to administrate a program for anywhere from 4-8 or more teams?

How much does an A head coach make? I'd like to know what their per hour rate is.
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby The Schwab » Tue Mar 29, 2016 3:49 pm

Honestly, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to what is tougher to coach. The better your team is supposed to be, the more pressure that comes along with that. There's probably more administration pressure on Class A coaches. There's probably more community pressure surrounding class B coaches. The money thing is funny, if you are a dedicated coach you come no where near minimum wage for the hours you put in. The check at the end of the year is nice, but if you have a coach who's in coaching for the money (or lack there of), then you have a problem! Like I've told people before, I'd coach for free.
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby Hinsa » Tue Mar 29, 2016 4:10 pm

For free, Schwab? Come on, you know you would want at least a pack of gum and a six-pack of Coke. :wink:
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Re: Tougher to Coach and Strategize

Postby winner-within » Tue Mar 29, 2016 9:09 pm

The Schwab wrote:Honestly, I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to what is tougher to coach. The better your team is supposed to be, the more pressure that comes along with that. There's probably more administration pressure on Class A coaches. There's probably more community pressure surrounding class B coaches. The money thing is funny, if you are a dedicated coach you come no where near minimum wage for the hours you put in. The check at the end of the year is nice, but if you have a coach who's in coaching for the money (or lack there of), then you have a problem! Like I've told people before, I'd coach for free.



Oh, heres an overpiad Coach for sure....:D or at least he thinks so....because a great coach doesn't look at the money side of it, anything is good......the graditude of accomplishments (not how many wins) like watching a player/student grow, in the sport, and in life, is money in the bank for a great coach...

and on a side note I had mixed feelings about Coach K saying what he said to the Oregon player after the game but I believe it was his experience of playing at West Point (severe disapline) and coaching the national teams and helping on the Olympic teams that took over in a natural sence and reacting as a leader of youth that has directed and taught other players than just Duke players....I think it was a natural Coach K reaction regaurless of the stage (NCAA last eight) it was said on.....and I would blame the Media for the BS that went along with it...give credit to the youngster who was man enough to answer the question of what Coach K had said to him when celebrating may have been more important....the game has changed in some respect and so has our youth when it comes to 2016 and what is hip......but what hasn't changed is loving the sound of a ball bouncing off the floor, or watching the net fold up on a swish, or seeing the clock run out with your team on top....
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