North Dakota Preps

Are officials letting more traveling happen this year? They go to 3 officials and I've seen more traveling not called as I ever have.

I don't think so. As a matter of fact, if you watch video of many traveling calls, and slow them down, they are not traveling at all.

d_fense wrote:I don't think so. As a matter of fact, if you watch video of many traveling calls, and slow them down, they are not traveling at all.

I have been starting to feel this way too. Maybe not so much out around the perimeter, but on drives to the basket in particular you'll find refs call it on player that is just so smooth that instinct tells them it has to be a travel even when it is not.

Name the instances where you see this happening.

I don't think I've necessarily seen more or less. I think some just look for it a little bit more. Everyone has tendencies, even officials. Some of them call more travels than others. With a lot more players doing moves like the euro-step and the hop-then steps, more travels are getting called on those. Let's face it, at real game speed, even if you get a decent look at it, some of these are hard to call.

Sticks11 wrote:I don't think I've necessarily seen more or less. I think some just look for it a little bit more. Everyone has tendencies, even officials. Some of them call more travels than others. With a lot more players doing moves like the euro-step and the hop-then steps, more travels are getting called on those. Let's face it, at real game speed, even if you get a decent look at it, some of these are hard to call.

Exactly. When a player catches a pass and simultaneously hops to reset his feet, how do you decide when possession occurs?

A lot of travels are called on "Pro-Hops" which most of the time are not travels. I see very few travels called on spin moves, and most of them are actually travels. The one that drives me crazy is when a player catches the ball, then hops to set their feet, then shoot. This is hardly ever called a travel and it is a travel every single time.

The Schwab wrote:A lot of travels are called on "Pro-Hops" which most of the time are not travels. I see very few travels called on spin moves, and most of them are actually travels. The one that drives me crazy is when a player catches the ball, then hops to set their feet, then shoot. This is hardly ever called a travel and it is a travel every single time.

Agree 100% on the ProHop and Euros

packers21 wrote:

The Schwab wrote:A lot of travels are called on "Pro-Hops" which most of the time are not travels. I see very few travels called on spin moves, and most of them are actually travels. The one that drives me crazy is when a player catches the ball, then hops to set their feet, then shoot. This is hardly ever called a travel and it is a travel every single time.

Agree 100% on the ProHop and Euros

I see refs calling the Eurostep a travel constantly. It's frustrating that refs call it a travel.

RedDirtFan wrote:Name the instances where you see this happening.

Probably have seen 15+ euro steps incorrectly whistled for traveling violations.

balla45 wrote:

RedDirtFan wrote:Name the instances where you see this happening.

Probably have seen 15+ euro steps incorrectly whistled for traveling violations.

No doubt.....so, its like a true walk isn't walking and a slick move is walking...

Sounds like a group of people that should put on the stripes and show us how it is done. It's easy to complain sitting in the stands. Everybody is better than the ref. Get out there and show us how it's done!!!

Please explain the Euro-step. I'm sure I've seen it but don't know it by that name.

Ok, so here's my soapbox. That James Harden video IS a travel, even if they call it a Euro step. I saw SVP say the other night on SportsCenter say the exact same thing about the Euro step, that it was traveling back in his day. I watched that video, Harden picks up the ball with his right foot on the ground and left foot in the air, steps to his left, steps back to his right, takes off from his right and shoots the layup. 3 steps is a travel, or should be in HS. A while back Lebron's "crab dribble" was debated and ultimately deemed not a travel, too. That doesn't mean HS kids should get away with it. The pros get away with a lot that is called a violation (in my opinion correctly) in high school. And I'm not saying anyone is ruining the game, but just because it's not called a travel in the NBA doesn't mean it isn't a travel.

Stepping down from the soapbox onto a shorter cereal box; I completely agree with Schwab about the catch (flat footed)-hop-shoot scenario. It should be a travel every time and is rarely called. The other thing that gets to me is dribbling in general. Any time a players hand goes past vertical and under the ball (or even the bottom half of the ball), that is a travel. Most of the time the refs let it go, unless it happens to aid the player in a move to the basket, then I've seen it called about 50-50. For kids to play correctly, they must be penalized when it counts.

Rant over.

lovwatchingsports wrote:Sounds like a group of people that should put on the stripes and show us how it is done. It's easy to complain sitting in the stands. Everybody is better than the ref. Get out there and show us how it's done!!!

What is sounds like a bunch of people discussing traveling calls. Which, coincidentally is what the topic of the thread is. What did you think you were going to see when you clicked on the link? For the most part, no one is saying they're better than any official. They're saying what they have seen called and not called.

Like I mentioned before, some of them are just really tough to call in real time, either way. The hardest part is one sees it this way, and the other sees it that way. From night to night, I mean. So, it's kind of subjective, not near as much as the block/charge call, but there's consistency issues.

lovwatchingsports wrote:Sounds like a group of people that should put on the stripes and show us how it is done. It's easy to complain sitting in the stands. Everybody is better than the ref. Get out there and show us how it's done!!!

I was not complaining. I was stating my observations. I am actually friends with several crews in the area as I am at most games that occur in my community. I would get in to officiating as it is fun. I was advised not to as there would be a huge conflict of interest if I were officiating one of the players who plays in my program.

sportsfan25 wrote:Ok, so here's my soapbox. That James Harden video IS a travel, even if they call it a Euro step. I saw SVP say the other night on SportsCenter say the exact same thing about the Euro step, that it was traveling back in his day. I watched that video, Harden picks up the ball with his right foot on the ground and left foot in the air, steps to his left, steps back to his right, takes off from his right and shoots the layup. 3 steps is a travel, or should be in HS. A while back Lebron's "crab dribble" was debated and ultimately deemed not a travel, too. That doesn't mean HS kids should get away with it. The pros get away with a lot that is called a violation (in my opinion correctly) in high school. And I'm not saying anyone is ruining the game, but just because it's not called a travel in the NBA doesn't mean it isn't a travel.

Stepping down from the soapbox onto a shorter cereal box; I completely agree with Schwab about the catch (flat footed)-hop-shoot scenario. It should be a travel every time and is rarely called. The other thing that gets to me is dribbling in general. Any time a players hand goes past vertical and under the ball (or even the bottom half of the ball), that is a travel. Most of the time the refs let it go, unless it happens to aid the player in a move to the basket, then I've seen it called about 50-50. For kids to play correctly, they must be penalized when it counts.

Rant over.

What I put in red is not a travel Step to your left, then to you right, then shoot. That sounds like a generic lay up, does it not?

"What I put in red is not a travel Step to your left, then to you right, then shoot. That sounds like a generic lay up, does it not?"

Like the old Patrick Ewing 4-step. He could move with the ball from either sideline, without dribbling, and never draw a travel call.

balla45, you are 100% correct. That is what drives me nuts. Sportsfan25, along with many don't know what they are talking about regarding rules. Without even looking at the clip, just going off what Sportsfan25 wrote, it clearly isn't a travel. Yet he thinks what he describes is 3 steps. No, it isn't! Think of it this way. Picking up the ball with one foot down and the other in the air. Are you allowed to put the foot you have in the air down? Of coarse you are. May you use that foot you just put down as a pivot? Yes! Can you pivot on your pivot foot? YES! After pivoting, may you jump off you non pivoting foot? YES!!!

If it looks "different", something isn't correct and it must be a violation. Everyone has been to a game and there is a ref that doesn't think it is allowed to fake a shot or pass and then drive. No question there are times when a player will take a false step back with their push off foot, and that is a travel, but very often if you look at the play on film, there was never a violation. I would love to rant on about this, but what's the point?

Question...is the step through a travel now-a-days because EVERYONE calls for it on that move.

Good referees don't. But, there aren't many good refs.

Jump stops are unfortunately called travels quite often as well.

sportsfan25 wrote:Ok, so here's my soapbox. That James Harden video IS a travel, even if they call it a Euro step. I saw SVP say the other night on SportsCenter say the exact same thing about the Euro step, that it was traveling back in his day. I watched that video, Harden picks up the ball with his right foot on the ground and left foot in the air, steps to his left, steps back to his right, takes off from his right and shoots the layup. 3 steps is a travel, or should be in HS. A while back Lebron's "crab dribble" was debated and ultimately deemed not a travel, too. That doesn't mean HS kids should get away with it. The pros get away with a lot that is called a violation (in my opinion correctly) in high school. And I'm not saying anyone is ruining the game, but just because it's not called a travel in the NBA doesn't mean it isn't a travel.

Stepping down from the soapbox onto a shorter cereal box; I completely agree with Schwab about the catch (flat footed)-hop-shoot scenario. It should be a travel every time and is rarely called. The other thing that gets to me is dribbling in general. Any time a players hand goes past vertical and under the ball (or even the bottom half of the ball), that is a travel. Most of the time the refs let it go, unless it happens to aid the player in a move to the basket, then I've seen it called about 50-50. For kids to play correctly, they must be penalized when it counts.

Rant over.

How exactly can a player travel while dribbling the basketball? You must mean that they carry the ball (I'm not sure what the technical term is), which is a different violation altogether, is it not?

As to the person who stated that most spin moves are travels, I disagree. How is an official supposed to decide that the player has picked up his or her dribble unless they actively grasp the ball with both hands, establish a pivot foot, and then leave it? I mean, there are those rare cases where players can pick up their dribble with one hand, but we don't see that a lot.

Same thing with this supposed pro-hop, as people have been calling it. If the player leaves his or her feet before possessing the ball, how can it be a travel? And in many cases, how can an official know for sure?

They know what a travel is. What basketball has become has simply added so many bang-bang scenarios that make it hard for them to know for sure from 5-10 feet away, let alone us from 30 to 50.