The Latest Plan

Class B Boys
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The Latest Plan

Postby heimer » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:49 am

So, the details of the new plan are coming out:

http://www.inforum.com/news/3987575-mcf ... rth-dakota

McFeely's delusional, and incorrect, references to "Hoosiers" aside (after all, Hoosiers can't happen, because we have two classes, not one, but he struggles with counting, I guess), this plan taught me a lesson.

It taught me to save my emails.

One of the sources quoted in this article (I can't say which, since I no longer have the email) ripped me a new one several years ago for daring to suggest that Watford City had an advantage over other schools due to their size.

(I mentioned the subject of the exchange, not the individual.)

Now, a plan generated by Watford City arbitrarily picks 425 as the cutoff. Gee, do you think it's because Watford City went looking for a number they don't think they'd hit, like ever?

Self-serving bull---t.

16-16-the rest, and if you hit the top 16, you're in. Too bad, so sad. All privates middle 16 unless they opt up. They opt up, two more replace them (only Shanley and St. Mary's are opting up to the top class).

This plan makes the absolute most sense. It mirrors football. But leave it to Watford City to devise a plan that someone who spoke on their behalf hated before, and now wants to put the Wolves' finishing touch on.

I'd probably still support it anyway.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby heimer » Wed Mar 16, 2016 12:34 pm

:roll:
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby Sportsrube » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:56 pm

We don't need to expand to a third class if the target is the private schools. If the target is the private schools then you just move all privates to Class A and the problem is solved. IF the targets is to try and balance the playing field for the small Class A's like VC, Jamestown, etc... and the large Class B's like Rugby, Beulah, Watford City, Grafton, etc.... Then you need to go to a 3 class system. Either way, something needs to change in my opinion.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby classB4ever » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:58 pm

I find it odd that Mr. McFeely weigh in on anything related to class b. Using a reference such as "Crown Jewel" feels almost belittling coming from a media source in Fargo and as of lately, Grand Forks. Their coverage of class b athletics in the past decade has been humorous at best and only getting worse. I certainly understand their bread and butter comes from the local colleges and class a schools. Therefore, him having an opinion column on this subject matter, IMHO, is a bit off key.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby district2fanog » Wed Mar 16, 2016 1:59 pm

if we want to give kids an opportunity to play in state tourney lets just go to a 4 class system.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby heimer » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:01 pm

Careful what you joke for?
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:02 pm

I will wait to comment more until I have a chance to actually see the plan presented, but if they're just going to attempt to go back to the 425 line I'll be disappointed. That was tried and failed miserably. I will agree with heimer actually and would feel a lot better about a set number of schools per class like football versus an enrollment figure.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby Gunning4ya » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:10 pm

Why is it ok to have four classes in football but basketball is just out of the question?
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby Flip » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:15 pm

McFeely doesn't like a 3 class system. He wants 2 classes. He has no evidence to support why 2 is better than 3.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby winner-within » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:33 pm

from the article:
The proposal Cranston will pitch would put schools with an enrollment of 425 in grades 9-12 in the top division, or Class A. That would put 18 schools in the top division, if private schools Fargo Shanley and Bismarck St. Mary's opt to stay. The middle division, or Class B, would be enrollments of 150-424 and all the private schools, regardless of their enrollment. It would be about 24-30 schools. That would leave about 83 schools in Class C, with enrollments of 149 or fewer. Any school could opt to compete in a higher class.

IMO
you'd really see potential co-ops fizz and current ones if still under trial stage go back to the way it was....changing some of this adding to the 83 taking away from the 24-30.....
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby wildcatfan » Wed Mar 16, 2016 2:56 pm

I get a kick out of him saying that SD State Tournaments have taken a hit? He needs to get a clue.

Have him check out the class B's at the Barnett Center in Aberdeen this weekend... packed every year, great atmosphere!

State A's in Rapid City filled, the only one that struggles is the AA's, but that should be well attended in Sioux Falls this year with 4 Sioux Falls schools making it in.

They have all three tournaments going on this same weekend, South Dakota Public Broadcasting streams all games also I believe, and still all are well attended! Not to mention NCAA tourney starts this weekend too.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby ndlionsfan » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:00 pm

winner-within wrote:from the article:
The proposal Cranston will pitch would put schools with an enrollment of 425 in grades 9-12 in the top division, or Class A. That would put 18 schools in the top division, if private schools Fargo Shanley and Bismarck St. Mary's opt to stay. The middle division, or Class B, would be enrollments of 150-424 and all the private schools, regardless of their enrollment. It would be about 24-30 schools. That would leave about 83 schools in Class C, with enrollments of 149 or fewer. Any school could opt to compete in a higher class.

IMO
you'd really see potential co-ops fizz and current ones if still under trial stage go back to the way it was....changing some of this adding to the 83 taking away from the 24-30.....


I believe you'd see some dissolve to stay out of the middle class, but don't know if you'd see a lot already in class C dissolve, even though it would be nice to see happen
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby Bison-Vikes #1 » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:14 pm

wildcatfan wrote:I get a kick out of him saying that SD State Tournaments have taken a hit? He needs to get a clue.

Have him check out the class B's at the Barnett Center in Aberdeen this weekend... packed every year, great atmosphere!

State A's in Rapid City filled, the only one that struggles is the AA's, but that should be well attended in Sioux Falls this year with 4 Sioux Falls schools making it in.

They have all three tournaments going on this same weekend, South Dakota Public Broadcasting streams all games also I believe, and still all are well attended! Not to mention NCAA tourney starts this weekend too.


Have heard this many times. Doesn't SD also split up their tournaments and keep the same tournaments in the same towns every year? Seems smart to me.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby Flip » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:17 pm

I asked in a different thread, but I'd love to see enrollment numbers.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby The Schwab » Wed Mar 16, 2016 3:23 pm

Bison-Vikes #1 wrote:
wildcatfan wrote:I get a kick out of him saying that SD State Tournaments have taken a hit? He needs to get a clue.

Have him check out the class B's at the Barnett Center in Aberdeen this weekend... packed every year, great atmosphere!

State A's in Rapid City filled, the only one that struggles is the AA's, but that should be well attended in Sioux Falls this year with 4 Sioux Falls schools making it in.

They have all three tournaments going on this same weekend, South Dakota Public Broadcasting streams all games also I believe, and still all are well attended! Not to mention NCAA tourney starts this weekend too.


Have heard this many times. Doesn't SD also split up their tournaments and keep the same tournaments in the same towns every year? Seems smart to me.


The 3 classes of Girls are the same weekend and all in different cities. The boys are the next weekend with all 3 classes in different cities. I believe they rotate which city gets which tournament every year.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby wildcatfan » Wed Mar 16, 2016 7:32 pm

Boys B has been in Aberdeen for at least the past 5 years, probably closer to 10 years. The boys A's and AA's switch back and forth between Rapid and Sioux Falls.

Don't follow the girls as much, but know this years girls tourney was in Huron.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby winner-within » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:32 pm

Dan's Take on things

Breaking-Up Is Dumb To Do
Thursday, March 17, 2016 10:33 a.m. by Daniel Gunderson


I had my dreams crushed on the night of March 16, 2007. I was a senior at North Border High School in Pembina, North Dakota. I had just turned 18-years-old. I was headed to Europe in the summer and headed to college at North Dakota State University in August.

My future was bright and the options were endless. Yet, on this particular night, all I could do was cry as I felt everything I had hoped for had been ripped out from under me.

I grew up in a small North Dakota town. That's an oxymoron term considering the state itself is just a series of small towns connected by endless fields of crops. However, Bathgate is small even for North Dakota. I believe our population was somewhere in the 50 or 60 range.

You had to make up things to keep busy. Sports was an easy activity. Pick-up basketball in the park across from my house was a constant. I instantly became attached.

I wanted to be as good as those older kids playing across the street. I even tried to play with those six to seven years my senior but that was somewhat futile. It didn't deter my determination.

The fire was only fueled when my parents would take me to North Border basketball games. I have to believe the first reason to bring me to these games was because my sister was a cheerleader. However, after seeing my interest in the team, they keep bringing me.

Those players on the 1999 and 2000 Bandits were my heroes. Both teams were really good. Just not good enough to make the Class B State Tournament.

The 2000 season was extremely painful. North Border was close but a blown call (in our very strong opinion) cost the Bandits a chance at holding on for the last shot of the game. Park River would get that opportunity and make the most of it by beating us in the closing seconds and heading to state.

I was crushed. That's all I could think about for weeks. I had never been to state but was convinced that we would travel with the team if they made it. North Border had never been to state. It was some mystical thing that only existed in a fantasy world. Never to be attained by being just a "good" team.

It also hurt because 2000 was the last year North Border would be made up of just Neche and Pembina High Schools. Next year we were adding Walhalla to the mix. Walhalla's reputation wasn't, um, great.

My sister's recollection of town includes a girl being dragged into a locker room by here hair during a basketball game. I didn't want anything to do with that. I'm sure Walhalla wasn't too thrilled about the idea of a co-op either.

Still, you couldn't deny the talent that our boy's basketball team was going to have. I can still remember the starting line-up for that 2000-01 team. Nathan Carrier and Warren Eagan from Walhalla. Aaron Bonaime and Dennis Delude from Walhalla. Jason Tryan from Pembina.

They weren't just good to me. They were great. The results can back that up. They won the 2001 Class B State Title. Each game they won by nine points. Each game more fantastic than the last.

That's when the dream was born for me. I wanted what they achieved. I wanted a state title. I wouldn't get that shot until the 2006-07 season. That was my senior year and the year that I had known since I was a seventh grader would be our best shot at state.

Our starters were Paul Meyer from Neche. Tanner Carpenter and Dustyn Chale from Pembina. Nick Chaput and Michael Mathison from Walhalla. Mike Smith and I came off our bench. We were good. Really good.

We won our Region 2 title in an overtime game against Midway-Minto. They had beat us twice during the year but not when it mattered. Half of the dream was completed.

The other half was winning a state title. Our quarterfinal match-up against Shiloh Christian went smoothly as we won to move on to the semifinals. Then, we ran into an issue. Namely, the Packineau twins from Parshall.

Daniel and Nathaniel were too much as Parshall defeated us to move on to the state title game. That was back on March 16, 2007. That was nine years ago. That night still is as clear as a bell in my mind.

I cried a lot after that defeat. I cried because the one thing I really wanted to accomplish in high school was gone. I cried because I wanted to be apart of a dream for some other young kid watching us. Thinking that they could do what we just did.

And, I cried because I would never be on a team as good as that one. As fun as they were to be apart of.

We would go on to finish in third place after beating Bishop Ryan. Still, I wanted that title. I still do.

I write all of this because there is the discussion ongoing, again, about dividing North Dakota into a three class system. `An idea that I find to be ill-conceived. Not because I don't think other schools don't deserve what I and many others have experienced. Because making a state tournament is a privilege, not a right.

Dividing this state into three classes in basketball waters down the accomplishment of making a state tournament. It makes it appear that you are just giving out participation awards.

The private school argument is another one I hear a lot. That they recruit. That they have a larger population to choose from. That these things give them an advantage over other schools in their region.

This comes off as because they are better, that means we separate them. Put them in their own class. It's one that looks like sour grapes other schools.

Don't do something you're going to regret in a couple years. Keep it the way it is. Keep it a two-class system. Keep the Class B the "crown jewel" of North Dakota high school tournaments.

And keep the dream alive for those from small towns like Kenmare and Strasburg and Bathgate.

You can follow Daniel "Pinto" Gunderson on Twitter at @pinto740TheFan or friend him on Facebook. You can hear him on his weekly sports talk show on 740 The Fan and 740thefan.com called Fan Sports Saturday from 8-10 a.m. Pinto is a Brand Manager, radio producer and talk show host within the Midwest Communications-Fargo company
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Mar 17, 2016 12:58 pm

Here are the enrollments from DPI. I sorted them including grades 8-11 for a good estimate for next year. I also included all co-ops together (hopefully got them all). Gives an idea at least of where the lines would be drawn in this plan.

Devils Lake 491
McKenzie Co 346
Wahpeton 341
Valley City 325
Grafton + ST 259
New Town 248
Ft Totten + Mwkn 231
Beulah 213
Central Cass 210
Hillsboro + CV 206
Stanley 200
Kindred 198
Lisbon 193
Standing Rock 186
Bottineau 182
Hazen 179
DLB 176
Rugby 175
Northern Cass 171
Harvey + WC 166
Carrington 162
South Heart + Belfield 162
Dunseith 161
Park River Area + FL 156
Langdon Area + Munich 153
Velva + Sawyer 153
May-Port CG 144
Killdeer + Halliday 139
Larimore 138
Edgeley + K + M 138
Fairmount + CT + Ros 138
Thompson 131
Oakes 129
Milnor + NS 129
Tioga 128
Beach 126
Bowman Co 124
St John 123
Minto + Midway 123
Cavalier 122
Berthold 122
Valley-Edinburg + Drayton 121
Hettinger + Scranton 120
Garrison 119
Kidder County 119
North Border 117
Northwood + Hatton 116
Wyndmere + Lidg 116
LaMoure + LM 113
Linton + HMB 113
Napoleon + GS 111
Ellendale 106
New Rockford-Sheyenne 105
Nedrose 103
Wilton + Wing 103
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood 101
Glenburn 99
Enderlin Area 95
Surrey 95
South Prairie 94
TGU 94
New Salem-Almont 93
Richardton-Taylor 93
Wishek + Ashley 93
Glen Ullin + Hebron 93
Medina + PB 92
Richland 90
Divide County 88
Dakota Prairie 85
Leeds + Maddock 84
Parshall 83
Hankinson 82
Kenmare 82
Turtle Lake-Mercer + M 82
Hope + FS 82
Barnes County North 81
Flasher 81
Washburn 80
Ray 79
North Star + Stark 79
Lakota + Edmore 75
Maple Valley 74
Mott-Regent 72
Trenton 70
Underwood 70
Rolla 69
Warwick 69
New England 68
Burke Central + Bow 63
Rolette + Wolford 62
Sargent Central 60
Elgin-New Leipzig 58
Griggs County Central 18 57
Center-Stanton 56
Midkota + Kensal 56
Westhope + New 56
Drake/Ana 55
Mandaree 52
Max 51
Powers Lake 50
Alexander 49
Grenora 48
Strasburg + Zeeland 48
Solen 46
White Shield 46
Selfridge 42
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby winner-within » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:14 pm

ndlionsfan wrote:Here are the enrollments from DPI. I sorted them including grades 8-11 for a good estimate for next year. I also included all co-ops together (hopefully got them all). Gives an idea at least of where the lines would be drawn in this plan.

Devils Lake 491
McKenzie Co 346
Wahpeton 341
Valley City 325
Grafton + ST 259
New Town 248
Ft Totten + Mwkn 231
Beulah 213
Central Cass 210
Hillsboro + CV 206
Stanley 200
Kindred 198
Lisbon 193
Standing Rock 186
Bottineau 182
Hazen 179
DLB 176
Rugby 175
Northern Cass 171
Harvey + WC 166
Carrington 162
South Heart + Belfield 162
Dunseith 161
Park River Area + FL 156
Langdon Area + Munich 153
Velva + Sawyer 153
May-Port CG 144
Killdeer + Halliday 139
Larimore 138
Edgeley + K + M 138
Fairmount + CT + Ros 138
Thompson 131
Oakes 129
Milnor + NS 129
Tioga 128
Beach 126
Bowman Co 124
St John 123
Minto + Midway 123
Cavalier 122
Berthold 122
Valley-Edinburg + Drayton 121
Hettinger + Scranton 120
Garrison 119
Kidder County 119
North Border 117
Northwood + Hatton 116
Wyndmere + Lidg 116
LaMoure + LM 113
Linton + HMB 113
Napoleon + GS 111
Ellendale 106
New Rockford-Sheyenne 105
Nedrose 103
Wilton + Wing 103
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood 101
Glenburn 99
Enderlin Area 95
Surrey 95
South Prairie 94
TGU 94
New Salem-Almont 93
Richardton-Taylor 93
Wishek + Ashley 93
Glen Ullin + Hebron 93
Medina + PB 92
Richland 90
Divide County 88
Dakota Prairie 85
Leeds + Maddock 84
Parshall 83
Hankinson 82
Kenmare 82
Turtle Lake-Mercer + M 82
Hope + FS 82
Barnes County North 81
Flasher 81
Washburn 80
Ray 79
North Star + Stark 79
Lakota + Edmore 75
Maple Valley 74
Mott-Regent 72
Trenton 70
Underwood 70
Rolla 69
Warwick 69
New England 68
Burke Central + Bow 63
Rolette + Wolford 62
Sargent Central 60
Elgin-New Leipzig 58
Griggs County Central 18 57
Center-Stanton 56
Midkota + Kensal 56
Westhope + New 56
Drake/Ana 55
Mandaree 52
Max 51
Powers Lake 50
Alexander 49
Grenora 48
Strasburg + Zeeland 48
Solen 46
White Shield 46
Selfridge 42


Watford City?
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby ndlionsfan » Thu Mar 17, 2016 1:32 pm

McKenzie Co., #2 on the list
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby scruffy » Thu Mar 17, 2016 4:57 pm

Easy to see why Watford City want the magic number to be 425! lol Logic like that assures us that the plan will never go forward.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby Flip » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:02 pm

If you're a fan of 3 classes...

Image
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby The Schwab » Thu Mar 17, 2016 10:31 pm

If it's ever going to pass, this is the year.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby heimer » Fri Mar 18, 2016 12:13 am

My thoughts exactly.
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Re: The Latest Plan

Postby ndlionsfan » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:18 am

Took the FB plan numbers with the multiplier for reduced/free meals, separated them into bball team and sorted, doubling the enrollments as it is only males. Gives an idea of another option to separate

Devils Lake 376.86
McKenzie Co 340.18
Wahpeton 311.52
Valley City 263.36
Central Cass 236.46
Grafton + ST 233.62
Beulah 211.58
New Town 208.78
Stanley 196.54
Oak Grove 193.64
Hillsboro + CV 187.96
Dickinson Trinity 184.06
Kindred 183.72
Hazen 181.7
Lisbon 170.16
DLB 165.54
Bottineau 158.88
Velva + Sawyer 155.9
Langdon Area + Munich 154.14
South Heart + Belfield 153.08
Standing Rock 152.7
Ft Totten + Mwkn 151
Harvey + WC 145.84
Rugby 141.28
Northern Cass 140
Bowman Co 138.02
Shiloh 136.78
Oakes 134.52
Park River Area + FL 133.48
Thompson 131.42
Tioga 127.88
May-Port CG 127.3
Killdeer + Halliday 124.6
Cavalier 124.16
Larimore 122.58
Milnor + NS 119.18
Carrington 118.66
Northwood + Hatton 115.14
Mohall-Lansford-Sherwood 112.18
Garrison 110.36
Beach 106.94
Kidder County 105.26
Dunseith 104.38
Hettinger + Scranton 104.38
North Border 103.6
Surrey 99.38
Washburn 98.6
Minot Ryan 98.54
Linton + HMB 97.88
Wyndmere + Lidg 97.58
Valley-Edinburg + Drayton 97.42
Fairmount + CT + Ros 96
Nedrose 93.9
Wilton + Wing 91.88
Edgeley + K + M 89.62
Napoleon + GS 88.58
Minto + Midway 86.74
LaMoure + LM 85.84
Divide County 85.32
Kenmare 83.6
Glen Ullin + Hebron 81.04
Glenburn 80.96
New Salem-Almont 78.7
Wishek + Ashley 77.56
Berthold 76.38
TGU 76.36
Leeds + Maddock 76.36
Richardton-Taylor 75.78
Hankinson 74.96
Medina + PB 74.24
Richland 73.54
New Rockford-Sheyenne 73.38
Hope + FS 72.34
New England 72.04
Enderlin Area 71.86
Trenton 71.64
Ray 67.9
Dakota Prairie 67.62
Barnes County North 67.34
Ellendale 66.38
Maple Valley 65.94
Turtle Lake-Mercer + M 65.5
Lakota + Edmore 62.84
North Star + Stark 62.5
Sargent Central 62.08
Our Redeemers 62
Griggs County Central 18 61.96
Parshall 60.12
Williston Trinity 60
Westhope + New 59.96
Burke Central + Bow 58.52
Flasher 57.38
Mott-Regent 56.84
Underwood 56.3
Drake/Ana 54.8
Max 53.66
Strasburg + Zeeland 52.46
Rolla 51.94
St John 51.68
Rolette + Wolford 50.08
Alexander 48.3
Elgin-New Leipzig 47.62
Center-Stanton 47.54
Warwick 46
Powers Lake 45.42
Midkota + Kensal 45.38
Mandaree 36.74
Grenora 33.74
Selfridge 28
Solen 27
South Prairie 26
White Shield 22.66
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