2015-16 State Tournament

[winner-within]

I think the one thing people miss with FW's is that they are true Ballers in the sense of their football team isn't good and that they live a die for the sport of BBall.....In MN they're considered a "treat" to watch and MN has Red Lake....four winds brings a mix of flare to the game yet can play disciplined ball when they want.....but you can tell these guys have spent a lot of time together on the Hard Court....and I would go on to say their program has come a long ways when it comes to being able to dominate and that is because of their Coach IMO.....Fw's wasn't know for executing the way they do now days....they were way more free lanced at one time.....I do not think that there is an advantage with their enrollment or anything like that....I believe their advantage is created by the time and effort they spend playing Basketball and their Coach....I will go on to say that they look naturally gifted in the sport.....each one of them.

There is no question they are ballers. They will be traveling for tourneys in the next 2 weeks following the B. And will be on the road after that nonstop until next bb season starts. Have been following them for many years. The Smith's are great coaches and demand discipline. They have done a great job with the team. Won't get into an argument about their enrollment but they are by far the biggest in Region 4 and nobody will touch them for years in the region. Basketball drives their school. No showing in football. Just being honest. Unfortunate they don't get the same showing for the other sports.

not arguing either.....but I have one question as to how there enrollment helps
why has it been he same players on this 4 year run? and when you look at the team I don't see 6'9" 6'6"
I don't see weight room, football recruits and I would go on to say if any were cut they couldn't make a lot of teams starting 5 varsity in all of class B....like I have said, the difference is their passion for the "one" sport...Its been known from the Crow of Wyoming, to the Ojibway of Cass Lake and Red Lake MN and the 3 affiliated of New Town, parshall, manderie, the turtle mountain area (Belcourt, dunseith, st. john) french Metis, Chippewa that there is sacredness in a Basketball gym or on an outside hoop....so that IMO is their driver not advantage .....and I hope the 3 class thing isn't coming down the pipe just because of FW's 4 year run....but I would believe that if the talk all come out right in the midst of the "B" that it plays a 75% part over everything including privates......Congrates to The Indians and to Jason Feather....his dad is smiling down on them and him today!

[RedDirtFan]

I'm all for saying "good on you" for the kids doing a prayer circle so long as we all acknowledge we'd have said "good on you" to young kids of ANY faith praying after the game. I believe in separation of church and state but they have the right to pray together if they want to, but I just have a feeling there'd be a huge uproar had it been students of another faith praying openly. Please convince me that I'm wrong about that.

[HONKER]

I think the one thing people miss with FW's is that they are true Ballers in the sense of their football team isn't good and that they live a die for the sport of BBall.....In MN they're considered a "treat" to watch and MN has Red Lake....four winds brings a mix of flare to the game yet can play disciplined ball when they want.....but you can tell these guys have spent a lot of time together on the Hard Court....and I would go on to say their program has come a long ways when it comes to being able to dominate and that is because of their Coach IMO.....Fw's wasn't know for executing the way they do now days....they were way more free lanced at one time.....I do not think that there is an advantage with their enrollment or anything like that....I believe their advantage is created by the time and effort they spend playing Basketball and their Coach....I will go on to say that they look naturally gifted in the sport.....each one of them.

There is no question they are ballers. They will be traveling for tourneys in the next 2 weeks following the B. And will be on the road after that nonstop until next bb season starts. Have been following them for many years. The Smith's are great coaches and demand discipline. They have done a great job with the team. Won't get into an argument about their enrollment but they are by far the biggest in Region 4 and nobody will touch them for years in the region. Basketball drives their school. No showing in football. Just being honest. Unfortunate they don't get the same showing for the other sports.

not arguing either.....but I have one question as to how there enrollment helps
why has it been he same players on this 4 year run? and when you look at the team I don't see 6'9" 6'6"
I don't see weight room, football recruits and I would go on to say if any were cut they couldn't make a lot of teams starting 5 varsity in all of class B....like I have said, the difference is their passion for the "one" sport...Its been known from the Crow of Wyoming, to the Ojibway of Cass Lake and Red Lake MN and the 3 affiliated of New Town, parshall, manderie, the turtle mountain area (Belcourt, dunseith, st. john) french Metis, Chippewa that there is sacredness in a Basketball gym or on an outside hoop....so that IMO is their driver not advantage .....and I hope the 3 class thing isn't coming down the pipe just because of FW's 4 year run....but I would believe that if the talk all come out right in the midst of the "B" that it plays a 75% part over everything including privates......Congrates to The Indians and to Jason Feather....his dad is smiling down on them and him today!

It hasn't been a 4 year run.

[thefourwinds]

I'm all for saying "good on you" for the kids doing a prayer circle so long as we all acknowledge we'd have said "good on you" to young kids of ANY faith praying after the game. I believe in separation of church and state but they have the right to pray together if they want to, but I just have a feeling there'd be a huge uproar had it been students of another faith praying openly. Please convince me that I'm wrong about that.

Since not every religion believes the same things or prays for the same things, I think such a hypothetical scenario would depend a lot on what they would be praying for.

[Howie]

I was talking about the fans, one fan that I witnessed on 2 of the 3 nights with my own eyes. I was very impressed with the Our Reedemers players (the one kid got caught up in the excitement, I get it). My reasoning is not dumb. If I'm a parent and I'm paying tuition for a private school, probably because I don't agree with the teachings of public school and I want my child to have a more "focused" education, I would hopefully have more class then to wave at a player when he has to sit out because of foul trouble (Brody on Thursday and McCay on Saturday) or to flip off the FWM crowd.

Those of you that don't have a problem with the prayer because it is the freedom of religion, please remember the laws of the land. The NDHSAA is a public entity, the same form of public entity that is bypassed to enroll in private school. If you don't have a problem with the prayer in the setting of a public state tournament that is your right. However, if you have a problem with one of my 3 scenarios then you are being hypocritical. If you don't have a problem with the three scenarios I commend you for being a very fair person or for lying, probably the latter of the two.

Scenario 1: a Sikh man walks into the state tournament to cheer on his son. Do you judge him based on what he's wearing? Do you shun him and avoid eye contact? If you are unsure why he's wearing a turban, do you ask him to tell you about it? I'm sure he'd love to tell you about it.

Scenario 2: a player who is of ______ religion (can't remember what the name of it is, I want to say Mennonite but I'm not positive. I do know of situations where players couldn't play in Friday games because of this in ND) qualifies for the state tournament, team wins the first game and the player won't be allowed to participate in the Friday evening game because his religion doesn't allow participation after sun down on Fridays, they were aware of this scenario all year long and asked the NDHSAA if that happened if they could flip the games on Friday (semis in the afternoon). How many of you would be up in arms if they did, before you answer remember that high school sports are about the kids and you had no problem with letting other religions be on display during this years state tournament.

Scenario 3: a player, who is Islam, is going to play in the state tournament. Talks to his mosque and secures enough prayer rugs for both teams in the games he plays in. After the game he invites his fellow teammates and opponents to join him in the center of the court and use the prayer rugs to worship and give thanks in their own ways.

[B-oldtimer]

The third class is not because of four Winds but if you look at proposed make up the new class is that these 30 or something teams have been at state in last 12 years majority of the time and sure have played in regional finals on consistent basis. Also if you look at North Star and Cavalier two of schools that have made state in last 12 years multiple times and not part of the group of 30 you will notice they are still one of larger schools in there regions and were not cooping with anybody else so they had there kids in one school and one town playing together a tremendous advantage over a lot of other small class b schools. So now look at teams going to state there were few outside of the 30 and two above I mentioned and if they were usually from region 3 and region 8 which has fewest of 30 teams in there regions. So the state tournament has been pretty much small club of schools going to state and not like it once was where teams maybe made it once or twice in generation to state that has not been happening lately and the scores between these 30 teams and rest of class b have been widening I feel in last few years. Nobody wants to admit when your community has fallen behind but I think realization has been hitting quite a few of these schools with declining enrollments and who coop with next to even remain competitive.

Four Winds played very good game and deserve this championship they have worked very hard to achieve this. Four Winds is all about basketball they are not very competitive in Footballl and they don't even field a baseball team. They play basketball year around there and it shows in there abilities.

[vikingman]

"Also if you look at North Star and Cavalier two of schools that have made state in last 12 years multiple times and not part of the group of 30 you will notice they are still one of larger schools in there regions"

North Star is, at most, the 7th largest school in Region 4 (out of 13), and is pretty much even in enrollment with 3 or 4 other schools, so from year to year, they could go down to 10th or so.

Cavalier is also the 7th largest school in their region (13 teams).

NS has had some great teams over the past 8 years, yet in many years they have struggled to have any help off the bench at all because of low numbers.

[thefourwinds]

However, if you have a problem with one of my 3 scenarios then you are being hypocritical. If you don't have a problem with the three scenarios I commend you for being a very fair person or for lying, probably the latter of the two.

Since you have already decided what you believe are both the only appropriate responses, and you have already judged any person's reasoning (without hearing any), and since you ignored the response I already gave, there's not much point in responding any further.

[winner-within]

The third class is not because of four Winds but if you look at proposed make up the new class is that these 30 or something teams have been at state in last 12 years majority of the time and sure have played in regional finals on consistent basis. Also if you look at North Star and Cavalier two of schools that have made state in last 12 years multiple times and not part of the group of 30 you will notice they are still one of larger schools in there regions and were not cooping with anybody else so they had there kids in one school and one town playing together a tremendous advantage over a lot of other small class b schools. So now look at teams going to state there were few outside of the 30 and two above I mentioned and if they were usually from region 3 and region 8 which has fewest of 30 teams in there regions. So the state tournament has been pretty much small club of schools going to state and not like it once was where teams maybe made it once or twice in generation to state that has not been happening lately and the scores between these 30 teams and rest of class b have been widening I feel in last few years. Nobody wants to admit when your community has fallen behind but I think realization has been hitting quite a few of these schools with declining enrollments and who coop with next to even remain competitive.

Four Winds played very good game and deserve this championship they have worked very hard to achieve this. Four Winds is all about basketball they are not very competitive in Footballl and they don't even field a baseball team. They play basketball year around there and it shows in there abilities.

I think I've visited this a couple times....like I said it isn't enrollment, its LIFE.....how may FW players play D1 or even D2? they seek that recognition in LIFE in High School because its tough getting it for them after high school and their ability is not totally because of "year round" there is some natural ability involved on a across the board basis...
and don't fret if yourself.....Cavalier is a Football town......they won Class AA 3 years in a row when enrollment had them at at least Class A, squeaking in on 9-man....then when moving to 9-man we know what happened....Basketball? they are a true small B school in their region...no co-op, with declining enrollment....

[Howie]

However, if you have a problem with one of my 3 scenarios then you are being hypocritical. If you don't have a problem with the three scenarios I commend you for being a very fair person or for lying, probably the latter of the two.

Since you have already decided what you believe are both the only appropriate responses, and you have already judged any person's reasoning (without hearing any), and since you ignored the response I already gave, there's not much point in responding any further.

What didn't I respond to? I said it was the fan, not the player who did the flipping of the bird. It was the player who celebrated in the face of the opposition.

Also in your first response to me : I never once said Kenmare played basketball the right way. I did not say our reedemers didn't play basketball the right way, actually I love the way they play. Teams that play inside out are a dying breed, but I love to watch it.

Also you just so happened to leave out the first part of the statement in the quote, referencing the fact that if you were in favor of the prayer on the floor after the game, then your quote of me followed.

I don't shun your response, I would actually like to hear it. This is a board to discuss topics. I have discussed my views, not belittled anyone else's opinion on the matter. Can you say the same? My opinion and reasoning has been called dumb, in my opinion my thoughts are we based on facts, not "blinded by the light"

[thefourwinds]

However, if you have a problem with one of my 3 scenarios then you are being hypocritical. If you don't have a problem with the three scenarios I commend you for being a very fair person or for lying, probably the latter of the two.

Since you have already decided what you believe are both the only appropriate responses, and you have already judged any person's reasoning (without hearing any), and since you ignored the response I already gave, there's not much point in responding any further.

What didn't I respond to? I said it was the fan, not the player who did the flipping of the bird. It was the player who celebrated in the face of the opposition.

Also in your first response to me : I never once said Kenmare played basketball the right way. I did not say our reedemers didn't play basketball the right way, actually I love the way they play. Teams that play inside out are a dying breed, but I love to watch it.

Also you just so happened to leave out the first part of the statement in the quote, referencing the fact that if you were in favor of the prayer on the floor after the game, then your quote of me followed.

I don't shun your response, I would actually like to hear it. This is a board to discuss topics. I have discussed my views, not belittled anyone else's opinion on the matter. Can you say the same? My opinion and reasoning has been called dumb, in my opinion my thoughts are we based on facts, not "blinded by the light"

It was someone else who called your opinions dumb, not I.

This was the response of mine that I said you ignored:

"Since not every religion believes the same things or prays for the same things, I think such a hypothetical scenario would depend a lot on what they would be praying for."

Some religions pray for the coerced conversion or violent death of anyone who won't convert. I do not think that is compatible with the US Constitution's definition of religious liberty, nor do I think the Founding Fathers believed it to be so either.

[Mandan]

Scenario 2: a player who is of ______ religion (can't remember what the name of it is, I want to say Mennonite but I'm not positive. I do know of situations where players couldn't play in Friday games because of this in ND) qualifies for the state tournament, team wins the first game and the player won't be allowed to participate in the Friday evening game because his religion doesn't allow participation after sun down on Fridays, they were aware of this scenario all year long and asked the NDHSAA if that happened if they could flip the games on Friday (semis in the afternoon). How many of you would be up in arms if they did, before you answer remember that high school sports are about the kids and you had no problem with letting other religions be on display during this years state tournament.

The only religion I know of that treats Friday as a Holy day like that is Islam.
Most Christians are Sunday, Jews and Seventh-Day Adventists are Saturday.

[NodakQ2]

Scenario 2: a player who is of ______ religion (can't remember what the name of it is, I want to say Mennonite but I'm not positive. I do know of situations where players couldn't play in Friday games because of this in ND) qualifies for the state tournament, team wins the first game and the player won't be allowed to participate in the Friday evening game because his religion doesn't allow participation after sun down on Fridays, they were aware of this scenario all year long and asked the NDHSAA if that happened if they could flip the games on Friday (semis in the afternoon). How many of you would be up in arms if they did, before you answer remember that high school sports are about the kids and you had no problem with letting other religions be on display during this years state tournament.

The only religion I know of that treats Friday as a Holy day like that is Islam.
Most Christians are Sunday, Jews and Seventh-Day Adventists are Saturday.

Guessing he means Seventh-Day Advents regarding Saturday night instead of Friday.

[Sticks11]

Maybe get back to discussing the State tournament and not religion?

[UNDSiouxfan]

Thursday, March 17th
#2 Bismarck Shiloh Christian def. Grafton 62-49
#3 Minot Our Redeemer's def. Strasburg/Zeeland 63-62
#1 Four Winds-Minnewaukan def. Northern Cass 73-70
#4 Dickinson Trinity def. Kenmare 64-53



Couple thoughts...
Northern Cass will not get blown out by Four Winds as many of you have predicted. They can handle a press and they have great guard play. IMO this could be Four Winds' toughest game of the tournament but we shall see.
Rooting for the small schools this year -- Go Kenmare, Strasburg/Zeeland, & Northern Cass!

It appears Region 1 represented the state very well at the tournament. My assessment of their quarterfinal game was right on cue.

Big congrats to Four Winds. Feather was deadly, I felt McKay could score anytime he touched the ball, their PG Redfox commanded their team and ran the point very well, and Three Irons...well I thought he was A MAN this tournament. A 5'10" center that pushed around the big boys. I can only imagine what the kid would be like playing football.

Congrats to Northern Cass and you showed great class with cheering on the Special Olympics team at halftime. Championship worthy!

Last thought...if you want a good read here it is...

http://thepinkepost.com/2016/03/class-b-family/

This article defines "Class B" basketball and what it needs to get back to.

[Kwoods]

In the first semi final game, how many of the starters have been a part of their respective schools for their whole school career? My guess, 3.

For ORCS
I don't mind the question, but there is a lot of negativity in your guess.
All the ORCS starters have played their whole basketball career together.
The four seniors started organized ball together in 4th grade. Steede's family moved to Minot from MN before his freshman year.

So they have been in the ORCS school system their whole careers? I had heard that 4 of them used to go to Minot public schools. If they haven't then my guess would be way off

Howie, there are only 3 of the varsity players that came to ORCS from the Minot Public system as 9th graders, three current sophomores (Abel, Mau, Wetzel).





Of the four seniors that have started every game this season, all of them have played on the Knights' teams since they were in elementary school. Van Lith, Reiten, and Talley started playing together on the Knights' teams in 3rd grade. Demme joined them when he picked up the game in 5th grade. Demme and Talley are homeschooled, but have never played on any other school's team but the Knights since elementary school.

Steede's father moved from MN to Minot for work before his 9th-grade season. Steede has played for the Knights ever since, except that he red-shirted a year due to health issues.

Of the other players, Leyton Lang, also a sophomore, has played on the Knights his entire school career, as have Taylor Strand and Brett Nunziato (both juniors).

So your insinuation, at least regarding ORCS, is nearly baseless.

How can you red shirt in high school?
If Demme and Talley are home schooled why did they choose OR to play basketball at?

[heimer]

Wow, okay, a lot going on here.

First, I think, but not sure, most Jews regard the Sabbath as sundown Friday to sundown Saturday. So, Friday night would be holy to them.

Second, the prayer was voluntary. If you don't want to participate, don't.

Third, Freedom of Religion extends to public facilities. Even though I think the NDHSAA got it WRONG with the Shanley-Central Cass deal (but rich farmers sure know how to put up a stink), these are two different cases. The Shanley prayer was a public, scheduled prayer that held up the start of a game. The prayer at state was not public, it was private for the players that chose to be involved, and held up nothing. No one was forced to participate over the PA system.

It's stupid any of us took even five minutes to waste time on this issue, but as long as I'm here, I thought it was one of the best moments that I've ever seen in sports. Two teams that just battled intermingled to give thanks for even having the opportunity to play. The coach of a team that lost sharing an intimate moment with both his team and players he just coached against.

If you're looking for the ULTIMATE display of sportsmanship, we just saw it.

If you're looking for the ultimate display of ignorance, it's the fact that when sportsmanship hits us directly in the face, we can't recognize it. Not at all odd it involved prayer, because when the man we pray to showed up on the planet, we rejected him too.

[Howie]

thefourwinds: The comment you say I didn't respond to was in response to RedDirtFan, I would respond to it if you'd like, but I don't have any problem with people praying in their own way on their own terms.

Kwoods: It's funny that you bring this up about red-shirting, I have also heard an example this year of a player from Shiloh who wasn't able to play last year being granted an extra year of eligibility. I've never once heard of this happening in a public school setting.

Sticks11: I am talking about the state tournament and things that went on with the state tournament and posing some questions about what I witnessed.

heimer: I don't consider raising the question of religious equality to be a waste of our time, I don't consider bringing up the rights of everyone in this country as a waste of our time. I brought up three scenarios to those who thought the prayer at center court was the "greatest thing of all time" to happen at the state tournament and asked them if they would have felt the same way if it were any of my scenarios (in this situation number 3 for sure). The greatest thing I saw this weekend at the State Tournament was by FAR the Northern Cass team staying out to cheer on the Special Olympic athletes for the half-time show. That was a first class move and I will forever talk to people about how awesome that was. If you are from Northern Cass and are reading this, BE PROUD!

The discussion of the prayer makes me think of a quote I was once told, "Fair isn't always equal".

[scruffy]

Maybe get back to discussing the State tournament and not religion?

Amen to that. It's unfortunate some would rather see fist fights after a game instead of a show of sportsmanship.

[Howie]

Maybe get back to discussing the State tournament and not religion?

Amen to that. It's unfortunate some would rather see fist fights after a game instead of a show of sportsmanship.

Yes, because that's what I'd love to see

[caramba]

Wow, talk about a bunch of butt hurt parents. Its really a good thing that the kids play the game.
And the comments of how Kenmare is the dirtiest team in the state, well, you should be ashamed.
Perhaps you should take your beer bellies to the gym along with your big mouths and childish attitudes and grow up a little.

Seriously ,I watched 7 games in person at the State B and can only say the BB players showed poise and respect towards one another regardless of the outcome. The referees did a great job as well as the whole staff at the Dome.
Congrats to Four Winds, as well as Our Redeemers, and to all the teams who gave it their best effort to advance.

[bisonation6]

I was talking about the fans, one fan that I witnessed on 2 of the 3 nights with my own eyes. I was very impressed with the Our Reedemers players (the one kid got caught up in the excitement, I get it). My reasoning is not dumb. If I'm a parent and I'm paying tuition for a private school, probably because I don't agree with the teachings of public school and I want my child to have a more "focused" education, I would hopefully have more class then to wave at a player when he has to sit out because of foul trouble (Brody on Thursday and McCay on Saturday) or to flip off the FWM crowd.

Those of you that don't have a problem with the prayer because it is the freedom of religion, please remember the laws of the land. The NDHSAA is a public entity, the same form of public entity that is bypassed to enroll in private school. If you don't have a problem with the prayer in the setting of a public state tournament that is your right. However, if you have a problem with one of my 3 scenarios then you are being hypocritical. If you don't have a problem with the three scenarios I commend you for being a very fair person or for lying, probably the latter of the two.

Scenario 1: a Sikh man walks into the state tournament to cheer on his son. Do you judge him based on what he's wearing? Do you shun him and avoid eye contact? If you are unsure why he's wearing a turban, do you ask him to tell you about it? I'm sure he'd love to tell you about it.

Scenario 2: a player who is of ______ religion (can't remember what the name of it is, I want to say Mennonite but I'm not positive. I do know of situations where players couldn't play in Friday games because of this in ND) qualifies for the state tournament, team wins the first game and the player won't be allowed to participate in the Friday evening game because his religion doesn't allow participation after sun down on Fridays, they were aware of this scenario all year long and asked the NDHSAA if that happened if they could flip the games on Friday (semis in the afternoon). How many of you would be up in arms if they did, before you answer remember that high school sports are about the kids and you had no problem with letting other religions be on display during this years state tournament.

Scenario 3: a player, who is Islam, is going to play in the state tournament. Talks to his mosque and secures enough prayer rugs for both teams in the games he plays in. After the game he invites his fellow teammates and opponents to join him in the center of the court and use the prayer rugs to worship and give thanks in their own ways.

It doesn't matter if the NDHSAA is a public entity. Freedom of Religion doesn't mean Freedom from Religion. You are not forced to pray! If a member of Four Winds or any other team was an atheist, agnostic, Jew, Mormon, Jehova's Witness, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., they could simply walk away without getting in trouble. It's their right to walk away, but it is also ORCS right to pray according to the Constitution.

[heimer]

I brought up three scenarios to those who thought the prayer at center court was the "greatest thing of all time" to happen at the state tournament and asked them if they would have felt the same way if it were any of my scenarios (in this situation number 3 for sure). The greatest thing I saw this weekend at the State Tournament was by FAR the Northern Cass team staying out to cheer on the Special Olympic athletes for the half-time show. That was a first class move and I will forever talk to people about how awesome that was. If you are from Northern Cass and are reading this, BE PROUD!

The discussion of the prayer makes me think of a quote I was once told, "Fair isn't always equal".

1: The Sikh-guy example is not applicable, as it only has to do with how he is treated by fans. Personally, I could care less what religion a person is when interacting with them.

2: Christians skip religious activities all the time to accommodate activities schedules. Typically, it's the church that moves it's activities to accommodate the school. But, the NDHSAA is not under any requirement to accommodate any religion, and they didn't accommodate any religion Saturday night. A group of people chose to pray at center court after the tournament was over.

3: If the Islamic folks want to bring prayer rugs and pray, let them. Just don't b---h when people don't join the prayer. I'm guessing many wouldn't. The prayer was VOLUNTARY, and if kids from Four Winds didn't want to participate, I'm sure they didn't have to.

Your "scenarios" are solutions looking for a problem, much like all other religious discrimination complaints.

[Kwoods]

I was talking about the fans, one fan that I witnessed on 2 of the 3 nights with my own eyes. I was very impressed with the Our Reedemers players (the one kid got caught up in the excitement, I get it). My reasoning is not dumb. If I'm a parent and I'm paying tuition for a private school, probably because I don't agree with the teachings of public school and I want my child to have a more "focused" education, I would hopefully have more class then to wave at a player when he has to sit out because of foul trouble (Brody on Thursday and McCay on Saturday) or to flip off the FWM crowd.

Those of you that don't have a problem with the prayer because it is the freedom of religion, please remember the laws of the land. The NDHSAA is a public entity, the same form of public entity that is bypassed to enroll in private school. If you don't have a problem with the prayer in the setting of a public state tournament that is your right. However, if you have a problem with one of my 3 scenarios then you are being hypocritical. If you don't have a problem with the three scenarios I commend you for being a very fair person or for lying, probably the latter of the two.

Scenario 1: a Sikh man walks into the state tournament to cheer on his son. Do you judge him based on what he's wearing? Do you shun him and avoid eye contact? If you are unsure why he's wearing a turban, do you ask him to tell you about it? I'm sure he'd love to tell you about it.

Scenario 2: a player who is of ______ religion (can't remember what the name of it is, I want to say Mennonite but I'm not positive. I do know of situations where players couldn't play in Friday games because of this in ND) qualifies for the state tournament, team wins the first game and the player won't be allowed to participate in the Friday evening game because his religion doesn't allow participation after sun down on Fridays, they were aware of this scenario all year long and asked the NDHSAA if that happened if they could flip the games on Friday (semis in the afternoon). How many of you would be up in arms if they did, before you answer remember that high school sports are about the kids and you had no problem with letting other religions be on display during this years state tournament.

Scenario 3: a player, who is Islam, is going to play in the state tournament. Talks to his mosque and secures enough prayer rugs for both teams in the games he plays in. After the game he invites his fellow teammates and opponents to join him in the center of the court and use the prayer rugs to worship and give thanks in their own ways.

It doesn't matter if the NDHSAA is a public entity. Freedom of Religion doesn't mean Freedom from Religion. You are not forced to pray! If a member of Four Winds or any other team was an atheist, agnostic, Jew, Mormon, Jehova's Witness, Muslim, Buddhist, etc., they could simply walk away without getting in trouble. It's their right to walk away, but it is also ORCS right to pray according to the Constitution.

I really enjoyed the sight of all these athletes coming together in prayer. The FW players obviously wanted to be apart of that special moment. The question I have is why was OR allowed to share their beliefs in prayer but FW wasn't allowed to share their beliefs and religion by being allowed to play their honor song. Why was one allowed but the other wasn't?

[heimer]

Two answers:

1. I would have no problem with their honor song. That would be more public, and would force the crowd to "participate" much the same way Central Cass shut down prayer at Shanley. I can see the argument, but I stress that I don't agree with the argument. If they wanted an honor song, fine with me.

2. Understand that, after this, the NDHSAA will also take Minot OR's religious rights just like they took Shanley's. This will be the last time we see this at state.