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Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:20 pmby The Schwab
ndlionsfan wrote:Bigbrew22 wrote:I do believe that. Who has to worry about transfer rules if u change schools before the freshman year.
Yes, that's correct and there's probably some people at these schools that are looking at JH kids. But public schools can also do that as well and I'm sure do in those areas.
But to say they limit their enrollment to remain class B is absurd. Like I said, if they did that they would all be at 300 kids in HS. Just business common sense. There is no reason for them to keep their enrollment at half that or less.
Football numbers could be a reason
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Tue Mar 22, 2016 6:35 pmby Bigbrew22
ndlionsfan wrote:Bigbrew22 wrote:I do believe that. Who has to worry about transfer rules if u change schools before the freshman year.
Yes, that's correct and there's probably some people at these schools that are looking at JH kids. But public schools can also do that as well and I'm sure do in those areas.
But to say they limit their enrollment to remain class B is absurd. Like I said, if they did that they would all be at 300 kids in HS. Just business common sense. There is no reason for them to keep their enrollment at half that or less.
I don't think it's all about business I think it's more about quality education keeping classes smaller. It appears the money is flowing just fine for said small school. I have a hard time believing their enrollment could be that low after how many years they've been around if it wasn't by design. As far as the above statement that public schools can do it as well. Yes they can and its ok because it's on an even playing field a class A playing field. Their class B teams shouldn't benefit from the same privilege and claim there even with other B school
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:39 pmby GoPack#2
ndlionsfan wrote:Here are the enrollments from DPI. I sorted them including grades 8-11 for a good estimate for next year. I also included all co-ops together (hopefully got them all). Gives an idea at least of where the lines would be drawn in this plan.
Devils Lake 491
McKenzie Co 346
Wahpeton 341
Valley City 325
Grafton + ST 259
New Town 248
Ft Totten + Mwkn 231
Beulah 213
Central Cass 210
Hillsboro + CV 206
Stanley 200
Kindred 198
Lisbon 193
Standing Rock 186
Bottineau 182
Hazen 179
DLB 176
Rugby 175
Northern Cass 171
Harvey + WC 166
Carrington 162
South Heart + Belfield 162
Dunseith 161
Park River Area + FL 156
Langdon Area + Munich 153
Velva + Sawyer 153
May-Port CG 144
Killdeer + Halliday 139
Larimore 138
Edgeley + K + M 138
Fairmount + CT + Ros 138
Thompson 131
Oakes 129
Milnor + NS 129
Tioga 128
Beach 126
Bowman Co 124
St John 123
Minto + Midway 123
Cavalier 122
Berthold 122
Valley-Edinburg + Drayton 121
Hettinger + Scranton 120
Garrison 119
Kidder County 119
North Border 117
Northwood + Hatton 116
Wyndmere + Lidg 116
LaMoure + LM 113
Linton + HMB 113
Napoleon + GS 111
Ellendale 106
New Rockford-Sheyenne 105
Nedrose 103
Wilton + Wing 103
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood 101
Glenburn 99
Enderlin Area 95
Surrey 95
South Prairie 94
TGU 94
New Salem-Almont 93
Richardton-Taylor 93
Wishek + Ashley 93
Glen Ullin + Hebron 93
Medina + PB 92
Richland 90
Divide County 88
Dakota Prairie 85
Leeds + Maddock 84
Parshall 83
Hankinson 82
Kenmare 82
Turtle Lake-Mercer + M 82
Hope + FS 82
Barnes County North 81
Flasher 81
Washburn 80
Ray 79
North Star + Stark 79
Lakota + Edmore 75
Maple Valley 74
Mott-Regent 72
Trenton 70
Underwood 70
Rolla 69
Warwick 69
New England 68
Burke Central + Bow 63
Rolette + Wolford 62
Sargent Central 60
Elgin-New Leipzig 58
Griggs County Central 18 57
Center-Stanton 56
Midkota + Kensal 56
Westhope + New 56
Drake/Ana 55
Mandaree 52
Max 51
Powers Lake 50
Alexander 49
Grenora 48
Strasburg + Zeeland 48
Solen 46
White Shield 46
Selfridge 42
325 is the current cut off for Class B correct?
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:02 amby GoPack#2
ndlionsfan wrote:Here are the enrollments from DPI. I sorted them including grades 8-11 for a good estimate for next year. I also included all co-ops together (hopefully got them all). Gives an idea at least of where the lines would be drawn in this plan.
Devils Lake 491
McKenzie Co 346
Wahpeton 341
Valley City 325
Grafton + ST 259
New Town 248
Ft Totten + Mwkn 231
Beulah 213
Central Cass 210
Hillsboro + CV 206
Stanley 200
Kindred 198
Lisbon 193
Standing Rock 186
Bottineau 182
Hazen 179
DLB 176
Rugby 175
Northern Cass 171
Harvey + WC 166
Carrington 162
South Heart + Belfield 162
Dunseith 161
Park River Area + FL 156
Langdon Area + Munich 153
Velva + Sawyer 153
May-Port CG 144
Killdeer + Halliday 139
Larimore 138
Edgeley + K + M 138
Fairmount + CT + Ros 138
Thompson 131
Oakes 129
Milnor + NS 129
Tioga 128
Beach 126
Bowman Co 124
St John 123
Minto + Midway 123
Cavalier 122
Berthold 122
Valley-Edinburg + Drayton 121
Hettinger + Scranton 120
Garrison 119
Kidder County 119
North Border 117
Northwood + Hatton 116
Wyndmere + Lidg 116
LaMoure + LM 113
Linton + HMB 113
Napoleon + GS 111
Ellendale 106
New Rockford-Sheyenne 105
Nedrose 103
Wilton + Wing 103
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood 101
Glenburn 99
Enderlin Area 95
Surrey 95
South Prairie 94
TGU 94
New Salem-Almont 93
Richardton-Taylor 93
Wishek + Ashley 93
Glen Ullin + Hebron 93
Medina + PB 92
Richland 90
Divide County 88
Dakota Prairie 85
Leeds + Maddock 84
Parshall 83
Hankinson 82
Kenmare 82
Turtle Lake-Mercer + M 82
Hope + FS 82
Barnes County North 81
Flasher 81
Washburn 80
Ray 79
North Star + Stark 79
Lakota + Edmore 75
Maple Valley 74
Mott-Regent 72
Trenton 70
Underwood 70
Rolla 69
Warwick 69
New England 68
Burke Central + Bow 63
Rolette + Wolford 62
Sargent Central 60
Elgin-New Leipzig 58
Griggs County Central 18 57
Center-Stanton 56
Midkota + Kensal 56
Westhope + New 56
Drake/Ana 55
Mandaree 52
Max 51
Powers Lake 50
Alexander 49
Grenora 48
Strasburg + Zeeland 48
Solen 46
White Shield 46
Selfridge 42
So lets say Valley City is below 325 next year and Watford City is above the 325 line next year, would Valley City move to Class B and Watford City move to Class A immediately for the 2016-2017 season? Is it an automatic move or is there a time frame they have to go through?
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2016 8:11 amby ndlionsfan
I think there is a 2 year time frame. I'm guessing WC's enrollment will dip below the 325 next year, so that is why they aren't moving up. I believe when VC goes below 325 they can move down right away, though.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:42 amby Indy5
The Schwab wrote:ndlionsfan wrote:Bigbrew22 wrote:I do believe that. Who has to worry about transfer rules if u change schools before the freshman year.
Yes, that's correct and there's probably some people at these schools that are looking at JH kids. But public schools can also do that as well and I'm sure do in those areas.
But to say they limit their enrollment to remain class B is absurd. Like I said, if they did that they would all be at 300 kids in HS. Just business common sense. There is no reason for them to keep their enrollment at half that or less.
Football numbers could be a reason
I quoted you but also could have used BigBrew's last post too. Trust me, they aren't limiting numbers. If Ryan could, they'd love to have 400 students and be in the top class for everything. They are begging for kids. In the early 2000s, they were at about 60 kids a class (240 total). They are now around 100 kids total. Do you really think they wanted their enrollment to drop by over half in a little over a decade?
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:00 amby The Schwab
I'm not saying they do or they don't, simply stated that a reason could be the football numbers. One question: Is every student that applies to a private school accepted?
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:05 amby triplebbb
I thought you had to be over 325 for 2 consecutive years to move up. So barring any changes to the classes, WC would not go to class A until 3 yrs from now. Is it 2 consecutive under 325 to move down?
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:14 amby Baller
The Schwab wrote:I'm not saying they do or they don't, simply stated that a reason could be the football numbers. One question: Is every student that applies to a private school accepted?
I would say pretty close. As long as you can pay, they are going to let you in.
Exceptions would be major behavior problems and they may let some students in on a probationary status with behavior and attendance stipulations.
They also may not have certain special education programs. Therefore, they may warn a family that they may not be able to provide the best education possible for a student with severe disabilities.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:28 amby The Schwab
And therein lies the main difference between public and private. Public schools can't say no, they have to take whatever student (good or bad) comes along.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Wed Mar 23, 2016 10:31 amby The Schwab
I am not saying that private schools are bad or they recruit or anything like that. I am pointing out that there is a huge difference between a public school with 70 kids and a private school with 70 kids, which is why I've always been in favor of private schools being in the middle class in any 3 class system proposal.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:10 pmby Wilbur
Can they put the parochial schools in the middle division without going by enrollment? I don’t believe they can, because that might open up a discrimination lawsuit. With that in mind, having 3 classes will not remedy the problems that have been expressed on this site, because Shiloh, Our Redeemer’s and Trinity Christian (I believe) would still be left in the lower division. Shiloh is the most questionable, because they are in a region full of farm communities that are not growing, and will continue to get smaller each year. I think a lot of the problems could be solved by simply moving Shiloh to Region 7 with Trinity, Beulah, Hazen and the larger schools. Shiloh would hate this, but the rest of the state could be satisfied. Again, my opinion.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:47 pmby 3sportfan
Wilbur wrote:Can they put the parochial schools in the middle division without going by enrollment? I don’t believe they can, because that might open up a discrimination lawsuit. With that in mind, having 3 classes will not remedy the problems that have been expressed on this site, because Shiloh, Our Redeemer’s and Trinity Christian (I believe) would still be left in the lower division. Shiloh is the most questionable, because they are in a region full of farm communities that are not growing, and will continue to get smaller each year. I think a lot of the problems could be solved by simply moving Shiloh to Region 7 with Trinity, Beulah, Hazen and the larger schools. Shiloh would hate this, but the rest of the state could be satisfied. Again, my opinion.
how about Hazen and Beulah move east to region 5 and send a couple of the southern region 5 teams west to region 7, travel distances would be better and everyone is in the same time zone
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:00 pmby The Schwab
Wilbur wrote:Can they put the parochial schools in the middle division without going by enrollment? I don’t believe they can, because that might open up a discrimination lawsuit. With that in mind, having 3 classes will not remedy the problems that have been expressed on this site, because Shiloh, Our Redeemer’s and Trinity Christian (I believe) would still be left in the lower division. Shiloh is the most questionable, because they are in a region full of farm communities that are not growing, and will continue to get smaller each year. I think a lot of the problems could be solved by simply moving Shiloh to Region 7 with Trinity, Beulah, Hazen and the larger schools. Shiloh would hate this, but the rest of the state could be satisfied. Again, my opinion.
So your opinion is to add another great program to region 7, just so region 5 schools can compete to go to state? Wow
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:25 pmby Pit Bull
Wilbur wrote:Can they put the parochial schools in the middle division without going by enrollment? I don’t believe they can, because that might open up a discrimination lawsuit. With that in mind, having 3 classes will not remedy the problems that have been expressed on this site, because Shiloh, Our Redeemer’s and Trinity Christian (I believe) would still be left in the lower division. Shiloh is the most questionable, because they are in a region full of farm communities that are not growing, and will continue to get smaller each year. I think a lot of the problems could be solved by simply moving Shiloh to Region 7 with Trinity, Beulah, Hazen and the larger schools. Shiloh would hate this, but the rest of the state could be satisfied. Again, my opinion.
I disagree with Shiloh hating to be in a tougher Region or class. It's obvious they couldn't compete with the top programs in Class A, but a middle class is what Shiloh would prefer. They play the toughest schedule in the State every year anyhow, so nothing would change for them. The last time I checked their record it was pretty good against the top Class B teams in the state.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:53 pmby Wilbur
Isn’t that what the whole idea of a 3-class system is—for some of the smaller schools to have a chance to go to State? The ideal 3-class system that everyone is dreaming about is not going to happen. Having Shiloh in Region 7 is an alternative that has a better chance of passing. They play almost every team in Region 7 every year anyway. Pit bull, I guess I don’t know how Shiloh would feel about the move, but you are correct that they have one of the most competitive non-district schedules of any Class B team in the state.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:57 pmby Wilbur
You could also move Beulah and/or Hazen or Killdeer to Region 8 if Shiloh moved to Region 7.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:03 pmby Wilbur
3sportfan, I overlooked your suggestion about moving Beulah or Hazen to Region 5. I could agree with that idea, but it would end up being between Beulah and Shiloh for the region title every year. There is no quick fix to this, but I just don’t think a 3-class system will fly, and they will have to find ways to correct the problem within the current system.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Fri Mar 25, 2016 9:35 pmby The Schwab
The 3 class plan passed the district chairs meeting at the state tournament with a 14 to 2 vote. I would think the 3 class system will be here within 3 years
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Sat Mar 26, 2016 11:38 amby Wilbur
The Schwab wrote:The 3 class plan passed the district chairs meeting at the state tournament with a 14 to 2 vote. I would think the 3 class system will be here within 3 years
In 2002 the NDHSAA held a straw vote between all member schools whether or not to switch the girls basketball and volleyball seasons around. I think the vote was something like 164-5 not to do it. Guess what? The seasons were switched before the start of the 2002-03 school year. The governing body has the final call regardless of what a majority of their constituents want. If you go by a vote of people who don’t make the final decision, abortion would have never been legal in our country.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Sat Mar 26, 2016 2:38 pmby The Schwab
With that vote for switching volleyball to the fall, there was a group who was threatening to sue NDHSAA if they didn't switch seasons. Something to do with recruiting opportunities. I have a feeling that led to their decision
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Sun Mar 27, 2016 11:39 amby Bigbrew22
Moving Shiloh to region 7 wouldn't fix anything. Only way that might fly is if they put all privates in their own region so that 3 or 4 of them aren't in state every year. I would be willing to squash the 3 class argument if that was an option. Other than the distance between these schools is there any other arguments against a full private region
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Mon Mar 28, 2016 2:56 pmby Wilbur
How can all the parochial schools be in the same region? There are only 6 of them in Class B, so you would need at least six other schools to make up the region. Who would the other six schools be? Travel is a major concern under this scenario. Bishop Ryan and Our Redeemer’s are at least 100 miles from Williston and Bismarck; Williston is about 100 miles from Dickinson, Dickinson is 100 miles from Bismarck, and Bismarck is 190 miles from Fargo. I don’t see the NDHSAA even considering such a plan. everyone’s vision of all the parochial schools being in the same region in class b, or in another class together is not going to happen.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Mon Mar 28, 2016 3:07 pmby ndlionsfan
Wilbur wrote:How can all the parochial schools be in the same region? There are only 6 of them in Class B, so you would need at least six other schools to make up the region. Who would the other six schools be? Travel is a major concern under this scenario. Bishop Ryan and Our Redeemer’s are at least 100 miles from Williston and Bismarck; Williston is about 100 miles from Dickinson, Dickinson is 100 miles from Bismarck, and Bismarck is 190 miles from Fargo. I don’t see the NDHSAA even considering such a plan. everyone’s vision of all the parochial schools being in the same region in class b, or in another class together is not going to happen.
I agree. The travel would never allow it to work. Plus, if you were to put them all in a region you are just guaranteeing a private school in the state tourney each year and taking more opportunities away from the smaller schools. Yes I know, most years have 2-3 private schools in the state tourney, but putting them all in one region still doesn't fix any issue.
Re: The Latest Plan
Posted:
Tue Mar 29, 2016 8:07 amby packers21
ndlionsfan wrote:Wilbur wrote:How can all the parochial schools be in the same region? There are only 6 of them in Class B, so you would need at least six other schools to make up the region. Who would the other six schools be? Travel is a major concern under this scenario. Bishop Ryan and Our Redeemer’s are at least 100 miles from Williston and Bismarck; Williston is about 100 miles from Dickinson, Dickinson is 100 miles from Bismarck, and Bismarck is 190 miles from Fargo. I don’t see the NDHSAA even considering such a plan. everyone’s vision of all the parochial schools being in the same region in class b, or in another class together is not going to happen.
I agree. The travel would never allow it to work. Plus, if you were to put them all in a region you are just guaranteeing a private school in the state tourney each year and taking more opportunities away from the smaller schools. Yes I know, most years have 2-3 private schools in the state tourney, but putting them all in one region still doesn't fix any issue.
I totally agree this would never happen but lionsfan but I think that most ppl would be ok with 1 private in each state tournament, the problem is 3 of the final 4 and 5 of the 6 in region championships. If they had their own division and 1 was in the state tournament I think most ppl could swallow that. And actually the one issue I dont wanna see here is travel, go look at Dickinsons, Bismarck and Fargo schedules travel isnt a factor for them.